***Johnny Manziel thread***

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by kray28:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
You gotta be kidding man. Colleges don't compensate their athletes WTF!! Then what do you call scholarships and an opportunity to get in the NFL?? I mean if you let these kids start making money in college in any kind of way, your basically opening up a can of worms. For instance, schools will start throwing money at them in a twisted kind of way where a player will no longer choose a school that he wants to go to but where the money is at, then next thing you know you have the New York Yankees in college football. Cheesus a degree doesn't mean anything in college anymore, college football players are doing things not everyone can do, isn't honor enough or you need a $100 to go along with it.

If players don't like that they can't make money off of the player they are, then don't go to college plain and simple.

The big joke is the conflation of getting an education with the highly profitable business of selling college football to America on the backs of America's largest student-athlete slave labor force.

Nothing wrong with getting an education...I am all for it. But many of these student-athletes are simply not there to learn....they're there for as long as they have to be and then they are in the pros. It's a huge sham. Tthe NCAA basically runs the NFL's farm system and makes a ginormous profit from that particular peculiar institution.

How can you assume some players are in it just to get into the NFL, most of them have degrees and some declare but not because they were in it from the get go. Players agents and the NFL Draft committee advised them, if not those that are seniors usually stay and graduate. Sure there's a few bad apples in college but don't list them as the majority.

Yes, the NCAA does has something to do with players going to the NFL, but how can you not see its the right way. Its not like Basketball where they could come right outta High School, they're giving these players a chance to further their education. And these scholarships aren't cheap either between the $30-40,000 range. That's more than what some 7th round draft picks make on a signing bonus ( ok maybe they make a little more). But its frustrating how some college kids don't realize the opportunity they're getting, but no they want more, ridiculous.

You can't be serious. Maybe you would have a different opinion if you played college basketball, football or had friends that played. Basketball players seem to be the most delusional 1/2 the D3 and up guys think they are NBA bound, football is probably 1/4 or better. Unless it is an IVY league school or has IVY league academic standards there are guys on teams that do not belong in college, many athletes are in remedial classes, or in classes where next to no work is required. They can end up with some BS degree that is worthless if they graduate at all. Correct me if something has changed since I went to college 30+ years ago. Had a half dozen or so guys on my D3 team in college that couldn't do 6th grade math and probably read at that level also, they were there to keep playing football and nothing else.

Originally posted by kray28:
The big joke is the conflation of getting an education with the highly profitable business of selling college football to America on the backs of America's largest student-athlete slave labor force.

Nothing wrong with getting an education...I am all for it. But many of these student-athletes are simply not there to learn....they're there for as long as they have to be and then they are in the pros. It's a huge sham. Tthe NCAA basically runs the NFL's farm system and makes a ginormous profit from that particular peculiar institution.

slave labor force? LMAO! Where do you get this crap?!?

NCAA is a lot more than an NFL Farm System. If college football vanished and a semi-pro farm system is in place, less than half of people that watch college football would tune in. The College program is an extremely big deal and is larger than any individual athlete.

And why do you keep repeating "profit"? Name one school that makes a "ginormous" profit form its athletic department.

Originally posted by BobS:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by kray28:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
You gotta be kidding man. Colleges don't compensate their athletes WTF!! Then what do you call scholarships and an opportunity to get in the NFL?? I mean if you let these kids start making money in college in any kind of way, your basically opening up a can of worms. For instance, schools will start throwing money at them in a twisted kind of way where a player will no longer choose a school that he wants to go to but where the money is at, then next thing you know you have the New York Yankees in college football. Cheesus a degree doesn't mean anything in college anymore, college football players are doing things not everyone can do, isn't honor enough or you need a $100 to go along with it.

If players don't like that they can't make money off of the player they are, then don't go to college plain and simple.

The big joke is the conflation of getting an education with the highly profitable business of selling college football to America on the backs of America's largest student-athlete slave labor force.

Nothing wrong with getting an education...I am all for it. But many of these student-athletes are simply not there to learn....they're there for as long as they have to be and then they are in the pros. It's a huge sham. Tthe NCAA basically runs the NFL's farm system and makes a ginormous profit from that particular peculiar institution.

How can you assume some players are in it just to get into the NFL, most of them have degrees and some declare but not because they were in it from the get go. Players agents and the NFL Draft committee advised them, if not those that are seniors usually stay and graduate. Sure there's a few bad apples in college but don't list them as the majority.

Yes, the NCAA does has something to do with players going to the NFL, but how can you not see its the right way. Its not like Basketball where they could come right outta High School, they're giving these players a chance to further their education. And these scholarships aren't cheap either between the $30-40,000 range. That's more than what some 7th round draft picks make on a signing bonus ( ok maybe they make a little more). But its frustrating how some college kids don't realize the opportunity they're getting, but no they want more, ridiculous.

You can't be serious. Maybe you would have a different opinion if you played college basketball, football or had friends that played. Basketball players seem to be the most delusional 1/2 the D3 and up guys think they are NBA bound, football is probably 1/4 or better. Unless it is an IVY league school or has IVY league academic standards there are guys on teams that do not belong in college, many athletes are in remedial classes, or in classes where next to no work is required. They can end up with some BS degree that is worthless if they graduate at all. Correct me if something has changed since I went to college 30+ years ago. Had a half dozen or so guys on my D3 team in college that couldn't do 6th grade math and probably read at that level also, they were there to keep playing football and nothing else.

Funny how you just make the assumption about college athletes and me. I don't know anyone in the college basket ball level so your right I can't speak about them, my family is a football family, believe it or not I've had a cousin try out for the 9ers or was in Preseason with them not too long ago, my wifes cousin is the record holder for INT's in college, my brother-n-law plays WLB and ILB for UH right now, I was at there practice yesterday, my cousin plays baseball for UH. I have friends that know Mr. Catfish real well, and he could've went to UH, Notre Dame and USC right outta Kahuku H.S. but chose for higher education by going to Punahou (same school Obama went to). My point is, they aimed for schools that had subjects they were interested in, of course they had a dream of playing in the NFL too, who doesn't.

