MadDog49er Big 100 Board

Originally posted by IdentityCrisis:

Originally posted by IdentityCrisis:

Originally posted by IdentityCrisis:
MD would draft Moore in the second even if he isn't a really high need?

I'm convinced he will be a complete ballhawk in the league.

bump

haha no comment?

alright then

Maybe, maybe not. A lot will depend on whether the team decides it wants to re-sign Goldson and what the team thinks of Smith and Mays. I am not suggesting the team would go in that direction. I believe I have the Niners pegged for a CB, Curtis Brown, in the second round.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by IdentityCrisis:

Originally posted by IdentityCrisis:

Originally posted by IdentityCrisis:
MD would draft Moore in the second even if he isn't a really high need?

I'm convinced he will be a complete ballhawk in the league.

bump

haha no comment?

alright then

Maybe, maybe not. A lot will depend on whether the team decides it wants to re-sign Goldson and what the team thinks of Smith and Mays. I am not suggesting the team would go in that direction. I believe I have the Niners pegged for a CB, Curtis Brown, in the second round.

I think Moore is the ballhawking type of safety that makes talent more relevant than need.

and FS is still a need, just not as high. I guess I've got myself all worked up on him.

Originally posted by IdentityCrisis:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by IdentityCrisis:

Originally posted by IdentityCrisis:

Originally posted by IdentityCrisis:
MD would draft Moore in the second even if he isn't a really high need?

I'm convinced he will be a complete ballhawk in the league.

bump

haha no comment?

alright then

Maybe, maybe not. A lot will depend on whether the team decides it wants to re-sign Goldson and what the team thinks of Smith and Mays. I am not suggesting the team would go in that direction. I believe I have the Niners pegged for a CB, Curtis Brown, in the second round.

I think Moore is the ballhawking type of safety that makes talent more relevant than need.

and FS is still a need, just not as high. I guess I've got myself all worked up on him.

Cosigned. Its not like Mays or Smith OR Goldson have proven themselves enough that we should pass on a ballhawk like Moore because we have them.

Mad, between Von Miller and Robert Quinn, which one is best suited for the rushing OLB we been looking for?

MD.. Good work as always pulling your board together!! I am curious... has your opinion changed on Ponder??

In the Ponder bandwagon thread you posted that you weren't big on his NFL prospects.


On your board you have him at #60, or late second round. Is this because you feel that teams tend to over-value and reach for need or has he recently raised his game?

[ Edited by DaveWilcox on Feb 8, 2011 at 09:28:08 ]

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by 49erThrowback:

Originally posted by ishkabibel:
MadDog -- in your preamble you mention 49ers seem smitten with Von Miller. Do you get this info from a publication you could share with us, or through the resources you've developed over the years.

Only problem is that Arizona may be smitten as well. Unless they're stupid enough to take a QB at #5.

They probably will take a QB at #5, especially if it is the first one off the board. I fully expect that Gabbert will be their choice, if on the board at the time.

Several times AZ beat writers have stated that it is VERY unlikely that AZ goes QB in the 1st. ESPN's Sando, who has a very strong pulse on the NFC West, agrees

Originally posted by mayo49:
Mad, between Von Miller and Robert Quinn, which one is best suited for the rushing OLB we been looking for?

Quinn has the prototypical size to handle rush defense responsibilities and strength to get through the OT to the QB. But, he has yet to prove to scouts that he can drop in coverage. The Senior Bowl and campus workout will be huge, and he is a terrific athlete, so I expect a solid performance.

Miller was able to show scouts the ability to drop well into coverage, and was fluid in his movements. However, I'm not sold yet on Miller's ability, at 237, to handle run defense responsibilities. We know he can fly around the edge in pass rushing, but is he strong enough to bull rush OT's. The last thing we want is a one-trick pony.

Both players are outstanding, but have some question marks to answer before a final grade can be given, in my opinion. Can Miller stack on more weight? Can he show strength at the point of attack? Is Quinn a character concern? Can he play well in reverse?

Originally posted by DaveWilcox:
MD.. Good work as always pulling your board together!! I am curious... has your opinion changed on Ponder??

In the Ponder bandwagon thread you posted that you weren't big on his NFL prospects.


