Josh Allen OLB/ILB/DE Kentucky | Page 12

Dec 8, 2018 at 6:01 AM

LifelongNiner
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Posts: 22,353

Originally posted by Heroism:
Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
Or anywhere near as strong, Allen would be a great consolation, but doesn't hold a candle to Bosa IMO.

He's a huge project as a LEO, there are some things I really like, get off, bend, speed, size. Others that worry me, I've seen him walled off and redirected by TE's and haven't seen an inside move.

For me he starts off as a passing down nickel rusher who plays SAM in base. Plenty of value, just not Bosa.

Assuming Saleh is still around next year, it raises some questions:

-If he's at SAM, he doesn't help our base pass rush. The Sam LB RARELY rushes the QB. That means our pass rush still blows in base.
-Saleh leans on his snickel package(AA-Mitchel-Defo-Solly) in nickel to remain stout against the run. Does Allen see the field in this package? Or is he relegated to Saleh's obvious-pass-down nickel package(which is the one least used)?

I wonder if his philosophy changes with the personnel. Like if AA and Mitchell are gone next year, is he going to still obsess over stopping the run? We've got to bend in that area a bit more. I'm beginning to believe Saleh does not prioritize rushing the QB. Predictable blitzes and rarely playing his best combination of pass rushers. Maybe things will change some if we aren't losing so much and/or are blowing teams out ourselves.

Dec 8, 2018 at 7:20 AM

#167

evil
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Posts: 45,776

Originally posted by Heroism:
Assuming Saleh is still around next year, it raises some questions:

-If he's at SAM, he doesn't help our base pass rush. The Sam LB RARELY rushes the QB. That means our pass rush still blows in base.
-Saleh leans on his snickel package(AA-Mitchel-Defo-Solly) in nickel to remain stout against the run. Does Allen see the field in this package? Or is he relegated to Saleh's obvious-pass-down nickel package(which is the one least used)?

Unless they would land a pass rusher in FA.

Dec 8, 2018 at 8:09 AM

#168

SammyFrancisco
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Posts: 465

Originally posted by Heroism:
Assuming Saleh is still around next year, it raises some questions:

-If he's at SAM, he doesn't help our base pass rush. The Sam LB RARELY rushes the QB. That means our pass rush still blows in base.
-Saleh leans on his snickel package(AA-Mitchel-Defo-Solly) in nickel to remain stout against the run. Does Allen see the field in this package? Or is he relegated to Saleh's obvious-pass-down nickel package(which is the one least used)?

True.
But 1.) we're rarely in base. So his Nickel responsibility is much more relevant. 2.) He would improve our coverage as an LB in base, which is also valuable.
Yes, we still need to upgrade Leo in that world. But Allen is still a good marriage of Talent and Need.

Dec 8, 2018 at 1:05 PM

#169

NYniner85
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Posts: 107,596

Dec 8, 2018 at 1:16 PM

#170

NYniner85
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Posts: 107,596

Originally posted by SammyFrancisco:
Originally posted by Heroism:
Assuming Saleh is still around next year, it raises some questions:

-If he's at SAM, he doesn't help our base pass rush. The Sam LB RARELY rushes the QB. That means our pass rush still blows in base.
-Saleh leans on his snickel package(AA-Mitchel-Defo-Solly) in nickel to remain stout against the run. Does Allen see the field in this package? Or is he relegated to Saleh's obvious-pass-down nickel package(which is the one least used)?

True.
But 1.) we're rarely in base. So his Nickel responsibility is much more relevant. 2.) He would improve our coverage as an LB in base, which is also valuable.
Yes, we still need to upgrade Leo in that world. But Allen is still a good marriage of Talent and Need.

Going off of 2017 (football outsiders doesn't have 2018 #s) SF was 10th overall in amount of snaps in BASE and 22nd in amount of snaps in nickel.

Just for fun, I looked at teams that run the same scheme and how often they played in nickel...

ATL-2nd most snaps in nickel
Jax-6th most snaps in nickel
Seattle-3rd most snaps in nickel.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/2017-defensive-personnel-analysis

Dec 8, 2018 at 1:16 PM

#171

Heroism
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Posts: 23,282

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Bwahaha, you can tell Voch was an OL from his analysis lol. Good evaluation of Allen. Pretty much agree with everything. The need for a counter/secondary move is the overarching takeaway.

TBH, if the Niners draft him, I wouldn't f**k around and waste him at SAM. Put him at Leo. After a year in an NFL weight room with improved technique and pad level, he should be fine.