Btw I don't name drop you will figure out who I'm talking about.

And as for your D3 team, I blame that on the program not the players, I mean if they're not smart enough to do 6th grade math its the programs fault for letting them in and playing. Most D1 schools I know won't even let you walk in the door without certain requirements, don't know what school you went to buddy academics must be real low there.

Originally posted by BobS:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by kray28:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
You gotta be kidding man. Colleges don't compensate their athletes WTF!! Then what do you call scholarships and an opportunity to get in the NFL?? I mean if you let these kids start making money in college in any kind of way, your basically opening up a can of worms. For instance, schools will start throwing money at them in a twisted kind of way where a player will no longer choose a school that he wants to go to but where the money is at, then next thing you know you have the New York Yankees in college football. Cheesus a degree doesn't mean anything in college anymore, college football players are doing things not everyone can do, isn't honor enough or you need a $100 to go along with it.

If players don't like that they can't make money off of the player they are, then don't go to college plain and simple.

The big joke is the conflation of getting an education with the highly profitable business of selling college football to America on the backs of America's largest student-athlete slave labor force.

Nothing wrong with getting an education...I am all for it. But many of these student-athletes are simply not there to learn....they're there for as long as they have to be and then they are in the pros. It's a huge sham. Tthe NCAA basically runs the NFL's farm system and makes a ginormous profit from that particular peculiar institution.

How can you assume some players are in it just to get into the NFL, most of them have degrees and some declare but not because they were in it from the get go. Players agents and the NFL Draft committee advised them, if not those that are seniors usually stay and graduate. Sure there's a few bad apples in college but don't list them as the majority.

Yes, the NCAA does has something to do with players going to the NFL, but how can you not see its the right way. Its not like Basketball where they could come right outta High School, they're giving these players a chance to further their education. And these scholarships aren't cheap either between the $30-40,000 range. That's more than what some 7th round draft picks make on a signing bonus ( ok maybe they make a little more). But its frustrating how some college kids don't realize the opportunity they're getting, but no they want more, ridiculous.

You can't be serious. Maybe you would have a different opinion if you played college basketball, football or had friends that played. Basketball players seem to be the most delusional 1/2 the D3 and up guys think they are NBA bound, football is probably 1/4 or better. Unless it is an IVY league school or has IVY league academic standards there are guys on teams that do not belong in college, many athletes are in remedial classes, or in classes where next to no work is required. They can end up with some BS degree that is worthless if they graduate at all. Correct me if something has changed since I went to college 30+ years ago. Had a half dozen or so guys on my D3 team in college that couldn't do 6th grade math and probably read at that level also, they were there to keep playing football and nothing else.

Quite frankly, there are a lot of students in college who do not belong. Not because they are not good enough, but because they lack the focus, preparation, or discipline. Many have the grammatical skills of a primary school student or less. Admittedly, I came from the pool of those that struggled, but not because I lacked the intellectual ability. I struggled because I did not give a f**k about school at the time. I over came because I worked for it.

I have taught division one athletes. I have found some to be quite bright, while others struggled and washed out. Their struggles, though, were a result of a lack of preparation to attend college at the high school level where they are coddled and over-glorified for their athletic prowess, which, whether they know it or not, is fleeting. Their intellectual development lasts far longer. Some do not think this way. Part of it is their own fault, the other their parents or support systems that assure them that athletics is the way for them, the only way for them, and the rest falls at the feet of a society that is so hungry for the next big thing that they will shower them with faux love and adoration that is until the next big thing comes down the pipe. This is not a new story. Thanks to digital media, Athletes, and many to their credit recognize this, have the ability to learn about how the system sucks them in and spits them right back out. I suspect this is why many want to get what they can, while they can, which is really what all of this is about. The problem is they believe they are entitled to a great deal. But are they?

Sure, they make the universities they attend a great deal of capital, but so do all the other students--yep, I am talking about the lone science, history (FTW!), math, and "undeclared" majors who buy the gear of the university, eat at its facilities, attend the games, join the fraternities and sororities, pay the exuberant fees for labs, parking, and facilities. What about them? Do you pay them for attending and performing in the classroom? What about the professors? You say they are paid. I say look at how much they are paid in comparison to how much it cost them to acquire the education necessary to do the job; see how their classes grow, which means the quality of instruction drops, yet they are expected to maintain a high level of performance; that they have to pay to park on the very campus they teach at (what other job do you have to pay to park where you work?!?!?), and are expected to publish. The uninformed say a professor can never be fired because they receive tenure. Indeed, in our country, tenure is under assault. If people want to act against something, go after the lack of term limits in Congress--the same one that has a 13% approval rating. Tenure is not what people think it is. It affords protections, but that is for the ability to pursue knowledge without the fear of being fired in the process. Is it harder to be laid off? Yes, but it can still happen. My point is, do you pay the athletes more than these two groups? It is already difficult enough to get some athletes to take you seriously, but if you pay them, would they even bother trying? Though I am a political liberal, I don't believe in throwing money at problems to fix them. Besides, we are already paying them.

On average, I am willing to bet that most, not all, but most average athletes lives better or at the very least similar lives to average college students. Especially when it comes to Football, Basketball, and Baseball players. I am not saying some won't suffer, they do. But the good ones never do. When I hear the argument for pay to play it is angled for those who suffer, but face it this is not about them. It is about the Johnny "Footballs" of the world who have an incredible talent with an oddly shaped ball. It is about keeping them out of trouble. b******t. It is about making it possible to offer large signing bonuses to these wunderkinds to come play ball for the old U. It has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with some sort of liberalization or unionization of college football. I am from the South sir, the reigning king of the college football world, they hate unions there. A pity. Since they would protect their right to employment in right-to-work states. They don't want unionization, they want more trophies for the old U! That is what this is about. That is why Spurrier opens his yap about it. That's why other coaches have talked about it because they can escape the nasty under-belly of big time college athletics, and openly pile truck loads of money to recruit dudes to play ball. It has nothing, zero, natta, to do with Joe Willie Third-Stringer, who is trying to make the team, and maybe, be a chemical engineer.