On your board you have him at #60, or late second round. Is this because you feel that teams tend to over-value and reach for need or has he recently raised his game?

I think he will be overvalued by teams who simply are not willing to risk waiting until the beginning of the third round to make their own team selection. I think someone will trade up from the third to get him in the late second.

I think Ponder has closed the gap on some QB's, such as Jake Locker and Andy Dalton. He just has a limited upside to his game, and that keeps him as a second or third tier draft selectee. I am not a big fan, at all. I see a backup in the league, at best.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by DaveWilcox:
MD.. Good work as always pulling your board together!! I am curious... has your opinion changed on Ponder??

In the Ponder bandwagon thread you posted that you weren't big on his NFL prospects.


On your board you have him at #60, or late second round. Is this because you feel that teams tend to over-value and reach for need or has he recently raised his game?

I think he will be overvalued by teams who simply are not willing to risk waiting until the beginning of the third round to make their own team selection. I think someone will trade up from the third to get him in the late second.

I think Ponder has closed the gap on some QB's, such as Jake Locker and Andy Dalton. He just has a limited upside to his game, and that keeps him as a second or third tier draft selectee. I am not a big fan, at all. I see a backup in the league, at best.

GFY

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by mayo49:
Mad, between Von Miller and Robert Quinn, which one is best suited for the rushing OLB we been looking for?

Quinn has the prototypical size to handle rush defense responsibilities and strength to get through the OT to the QB. But, he has yet to prove to scouts that he can drop in coverage. The Senior Bowl and campus workout will be huge, and he is a terrific athlete, so I expect a solid performance.

Miller was able to show scouts the ability to drop well into coverage, and was fluid in his movements. However, I'm not sold yet on Miller's ability, at 237, to handle run defense responsibilities. We know he can fly around the edge in pass rushing, but is he strong enough to bull rush OT's. The last thing we want is a one-trick pony.

Both players are outstanding, but have some question marks to answer before a final grade can be given, in my opinion. Can Miller stack on more weight? Can he show strength at the point of attack? Is Quinn a character concern? Can he play well in reverse?

Just to play devil's advocate here, in today's NFL, how important is it really to be all that stout against the run at all? The power run game is all but dead and I don't see that trending back, the rules have turned the NFL in to an AFL look alike with better athletes. Look at the last few SB champs, then look at our team, one of the best against the run every year, doing squat in the win column. Not saying I'm more for one player vs another, but to me, if you are an elite PR and can drop and cover a little, that's pretty much good enough.

Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by 49erThrowback:

Originally posted by ishkabibel:
MadDog -- in your preamble you mention 49ers seem smitten with Von Miller. Do you get this info from a publication you could share with us, or through the resources you've developed over the years.

Only problem is that Arizona may be smitten as well. Unless they're stupid enough to take a QB at #5.

They probably will take a QB at #5, especially if it is the first one off the board. I fully expect that Gabbert will be their choice, if on the board at the time.

Several times AZ beat writers have stated that it is VERY unlikely that AZ goes QB in the 1st. ESPN's Sando, who has a very strong pulse on the NFC West, agrees

There will be so many smoke and mirrors the next two months that it will keep people's heads spinning. More than likely, the team will select a QB or OLB. So many variables. Gabbert's and Newton's campus workouts might be the key to the draft for the first round. If they throw the ball well, then teams in the top ten will have to take a serious look. The last thing a franchise wants to do is pass on a franchise QB for a talented, but less-impactful position. The Browns made that choice a few years ago, and even though they landed a terrific center, in Alex Mack (who will appear in his first Pro Bowl) by trading back, they gave up the rights to Mark Sanchez. I'm sure they wouldn't make that same choice a second time, if they had the chance.

Just like in the NBA draft, if you have the choice between a talented big man, and talented small man, you go big. The same applies with the QB position in the NFL draft. So, the QB workouts will be massive.

Originally posted by TX9R:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by mayo49:
Mad, between Von Miller and Robert Quinn, which one is best suited for the rushing OLB we been looking for?

Quinn has the prototypical size to handle rush defense responsibilities and strength to get through the OT to the QB. But, he has yet to prove to scouts that he can drop in coverage. The Senior Bowl and campus workout will be huge, and he is a terrific athlete, so I expect a solid performance.

