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Dee Ford signed as a D-Lineman/LEO,,(so where would/could Bosa go ??)

I'm seeing Ford as our starting LEO/Elephant End, and a guy like Jaylon Furgeson of LA Tech backing him up. As far as our 1st. rounder I'm seeing either Quinnen or Allen.. I don't see it any other way considering the parameters, players, $$$$, roles, and intent (with Ford signing).. I'm not being argumentative or facetious at all, and I value ALL of you guys opinions (I love the interactions, our board is "lively" again). But, I'm really at a quandary right now.
  • kem99
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  • Posts: 887
Don't you want two good Edge pass rushers? One coming from both sides? The Broncos have Miller and Chubb. The Seahawks had at diffreent points a combo of Avril, Bennett and Clark. You're going to be in nickel or dime at least 2/3 of the time and from what we've heard the 49ers are going to more of a Wide 9 approach and wanting their Edge and interior linemen to get up field to get to the QB and then adjust if its a running play. That sounds like a team wanting two edge rushers and not worrying too much about who is the "Big End" and who is the LEO.

If you too caught up in assigning positions, then who do you take? Josh Allen? Nope. He would play SAM which is taken off the field most of the time for nickel/dime. On passing downs, he would go to one edge with Ford on the other, just as you would do with Bosa. Q. Williams? Well, there's a whole other issue about whether he's redundant or not with what they have. Burns? He's more of an Edge like Ford and you'd have the same problem. There really isn't a CB or Safety you'd want to take at #2. I don't think you could justify going offense with Metcalf at #2 either. Ultimately, the 49ers need to take the best player. Most believe the top 2 are Bosa and Williams. If the Cardinals pick one, the 49ers pick the other. If both are there at #2, the 49ers get their pick unless a very attractive trade down presents itself. They shouldn't over think it.
We are never anywhere near the cap I could care less about the money,just get as many good football players as you can.
You could make the same argument about QWill and Buck. Bosa and Quinnen look like studs definitely the 2 best players in this draft .
Don't over think it Lynch .
It's likely many gms have never been as high on bosa as the media suggests. Great situational rusher in a rotation but the unarguable fact is he is yet to showcase he that he can handle the rigors of a full season in 3down role. First chance to do so didn't turn out so well. Won't be shocked if he slides out of top 5.

Allen is the absolute perfect fit after recent signings. He can disguise as a Sam/Leo be effective in any role, and has the ability to cover. really challenging for offenses to know whats coming. And he has proven he can carry a defense rather than flash star potential in a rotational role.

It's allen unless someone offers a stack for the #2, —only 2 options.
Originally posted by philosoraptor:
You focus far too much on base defense, something we only play in 28% of the time. But, You can play bosa at big end, he's a great run defender.

The rams played in three receiver sets over 90% of the time, and the cardinals are going to a spread offense. The nickel is our main defense. Bosa and ford can both play together in the nickel quite easily. Think about how players effect the pass game in our nickel defense not base defense.

This, great post that should practically close the thread.

We could easily have Ford play SAM and Bosa at end, he wouldn't even have to play Big end can let him play 7 tech outside the RT. The Chargers do this a lot to accommodate Joey & Ingram.
  • kem99
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 887
Originally posted by bopicksix:
It's likely many gms have never been as high on bosa as the media suggests. Great situational rusher in a rotation but the unarguable fact is he is yet to showcase he that he can handle the rigors of a full season in 3down role. First chance to do so didn't turn out so well. Won't be shocked if he slides out of top 5.

Allen is the absolute perfect fit after recent signings. He can disguise as a Sam/Leo be effective in any role, and has the ability to cover. really challenging for offenses to know whats coming. And he has proven he can carry a defense rather than flash star potential in a rotational role.

It's allen unless someone offers a stack for the #2, —only 2 options.

So....Allen is the "absolute perfect fit" because he can disguise as the SAM about 1/3 of the time that base is on the field????

The other 2/3 of the time, he's going to be on the left or right edge rushing the QB, as would Bosa. Most of Allen's rushes came from a 3-4 as a stand up LB. Unless he's playing LEO, which Ford is likely playing, he would most often have to rush from the DL and, perhaps, have his hand in the dirt, which might not be the best fit. It's complicated if you're going to get caught up in the base D positions.
Originally posted by kem99:
So....Allen is the "absolute perfect fit" because he can disguise as the SAM about 1/3 of the time that base is on the field????

The other 2/3 of the time, he's going to be on the left or right edge rushing the QB, as would Bosa. Most of Allen's rushes came from a 3-4 as a stand up LB. Unless he's playing LEO, which Ford is likely playing, he would most often have to rush from the DL and, perhaps, have his hand in the dirt, which might not be the best fit. It's complicated if you're going to get caught up in the base D positions.

Signing Ford doesn't change going after Bosa at all IMO. Like you said we're in sub probably 65+% of the time.
[ Edited by NYniner85 on Mar 14, 2019 at 12:47 PM ]
I thought all along that Ford had to be the Leo.

