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this is why we took Ford, and now may NOT get Bosa

Originally posted by JerseyShoreNiners:
I see two logical potential trade down options:

Using the NFL trade value chart, we could make either of the following trades and still come away with a stud pass rusher and fill a hole at either WR/FS/CB with mid-1st round value players.

Trade 1: Oakland receives the 2nd overall pick (2600 points) and gives us the 4th overall (1800), 24th overall (740) and the 106th overall (82) to move up to target either Mack's replacement or Carr's successor potentially.

Trade 2: NYG receives the 2nd overall picks (2600 points) and gives us the 6th overall (1600), 17th overall (950) and the 108th overall (78) to move up to secure their QB of the future. We could probably leverage a little more out of them here given that QBs net a premium haul, but for the sake of simplicity, lets keep the deal proposal in line with the trade value chart.

In either deal, we're still in position to take an edge rusher to complement Ford with whichever edge player we deem most suitable for our scheme(Burns, Allen, Sweat or Ferrell) and then target our secondary or WR with the other mid-1st round pick we picked up in the deal.

So my question is would we be better served with Bosa or QW at 2, or a combination of a player like Allen and an ideal scheme-fit FS prospect like Nasir Adderley with the other 1st?

Just some thoughts...the Ford trade opened up some fun options for us IMO.

Yes, that could be a transformational draft with either of those two trades. If Az drafts either Bosa or Q it would open the door to a soak-em trade. If we take the Oakland deal (unlikely, in view of the relationship) we would almost certainly end up still taking Bosa, Q or Allen.
Wow!
Originally posted by littleken:
Originally posted by Waterbear:
Originally posted by littleken:
What would Buckner think if we draft Quinnen Williams. Who is play 3T and who is nose tackle? Both players are best fit to play 3T, so forcing one to play out of position is not good. If the team is going to put Buckner on trade block, or have no plan to sign him to a long term deal, then draft Williams make some sense. But what does that do to the locker room. Buckner did everything right. He is a leader. He never got into trouble. He work hard. He produced on the field. He stayed healthy. Lynch and Shanahan are always about sending the right message to the locker room. So why wouldn't the team want to give Buckner a long term deal?

QW is a perfect fit at 1 tech. Not sure why everyone keeps having this idea that he can't play NT.

QW is perfect fit tor 3T, not 1T, period. He can play NT, just not the best fit.

If you listed everyone in the NFL to play 1tech in a 4-3 the top two would be Grady Jarrett and Quinnen Williams.

QW would also play a lot of 3 tech in our scheme on pass rush downs. I don't understand why this is so hard to get.
Originally posted by Wolf_Packer_53:
Originally posted by Waterbear:
Originally posted by littleken:
What would Buckner think if we draft Quinnen Williams. Who is play 3T and who is nose tackle? Both players are best fit to play 3T, so forcing one to play out of position is not good. If the team is going to put Buckner on trade block, or have no plan to sign him to a long term deal, then draft Williams make some sense. But what does that do to the locker room. Buckner did everything right. He is a leader. He never got into trouble. He work hard. He produced on the field. He stayed healthy. Lynch and Shanahan are always about sending the right message to the locker room. So why wouldn't the team want to give Buckner a long term deal?

QW is a perfect fit at 1 tech. Not sure why everyone keeps having this idea that he can't play NT.

DJ Jones is also a perfect fit at 1 tech. And Armstead slides down to DT on pass rushing downs anyways.

As it stands right meow, we have one legit edge rusher and a plethora of interior guys. Get Bosa, dont be stupid.

We don't have anyone like QW. If you haven't noticed... QW does rush the passer... unlike the rest of our interior players.

I'm not saying we should take him over Bosa. But clearly now he should be at least the second player on their board.
Originally posted by Waterbear:
Originally posted by littleken:
Originally posted by Waterbear:
Originally posted by littleken:
What would Buckner think if we draft Quinnen Williams. Who is play 3T and who is nose tackle? Both players are best fit to play 3T, so forcing one to play out of position is not good. If the team is going to put Buckner on trade block, or have no plan to sign him to a long term deal, then draft Williams make some sense. But what does that do to the locker room. Buckner did everything right. He is a leader. He never got into trouble. He work hard. He produced on the field. He stayed healthy. Lynch and Shanahan are always about sending the right message to the locker room. So why wouldn't the team want to give Buckner a long term deal?

QW is a perfect fit at 1 tech. Not sure why everyone keeps having this idea that he can't play NT.