Miller was able to show scouts the ability to drop well into coverage, and was fluid in his movements. However, I'm not sold yet on Miller's ability, at 237, to handle run defense responsibilities. We know he can fly around the edge in pass rushing, but is he strong enough to bull rush OT's. The last thing we want is a one-trick pony.

Both players are outstanding, but have some question marks to answer before a final grade can be given, in my opinion. Can Miller stack on more weight? Can he show strength at the point of attack? Is Quinn a character concern? Can he play well in reverse?

Just to play devil's advocate here, in today's NFL, how important is it really to be all that stout against the run at all? The power run game is all but dead and I don't see that trending back, the rules have turned the NFL in to an AFL look alike with better athletes. Look at the last few SB champs, then look at our team, one of the best against the run every year, doing squat in the win column. Not saying I'm more for one player vs another, but to me, if you are an elite PR and can drop and cover a little, that's pretty much good enough.

Very fair question. Players like Miller love to run free, so he'd love to do two things: Rush the QB, and cover the backside of the field on a running play. So, teams simply line up and run right at him. If he is not strong enough to handle OT's who lock onto him, then that would be the strategy used to mitigate the solid points of his game.

I think if you look at the best 3-4 OLB's in the game, they are all stout enough against the run to make them well-rounded players. If I am Miller's trainer, I advise him to stack on 5 pounds in the next month, and focus on strength (bench press) even if it mean skipping running the forty and performing in on-field drills. Getting over 240 pounds and showing strength in the bench press could mean millions for him.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by TX9R:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by mayo49:
Mad, between Von Miller and Robert Quinn, which one is best suited for the rushing OLB we been looking for?

Quinn has the prototypical size to handle rush defense responsibilities and strength to get through the OT to the QB. But, he has yet to prove to scouts that he can drop in coverage. The Senior Bowl and campus workout will be huge, and he is a terrific athlete, so I expect a solid performance.

Miller was able to show scouts the ability to drop well into coverage, and was fluid in his movements. However, I'm not sold yet on Miller's ability, at 237, to handle run defense responsibilities. We know he can fly around the edge in pass rushing, but is he strong enough to bull rush OT's. The last thing we want is a one-trick pony.

Both players are outstanding, but have some question marks to answer before a final grade can be given, in my opinion. Can Miller stack on more weight? Can he show strength at the point of attack? Is Quinn a character concern? Can he play well in reverse?

Just to play devil's advocate here, in today's NFL, how important is it really to be all that stout against the run at all? The power run game is all but dead and I don't see that trending back, the rules have turned the NFL in to an AFL look alike with better athletes. Look at the last few SB champs, then look at our team, one of the best against the run every year, doing squat in the win column. Not saying I'm more for one player vs another, but to me, if you are an elite PR and can drop and cover a little, that's pretty much good enough.

Very fair question. Players like Miller love to run free, so he'd love to do two things: Rush the QB, and cover the backside of the field on a running play. So, teams simply line up and run right at him. If he is not strong enough to handle OT's who lock onto him, then that would be the strategy used to mitigate the solid points of his game.

I think if you look at the best 3-4 OLB's in the game, they are all stout enough against the run to make them well-rounded players. If I am Miller's trainer, I advise him to stack on 5 pounds in the next month, and focus on strength (bench press) even if it mean skipping running the forty and performing in on-field drills. Getting over 240 pounds and showing strength in the bench press could mean millions for him.

Nobody drafts Von Miller to be stout against the run, which he is btw, they draft him to get double digit sacks. You give me 12-15 sacks every year i could give 2 shizz whether they can be stout vs the run. Thats what patrick willis and takeo spikes are for.

No one is gonna give a ish about 5 or even 10 pounds. At the end of the day it's meaningless. Thats why teams have nutritionists. Von clearly has the frame to put on another 15-20 lbs if a team wanted him to. GM's know that.

And bench is irrelevant to being a pass rusher. See: jared allen's 13 reps.

It's about ankle flexion, leverage, technique, speed, and fast twitch muscles.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Since it is a slow week in the world of the NFL Draft, I thought I'd throw out my first Big Board of the year, covering the first 100 picks, roughly the first three rounds of the draft (aka Day One and Day Two of the draft).