Bosa is pretty stout against the run, so he could be the LDE. He is NOT a Sam.

Will the Niners draft Bosa to play the LDE? Possibly. It also might mean the team has another plan in the works. I would say picking up Ford lessens the chance the team selects Burns, Allen, or any of the other edge players. They would be placed as a Sam, and that doesn't seem to make sense. The premium at this pick is guys rushing the QB, not playing run support or dropping into coverage.

Once again, the Niners' problem now is their secondary, which is a hot mess. They better start working on this ASAP
Thomas/Jones/Buckner/Bosa
Ford/Warner/Alexander

Sign me up for that in base with Thomas shifting inside and Bosa and Ford on the edge in sub packages.

We also have the flexibility to trade back and get whoever falls between Bosa, Williams, and Allen or pick Sweat at 6 if the Giants want to trade up for a QB. If we land Williams or Allen, Ford can play LEO. If we land Bosa or Sweat, Ford can play SAM.
Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
Originally posted by philosoraptor:
You focus far too much on base defense, something we only play in 28% of the time. But, You can play bosa at big end, he's a great run defender.

The rams played in three receiver sets over 90% of the time, and the cardinals are going to a spread offense. The nickel is our main defense. Bosa and ford can both play together in the nickel quite easily. Think about how players effect the pass game in our nickel defense not base defense.

This, great post that should practically close the thread.

We could easily have Ford play SAM and Bosa at end, he wouldn't even have to play Big end can let him play 7 tech outside the RT. The Chargers do this a lot to accommodate Joey & Ingram.


Man I like you guys who know this s**t. Appreciate the info.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I thought all along that Ford had to be the Leo.

Bosa is pretty stout against the run, so he could be the LDE. He is NOT a Sam.

Will the Niners draft Bosa to play the LDE? Possibly. It also might mean the team has another plan in the works. I would say picking up Ford lessens the chance the team selects Burns, Allen, or any of the other edge players. They would be placed as a Sam, and that doesn't seem to make sense. The premium at this pick is guys rushing the QB, not playing run support or dropping into coverage.

Once again, the Niners' problem now is their secondary, which is a hot mess. They better start working on this ASAP

This. Maybe a trade back to 6 and pick ing up the 17th from the giants. Take burns, and adderly/williams, then taken a receiver at 36. That would be solid.
Originally posted by bopicksix:
It's likely many gms have never been as high on bosa as the media suggests. Great situational rusher in a rotation but the unarguable fact is he is yet to showcase he that he can handle the rigors of a full season in 3down role. First chance to do so didn't turn out so well. Won't be shocked if he slides out of top 5.

Allen is the absolute perfect fit after recent signings. He can disguise as a Sam/Leo be effective in any role, and has the ability to cover. really challenging for offenses to know whats coming. And he has proven he can carry a defense rather than flash star potential in a rotational role.

It's allen unless someone offers a stack for the #2, —only 2 options.

There's nothing wrong with how you've laid out your opinion, and Allen can certainly fill this role you've suggested, there's just no need to claim it's the only option.

There are plenty of other valid options and plenty of people who think Bosa and QW are better prospects.
Originally posted by kem99:
So....Allen is the "absolute perfect fit" because he can disguise as the SAM about 1/3 of the time that base is on the field????

The other 2/3 of the time, he's going to be on the left or right edge rushing the QB, as would Bosa. Most of Allen's rushes came from a 3-4 as a stand up LB. Unless he's playing LEO, which Ford is likely playing, he would most often have to rush from the DL and, perhaps, have his hand in the dirt, which might not be the best fit. It's complicated if you're going to get caught up in the base D positions.

Agreed the base D positions are antiquated concepts. Versatility from the de/olb positions is the future.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I thought all along that Ford had to be the Leo.

Bosa is pretty stout against the run, so he could be the LDE. He is NOT a Sam.

Will the Niners draft Bosa to play the LDE? Possibly. It also might mean the team has another plan in the works. I would say picking up Ford lessens the chance the team selects Burns, Allen, or any of the other edge players. They would be placed as a Sam, and that doesn't seem to make sense. The premium at this pick is guys rushing the QB, not playing run support or dropping into coverage.

Once again, the Niners' problem now is their secondary, which is a hot mess. They better start working on this ASAP


Agree. But in defense of drafting Bosa and further improving pass rush, isn't it better to say (simplifying obviously): "hey just cover this guy for 2 seconds til our pass rush gets home versus hey cover this guy for 4-5 seconds and hopefully we can get to the QB. I know it's an oversimplification.
Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
There's nothing wrong with how you've laid out your opinion, and Allen can certainly fill this role you've suggested, there's just no need to claim it's the only option.

There are plenty of other valid options and plenty of people who think Bosa and QW are better prospects.

I would put qw at the top of board, and some have add good ideas as to how he and buck could work together. I see it as redundant resources that could be directed elsewhere. Would love to send buck packing for qw but that's unlikely, I struggle to see how you make an investment as big as #2 on redundancy.
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