With EVERY position addressed, should 49ers move up in 2015 for top WR/CB?

Originally posted by buck:

Originally posted by Rascal:
I don't consider Quinton Patton as a speed WR, he is neither fast nor big enough to be a legit deep threat wideout. Remember the first Seahawks game last season ? The poor kid literally got thrown around like a rag doll by their D. So, fast forward one year, who and where is that deep threat wideout ?

Do you really have to be big to be a legitimate deep threat wide out?

How big is D Jackson?

I remember one play in the Seattle game where Patton got mugged.

Are you saying that Bruce Ellington is too slow or too small to be an effective deep threat?

If you are, please explain your reasoning.

The point is if you are not that fast then you better be big. Or as Rex Ryan says, if you have fast big and fast small, give me fast big. That's the general idea of where I am coming from.

DeSean Jackson is not big, but amongst the top deep threat wideouts, how many are that size as opposed to Josh Gordon, Calvin Johnson, Alshon Jeffrey, Brandon Marshall, Julio Jones, etc. ?

As for Bruce Ellington, he is known more as a slot receiver. Sure, he can play deep, but is he the intended definitive answer to our deep threat need ? I don't know, we shall have to see about that.

Originally posted by buck:

Originally posted by Garlicboy:
You're right on point. I think people think 4.3 is necessary for a speed receiver. Not true. IMHO, one of the best deep threat speed WR is Torrey Smith and he had a 4.43 forty. Ellington is right there at 4.45

So. there are at least two members who think that Baalke drafted a wide receiver that is fast enough to stretch the field.

I do not feel as lonely.

I'm with you buck! You're not alone. See, people need to look at our other personnel as well. With the obvious attention given to Crabtree, Boldin and VD, shifty guys like Stevie (lots of moves in his route running) and Ellington (both from the slot so this means they are uncontested) could easily sift through and sneak behind the secondary as deep threats. And even Patton runs in the 4.4's. We scored a couple TD's with VD (4.3) from this same concept. It's the other 10 players that often contribute to this "deep threat" idea.

Originally posted by buck:

Originally posted by Garlicboy:
You're right on point. I think people think 4.3 is necessary for a speed receiver. Not true. IMHO, one of the best deep threat speed WR is Torrey Smith and he had a 4.43 forty. Ellington is right there at 4.45

So. there are at least two members who think that Baalke drafted a wide receiver that is fast enough to stretch the field.

I do not feel as lonely.

Not only does he have fast football speed He knows how to get open,how to find the soft spots in a zone defense,Ellington is slippery to,I watched some of his game tapes and I`m still trying to figure out how does he get open,not to get off subject,but I havce seen Johnson tape too and this guy has some really slick-shifty moves like the one he put ondick-sherm,that move had me cracking up he made dick-sherm look real silly and he tried to grab and was left grabbing air...classic,if patton get more of a chance to play he has some shiftiness to him to,Ellinton will be our field-strecher along with Davis look out LOB you are gonna have play real man to man defense this year.

Originally posted by Rascal:

The point is if you are not that fast then you better be big. Or as Rex Ryan says, if you have fast big and fast small, give me fast big. That's the general idea of where I am coming from.

DeSean Jackson is not big, but amongst the top deep threat wideouts, how many are that size as opposed to Josh Gordon, Calvin Johnson, Alshon Jeffrey, Brandon Marshall, Julio Jones, etc. ?

As for Bruce Ellington, he is known more as a slot receiver. Sure, he can play deep, but is he the intended definitive answer to our deep threat need ? I don't know, we shall have to see about that.

First and foremost, you have to be a good receiver. Fast and big does not help bad. Fast and small does not help bad.

Brandin Cooks is 5'10" and 189 lbs. Ellington is 5" 9" and 197 lbs. Cooks is generally considered big enough to be a legitimate deep threat. Ellington is arguably bigger than Cooks.

I never suggested, and I do not think that anyone else has, that Ellington is the intended definitive answer to our deep threat need. I said that I thought he was fast enough to be a deep threat.

Do you really think that Ellington is not fast enough to be considered a deep threat?

As far as I know, a slot receiver can be a deep threat. If I am correct, it makes no difference if Ellington plays in the slot.

I wholeheartedly agree that we have to wait and see what happens, but in all honesty I was absolutely sure that you had already concluded that Baalke did not draft a wide receiver with the speed to a legitimate deep threat in this draft.

I guess I was mistaken. Was I mistaken?

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by buck:

Originally posted by Garlicboy:

You're right on point. I think people think 4.3 is necessary for a speed receiver. Not true. IMHO, one of the best deep threat speed WR is Torrey Smith and he had a 4.43 forty. Ellington is right there at 4.45

So. there are at least two members who think that Baalke drafted a wide receiver that is fast enough to stretch the field.

I do not feel as lonely.

I'm with you buck! You're not alone. See, people need to look at our other personnel as well. With the obvious attention given to Crabtree, Boldin and VD, shifty guys like Stevie (lots of moves in his route running) and Ellington (both from the slot so this means they are uncontested) could easily sift through and sneak behind the secondary as deep threats. And even Patton runs in the 4.4's. We scored a couple TD's with VD (4.3) from this same concept. It's the other 10 players that often contribute to this "deep threat" idea.

Originally posted by jrouter4949:

Not only does he have fast football speed He knows how to get open,how to find the soft spots in a zone defense,Ellington is slippery to,I watched some of his game tapes and I`m still trying to figure out how does he get open,not to get off subject,but I havce seen Johnson tape too and this guy has some really slick-shifty moves like the one he put ondick-sherm,that move had me cracking up he made dick-sherm look real silly and he tried to grab and was left grabbing air...classic,if patton get more of a chance to play he has some shiftiness to him to,Ellinton will be our field-strecher along with Davis look out LOB you are gonna have play real man to man defense this year.