This Big Board will expand to a full draft board down the road with my projection of where players will be selected. This is NOT a draft ranking, but the general area where I see players selected. The NFL combine will surely alter the idea of where individuals will be chosen. This board projects beyond the combine (Kaepernick will run extremely well and should display good arm strength, hence the movement on my board, in advance, to the middle second round). Derrick Locke should roast the track, so I see him as a third rounder. I project Torrey Smith a round higher than others, but once again based on the prediction that his 40 time will be eye-popping. And, I expect JJ Watt will really impress in drills, showing outstanding mobility for a big man, elevating his stock to a high level. I could go on for virtually every player, but will let the board discuss their thoughts.

If you believe there is a player I completely missed the boat on, either through omission or placement (too high or low), please feel free to comment.

Have fun! Cheers!

One final note: I think the Niners will eventually draft one of these five players with their #7 pick, in this order: Von Miller (the team appears to be smitten with him), Blaine Gabbert, Prince Amukamara, Robert Quinn, and Cameron Jordan.

If I was a betting man, the team will select Miller in the first, the highest CB on their board in the second (Curtis Brown, Aaron Williams, etc.), and trade up (using their third and one of their fourth rounders) into the late second round to pick up a QB (Dalton, Ponder, etc.).

2011 NFL Draft 255 Big Board
Pick Player School Position
1 Nick Fairley Auburn DT
2 Da'Quan Bowers Clemson DE
3 Patrick Peterson LSU CB
4 AJ Green Georgia WR
5 Blaine Gabbert Missouri QB
6 Marcell Dareus Alabama DT
7 Von Miller Texas A&M OLB
8 Robert Quinn North Carolina DE
9 Cameron Jordan Cal DE/DT
10 Cam Newton Auburn QB
11 Prince Amukamara Nebraska CB
12 Ryan Mallett Arkansas QB
13 JJ Watt Wisconsin DE/DT
14 Julio Jones Alabama WR
15 Mark Ingram Alabama RB
16 Brandon Harris Miami CB
17 Ryan Kerrigan Purdue DE
18 Stephen Paea Oregon St DT
19 Torrey Smith Maryland WR
20 Tyron Smith USC OT
21 Nate Solder Colorado OT
22 Gabe Carimi Wisconsin OT
23 Justin Houston Georgia OLB
24 Derek Sherrod Mississippi St OT
25 Jonathan Baldwin Pittsburgh WR
26 Mike Pouncey Florida C
27 Anthony Castonzo Boston College OT
28 Cameron Heyward Ohio State DE/DT
29 Adrian Clayborn Iowa DE/DT
30 Jimmy Smith Colorado CB
31 Akeem Ayers UCLA OLB
32 Kyle Rudolph Notre Dame TE
33 Aldon Smith Missouri DE
34 Corey Liuget Illinois DT
35 Ryan Williams Virginia Tech RB
36 Mikel LeShoure Illinois RB
37 Stefan Wisniewski Penn State C
38 Jerrel Jernigan Troy WR
39 Phil Taylor Baylor DT
40 Jake Locker Washington QB
41 Aaron Williams Texas CB
42 Leonard Hankerson Miami WR
43 Titus Young Boise St WR
44 Christian Ballard Iowa DE
45 Curtis Brown Texas CB
46 Martez Wilson Illinois LB
47 Colin Kaepernick Nevada QB
48 Ben Ijalana Villanova OT/OG
49 Rahim Moore UCLA S
50 Jalil Brown Colorado CB
51 Marvin Austin North Carolina DT
52 Quinton Carter Oklahoma S
53 Allen Bailey Miami DE
54 Kendall Hunter Oklahoma St RB
55 Daniel Thomas Kansas St RB
56 Lance Kendricks Wisconsin TE
57 Drake Nevis LSU DT
58 Andy Dalton TCU QB
59 Davon House New Mexico CB
60 Christian Ponder Florida State QB
61 John Moffitt Wisconsin G/C
62 Bruce Carter North Carolina LB
63 Johnny Patrick Louisville CB
64 Rodney Hudson Florida State G/C
65 Mason Foster Washington OLB
66 Jordan Todman Connecticut RB
67 Kendric Burney North Carolina CB
68 James Carpenter Alabama OT
69 Danny Watkins Baylor G/C
70 Jurrell Casey USC DT
71 Kenrick Ellis Hampton DT
72 DJ Williams Arkansas TE
73 DeAndre McDaniel Clemson S
74 Lawrence Wilson Connecticut OLB
75 Jerrell Powe Mississippi DT
76 Marcus Cannon TCU OT/OG
77 Dontay Moch Nevada OLB
78 Ahmad Black Florida S
79 Brandon Burton Utah CB
80 DeMarco Murray Oklahoma RB
81 Quan Sturdivant North Carolina LB
82 Brooks Reed Arizona DE
83 Curtis Marsh Utah St CB
84 Sam Acho Texas DE
85 Deleone Carter Syracuse RB
86 Shane Vereen Cal RB
87 Luke Stocker Tennessee TE
88 Pat Devlin Delaware QB
89 Muhammad Wilkerson Temple DT
90 Ras-I Dowling Virginia CB
91 Randall Cobb Kentucky WR
92 Kelvin Sheppard LSU ILB
93 Colin McCarthy Miami ILB
94 Sione Fua Stanford DT
95 Shareece Wright USC CB
96 Derrick Locke Kentucky RB
97 Tandon Doss Indiana WR
98 Rashad Carmichael Virginia CB
99 Jabaal Sheard Pittsburgh DE
100 Pernell McPhee Mississippi St DE