Do I think it is right that colleges and universities, but more importantly, the NCAA makes a s**t-ton off of these kids? No. But I also feel the same f**king way about the guy that works at Wal Mart, Costco, the student who discovers something in a lab on campus and therefore will have to cut the university in on it, the professor who works long hours to eek out a book that brings prestige to the university, but not always a bump in pay, the Cop who bags three more thugs today, but doesn't get a bonus, the firefighter who saves an extra life, the Doctor that finds a cure for Cancer, etc, etc. They are all compensated in their own way, but sometimes, it isn't as much as it should be.

The kids are compensated, but not to the level that they feel is right. Welcome to the capitalistic world. Remember, College is about preparing you for the world. Giving a stipend is a bandaid for a problem bigger than Johnny Football. If the players want real compensation, they should form a union. Good luck with that.

Originally posted by fropwns:

Originally posted by BobS:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by kray28:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
You gotta be kidding man. Colleges don't compensate their athletes WTF!! Then what do you call scholarships and an opportunity to get in the NFL?? I mean if you let these kids start making money in college in any kind of way, your basically opening up a can of worms. For instance, schools will start throwing money at them in a twisted kind of way where a player will no longer choose a school that he wants to go to but where the money is at, then next thing you know you have the New York Yankees in college football. Cheesus a degree doesn't mean anything in college anymore, college football players are doing things not everyone can do, isn't honor enough or you need a $100 to go along with it.

If players don't like that they can't make money off of the player they are, then don't go to college plain and simple.

The big joke is the conflation of getting an education with the highly profitable business of selling college football to America on the backs of America's largest student-athlete slave labor force.

Nothing wrong with getting an education...I am all for it. But many of these student-athletes are simply not there to learn....they're there for as long as they have to be and then they are in the pros. It's a huge sham. Tthe NCAA basically runs the NFL's farm system and makes a ginormous profit from that particular peculiar institution.

How can you assume some players are in it just to get into the NFL, most of them have degrees and some declare but not because they were in it from the get go. Players agents and the NFL Draft committee advised them, if not those that are seniors usually stay and graduate. Sure there's a few bad apples in college but don't list them as the majority.

Yes, the NCAA does has something to do with players going to the NFL, but how can you not see its the right way. Its not like Basketball where they could come right outta High School, they're giving these players a chance to further their education. And these scholarships aren't cheap either between the $30-40,000 range. That's more than what some 7th round draft picks make on a signing bonus ( ok maybe they make a little more). But its frustrating how some college kids don't realize the opportunity they're getting, but no they want more, ridiculous.

You can't be serious. Maybe you would have a different opinion if you played college basketball, football or had friends that played. Basketball players seem to be the most delusional 1/2 the D3 and up guys think they are NBA bound, football is probably 1/4 or better. Unless it is an IVY league school or has IVY league academic standards there are guys on teams that do not belong in college, many athletes are in remedial classes, or in classes where next to no work is required. They can end up with some BS degree that is worthless if they graduate at all. Correct me if something has changed since I went to college 30+ years ago. Had a half dozen or so guys on my D3 team in college that couldn't do 6th grade math and probably read at that level also, they were there to keep playing football and nothing else.

Quite frankly, there are a lot of students in college who do not belong. Not because they are not good enough, but because they lack the focus, preparation, or discipline. Many have the grammatical skills of a primary school student or less. Admittedly, I came from the pool of those that struggled, but not because I lacked the intellectual ability. I struggled because I did not give a f**k about school at the time. I over came because I worked for it.

I have taught division one athletes. I have found some to be quite bright, while others struggled and washed out. Their struggles, though, were a result of a lack of preparation to attend college at the high school level where they are coddled and over-glorified for their athletic prowess, which, whether they know it or not, is fleeting. Their intellectual development lasts far longer. Some do not think this way. Part of it is their own fault, the other their parents or support systems that assure them that athletics is the way for them, the only way for them, and the rest falls at the feet of a society that is so hungry for the next big thing that they will shower them with faux love and adoration that is until the next big thing comes down the pipe. This is not a new story. Thanks to digital media, Athletes, and many to their credit recognize this, have the ability to learn about how the system sucks them in and spits them right back out. I suspect this is why many want to get what they can, while they can, which is really what all of this is about. The problem is they believe they are entitled to a great deal. But are they?

Sure, they make the universities they attend a great deal of capital, but so do all the other students--yep, I am talking about the lone science, history (FTW!), math, and "undeclared" majors who buy the gear of the university, eat at its facilities, attend the games, join the fraternities and sororities, pay the exuberant fees for labs, parking, and facilities. What about them? Do you pay them for attending and performing in the classroom? What about the professors? You say they are paid. I say look at how much they are paid in comparison to how much it cost them to acquire the education necessary to do the job; see how their classes grow, which means the quality of instruction drops, yet they are expected to maintain a high level of performance; that they have to pay to park on the very campus they teach at (what other job do you have to pay to park where you work?!?!?), and are expected to publish. The uninformed say a professor can never be fired because they receive tenure. Indeed, in our country, tenure is under assault. If people want to act against something, go after the lack of term limits in Congress--the same one that has a 13% approval rating. Tenure is not what people think it is. It affords protections, but that is for the ability to pursue knowledge without the fear of being fired in the process. Is it harder to be laid off? Yes, but it can still happen. My point is, do you pay the athletes more than these two groups? It is already difficult enough to get some athletes to take you seriously, but if you pay them, would they even bother trying? Though I am a political liberal, I don't believe in throwing money at problems to fix them. Besides, we are already paying them.