QW is perfect fit tor 3T, not 1T, period. He can play NT, just not the best fit.

If you listed everyone in the NFL to play 1tech in a 4-3 the top two would be Grady Jarrett and Quinnen Williams.

QW would also play a lot of 3 tech in our scheme on pass rush downs. I don't understand why this is so hard to get.

This is all subjective. Let's agree to disagree.
trade #2 to oakland for #4,#24 and #106, they get murray
Afterwards trade #4 for #6 and #17 because the giants get nervous to miss Haskins

end with #6 #17 #24 #36
Originally posted by littleken:
Originally posted by Waterbear:
Originally posted by littleken:
Originally posted by Waterbear:
Originally posted by littleken:
What would Buckner think if we draft Quinnen Williams. Who is play 3T and who is nose tackle? Both players are best fit to play 3T, so forcing one to play out of position is not good. If the team is going to put Buckner on trade block, or have no plan to sign him to a long term deal, then draft Williams make some sense. But what does that do to the locker room. Buckner did everything right. He is a leader. He never got into trouble. He work hard. He produced on the field. He stayed healthy. Lynch and Shanahan are always about sending the right message to the locker room. So why wouldn't the team want to give Buckner a long term deal?

QW is a perfect fit at 1 tech. Not sure why everyone keeps having this idea that he can't play NT.

QW is perfect fit tor 3T, not 1T, period. He can play NT, just not the best fit.

If you listed everyone in the NFL to play 1tech in a 4-3 the top two would be Grady Jarrett and Quinnen Williams.

QW would also play a lot of 3 tech in our scheme on pass rush downs. I don't understand why this is so hard to get.

This is all subjective. Let's agree to disagree.

Lol okay but it's not. QW played 1 tech in a 3-4 at Alabama. He can literally do everything you want a 1 tech to be able to do as well as everything you want a 3 tech to do. He has all the traits to play both... which he would in this scheme.

I played NT in high school and college so this kind of right up my alley honestly.
This is a good problem to have. Although I am pro QW, the QW pick only works for me if Bosa is gone. Even with Ford, we only have ONE edge rusher on the roster. Let's not kid ourselves here. We haven't arrived at that position yet. If Boss is available, take Bosa. Not too many teams can bring the heat from both sides.

I'm not loyal to any of the other Dlineman on this roster. Draft Bosa, trade one of them, and then we should have a solid group of backups.
Originally posted by NYniner85:
No we think AZ is drafting Murray and AZ does have to edge rushers in jones and Suggs.

Some people think they are drafting Murray. I think they still prefer to trade down.
Originally posted by littleken:
Originally posted by Waterbear:
Originally posted by littleken:
Originally posted by Waterbear:
Originally posted by littleken:
What would Buckner think if we draft Quinnen Williams. Who is play 3T and who is nose tackle? Both players are best fit to play 3T, so forcing one to play out of position is not good. If the team is going to put Buckner on trade block, or have no plan to sign him to a long term deal, then draft Williams make some sense. But what does that do to the locker room. Buckner did everything right. He is a leader. He never got into trouble. He work hard. He produced on the field. He stayed healthy. Lynch and Shanahan are always about sending the right message to the locker room. So why wouldn't the team want to give Buckner a long term deal?

QW is a perfect fit at 1 tech. Not sure why everyone keeps having this idea that he can't play NT.

QW is perfect fit tor 3T, not 1T, period. He can play NT, just not the best fit.

If you listed everyone in the NFL to play 1tech in a 4-3 the top two would be Grady Jarrett and Quinnen Williams.

QW would also play a lot of 3 tech in our scheme on pass rush downs. I don't understand why this is so hard to get.

This is all subjective. Let's agree to disagree.

He played NT in a 2 gap scheme at Bama, its pretty obvious he could handle NT in this scheme where the average NT is three hundred to three hundred ten pounds. He'd only be doing that thirty percent of the time anyways.
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Originally posted by JerseyShoreNiners:
I see two logical potential trade down options:

Using the NFL trade value chart, we could make either of the following trades and still come away with a stud pass rusher and fill a hole at either WR/FS/CB with mid-1st round value players.

Trade 1: Oakland receives the 2nd overall pick (2600 points) and gives us the 4th overall (1800), 24th overall (740) and the 106th overall (82) to move up to target either Mack's replacement or Carr's successor potentially.

Trade 2: NYG receives the 2nd overall picks (2600 points) and gives us the 6th overall (1600), 17th overall (950) and the 108th overall (78) to move up to secure their QB of the future. We could probably leverage a little more out of them here given that QBs net a premium haul, but for the sake of simplicity, lets keep the deal proposal in line with the trade value chart.

