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General 2019 NFL Draft Discussion

Originally posted by okdkid:
I just don't know how the Cardinals don't trade down. Their roster is abysmal. And assuming they're sticking with Rosen -- they BADLY need offensive playmakers and offensive linemen. They can trade back to 4,5,6 or 7 and still get DL help if they truly want it -- BUT pick up huge assets to sprinkle top talent around their already depleted roster.

Look at what Indy did. They changed the fortunes of their entire franchise with a small trade back -- fortifying their OL. Neither Bosa, nor QW can offer that.
Because trading back ≠ smart thing.

Sure, it worked out for the Colts, but there have been other examples where it backfired. More times than it worked.

Also, for a guy(Keim) whose track record in the 1st round outside of the top 5, I doubt he'll trade back because it's pretty awful.

And although there roster is definitely bad, I don't think it's super atrocious. I think coaching made it worse than it looked. I mean, they did sweep us at their lowest...
Working on the big guys in the trench this week and really enjoying a big helping of Ed Oliver. Probably going to measure at 6'1", 285, but this is a damn good football player.

Not sure if he will post a superb forty time, but I expect a blazing 10 yard split. He is a rocket off the ball and holdus up well against multiple blockers. I love how he runs down the field,
Across the field and more. No prima Donna in him.

Number four on my board.

Love the footwork of. Jonah Williams. If you compare him pulling to a Cody Ford, there is such a striking difference. Williams is fast and smooth out of his sets and does a really good job in the second level. I expect a really great shuttle time which is the best determinant of future success for OL, especially guards where I think he will land..I expect short arm measurement at the combine
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Working on the big guys in the trench this week and really enjoying a big helping of Ed Oliver. Probably going to measure at 6'1", 285, but this is a damn good football player.

Not sure if he will post a superb forty time, but I expect a blazing 10 yard split. He is a rocket off the ball and holdus up well against multiple blockers. I love how he runs down the field,
Across the field and more. No prima Donna in him.

Number four on my board.

Love the footwork of. Jonah Williams. If you compare him pulling to a Cody Ford, there is such a striking difference. Williams is fast and smooth out of his sets and does a really good job in the second level. I expect a really great shuttle time which is the best determinant of future success for OL, especially guards where I think he will land..I expect short arm measurement at the combine

When is your big board coming out?
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Working on the big guys in the trench this week and really enjoying a big helping of Ed Oliver. Probably going to measure at 6'1", 285, but this is a damn good football player.

Not sure if he will post a superb forty time, but I expect a blazing 10 yard split. He is a rocket off the ball and holdus up well against multiple blockers. I love how he runs down the field,
Across the field and more. No prima Donna in him.

Number four on my board.

Love the footwork of. Jonah Williams. If you compare him pulling to a Cody Ford, there is such a striking difference. Williams is fast and smooth out of his sets and does a really good job in the second level. I expect a really great shuttle time which is the best determinant of future success for OL, especially guards where I think he will land..I expect short arm measurement at the combine

Nice MD, I'm a big fan of Jonah as well, I think he can stick at tackle though. Are you concerned at all about his anchor, or is it just length?
[ Edited by 49erBigMac on Feb 17, 2019 at 8:47 AM ]
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Working on the big guys in the trench this week and really enjoying a big helping of Ed Oliver. Probably going to measure at 6'1", 285, but this is a damn good football player.

Not sure if he will post a superb forty time, but I expect a blazing 10 yard split. He is a rocket off the ball and holdus up well against multiple blockers. I love how he runs down the field,
Across the field and more. No prima Donna in him.

Number four on my board.

Love the footwork of. Jonah Williams. If you compare him pulling to a Cody Ford, there is such a striking difference. Williams is fast and smooth out of his sets and does a really good job in the second level. I expect a really great shuttle time which is the best determinant of future success for OL, especially guards where I think he will land..I expect short arm measurement at the combine

Nice. I know many, yourself included, project Williams at G at tbe next level, but do you see him as an elite G prospect?
Originally posted by Mertonschickendance:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Working on the big guys in the trench this week and really enjoying a big helping of Ed Oliver. Probably going to measure at 6'1", 285, but this is a damn good football player.