On average, I am willing to bet that most, not all, but most average athletes lives better or at the very least similar lives to average college students. Especially when it comes to Football, Basketball, and Baseball players. I am not saying some won't suffer, they do. But the good ones never do. When I hear the argument for pay to play it is angled for those who suffer, but face it this is not about them. It is about the Johnny "Footballs" of the world who have an incredible talent with an oddly shaped ball. It is about keeping them out of trouble. b******t. It is about making it possible to offer large signing bonuses to these wunderkinds to come play ball for the old U. It has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with some sort of liberalization or unionization of college football. I am from the South sir, the reigning king of the college football world, they hate unions there. A pity. Since they would protect their right to employment in right-to-work states. They don't want unionization, they want more trophies for the old U! That is what this is about. That is why Spurrier opens his yap about it. That's why other coaches have talked about it because they can escape the nasty under-belly of big time college athletics, and openly pile truck loads of money to recruit dudes to play ball. It has nothing, zero, natta, to do with Joe Willie Third-Stringer, who is trying to make the team, and maybe, be a chemical engineer.

Do I think it is right that colleges and universities, but more importantly, the NCAA makes a s**t-ton off of these kids? No. But I also feel the same f**king way about the guy that works at Wal Mart, Costco, the student who discovers something in a lab on campus and therefore will have to cut the university in on it, the professor who works long hours to eek out a book that brings prestige to the university, but not always a bump in pay, the Cop who bags three more thugs today, but doesn't get a bonus, the firefighter who saves an extra life, the Doctor that finds a cure for Cancer, etc, etc. They are all compensated in their own way, but sometimes, it isn't as much as it should be.

The kids are compensated, but not to the level that they feel is right. Welcome to the capitalistic world. Remember, College is about preparing you for the world. Giving a stipend is a bandaid for a problem bigger than Johnny Football. If the players want real compensation, they should form a union. Good luck with that.

Cheeses where the heck where you 5 pages ago, I wouldn't have had to struggle explaining with what you just said so detailed and well written lol.

Your education>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>my education.

Originally posted by Kolohe:
Funny how you just make the assumption about college athletes and me. I don't know anyone in the college basket ball level so your right I can't speak about them, my family is a football family, believe it or not I've had a cousin try out for the 9ers or was in Preseason with them not too long ago, my wifes cousin is the record holder for INT's in college, my brother-n-law plays WLB and ILB for UH right now, I was at there practice yesterday, my cousin plays baseball for UH. I have friends that know Mr. Catfish real well, and he could've went to UH, Notre Dame and USC right outta Kahuku H.S. but chose for higher education by going to Punahou (same school Obama went to). My point is, they aimed for schools that had subjects they were interested in, of course they had a dream of playing in the NFL too, who doesn't.

Btw I don't name drop you will figure out who I'm talking about.

And as for your D3 team, I blame that on the program not the players, I mean if they're not smart enough to do 6th grade math its the programs fault for letting them in and playing. Most D1 schools I know won't even let you walk in the door without certain requirements, don't know what school you went to buddy academics must be real low there.

I do make assumptions based on my experiences. I assume college football is just as dirty as it was 30 years ago, maybe it isn't. Therefore if someone appears to believe all programs mostly play by the rules, I think that person hasn't exposed to the cheating side of college programs. I don't name drop either, won't bite the hand that fed my friends and I. My world included all the guys on my high school team, my college team, and all the guys from the local high school that my girlfriend graduated from. There were two 1.0 GPA guys on my HS team getting offered scholarships to D1 schools. The town I lived when going to college had a local junior college that hooked the players up with phony jobs and paid them (guys my girlfriend knew from high school). The same school's coach had a connection with a HS coach in Florida and imported players from there to California. They were fed, housed, and given pocket money to play football at Junior College. I would like to think this stuff no longer exists, but I have a feeling it does.

Originally posted by BobS:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
Funny how you just make the assumption about college athletes and me. I don't know anyone in the college basket ball level so your right I can't speak about them, my family is a football family, believe it or not I've had a cousin try out for the 9ers or was in Preseason with them not too long ago, my wifes cousin is the record holder for INT's in college, my brother-n-law plays WLB and ILB for UH right now, I was at there practice yesterday, my cousin plays baseball for UH. I have friends that know Mr. Catfish real well, and he could've went to UH, Notre Dame and USC right outta Kahuku H.S. but chose for higher education by going to Punahou (same school Obama went to). My point is, they aimed for schools that had subjects they were interested in, of course they had a dream of playing in the NFL too, who doesn't.

Btw I don't name drop you will figure out who I'm talking about.

And as for your D3 team, I blame that on the program not the players, I mean if they're not smart enough to do 6th grade math its the programs fault for letting them in and playing. Most D1 schools I know won't even let you walk in the door without certain requirements, don't know what school you went to buddy academics must be real low there.

I do make assumptions based on my experiences. I assume college football is just as dirty as it was 30 years ago, maybe it isn't. Therefore if someone appears to believe all programs mostly play by the rules, I think that person hasn't exposed to the cheating side of college programs. I don't name drop either, won't bite the hand that fed my friends and I. My world included all the guys on my high school team, my college team, and all the guys from the local high school that my girlfriend graduated from. There were two 1.0 GPA guys on my HS team getting offered scholarships to D1 schools. The town I lived when going to college had a local junior college that hooked the players up with phony jobs and paid them (guys my girlfriend knew from high school). The same school's coach had a connection with a HS coach in Florida and imported players from there to California. They were fed, housed, and given pocket money to play football at Junior College. I would like to think this stuff no longer exists, but I have a feeling it does.

I guess we come from two different worlds, and like I said every kid has a dream to be a pro athlete, your story doesn't say that's all they wanted to be. How do you know they didn't have higher education in mind, it seems it wasn't their choice but whoever was guiding them. Besides anyone that can play in high school gets offers it doesn't mean they'll get'em. My brother-n-law had offers from Oregon, Boise St., Kansas, Texas A&M and Texas Tech, but he didn't have the grades for s**t. Instead he went the JC way got his AA and is now at UH, sure he wants to play in the NFL but he also has a goal of becoming a Physical Therapist....his plan C is to fight in the UFC lol.

In the end please don't speak for everyone, most know that just because you play in college there are no guarantees of making it to the NFL, I read it all the time in college recruiting articles.

