MadDog's 2013 NFL Draft Review

Originally posted by theduke85:
Maybe his views are flawed, but putting his views out there every year like he does and taking this ridiculous criticism is pretty admirable. Maddog puts a lot of effort into these lists, and he spends as much time researching and analyzing as anyone. I think it's pretty courageous of him to speak his views, even when he disagrees with moves that we are making. Some people here just blindly slurp every move the front office makes. For him to be objective is a breath of fresh air.

You....are correct, sir! MD adds so much to the Zone with his work. He's probably better than 90% of the so-called "draft experts" out there and the Zone is lucky to have guys like him, AB, OTC, NCommand, and a few others (sorry if I've overlooked some of the other big contributors).

Further, the whole point of the Zone is to express opinions. That is what MD does...and his happens to be a very well-educated opinion. What's the problem?

Cheers!

Originally posted by BleedRednGold:

Originally posted by Rubberneck36:

Originally posted by BleedRednGold:
Time and time again you waste your time writing nonsense. I'm glad you're not our GM cause you would run us right into the ground straight into hell. Bottom line, you don't know S#%T!

That will cost you. Write something like that again and it will be your last day on the board. PM me if you dont understand.

Is this the Stanford Experiment all over again? Give nobody's some sense of power and they think they can do anything they want. Well if this is the last one ill make it count. I'll tell you as well you don't know s**t either. f**k you and the other jack ass that knows more about jack and s**t MadDog.

Originally posted by BleedRednGold:

Originally posted by daragon:
Great points all around. I don't agree with MD's assessment as well. I think he believes he knows more then he does.

You better watch it. The MOD POLICE will get you for saying things like that about BS...I mean MD.

Really?

He gone.

While many may not agree with MD, I think that most (if not all) respect the time and effort that he puts in to his work.

If you disagree with him, great! Just be respectful.

Thanks.

I don't think draft grades can be evaluated a couple days after the draft. They can be done 3 years later like the 'Grade the 2010 draft" thread. At this point, I don't think grades from A to F can be given. It's more like draft impressions rated on a scale of 1-10 "How much do you like what the 49ers did".

MadDog,

On the Reid pick. In 3 years, when they do the re-draft, do you think Reid will be one of the top 18 players from this draft?

Originally posted by thl408:
I don't think draft grades can be evaluated a couple days after the draft. They can be done 3 years later like the 'Grade the 2010 draft" thread. At this point, I don't think grades from A to F can be given. It's more like draft impressions rated on a scale of 1-10 "How much do you like what the 49ers did".

It's a much different exercise, honestly. Grading the 2010 draft is kind of easy. You just look at the players, count the Pro Bowlers, count the busts, and come up with a letter. Some people may have slightly different criteria, but it's hard to have major disagreements.

In grading a current draft, I think there is a right way and a wrong way to do it. The right way is for all the graders to just admit out front that we can't be sure what kind of careers these players will have. A "bad" grader says things like, "I would have given this pick an A if they had taken the guy I prefer, but since they took Player X instead, I'm giving it a D." It's arrogant for a draft grader to implicitly guarantee that they know more about player evaluation than an NFL team.

But you can still grade a current draft based on the team's approach and how they addressed needs while getting good value. You can evaluate an entire class and talk about how a team balanced risk with safety.

MD's criticism of the 49ers' draft hits on a very legitimate question. The 49ers needed a TE and a S. Would they have been better off to get a higher rated TE and lower rated S? I say no. Time will tell!

Originally posted by theduke85:
I understand this logic, and I was thinking the same thing ('if they traded up to get Reid at 18, why not trade up to 14 to get Vaccaro?').

However, Harbaugh was interviewed on day 3 of the draft. In response to the pick with Reid, he said this (paraphrased): "Reid was our target all week. He is the guy we wanted. He was our top-rated player at the position coming into the draft."

Now, here's what I'm getting at with this: if the 49ers really preferred Reid to Vaccaro, why would they trade up even further to get the latter? They wouldn't! And that's why it's hard to fault them for how it played out (i.e. "oh, if only we had traded up 3 more spots!"). That criticism only makes sense if the team had the same Big Board as us and everyone else.

Thank you so much for your analysis though. Every year I read your stuff. Multiple times throughout the draft when someone was picked that I didn't know, I fired up your "top 50" topic to see where a guy ranked on your list. You get WAY too much crap around here for just sharing your views. I know the Webzone can be tough on people are objective (instead of being blind homers), so just letting you know I appreciate your work!

Thanks for your kind thoughts. Obviously, Trent and I part on our evaluation of Vacarro and Reid. To me, the league is about matchups. With the addition of Percy Harvin and Tavon Austin, it is going to take a different type of FS to play ball with these race cars. I prefer the cover skills and ability of Vacarro way beyond Reid, who I think is good , but not great in that area. As stated earlier, to me, Reid projects to SS in about 2-3 years. I want guys on the back end that are great in coverage.

One note about Jonathan Cyprien. The guy was lights out in coverage at the Senior Bowl, which featured some talented WRs. He would have been a great selection for the team at 33, even though he'd be playing the same position as Whitner, who I don't think is long for this team. In other words, this whole secondary is going to be turned over in the next few years.

One final note: In my draft, I have the Niners selecting Phillip Thomas late in the third round. This would have been 75 picks after Reid. To me, I'll take Thomas at that value over Reid.