Not sure if he will post a superb forty time, but I expect a blazing 10 yard split. He is a rocket off the ball and holdus up well against multiple blockers. I love how he runs down the field,
Across the field and more. No prima Donna in him.

Number four on my board.

Love the footwork of. Jonah Williams. If you compare him pulling to a Cody Ford, there is such a striking difference. Williams is fast and smooth out of his sets and does a really good job in the second level. I expect a really great shuttle time which is the best determinant of future success for OL, especially guards where I think he will land..I expect short arm measurement at the combine

When is your big board coming out?

Probably after the combine. Slowly piecing together little by little. Combine will affect a lot of these juniors who could take a major leap forward or major step backwards. Doing more player analysis right now.
Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Working on the big guys in the trench this week and really enjoying a big helping of Ed Oliver. Probably going to measure at 6'1", 285, but this is a damn good football player.

Not sure if he will post a superb forty time, but I expect a blazing 10 yard split. He is a rocket off the ball and holdus up well against multiple blockers. I love how he runs down the field,
Across the field and more. No prima Donna in him.

Number four on my board.

Love the footwork of. Jonah Williams. If you compare him pulling to a Cody Ford, there is such a striking difference. Williams is fast and smooth out of his sets and does a really good job in the second level. I expect a really great shuttle time which is the best determinant of future success for OL, especially guards where I think he will land..I expect short arm measurement at the combine

Nice MD, I'm a big fan of Jonah as well, I think he can stick at tackle though. Are you concerned at all about his anchor, or is it just length?

Length against quick-twitch, longer guys. Competed against Ferrell, but showed some major cracks in the process. I thought it was his worst game, but a preview of what he would face in the NFL as a LT. Lost too many battles in my view. Reminded me a bit of McGlinchey last year against Georgia, where he dominated most of the year but struggled in that game. Difference is that McGlinchey is much longer than Williams, who I think will measure at about 33"
Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Working on the big guys in the trench this week and really enjoying a big helping of Ed Oliver. Probably going to measure at 6'1", 285, but this is a damn good football player.

Not sure if he will post a superb forty time, but I expect a blazing 10 yard split. He is a rocket off the ball and holdus up well against multiple blockers. I love how he runs down the field,
Across the field and more. No prima Donna in him.

Number four on my board.

Love the footwork of. Jonah Williams. If you compare him pulling to a Cody Ford, there is such a striking difference. Williams is fast and smooth out of his sets and does a really good job in the second level. I expect a really great shuttle time which is the best determinant of future success for OL, especially guards where I think he will land..I expect short arm measurement at the combine

Nice. I know many, yourself included, project Williams at G at tbe next level, but do you see him as an elite G prospect?

He's really good. I love the way he moves on the field. Would be G1 for me. Excellent football intelligence and excellent feet.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Working on the big guys in the trench this week and really enjoying a big helping of Ed Oliver. Probably going to measure at 6'1", 285, but this is a damn good football player.

Not sure if he will post a superb forty time, but I expect a blazing 10 yard split. He is a rocket off the ball and holdus up well against multiple blockers. I love how he runs down the field,
Across the field and more. No prima Donna in him.

Number four on my board.

Love the footwork of. Jonah Williams. If you compare him pulling to a Cody Ford, there is such a striking difference. Williams is fast and smooth out of his sets and does a really good job in the second level. I expect a really great shuttle time which is the best determinant of future success for OL, especially guards where I think he will land..I expect short arm measurement at the combine

Nice. I know many, yourself included, project Williams at G at tbe next level, but do you see him as an elite G prospect?

He's really good. I love the way he moves on the field. Would be G1 for me. Excellent football intelligence and excellent feet.

Thanks
Posting this in this thread as well as the Gary thread:

Finished my review of Gary's work in 2018. Watched almost every snap (I don't feel confident about analyzing any one player without seeing the vast majority of their snaps in a season...in Gary's case I only missed the Western Michigan game...so I saw 8 of the 9 games from 2018). I don't focus on splash wins or losses as the basis of my analysis (i will let someone else review highlight videos), but snap by snap wins. Does the player defeat his opponent consistently? Does the player make a strong impact on the game?
Here are some thoughts:
* Gary is a better run defender than pass rusher.
* Gary does a solid job of stacking blockers, and shedding them for tackles. He is not dynamic as a run defender who makes a lot of tackles for loss (6.5 for the season), but does hold up well against the run. Not a good idea to use a TE to run block against Gary. He will win too often.
* He possesses good, but not great, lateral skills for a player who is considered an elite athlete. Gary is more of an up the field mover (North and South) mover. Can he run to the sideline? Sure. But, he is a straight-line speed guy. That is his strength.
* Gary is MUCH better as a RDE than LDE. His productivity was strikingly different, win percentage much lower. I don't have a total # of snaps for each side, but I would venture to say that he was a RDE on 60% of snaps and 30% as a LDE, with about 10% inside.
* Gary comes off the ball quickly on passing downs. He is pretty fast off the snap. At the same time, there is very little bend to Gary. He is not a guy who runs the arc well.
*Gary's best attribute on passing downs is using burst and brute strength to push the OT backwards toward the QB. He doesn't do this enough. This is his top trait as a pass rusher.
* He has very limited secondary moves in pass rushing. If he get locked on, he is almost always done. Lacks a spin move. Really needs to add this to his game. Motor drops off quickly when initial move is stopped.
* Gary will have a splash play on a series and then have multiple series where he is really quiet. There is not a consistent domination of the opponent.
* I don't see the competitive fire that define many other top-tier athletes in this draft. Matched up against Isaiah Prince of OSU in a rivalry game, he was SO quiet. I expected more in a huge rivalry game.
My analysis is based on Gary's game tape. He is regarded as one of the freak athletes in this draft, and is primed to be a big winner at the combine as a world-class athlete. I just didn't see this translate to enough productivity on the field. It seems the push by many is to move him inside to DT where he can use his sudden, up the field movement and solid rush defense in the middle of the defense. He didn't take a lot of snaps there in 2018, but it may be his best option.
Fortunately, for Gary, someone is going to be enamored with the freaky physical traits he possesses, and he will be drafted far outside where I grade him. To me, as a DE, he is a mid-late second round grade, fringe top 50 player, based on productivity and wins. He is not going to be a bust, because there are parts of his game that are solid. But, this is not a top 10 player. Maybe he can take his game to a whole new level. But, that is a risky proposition for a team that is basing its analysis more on potential than tape. I wish nothing but the best for Gary in his future career.
P.S. Gary had the unfortunate landing spot in my analysis, directly after Ed Oliver, who is a flat-out stud monster who dominates games, and wins on a high percentage of snaps. I was primed to see the same level of dominance. But, Gary's play pales in comparison to Oliver.
[ Edited by MadDog49er on Feb 17, 2019 at 10:49 PM ]

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Posting this in this thread as well as the Gary thread:

* I don't see the competitive fire that define many other top-tier athletes in this draft.

Great analysis, 100% spot on he just doesn't seem to be passionate about the game... he seems much more passionate about becoming a business man.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Posting this in this thread as well as the Gary thread:

Finished my review of Gary's work in 2018. Watched almost every snap (I don't feel confident about analyzing any one player without seeing the vast majority of their snaps in a season...in Gary's case I only missed the Western Michigan game...so I saw 8 of the 9 games from 2018). I don't focus on splash wins or losses as the basis of my analysis (i will let someone else review highlight videos), but snap by snap wins. Does the player defeat his opponent consistently? Does the player make a strong impact on the game?
Here are some thoughts:
* Gary is a better run defender than pass rusher.
* Gary does a solid job of stacking blockers, and shedding them for tackles. He is not dynamic as a run defender who makes a lot of tackles for loss (6.5 for the season), but does hold up well against the run. Not a good idea to use a TE to run block against Gary. He will win too often.
* He possesses good, but not great, lateral skills for a player who is considered an elite athlete. Gary is more of an up the field mover (North and South) mover. Can he run to the sideline? Sure. But, he is a straight-line speed guy. That is his strength.
* Gary is MUCH better as a RDE than LDE. His productivity was strikingly different, win percentage much lower. I don't have a total # of snaps for each side, but I would venture to say that he was a RDE on 60% of snaps and 30% as a LDE, with about 10% inside.
* Gary comes off the ball quickly on passing downs. He is pretty fast off the snap. At the same time, there is very little bend to Gary. He is not a guy who runs the arc well.
*Gary's best attribute on passing downs is using burst and brute strength to push the OT backwards toward the QB. He doesn't do this enough. This is his top trait as a pass rusher.
* He has very limited secondary moves in pass rushing. If he get locked on, he is almost always done. Lacks a spin move. Really needs to add this to his game. Motor drops off quickly when initial move is stopped.
* Gary will have a splash play on a series and then have multiple series where he is really quiet. There is not a consistent domination of the opponent.
* I don't see the competitive fire that define many other top-tier athletes in this draft. Matched up against Isaiah Prince of OSU in a rivalry game, he was SO quiet. I expected more in a huge rivalry game.
My analysis is based on Gary's game tape. He is regarded as one of the freak athletes in this draft, and is primed to be a big winner at the combine as a world-class athlete. I just didn't see this translate to enough productivity on the field. It seems the push by many is to move him inside to DT where he can use his sudden, up the field movement and solid rush defense in the middle of the defense. He didn't take a lot of snaps there in 2018, but it may be his best option.
Fortunately, for Gary, someone is going to be enamored with the freaky physical traits he possesses, and he will be drafted far outside where I grade him. To me, as a DE, he is a mid-late second round grade, fringe top 50 player, based on productivity and wins. He is not going to be a bust, because there are parts of his game that are solid. But, this is not a top 10 player. Maybe he can take his game to a whole new level. But, that is a risky proposition for a team that is basing its analysis more on potential than tape. I wish nothing but the best for Gary in his future career.
P.S. Gary had the unfortunate landing spot in my analysis, directly after Ed Oliver, who is a flat-out stud monster who dominates games, and wins on a high percentage of snaps. I was primed to see the same level of dominance. But, Gary's play pales in comparison to Oliver.

You have just incurred the wrath of Wu and his tweets .
Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Posting this in this thread as well as the Gary thread:

Finished my review of Gary's work in 2018. Watched almost every snap (I don't feel confident about analyzing any one player without seeing the vast majority of their snaps in a season...in Gary's case I only missed the Western Michigan game...so I saw 8 of the 9 games from 2018). I don't focus on splash wins or losses as the basis of my analysis (i will let someone else review highlight videos), but snap by snap wins. Does the player defeat his opponent consistently? Does the player make a strong impact on the game?
Here are some thoughts:
* Gary is a better run defender than pass rusher.
* Gary does a solid job of stacking blockers, and shedding them for tackles. He is not dynamic as a run defender who makes a lot of tackles for loss (6.5 for the season), but does hold up well against the run. Not a good idea to use a TE to run block against Gary. He will win too often.
* He possesses good, but not great, lateral skills for a player who is considered an elite athlete. Gary is more of an up the field mover (North and South) mover. Can he run to the sideline? Sure. But, he is a straight-line speed guy. That is his strength.
* Gary is MUCH better as a RDE than LDE. His productivity was strikingly different, win percentage much lower. I don't have a total # of snaps for each side, but I would venture to say that he was a RDE on 60% of snaps and 30% as a LDE, with about 10% inside.
* Gary comes off the ball quickly on passing downs. He is pretty fast off the snap. At the same time, there is very little bend to Gary. He is not a guy who runs the arc well.
*Gary's best attribute on passing downs is using burst and brute strength to push the OT backwards toward the QB. He doesn't do this enough. This is his top trait as a pass rusher.
* He has very limited secondary moves in pass rushing. If he get locked on, he is almost always done. Lacks a spin move. Really needs to add this to his game. Motor drops off quickly when initial move is stopped.
* Gary will have a splash play on a series and then have multiple series where he is really quiet. There is not a consistent domination of the opponent.
* I don't see the competitive fire that define many other top-tier athletes in this draft. Matched up against Isaiah Prince of OSU in a rivalry game, he was SO quiet. I expected more in a huge rivalry game.
My analysis is based on Gary's game tape. He is regarded as one of the freak athletes in this draft, and is primed to be a big winner at the combine as a world-class athlete. I just didn't see this translate to enough productivity on the field. It seems the push by many is to move him inside to DT where he can use his sudden, up the field movement and solid rush defense in the middle of the defense. He didn't take a lot of snaps there in 2018, but it may be his best option.
Fortunately, for Gary, someone is going to be enamored with the freaky physical traits he possesses, and he will be drafted far outside where I grade him. To me, as a DE, he is a mid-late second round grade, fringe top 50 player, based on productivity and wins. He is not going to be a bust, because there are parts of his game that are solid. But, this is not a top 10 player. Maybe he can take his game to a whole new level. But, that is a risky proposition for a team that is basing its analysis more on potential than tape. I wish nothing but the best for Gary in his future career.
P.S. Gary had the unfortunate landing spot in my analysis, directly after Ed Oliver, who is a flat-out stud monster who dominates games, and wins on a high percentage of snaps. I was primed to see the same level of dominance. But, Gary's play pales in comparison to Oliver.

