MadDog's Big 254 Board

Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
MD, few questions:

1) You have Kenyon Barner unranked. He's on the list, but no ranking. Squeezed between 136 and 137. I assume he's 137, and Watford gets bumped?
2) How do you feel about the CBs? If you had to assign your personal rankings, and not where you see them going, would Rhodes still trail Trufant? Would Alford be 6th?
3) What has caused Okafor's slide?
4) Same question as #2 for WRs. I've been open with my obsession with Hopkins. I still don't get how Allen and Patterson rank above him. He's just so smooth, natural, and instinctive out there!
5) Do you know much about Brandon Ford (the converted TE from Clemson). While watching Hopkins he stood out a number of times, and I'm pretty sure he's currently unranked. Any chance to watch him?

Thanks again for all the hard work!

He already answered #1. Check some of his responses

Originally posted by LieutKaffee:

Originally posted by 9erred:
I must be an idiot, because all of the players I want the Niners to draft you have from pick 45-60

Zach Ertz TE
Margus Hunt DE
Reid Safety LSU

The only head scratcher to me was Jonathan Franklin UCLA RB in the top 50...... I missed that one, I have him as a 5th rounder

I'm gonna be pretty mad if we draft any of those guys.

Harbaugh and company had interviews with all three... Which could mean nothing. Who Knows.

Reid is a ball hawking free safety, someone the niners need.
Hunt- Smiths replacement
Ertz- Walkers replacement, a TE who can block AND catch.

Who knows, like I said I am an idiot, so Baalke will not draft anyone I want.

Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
I like what you do, MD, but wanted to ask a few rather innocent questions.

Do you have ties to NFL scouts or teams? Or are you just an avid draft nut looking from outside in? If it's the latter, hey, that's fine. Most of us are. Just wanted to know. Do you watch a ridiculous amount of college ball? replay games to watch prospects well known or unknown? Or just combine all that you see and read from around the web to form your conclusions?

A combination of stuff. Have access to a couple of teams through friends in organizations and a friend with close ties through the NFL Network. Mostly on my own. I began this crazy journey a long time before meeting anyone, so I have seen patterns of how the draft plays out for almost 30 years. Although the league is evolving, the evaluation process is still similar in some respects.

I watch less ball than SunDevil, but still watch a lot. Very active in watching Bowl Action, Post Season practices/games, videos of players, and read avidly. I have strong opinions on players based on what I see, and rarely make a determination on a player unless I am certain. Sometimes I am right, and a lot of times wrong. That is the nature of the evaluation process. More times than not, people are wrong.

I spend a lot of time following nearly 1000 players, and it is really time consuming.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
I like what you do, MD, but wanted to ask a few rather innocent questions.

Do you have ties to NFL scouts or teams? Or are you just an avid draft nut looking from outside in? If it's the latter, hey, that's fine. Most of us are. Just wanted to know. Do you watch a ridiculous amount of college ball? replay games to watch prospects well known or unknown? Or just combine all that you see and read from around the web to form your conclusions?

A combination of stuff. Have access to a couple of teams through friends in organizations and a friend with close ties through the NFL Network. Mostly on my own. I began this crazy journey a long time before meeting anyone, so I have seen patterns of how the draft plays out for almost 30 years. Although the league is evolving, the evaluation process is still similar in some respects.

I watch less ball than SunDevil, but still watch a lot. Very active in watching Bowl Action, Post Season practices/games, videos of players, and read avidly. I have strong opinions on players based on what I see, and rarely make a determination on a player unless I am certain. Sometimes I am right, and a lot of times wrong. That is the nature of the evaluation process. More times than not, people are wrong.

I spend a lot of time following nearly 1000 players, and it is really time consuming.

Thanks for the honesty. Right or wrong, your perspective adds positively to the WZ.


p.s. - hey, wut up with having Mike Catapano so low? He had an awesome run at Princeton, and really opened some eyes with stellar workouts recently.

3rd rounder!!!! Say it be so!

Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
MD, few questions:

1) You have Kenyon Barner unranked. He's on the list, but no ranking. Squeezed between 136 and 137. I assume he's 137, and Watford gets bumped?
2) How do you feel about the CBs? If you had to assign your personal rankings, and not where you see them going, would Rhodes still trail Trufant? Would Alford be 6th?
3) What has caused Okafor's slide?
4) Same question as #2 for WRs. I've been open with my obsession with Hopkins. I still don't get how Allen and Patterson rank above him. He's just so smooth, natural, and instinctive out there!
5) Do you know much about Brandon Ford (the converted TE from Clemson). While watching Hopkins he stood out a number of times, and I'm pretty sure he's currently unranked. Any chance to watch him?

Thanks again for all the hard work!

My Excel Spreadsheet for the past two years is a nightmare to post on this board. Two years ago, I could copy and past my Excel and it would be in perfect rows. The past two years, when I copy and paste, it becomes one massive paragraph. I have to manually enter 254 times to make a nice column. So, just to clean this one a bit, I snuck Barner in between 136 and 137, since I didnt want to hit enter 254 times again. Watford was bumped from my board, that is true. If that makes sense. On my Excel it is clean.

I like the CB's. I think Milliner is NOT going to be a top 6, 8 or maybe top 10 pick, but somewhere in the 11-15 range. After him, Trufant should go pretty soon. Rhodes probably in that 18-26 region and that might be it for first rounders. A couple of the guys I really like outside the first round are: Webb, Alford and McFadden. I know that many teams want their 6' corner, but a lot of these 5'10' guys are going to be better overall players at the next level.

I think need trumps many things, so I see a slight slide for Okafor. I love the kid, so this is not my view of his future. Just think that a big run on DT, CB's, OL push him down the board a bit.

As for WR's, probably the most unpredictable position on the field for me to evaluate. To me, trying to make a certain evaluation of WR's is like herding cats. Good luck. I have Austin, Hopkins, Patton, Goodwin, and King as my top five right now on my BPA board for WR. Next would be Patterson.

Ford is a guy I consider a bubble draftee. I lean against him being picked, but he could slide into those late rounds. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Very solid campus workout and seems to be stacking on some weight. I am keeping an eye on him, that is for sure.

Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Thanks for the honesty. Right or wrong, your perspective adds positively to the WZ.


p.s. - hey, wut up with having Mike Catapano so low? He had an awesome run at Princeton, and really opened some eyes with stellar workouts recently.

3rd rounder!!!! Say it be so!

I have Catapano at 169. Superb campus workout. Really limited to a 43 DE role, which eliminates some teams from the mix. Good prospect with solid size/speed/strength combo. Still a project, but I think he has made himself some money this offseason. Much to like.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Thanks for the honesty. Right or wrong, your perspective adds positively to the WZ.


p.s. - hey, wut up with having Mike Catapano so low? He had an awesome run at Princeton, and really opened some eyes with stellar workouts recently.

3rd rounder!!!! Say it be so!

I have Catapano at 169. Superb campus workout. Really limited to a 43 DE role, which eliminates some teams from the mix. Good prospect with solid size/speed/strength combo. Still a project, but I think he has made himself some money this offseason. Much to like.

You don't feel he could eventually add lbs and be a Justin Smith type in 2-3 years?

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:

MD, few questions:

1) You have Kenyon Barner unranked. He's on the list, but no ranking. Squeezed between 136 and 137. I assume he's 137, and Watford gets bumped?
2) How do you feel about the CBs? If you had to assign your personal rankings, and not where you see them going, would Rhodes still trail Trufant? Would Alford be 6th?
3) What has caused Okafor's slide?
4) Same question as #2 for WRs. I've been open with my obsession with Hopkins. I still don't get how Allen and Patterson rank above him. He's just so smooth, natural, and instinctive out there!
5) Do you know much about Brandon Ford (the converted TE from Clemson). While watching Hopkins he stood out a number of times, and I'm pretty sure he's currently unranked. Any chance to watch him?

Thanks again for all the hard work!