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by fropwns:

Originally posted by BobS:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by kray28:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
You gotta be kidding man. Colleges don't compensate their athletes WTF!! Then what do you call scholarships and an opportunity to get in the NFL?? I mean if you let these kids start making money in college in any kind of way, your basically opening up a can of worms. For instance, schools will start throwing money at them in a twisted kind of way where a player will no longer choose a school that he wants to go to but where the money is at, then next thing you know you have the New York Yankees in college football. Cheesus a degree doesn't mean anything in college anymore, college football players are doing things not everyone can do, isn't honor enough or you need a $100 to go along with it.

If players don't like that they can't make money off of the player they are, then don't go to college plain and simple.

The big joke is the conflation of getting an education with the highly profitable business of selling college football to America on the backs of America's largest student-athlete slave labor force.

Nothing wrong with getting an education...I am all for it. But many of these student-athletes are simply not there to learn....they're there for as long as they have to be and then they are in the pros. It's a huge sham. Tthe NCAA basically runs the NFL's farm system and makes a ginormous profit from that particular peculiar institution.

How can you assume some players are in it just to get into the NFL, most of them have degrees and some declare but not because they were in it from the get go. Players agents and the NFL Draft committee advised them, if not those that are seniors usually stay and graduate. Sure there's a few bad apples in college but don't list them as the majority.

Yes, the NCAA does has something to do with players going to the NFL, but how can you not see its the right way. Its not like Basketball where they could come right outta High School, they're giving these players a chance to further their education. And these scholarships aren't cheap either between the $30-40,000 range. That's more than what some 7th round draft picks make on a signing bonus ( ok maybe they make a little more). But its frustrating how some college kids don't realize the opportunity they're getting, but no they want more, ridiculous.

You can't be serious. Maybe you would have a different opinion if you played college basketball, football or had friends that played. Basketball players seem to be the most delusional 1/2 the D3 and up guys think they are NBA bound, football is probably 1/4 or better. Unless it is an IVY league school or has IVY league academic standards there are guys on teams that do not belong in college, many athletes are in remedial classes, or in classes where next to no work is required. They can end up with some BS degree that is worthless if they graduate at all. Correct me if something has changed since I went to college 30+ years ago. Had a half dozen or so guys on my D3 team in college that couldn't do 6th grade math and probably read at that level also, they were there to keep playing football and nothing else.

Quite frankly, there are a lot of students in college who do not belong. Not because they are not good enough, but because they lack the focus, preparation, or discipline. Many have the grammatical skills of a primary school student or less. Admittedly, I came from the pool of those that struggled, but not because I lacked the intellectual ability. I struggled because I did not give a f**k about school at the time. I over came because I worked for it.

I have taught division one athletes. I have found some to be quite bright, while others struggled and washed out. Their struggles, though, were a result of a lack of preparation to attend college at the high school level where they are coddled and over-glorified for their athletic prowess, which, whether they know it or not, is fleeting. Their intellectual development lasts far longer. Some do not think this way. Part of it is their own fault, the other their parents or support systems that assure them that athletics is the way for them, the only way for them, and the rest falls at the feet of a society that is so hungry for the next big thing that they will shower them with faux love and adoration that is until the next big thing comes down the pipe. This is not a new story. Thanks to digital media, Athletes, and many to their credit recognize this, have the ability to learn about how the system sucks them in and spits them right back out. I suspect this is why many want to get what they can, while they can, which is really what all of this is about. The problem is they believe they are entitled to a great deal. But are they?

Sure, they make the universities they attend a great deal of capital, but so do all the other students--yep, I am talking about the lone science, history (FTW!), math, and "undeclared" majors who buy the gear of the university, eat at its facilities, attend the games, join the fraternities and sororities, pay the exuberant fees for labs, parking, and facilities. What about them? Do you pay them for attending and performing in the classroom? What about the professors? You say they are paid. I say look at how much they are paid in comparison to how much it cost them to acquire the education necessary to do the job; see how their classes grow, which means the quality of instruction drops, yet they are expected to maintain a high level of performance; that they have to pay to park on the very campus they teach at (what other job do you have to pay to park where you work?!?!?), and are expected to publish. The uninformed say a professor can never be fired because they receive tenure. Indeed, in our country, tenure is under assault. If people want to act against something, go after the lack of term limits in Congress--the same one that has a 13% approval rating. Tenure is not what people think it is. It affords protections, but that is for the ability to pursue knowledge without the fear of being fired in the process. Is it harder to be laid off? Yes, but it can still happen. My point is, do you pay the athletes more than these two groups? It is already difficult enough to get some athletes to take you seriously, but if you pay them, would they even bother trying? Though I am a political liberal, I don't believe in throwing money at problems to fix them. Besides, we are already paying them.

On average, I am willing to bet that most, not all, but most average athletes lives better or at the very least similar lives to average college students. Especially when it comes to Football, Basketball, and Baseball players. I am not saying some won't suffer, they do. But the good ones never do. When I hear the argument for pay to play it is angled for those who suffer, but face it this is not about them. It is about the Johnny "Footballs" of the world who have an incredible talent with an oddly shaped ball. It is about keeping them out of trouble. b******t. It is about making it possible to offer large signing bonuses to these wunderkinds to come play ball for the old U. It has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with some sort of liberalization or unionization of college football. I am from the South sir, the reigning king of the college football world, they hate unions there. A pity. Since they would protect their right to employment in right-to-work states. They don't want unionization, they want more trophies for the old U! That is what this is about. That is why Spurrier opens his yap about it. That's why other coaches have talked about it because they can escape the nasty under-belly of big time college athletics, and openly pile truck loads of money to recruit dudes to play ball. It has nothing, zero, natta, to do with Joe Willie Third-Stringer, who is trying to make the team, and maybe, be a chemical engineer.

Do I think it is right that colleges and universities, but more importantly, the NCAA makes a s**t-ton off of these kids? No. But I also feel the same f**king way about the guy that works at Wal Mart, Costco, the student who discovers something in a lab on campus and therefore will have to cut the university in on it, the professor who works long hours to eek out a book that brings prestige to the university, but not always a bump in pay, the Cop who bags three more thugs today, but doesn't get a bonus, the firefighter who saves an extra life, the Doctor that finds a cure for Cancer, etc, etc. They are all compensated in their own way, but sometimes, it isn't as much as it should be.