OK. I no longer feel lonely. Now it is starting to get crowded in here.

I am starting to feel claustrophobic.

Originally posted by buck:
OK. I no longer feel lonely. Now it is starting to get crowded in here.

I am starting to feel claustrophobic.

LOL (buck quickly diverts to stats page)

could not find any stats, but this article speaks about Ellington.

Looking at each team's best value pick


SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS Round 4/106 -- Bruce Ellington, WR, 5-9, 197, South Carolina

--Ellington gives the 49ers a much-needed deep threat and slot receiver.

The two-sport star also played basketball for the Gamecocks, so he brings exceptional athleticism.

He plays faster than his 4.45 40 time indicates, giving San Francisco another option for kickoff and punt return duties.

A playmaker, Ellington has starter skills in a compact frame.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/nfl-draft-scout/24559062/nfl-draft-teams-covet-best-value-picks

Ellington did well at the combine.

In the table below the yellow highlights indicate that standard was met.



We still have to see how well he plays, but the signs are encouraging.

Here are some of the results of metrics used to measure the athletic capacities of draft picks.

1. Agility Metric (Simple agility= SS + 3C times)
Under 11.1 is very strong.
ELLINGTON, B.---10.64

4th best among wide receivers at the combine

2. Weighted Agility = 100*(1-(3 Cone/(0.0573*(weight/height)+4.8403)))
Ellington, B---5.213960096

3rd best among wide receivers at the combine

3. Twitch = Shuttle - 2*10 yd split - (1.60 - 10 yd split)
Lower is better
Ellington, B.--0.72

2nd best among wide receivers at the combine

Originally posted by buck:
Here are some of the results of metrics used to measure the athletic capacities of draft picks.

1. Agility Metric (Simple agility= SS + 3C times)
Under 11.1 is very strong.
ELLINGTON, B.---10.64

4th best among wide receivers at the combine

2. Weighted Agility = 100*(1-(3 Cone/(0.0573*(weight/height)+4.8403)))
Ellington, B---5.213960096

3rd best among wide receivers at the combine

3. Twitch = Shuttle - 2*10 yd split - (1.60 - 10 yd split)
Lower is better
Ellington, B.--0.72

2nd best among wide receivers at the combine

Buck, good knowledge.

Mel Kiper brought up a good point. He compared Elllington to Brandin Cooks and stated that he is not a far cry from Brandin Cooks.

I would go so far and state that I wouldn't be surprised if he is better than Brandin Cooks. He has the bloodline and the guy did not FOCUS on foot ball until last year. His route running looked horrible. Ellington has a lot of room for improvement and he is already slightly taller, longer and heavier than Cooks. Not saying that Cooks won't be good, but as Trent Baalke noted, you have to be a special kind of athlete to play both College football and basketball at the same time. He basically relied a lot on PURE athleticism as he wasn't afforded an off season of weight training and film study. He was playing basketball.

College basketball Power Forwards have been making All Pro conversions to Tight End in the NFL.

I'm not sure how many PG's have made the conversion to WR/CB in the NFL, but if history is any indication, Bruce Ellington's future is bright.

Where's WR 6'6' Dorial Green Beckham on your list? I know he has off field issues, but he's really young. Best WR prospect since Calvin Johnson.

Originally posted by Rascal:

I didn't say Baalke never tried to address it, I said he has never addressed it "properly or with success". Take last year's training camp for example, didn't it become kind of desperate as Baalke traded AJ Jenkins and ended up having to scramble to sign a boatload of no-name free agents which as it turned out none of them worked out neither ? My point is did he only realize AJ Jenkins was a bust during training camp or did he already have an idea before that ? Perhaps he could have done more about it in the draft apart from picking Quinton Patton ? I don't consider Quinton Patton as a speed WR, he is neither fast nor big enough to be a legit deep threat wideout. Remember the first Seahawks game last season ? The poor kid literally got thrown around like a rag doll by their D. So, fast forward one year, who and where is that deep threat wideout ?

Jerry Rice was never a speed demon, but he got behind DB's regularly. Not saying any of our WR's are Jerry, but there are *other* ways of beating the press other than speed. (Buck has a great thread on it somewhere here) I think Baalke and the front office dealt quickly with Bust Jenkins. They gave him basically two training camps and then got rid of them, that's pretty quick work for a number one pick. WR's aren't a big priority in this offense. I mean we had crap WR's in 2011 and got to the NFC CG, we had a bit better squad in 2012 and got to the super bowl, and 2013 we had injuries nobody could have predicted. We finally had the draft resources to deal squarely with the WR squad difficiencies and I think they did a good job. You may disagree. YOu may be right. Time will tell, but this front office and this coaching staff is doing everything it can to win. For that you can be sure of it.

Originally posted by kronik:
Where's WR 6'6' Dorial Green Beckham on your list? I know he has off field issues, but he's really young. Best WR prospect since Calvin Johnson.

He is a freak! Nice call.

Just put up 6' ish speed guys so all the "Speed WR" n-t huggers will have some hope for next year and decrease the whining.

Originally posted by kronik:
Where's WR 6'6' Dorial Green Beckham on your list? I know he has off field issues, but he's really young. Best WR prospect since Calvin Johnson.

Perhaps the next Da'Rick Rogers? Nobody seems to know what is going on with him, even if he for sure is going to EIU. A lot of periphery issues that could result in a freefall down the boards.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Perhaps the next Da'Rick Rogers? Nobody seems to know what is going on with him, even if he for sure is going to EIU. A lot of periphery issues that could result in a freefall down the boards.

Or worse, Kenny Britt! At least Britt has a future in films