My Excel Spreadsheet for the past two years is a nightmare to post on this board. Two years ago, I could copy and past my Excel and it would be in perfect rows. The past two years, when I copy and paste, it becomes one massive paragraph. I have to manually enter 254 times to make a nice column. So, just to clean this one a bit, I snuck Barner in between 136 and 137, since I didnt want to hit enter 254 times again. Watford was bumped from my board, that is true. If that makes sense. On my Excel it is clean.

I like the CB's. I think Milliner is NOT going to be a top 6, 8 or maybe top 10 pick, but somewhere in the 11-15 range. After him, Trufant should go pretty soon. Rhodes probably in that 18-26 region and that might be it for first rounders. A couple of the guys I really like outside the first round are: Webb, Alford and McFadden. I know that many teams want their 6' corner, but a lot of these 5'10' guys are going to be better overall players at the next level.

I think need trumps many things, so I see a slight slide for Okafor. I love the kid, so this is not my view of his future. Just think that a big run on DT, CB's, OL push him down the board a bit.

As for WR's, probably the most unpredictable position on the field for me to evaluate. To me, trying to make a certain evaluation of WR's is like herding cats. Good luck. I have Austin, Hopkins, Patton, Goodwin, and King as my top five right now on my BPA board for WR. Next would be Patterson.

Ford is a guy I consider a bubble draftee. I lean against him being picked, but he could slide into those late rounds. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Very solid campus workout and seems to be stacking on some weight. I am keeping an eye on him, that is for sure.

Thanks for the reply. Like you, I'm not huge on Patterson, and love the top 3 WRs you listed. Also a very big Alford fan (feel like he has elite instincts and rarely gets tested--a testament to keeping up with his WR even when you can't see him in a agame). As for Ford, I've also been paying attention. How often are players that are not at the combine drafted? I'd like him as a 7th rd pick (we have plenty of those!). One last Q...do you have a pick you're "hoping" the niners make?

Originally posted by SammyFrancisco:
Great work MadDog thanks!

Thing that jumps out at me most is Baccari Rambo in the 5th round. Looks good on youtube, why do you rank him so low?

I didn't think he would work out well at his Pro Day, and it looks like I was wrong. The initial time coming out just a few hours ago for Rambo was 4.50 and that is going to help his draft stock. I still don't think he cracks the top 100, but certainly more a fourth rounder than fifth.

Rambo will have to deal with teams who take him off the board for his suspension last year. Any time you are suspended for failing a drug test, and lose game time, some teams are going to lop you off the board right away. Others don't have such stringent off the field requirements (see Cincinnati Bengals).

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I loved Ballard and he was my draftee on my board last year. Johnson a totally different back. Much smaller. However, could end up productive at the next level. To me, he is a rotational guy. Ballard is a three down workhorse. He would be the future for Gore. Too bad he is not on the roster.

Are you sure?

Ballard is 5' 10'' 217 LB and Johnson is 5'9'' 213 LB. They seem pretty similar.

Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
Thanks for the reply. Like you, I'm not huge on Patterson, and love the top 3 WRs you listed. Also a very big Alford fan (feel like he has elite instincts and rarely gets tested--a testament to keeping up with his WR even when you can't see him in a agame). As for Ford, I've also been paying attention. How often are players that are not at the combine drafted? I'd like him as a 7th rd pick (we have plenty of those!). One last Q...do you have a pick you're "hoping" the niners make?

I believe about 1/5 of all players selected are non-combine invitees. So, it is a significant number.

There are a number of guys that I think are terrific players of value outside the first couple of rounds. I will highlight two. I hope the Niners take a long look at Nebraska RB Rex Burkhead. He is going to be a late round draftee, but has the size and strength and speed measurables to go much higher. The guy always falls forward after contact, and is a load.

Cornelius Washington is way underrated. He has the violent hands that snap OL backward. He is a guy that is going to surprise at the next level.

Finally, I will throw in one early rounder. Jonathan Cyprien is a stud. I thought he was crazy good at the Senior Bowl. Terrific all around game. Can cover well, hit, good instincts. I would be very pleased if the team picked him up at 31, he is that good.