The kids are compensated, but not to the level that they feel is right. Welcome to the capitalistic world. Remember, College is about preparing you for the world. Giving a stipend is a bandaid for a problem bigger than Johnny Football. If the players want real compensation, they should form a union. Good luck with that.

Cheeses where the heck where you 5 pages ago, I wouldn't have had to struggle explaining with what you just said so detailed and well written lol.

Your education>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>my education.

My dog! Thank you for the kind words, but I never overestimate the value of plain old common sense. I largely agree with what you have to say about some student-athletes' ambitions. And frankly, I believe, but cannot confirm with hard evidence, but some circumstantial, that what Bob says is largely still the case. His insight is far greater than mine on the world of the "hundred dollar" handshakes, the phony jobs, the cars, etc, etc.

Originally posted by fropwns:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by fropwns:

Originally posted by BobS:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by kray28:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
You gotta be kidding man. Colleges don't compensate their athletes WTF!! Then what do you call scholarships and an opportunity to get in the NFL?? I mean if you let these kids start making money in college in any kind of way, your basically opening up a can of worms. For instance, schools will start throwing money at them in a twisted kind of way where a player will no longer choose a school that he wants to go to but where the money is at, then next thing you know you have the New York Yankees in college football. Cheesus a degree doesn't mean anything in college anymore, college football players are doing things not everyone can do, isn't honor enough or you need a $100 to go along with it.

If players don't like that they can't make money off of the player they are, then don't go to college plain and simple.

The big joke is the conflation of getting an education with the highly profitable business of selling college football to America on the backs of America's largest student-athlete slave labor force.

Nothing wrong with getting an education...I am all for it. But many of these student-athletes are simply not there to learn....they're there for as long as they have to be and then they are in the pros. It's a huge sham. Tthe NCAA basically runs the NFL's farm system and makes a ginormous profit from that particular peculiar institution.

How can you assume some players are in it just to get into the NFL, most of them have degrees and some declare but not because they were in it from the get go. Players agents and the NFL Draft committee advised them, if not those that are seniors usually stay and graduate. Sure there's a few bad apples in college but don't list them as the majority.

Yes, the NCAA does has something to do with players going to the NFL, but how can you not see its the right way. Its not like Basketball where they could come right outta High School, they're giving these players a chance to further their education. And these scholarships aren't cheap either between the $30-40,000 range. That's more than what some 7th round draft picks make on a signing bonus ( ok maybe they make a little more). But its frustrating how some college kids don't realize the opportunity they're getting, but no they want more, ridiculous.

You can't be serious. Maybe you would have a different opinion if you played college basketball, football or had friends that played. Basketball players seem to be the most delusional 1/2 the D3 and up guys think they are NBA bound, football is probably 1/4 or better. Unless it is an IVY league school or has IVY league academic standards there are guys on teams that do not belong in college, many athletes are in remedial classes, or in classes where next to no work is required. They can end up with some BS degree that is worthless if they graduate at all. Correct me if something has changed since I went to college 30+ years ago. Had a half dozen or so guys on my D3 team in college that couldn't do 6th grade math and probably read at that level also, they were there to keep playing football and nothing else.

Quite frankly, there are a lot of students in college who do not belong. Not because they are not good enough, but because they lack the focus, preparation, or discipline. Many have the grammatical skills of a primary school student or less. Admittedly, I came from the pool of those that struggled, but not because I lacked the intellectual ability. I struggled because I did not give a f**k about school at the time. I over came because I worked for it.

I have taught division one athletes. I have found some to be quite bright, while others struggled and washed out. Their struggles, though, were a result of a lack of preparation to attend college at the high school level where they are coddled and over-glorified for their athletic prowess, which, whether they know it or not, is fleeting. Their intellectual development lasts far longer. Some do not think this way. Part of it is their own fault, the other their parents or support systems that assure them that athletics is the way for them, the only way for them, and the rest falls at the feet of a society that is so hungry for the next big thing that they will shower them with faux love and adoration that is until the next big thing comes down the pipe. This is not a new story. Thanks to digital media, Athletes, and many to their credit recognize this, have the ability to learn about how the system sucks them in and spits them right back out. I suspect this is why many want to get what they can, while they can, which is really what all of this is about. The problem is they believe they are entitled to a great deal. But are they?

Sure, they make the universities they attend a great deal of capital, but so do all the other students--yep, I am talking about the lone science, history (FTW!), math, and "undeclared" majors who buy the gear of the university, eat at its facilities, attend the games, join the fraternities and sororities, pay the exuberant fees for labs, parking, and facilities. What about them? Do you pay them for attending and performing in the classroom? What about the professors? You say they are paid. I say look at how much they are paid in comparison to how much it cost them to acquire the education necessary to do the job; see how their classes grow, which means the quality of instruction drops, yet they are expected to maintain a high level of performance; that they have to pay to park on the very campus they teach at (what other job do you have to pay to park where you work?!?!?), and are expected to publish. The uninformed say a professor can never be fired because they receive tenure. Indeed, in our country, tenure is under assault. If people want to act against something, go after the lack of term limits in Congress--the same one that has a 13% approval rating. Tenure is not what people think it is. It affords protections, but that is for the ability to pursue knowledge without the fear of being fired in the process. Is it harder to be laid off? Yes, but it can still happen. My point is, do you pay the athletes more than these two groups? It is already difficult enough to get some athletes to take you seriously, but if you pay them, would they even bother trying? Though I am a political liberal, I don't believe in throwing money at problems to fix them. Besides, we are already paying them.