In either deal, we're still in position to take an edge rusher to complement Ford with whichever edge player we deem most suitable for our scheme(Burns, Allen, Sweat or Ferrell) and then target our secondary or WR with the other mid-1st round pick we picked up in the deal.

So my question is would we be better served with Bosa or QW at 2, or a combination of a player like Allen and an ideal scheme-fit FS prospect like Nasir Adderley with the other 1st?

Just some thoughts...the Ford trade opened up some fun options for us IMO.

Jets set a precedent by trading 3 second round picks for #6 last year. The value of the 2 second round picks they sent in last year's class equaled the value 17th overall picks.

Using that precedent, it would take 17 and a 2020 2nd round pick for the NYG to move up to 2 from 6.

Originally posted by Waterbear:
Originally posted by Wolf_Packer_53:
Originally posted by Waterbear:
Originally posted by littleken:
What would Buckner think if we draft Quinnen Williams. Who is play 3T and who is nose tackle? Both players are best fit to play 3T, so forcing one to play out of position is not good. If the team is going to put Buckner on trade block, or have no plan to sign him to a long term deal, then draft Williams make some sense. But what does that do to the locker room. Buckner did everything right. He is a leader. He never got into trouble. He work hard. He produced on the field. He stayed healthy. Lynch and Shanahan are always about sending the right message to the locker room. So why wouldn't the team want to give Buckner a long term deal?

QW is a perfect fit at 1 tech. Not sure why everyone keeps having this idea that he can't play NT.

DJ Jones is also a perfect fit at 1 tech. And Armstead slides down to DT on pass rushing downs anyways.

As it stands right meow, we have one legit edge rusher and a plethora of interior guys. Get Bosa, dont be stupid.

We don't have anyone like QW. If you haven't noticed... QW does rush the passer... unlike the rest of our interior players.

I'm not saying we should take him over Bosa. But clearly now he should be at least the second player on their board.

Did you forget who lead the team in sacks last year? Hint, he plays inside and is probably one reason we aren't signing every big name free agent out there. Gotta pay Buckner VERY soon.
Originally posted by Rathof44:
Much harder to find elite edge than DT. Plus don't we have like 7 DT on the roster. Bosa it is.
Pretty much how I feel. Look at what happened with free agency this year. Look at how many edge rushers were franchised. Edge rushers are extremely hard to find. Yeah, we got Dee Ford, but who cares? Stack up on pass rushers.

Bosa is being a little overhyped (he's not a generational prospect like Garrett, but he is a blue chip prospect), but so is Williams. Williams is a really strong prospect, not a generational talent imo. I think people are getting their vision a little clouded by Aaron Donald. Like, "hey, Aaron Donald is this beast DT that is this transcendent force. I would love to have a Donald on our team, let's get QW so we have one of our own." QW is not Donald and he's not going to have that impact.

Anyway, they're both great prospects. I just think edge is harder to find. A defense can be successful without a dominant interior force but it's very hard to be dominant without an edge rusher. I want as much as many edge rushers as we can get. There's no such thing as having too many.
Originally posted by Wolf_Packer_53:
Did you forget who lead the team in sacks last year? Hint, he plays inside and is probably one reason we aren't signing every big name free agent out there. Gotta pay Buckner VERY soon.

Buckner is very good but is overrated by 49er fans. Again very good, but not quite pro bowl good, and not even on the same planet as Donald. It won't happen but I wouldn't mind taking qw and trading Buckner now at peak value.
One of the things about this draft is it's chock full of pass rushers...I don't disagree with having two good ones. I just believe QW is too good to pass up. The reason Aldon Smith got so many sacks was largely because of Justin Smith. Now, the Niners may get the opportunity to add Williams to shore up the middle of the defense and play the 3T on 3rd down. Buckner and Williams can wreak havoc collapsing the pocket so Ford and whomever else they acquire can have lanes to get to the QB. I don't see D.J. Jones having the upside QW has...he can be a nice rotational player, but Williams is the stud Saleh needs to upgrade the DL to the point it will be dominant again. That's worth doing for now and the future.
Originally posted by 49ersFan_vienna:
trade #2 to oakland for #4,#24 and #106, they get murray
Afterwards trade #4 for #6 and #17 because the giants get nervous to miss Haskins

end with #6 #17 #24 #36

that's what I was saying last week. Would be SEX
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