You have just incurred the wrath of Wu and his tweets .
I been watching some more tape on our potential draft pics and I still want Arizona to go potato and NOT get Bosa so we can get him. QWill isn't a bad consolation prize but I don't like picking him and have to play musical chairs with our D-Line. Allen I could see as having enormous potential vs relation to the pick but living up to it is a whole 'nother story.

TL ; DR Minus whale root for Arizona to trade down
Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Posting this in this thread as well as the Gary thread:

Finished my review of Gary's work in 2018. Watched almost every snap (I don't feel confident about analyzing any one player without seeing the vast majority of their snaps in a season...in Gary's case I only missed the Western Michigan game...so I saw 8 of the 9 games from 2018). I don't focus on splash wins or losses as the basis of my analysis (i will let someone else review highlight videos), but snap by snap wins. Does the player defeat his opponent consistently? Does the player make a strong impact on the game?
Here are some thoughts:
* Gary is a better run defender than pass rusher.
* Gary does a solid job of stacking blockers, and shedding them for tackles. He is not dynamic as a run defender who makes a lot of tackles for loss (6.5 for the season), but does hold up well against the run. Not a good idea to use a TE to run block against Gary. He will win too often.
* He possesses good, but not great, lateral skills for a player who is considered an elite athlete. Gary is more of an up the field mover (North and South) mover. Can he run to the sideline? Sure. But, he is a straight-line speed guy. That is his strength.
* Gary is MUCH better as a RDE than LDE. His productivity was strikingly different, win percentage much lower. I don't have a total # of snaps for each side, but I would venture to say that he was a RDE on 60% of snaps and 30% as a LDE, with about 10% inside.
* Gary comes off the ball quickly on passing downs. He is pretty fast off the snap. At the same time, there is very little bend to Gary. He is not a guy who runs the arc well.
*Gary's best attribute on passing downs is using burst and brute strength to push the OT backwards toward the QB. He doesn't do this enough. This is his top trait as a pass rusher.
* He has very limited secondary moves in pass rushing. If he get locked on, he is almost always done. Lacks a spin move. Really needs to add this to his game. Motor drops off quickly when initial move is stopped.
* Gary will have a splash play on a series and then have multiple series where he is really quiet. There is not a consistent domination of the opponent.
* I don't see the competitive fire that define many other top-tier athletes in this draft. Matched up against Isaiah Prince of OSU in a rivalry game, he was SO quiet. I expected more in a huge rivalry game.
My analysis is based on Gary's game tape. He is regarded as one of the freak athletes in this draft, and is primed to be a big winner at the combine as a world-class athlete. I just didn't see this translate to enough productivity on the field. It seems the push by many is to move him inside to DT where he can use his sudden, up the field movement and solid rush defense in the middle of the defense. He didn't take a lot of snaps there in 2018, but it may be his best option.
Fortunately, for Gary, someone is going to be enamored with the freaky physical traits he possesses, and he will be drafted far outside where I grade him. To me, as a DE, he is a mid-late second round grade, fringe top 50 player, based on productivity and wins. He is not going to be a bust, because there are parts of his game that are solid. But, this is not a top 10 player. Maybe he can take his game to a whole new level. But, that is a risky proposition for a team that is basing its analysis more on potential than tape. I wish nothing but the best for Gary in his future career.
P.S. Gary had the unfortunate landing spot in my analysis, directly after Ed Oliver, who is a flat-out stud monster who dominates games, and wins on a high percentage of snaps. I was primed to see the same level of dominance. But, Gary's play pales in comparison to Oliver.

You have just incurred the wrath of Wu and his tweets .

Yeah but he played for Jim Harbaugh so that automatically makes him a top 5 player.
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