On average, I am willing to bet that most, not all, but most average athletes lives better or at the very least similar lives to average college students. Especially when it comes to Football, Basketball, and Baseball players. I am not saying some won't suffer, they do. But the good ones never do. When I hear the argument for pay to play it is angled for those who suffer, but face it this is not about them. It is about the Johnny "Footballs" of the world who have an incredible talent with an oddly shaped ball. It is about keeping them out of trouble. b******t. It is about making it possible to offer large signing bonuses to these wunderkinds to come play ball for the old U. It has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with some sort of liberalization or unionization of college football. I am from the South sir, the reigning king of the college football world, they hate unions there. A pity. Since they would protect their right to employment in right-to-work states. They don't want unionization, they want more trophies for the old U! That is what this is about. That is why Spurrier opens his yap about it. That's why other coaches have talked about it because they can escape the nasty under-belly of big time college athletics, and openly pile truck loads of money to recruit dudes to play ball. It has nothing, zero, natta, to do with Joe Willie Third-Stringer, who is trying to make the team, and maybe, be a chemical engineer.

Do I think it is right that colleges and universities, but more importantly, the NCAA makes a s**t-ton off of these kids? No. But I also feel the same f**king way about the guy that works at Wal Mart, Costco, the student who discovers something in a lab on campus and therefore will have to cut the university in on it, the professor who works long hours to eek out a book that brings prestige to the university, but not always a bump in pay, the Cop who bags three more thugs today, but doesn't get a bonus, the firefighter who saves an extra life, the Doctor that finds a cure for Cancer, etc, etc. They are all compensated in their own way, but sometimes, it isn't as much as it should be.

The kids are compensated, but not to the level that they feel is right. Welcome to the capitalistic world. Remember, College is about preparing you for the world. Giving a stipend is a bandaid for a problem bigger than Johnny Football. If the players want real compensation, they should form a union. Good luck with that.

Cheeses where the heck where you 5 pages ago, I wouldn't have had to struggle explaining with what you just said so detailed and well written lol.

Your education>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>my education.

My dog! Thank you for the kind words, but I never overestimate the value of plain old common sense. I largely agree with what you have to say about some student-athletes' ambitions. And frankly, I believe, but cannot confirm with hard evidence, but some circumstantial, that what Bob says is largely still the case. His insight is far greater than mine on the world of the "hundred dollar" handshakes, the phony jobs, the cars, etc, etc.

I don't disagree that some players get the secret handshake for money and other material things. I just think not everyone has the same mentality going into college.

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by fropwns:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by fropwns:

Originally posted by BobS:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by kray28:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
You gotta be kidding man. Colleges don't compensate their athletes WTF!! Then what do you call scholarships and an opportunity to get in the NFL?? I mean if you let these kids start making money in college in any kind of way, your basically opening up a can of worms. For instance, schools will start throwing money at them in a twisted kind of way where a player will no longer choose a school that he wants to go to but where the money is at, then next thing you know you have the New York Yankees in college football. Cheesus a degree doesn't mean anything in college anymore, college football players are doing things not everyone can do, isn't honor enough or you need a $100 to go along with it.

If players don't like that they can't make money off of the player they are, then don't go to college plain and simple.

The big joke is the conflation of getting an education with the highly profitable business of selling college football to America on the backs of America's largest student-athlete slave labor force.

Nothing wrong with getting an education...I am all for it. But many of these student-athletes are simply not there to learn....they're there for as long as they have to be and then they are in the pros. It's a huge sham. Tthe NCAA basically runs the NFL's farm system and makes a ginormous profit from that particular peculiar institution.

How can you assume some players are in it just to get into the NFL, most of them have degrees and some declare but not because they were in it from the get go. Players agents and the NFL Draft committee advised them, if not those that are seniors usually stay and graduate. Sure there's a few bad apples in college but don't list them as the majority.

Yes, the NCAA does has something to do with players going to the NFL, but how can you not see its the right way. Its not like Basketball where they could come right outta High School, they're giving these players a chance to further their education. And these scholarships aren't cheap either between the $30-40,000 range. That's more than what some 7th round draft picks make on a signing bonus ( ok maybe they make a little more). But its frustrating how some college kids don't realize the opportunity they're getting, but no they want more, ridiculous.

You can't be serious. Maybe you would have a different opinion if you played college basketball, football or had friends that played. Basketball players seem to be the most delusional 1/2 the D3 and up guys think they are NBA bound, football is probably 1/4 or better. Unless it is an IVY league school or has IVY league academic standards there are guys on teams that do not belong in college, many athletes are in remedial classes, or in classes where next to no work is required. They can end up with some BS degree that is worthless if they graduate at all. Correct me if something has changed since I went to college 30+ years ago. Had a half dozen or so guys on my D3 team in college that couldn't do 6th grade math and probably read at that level also, they were there to keep playing football and nothing else.

Quite frankly, there are a lot of students in college who do not belong. Not because they are not good enough, but because they lack the focus, preparation, or discipline. Many have the grammatical skills of a primary school student or less. Admittedly, I came from the pool of those that struggled, but not because I lacked the intellectual ability. I struggled because I did not give a f**k about school at the time. I over came because I worked for it.

I have taught division one athletes. I have found some to be quite bright, while others struggled and washed out. Their struggles, though, were a result of a lack of preparation to attend college at the high school level where they are coddled and over-glorified for their athletic prowess, which, whether they know it or not, is fleeting. Their intellectual development lasts far longer. Some do not think this way. Part of it is their own fault, the other their parents or support systems that assure them that athletics is the way for them, the only way for them, and the rest falls at the feet of a society that is so hungry for the next big thing that they will shower them with faux love and adoration that is until the next big thing comes down the pipe. This is not a new story. Thanks to digital media, Athletes, and many to their credit recognize this, have the ability to learn about how the system sucks them in and spits them right back out. I suspect this is why many want to get what they can, while they can, which is really what all of this is about. The problem is they believe they are entitled to a great deal. But are they?