Originally posted by Decima_Mas:
Are you sure?

Ballard is 5' 10'' 217 LB and Johnson is 5'9'' 213 LB. They seem pretty similar.

I have Johnson listed at his Pro Day at 5'6 6/8", 196 pounds. Ballard is listed by NFL.com at 5'10', 217.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I have Johnson listed at his Pro Day at 5'6 6/8", 196 pounds. Ballard is listed by NFL.com at 5'10', 217.

My bad you are right. I checked and he is really small.

Are you still high about Mike Gilleslee? I would love to see him in red and gold.

By contrat you don't seem a fan of Montee Ball. Am I right?

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Finally, I will throw in one early rounder. Jonathan Cyprien is a stud. I thought he was crazy good at the Senior Bowl. Terrific all around game. Can cover well, hit, good instincts. I would be very pleased if the team picked him up at 31, he is that good.

Who is your #1 safety regardless of value? Is it Vaccaro like most scouts, or do you go with Cyprien as the top prospect?

The reason I ask is that I, like you, am coming around to the idea of Cyprien at #31. But if Vaccaro is available at #29 like you predict, shouldn't we trade up and draft him instead? The cost would be tiny to get the #1 player at the position.

I want one of Vaccaro, Cyprien, or Thomas.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
Thanks for the reply. Like you, I'm not huge on Patterson, and love the top 3 WRs you listed. Also a very big Alford fan (feel like he has elite instincts and rarely gets tested--a testament to keeping up with his WR even when you can't see him in a agame). As for Ford, I've also been paying attention. How often are players that are not at the combine drafted? I'd like him as a 7th rd pick (we have plenty of those!). One last Q...do you have a pick you're "hoping" the niners make?

I believe about 1/5 of all players selected are non-combine invitees. So, it is a significant number.

There are a number of guys that I think are terrific players of value outside the first couple of rounds. I will highlight two. I hope the Niners take a long look at Nebraska RB Rex Burkhead. He is going to be a late round draftee, but has the size and strength and speed measurables to go much higher. The guy always falls forward after contact, and is a load.

Cornelius Washington is way underrated. He has the violent hands that snap OL backward. He is a guy that is going to surprise at the next level.

Finally, I will throw in one early rounder. Jonathan Cyprien is a stud. I thought he was crazy good at the Senior Bowl. Terrific all around game. Can cover well, hit, good instincts. I would be very pleased if the team picked him up at 31, he is that good.

The safety position in this years draft is a bit of a conundrum for me. It is obviously a high priority with Goldson's departure. Also, IMHO, the Niners need a significant upgrade at SS to help with pass coverage.

This years safety class is supposed to be deep, but IMHO (once again), it is not extremely top heavy. Due to the hole at FS, I could easily justify targeting a safety at #34. But I don't know if that will be the best value.

The three safeties that I like are:

Cyprien, Jonathan Florida International 2 6-0 217 4.64 38 1/2
4 seasons, 6 int, 365 tackles, 6 FF, 1 TD


Thomas, Phillip Fresno State 2-3 6-1 208 4.65 14 35 10'02"
3 seasons, 13 int, 178 tackles, 6 FF, 4 TD

Rambo, Bacarri Georgia 3 6-1 211 4.56 17
4 seasons, 16 int, 235 tackles, 6 FF, 3 TD

Speed is not the most important factor, but it is a bit of a factor. Based on measurables and productivity last season, I think Thomas is the best option. However, I do not think #34 is the best value for him. I would love to put the bulls eye on Cyprien's head at #34, but Thomas seems like a better ball hawk, which is what I believe the Niners need.

The fourth option is to try to convert a CB.

Amerson, *David North Carolina State 2 6-1 205 4.44 15 35 1/2 10'07"
3 seasons, 17 int, 177 tackles, 1 FF, 3 TD

Amerson has good FS size, he's got much better speed. Played safety in HS.

Bottom line, who is the best choice/value to be the Niners FS of the future?