Originally posted by BleedRednGold:

Originally posted by Rubberneck36:

Originally posted by BleedRednGold:

Time and time again you waste your time writing nonsense. I'm glad you're not our GM cause you would run us right into the ground straight into hell. Bottom line, you don't know S#%T!

That will cost you. Write something like that again and it will be your last day on the board. PM me if you dont understand.

Is this the Stanford Experiment all over again? Give nobody's some sense of power and they think they can do anything they want. Well if this is the last one ill make it count. I'll tell you as well you don't know s**t either. f**k you and the other jack ass that knows more about jack and s**t MadDog.

lol. How come I didnt see this. Thats awesome. Now he has something to tell mom at the dinner table tonight.

Originally posted by NCommand:
As to MD, awesome, awesome work as always. I almost wish trades were not allowed just so people can get a better grasp of how much quality work is done out there, like yours. Plus it just screws up all our mock drafts. LOL.

I appreciate your work, perspectives and your willingness to stand pat with your convictions. The draft is unique in that there may be several "right" answers no matter who we choose...there may be several wrong answers depending on scenarios and there can even be no-win scenarios as well...all things we may not know for several years (or ever).

Now is the time to go back and look at our mocks 2 and 3 years ago esp. now that its under the same, Baalke regime.

Thanks for the kind thoughts. I always take a look back, groan at the disasterous selections I would have made and celebrate the ones that worked out. As stated well before the draft, GMs are going to miss more than hit. The best ones simply miss less often. It is a humiliating experience for these guys, with all of their resources, to still see guys not pan out, when they were so sure each would be a huge part of the team and league.

Originally posted by nw9erfan:

Originally posted by theduke85:
Maybe his views are flawed, but putting his views out there every year like he does and taking this ridiculous criticism is pretty admirable. Maddog puts a lot of effort into these lists, and he spends as much time researching and analyzing as anyone. I think it's pretty courageous of him to speak his views, even when he disagrees with moves that we are making. Some people here just blindly slurp every move the front office makes. For him to be objective is a breath of fresh air.

You....are correct, sir! MD adds so much to the Zone with his work. He's probably better than 90% of the so-called "draft experts" out there and the Zone is lucky to have guys like him, AB, NCommand, and a few others (sorry if I've overlooked some of the other big contributors).

Further, the whole point of the Zone is to express opinions. That is what MD does...and his happens to be a very well-educated opinion. What's the problem?

Cheers!

Thanks for the props...IIRC, MD's initial issues were his "arrogance" and "inflexibility" to see anything outside his own convictions. That said, over the years, he's been more accepting of other viewpoints, tries to stay objective and be responsive to questions on items he's put a lot of time and research into. As long as he holds to his conviction while remaining objective and with no "attitude" tone, we should all at least respect his opinion and try to understand why he feels that way. Like I said before, this is a draft. An inexact science. There are SEVERAL right and wrong-scenarios and those scenarios increase when you have a Championship caliber team and coaching staff to develop these boys into men.

MD.. someone raised a good question earlier. How would your draft grade differ if the Niners had made NO trades and selected Tank with pick 31 and then Reid at 34?

Originally posted by AmpLee:
I know it's been mentioned, but when grading our draft, one must factor in Boldin and McCoy. Aside from that, while picking up an extra 3 next year is fantastic, it's hard to put that into a current grade when it will be used to grade next year's draft as a draftee.

MD, I appreciate your effort, however, I get the sense you still think of Baalke as inadequate/lucky. I think you pin yourself to your prognostications to the effect that it doesn't allow you to consider any other perspective. There's no denying you arguably know more about these players than anyone on this board, but there's also no denying that our braintrust knows a whole of a heck of a lot more than the collective of this entire board does. They are simply privy to information we are not. That being said, any ribbing is in good nature and given your penchant for bold predictions, I'm sure there will be some in the future when this draft turns into an A.

I did not add the value of traded picks for veterans. Some do, and I completely get it. I tend to base the grade simply on the players selected, the value at the pick, etc. Everyone has their own grading system.

As for Baalke, I think he has been very good at the draft. We disagree on many player personnel choices, but to even hit on the same player at the same pick twice in this draft, with Carradine and Patton, shows that the planets do align every once in awhile.

To me, Baalke is a bit of a gambler, and I tend to be more conservative.

As for information, there is so much stuff on the internet from a wide variety of sources that the only deficiency I have is medicals. Character concerns become public knowledge, through writers and social media, the ability to interview well can be seen in interviews done by TV stations and with local and national writers, and performance on the field is easy to examine. I think the draft is becoming much easier for people on the outside to examine and make decent judgment calls.

Originally posted by Rubberneck36:

Originally posted by BleedRednGold:

Originally posted by Rubberneck36:

Originally posted by BleedRednGold:
Time and time again you waste your time writing nonsense. I'm glad you're not our GM cause you would run us right into the ground straight into hell. Bottom line, you don't know S#%T!

That will cost you. Write something like that again and it will be your last day on the board. PM me if you dont understand.

Is this the Stanford Experiment all over again? Give nobody's some sense of power and they think they can do anything they want. Well if this is the last one ill make it count. I'll tell you as well you don't know s**t either. f**k you and the other jack ass that knows more about jack and s**t MadDog.

lol. How come I didnt see this. Thats awesome. Now he has something to tell mom at the dinner table tonight.

I still wonder how folks evaluate the secondary.