Sure, they make the universities they attend a great deal of capital, but so do all the other students--yep, I am talking about the lone science, history (FTW!), math, and "undeclared" majors who buy the gear of the university, eat at its facilities, attend the games, join the fraternities and sororities, pay the exuberant fees for labs, parking, and facilities. What about them? Do you pay them for attending and performing in the classroom? What about the professors? You say they are paid. I say look at how much they are paid in comparison to how much it cost them to acquire the education necessary to do the job; see how their classes grow, which means the quality of instruction drops, yet they are expected to maintain a high level of performance; that they have to pay to park on the very campus they teach at (what other job do you have to pay to park where you work?!?!?), and are expected to publish. The uninformed say a professor can never be fired because they receive tenure. Indeed, in our country, tenure is under assault. If people want to act against something, go after the lack of term limits in Congress--the same one that has a 13% approval rating. Tenure is not what people think it is. It affords protections, but that is for the ability to pursue knowledge without the fear of being fired in the process. Is it harder to be laid off? Yes, but it can still happen. My point is, do you pay the athletes more than these two groups? It is already difficult enough to get some athletes to take you seriously, but if you pay them, would they even bother trying? Though I am a political liberal, I don't believe in throwing money at problems to fix them. Besides, we are already paying them.

On average, I am willing to bet that most, not all, but most average athletes lives better or at the very least similar lives to average college students. Especially when it comes to Football, Basketball, and Baseball players. I am not saying some won't suffer, they do. But the good ones never do. When I hear the argument for pay to play it is angled for those who suffer, but face it this is not about them. It is about the Johnny "Footballs" of the world who have an incredible talent with an oddly shaped ball. It is about keeping them out of trouble. b******t. It is about making it possible to offer large signing bonuses to these wunderkinds to come play ball for the old U. It has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with some sort of liberalization or unionization of college football. I am from the South sir, the reigning king of the college football world, they hate unions there. A pity. Since they would protect their right to employment in right-to-work states. They don't want unionization, they want more trophies for the old U! That is what this is about. That is why Spurrier opens his yap about it. That's why other coaches have talked about it because they can escape the nasty under-belly of big time college athletics, and openly pile truck loads of money to recruit dudes to play ball. It has nothing, zero, natta, to do with Joe Willie Third-Stringer, who is trying to make the team, and maybe, be a chemical engineer.

Do I think it is right that colleges and universities, but more importantly, the NCAA makes a s**t-ton off of these kids? No. But I also feel the same f**king way about the guy that works at Wal Mart, Costco, the student who discovers something in a lab on campus and therefore will have to cut the university in on it, the professor who works long hours to eek out a book that brings prestige to the university, but not always a bump in pay, the Cop who bags three more thugs today, but doesn't get a bonus, the firefighter who saves an extra life, the Doctor that finds a cure for Cancer, etc, etc. They are all compensated in their own way, but sometimes, it isn't as much as it should be.

The kids are compensated, but not to the level that they feel is right. Welcome to the capitalistic world. Remember, College is about preparing you for the world. Giving a stipend is a bandaid for a problem bigger than Johnny Football. If the players want real compensation, they should form a union. Good luck with that.

Cheeses where the heck where you 5 pages ago, I wouldn't have had to struggle explaining with what you just said so detailed and well written lol.

Your education>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>my education.

My dog! Thank you for the kind words, but I never overestimate the value of plain old common sense. I largely agree with what you have to say about some student-athletes' ambitions. And frankly, I believe, but cannot confirm with hard evidence, but some circumstantial, that what Bob says is largely still the case. His insight is far greater than mine on the world of the "hundred dollar" handshakes, the phony jobs, the cars, etc, etc.

I don't disagree that some players get the secret handshake for money and other material things. I just think not everyone has the same mentality going into college.

No doubt. Some flat out know they are good enough for D 1-3, but not enough for the NFL. Some, sadly, have no idea.

I wonder how inappropriate payments and grade cheating with athletes is compared to 30 years ago. There are more ways to get caught now, but also more ways to cheat. Back in the day it was kept pretty quiet, it was like a secret society, most guys didn't even tell their girlfriend. On the lower level I was at D-3, and the JC guys I knew through my girlfriend it pretty much amounted to enough to get by, money for rent, food, and some pocket money. At that time minimum wage bought more than today, I would say you lived like you made $5+ an hour when minimum wage was $2.90. The JC guys in town had a place we called the animal house, huge old rooming type house. All the new recruits could get a bed and food there, usually an assistant coach lived there and ran things. Good place for keg parties after Saturday games, just don't open the closets if they were closed, people seemed to use them for sex.

P.S. I knew I was no better than D-3 or slightly higher. I was a workout warrior whose lack of football instincts made him play smaller and slower than he actually was. No matter how hard I studied and practiced I had a 140 I.Q. in the class room and about a 70 I.Q. on the football field. Before we were in pads the coach marveled at my speed, endurance and strength. (I was a linebacker). Soon as the pads went on it was "What the ?&%!^! were you thinking?" in the film room. I think I was called out for mental errors more than the rest of the defense combined. My high physical ability is the only thing that made me an average D-3 player.

Bob, everyone here knows I played division 1 baseball. But there were no handshakes, no pretend classes or easy grades. I had to do the work. Kids qualify for entrance into school for sports when they normally would not, but thats life. They still have to go to class, pass...if they struggle, most teams get Tudors, etc to help.

maybe the top athletes in the world get to "skate" by. But most of the kids in the NCAA know they wont reach the pros, but they are glad to have a way to get into a top university that they might otherwise not be able to attend. And the NCAA has always punished schools who cheat.

Originally posted by Rubberneck36:
Bob, everyone here knows I played division 1 baseball. But there were no handshakes, no pretend classes or easy grades. I had to do the work. Kids qualify for entrance into school for sports when they normally would not, but thats life. They still have to go to class, pass...if they struggle, most teams get Tudors, etc to help.

lol

Originally posted by Rubberneck36:
Bob, everyone here knows I played division 1 baseball. But there were no handshakes, no pretend classes or easy grades. I had to do the work. Kids qualify for entrance into school for sports when they normally would not, but thats life. They still have to go to class, pass...if they struggle, most teams get Tudors, etc to help.

I actually didn't know you played Div 1 baseball. Why didn't you play for ASU?!?!??!?!

YOU THINK YOU ARE TOO GOOD FOR US?!?!?!?!??!