Dec 8, 2018 at 1:32 PM

#172

NYniner85
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Posts: 107,596

Originally posted by Heroism:
Bwahaha, you can tell Voch was an OL from his analysis lol. Good evaluation of Allen. Pretty much agree with everything. The need for a counter/secondary move is the overarching takeaway.

TBH, if the Niners draft him, I wouldn't f**k around and waste him at SAM. Put him at Leo. After a year in an NFL weight room with improved technique and pad level, he should be fine.

Yup I agree throw him at LEO and let's go. Hopefully we don't have to worry about it and just draft Bosa

Dec 8, 2018 at 1:40 PM

#173

49erBigMac
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Posts: 7,156

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by Heroism:
Bwahaha, you can tell Voch was an OL from his analysis lol. Good evaluation of Allen. Pretty much agree with everything. The need for a counter/secondary move is the overarching takeaway.

TBH, if the Niners draft him, I wouldn't f**k around and waste him at SAM. Put him at Leo. After a year in an NFL weight room with improved technique and pad level, he should be fine.

Yup I agree throw him at LEO and let's go. Hopefully we don't have to worry about it and just draft Bosa

I thought we were done playing people away from their natural position to fill a need?

Dec 8, 2018 at 1:50 PM

#174

Heroism
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Posts: 23,282

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
I thought we were done playing people away from their natural position to fill a need?

I don't understand what you mean. Leo is the premier edge rusher; Josh Allen is an edge rusher.

This is what you expect from the Leo spot. His get off with his hand in the world is disgusting. And step right up into Defo's arms, thank you.

Dec 8, 2018 at 2:05 PM

#175

49erBigMac
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Posts: 7,156

Look don't get me wrong I think Allen has amazing potential, but like it or not we value our edge defenders to be able to play the run effectively. Allen has stood up the majority of his college career and is a project to play LEO, he will probably get there, but it's a square peg in a rectangular hole.

If we were to take Allen we'd be better off only playing him on the edge in obvious passing downs, he can stand at SAM the rest of the time until he's ready.

Dec 8, 2018 at 3:08 PM

#176

Heroism
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Let's just end up with Nick Bosa so we don't have to entertain these discussions.

Dec 8, 2018 at 4:15 PM

#177

NYniner85
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Posts: 107,596

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
I thought we were done playing people away from their natural position to fill a need?

That's not really apples to apples if that is in reference to Thomas

Like hero said hopefully we can just draft Bosa and not have to worry about it

[ Edited by NYniner85 on Dec 8, 2018 at 4:16 PM ]

Dec 8, 2018 at 7:59 PM

#178

SteveYoung
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Posts: 3,697

Originally posted by Heroism:
Assuming Saleh is still around next year, it raises some questions:

-If he's at SAM, he doesn't help our base pass rush. The Sam LB RARELY rushes the QB. That means our pass rush still blows in base.
-Saleh leans on his snickel package(AA-Mitchel-Defo-Solly) in nickel to remain stout against the run. Does Allen see the field in this package? Or is he relegated to Saleh's obvious-pass-down nickel package(which is the one least used)?

I read somewhere that our SAM last year (Eli Harold) was blitzed on 65% of his snaps. He just wasn't any good at it.

And this year we have Nzeocha who is good at nothing.

Anyways, I don't want a SAM with our 1st round pick and if Allen is projected to be a standup pass rusher let him go to a 3-4 team.

I want Joey Bosa #1 and if we get a trade that blows our socks off I want Brian Burns in picks 10-20. They are the top 2 edge rushers IMO. (Along with Ferrell but he should go top 5-10)

Dec 8, 2018 at 8:02 PM

#179

Heroism
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Posts: 23,282

Originally posted by SteveYoung:
I read somewhere that our SAM last year (Eli Harold) was blitzed on 65% of his snaps.

That's egregiously incorrect. SAM spends 99% of snaps in coverage(the flat) on passing downs. It wouldn't make sense to blitz 65% because 7 defenders are needed in coverage to play cover 3, so that right there tells you that stat is BS.

2 things: The prototype edge rushers in this scheme are "3-4 OLB." Also, if Josh Allen is being pigeonholed a 3-4, Brian Burns sure as hell is in the same boat.

[ Edited by Heroism on Dec 8, 2018 at 8:16 PM ]

Dec 9, 2018 at 2:56 AM

#180

49erBigMac
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Posts: 7,156

Originally posted by Heroism:
Let's just end up with Nick Bosa so we don't have to entertain these discussions.

That is certainly the preferred option. I think Allen could develop into our LEO, he has some Von Miller about him. I just don't think he'd be suited as a rookie.

The big question would be, do you take Ferrell who could play the role now, or go with the potential of Allen or Polite?