One last final note: After watching and grading the Senior Bowl game, I thought the best game performances go to: Von Miller, Ryan Kerrigan, Leonard Hankerson, Sam Acho, Kendric Burney, Curtis Brown. I primarily focused on the OL, and graded these players as best: John Moffitt (brilliantly consistent); James Carpenter, Derek Sherrod, Jake Kirkpatrick, Rodney Hudson. Shockingly, a couple of the players who had solid practices really struggled in this game (the practices mean a LOT more...so take it with a grain of salt): Nate Solder (looked sluggish) and Danny Watkins (graded as a street free agent. He had a terrific first series, and then was absolutely horrible the rest of the game...it was UGLY..missed blocks, falling on the ground, holding call, YIKES!!!).

THoughts on Bilal Powell (RB) from Louisville - I thought he was clearly the most impressive RB in mobile and could see him coming off the board in the 3rd or 4th. Would love to grab him to replace Westbrook

Originally posted by SWAGG-ER:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by TX9R:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by mayo49:
Mad, between Von Miller and Robert Quinn, which one is best suited for the rushing OLB we been looking for?

Quinn has the prototypical size to handle rush defense responsibilities and strength to get through the OT to the QB. But, he has yet to prove to scouts that he can drop in coverage. The Senior Bowl and campus workout will be huge, and he is a terrific athlete, so I expect a solid performance.

Miller was able to show scouts the ability to drop well into coverage, and was fluid in his movements. However, I'm not sold yet on Miller's ability, at 237, to handle run defense responsibilities. We know he can fly around the edge in pass rushing, but is he strong enough to bull rush OT's. The last thing we want is a one-trick pony.

Both players are outstanding, but have some question marks to answer before a final grade can be given, in my opinion. Can Miller stack on more weight? Can he show strength at the point of attack? Is Quinn a character concern? Can he play well in reverse?

Just to play devil's advocate here, in today's NFL, how important is it really to be all that stout against the run at all? The power run game is all but dead and I don't see that trending back, the rules have turned the NFL in to an AFL look alike with better athletes. Look at the last few SB champs, then look at our team, one of the best against the run every year, doing squat in the win column. Not saying I'm more for one player vs another, but to me, if you are an elite PR and can drop and cover a little, that's pretty much good enough.

Very fair question. Players like Miller love to run free, so he'd love to do two things: Rush the QB, and cover the backside of the field on a running play. So, teams simply line up and run right at him. If he is not strong enough to handle OT's who lock onto him, then that would be the strategy used to mitigate the solid points of his game.

I think if you look at the best 3-4 OLB's in the game, they are all stout enough against the run to make them well-rounded players. If I am Miller's trainer, I advise him to stack on 5 pounds in the next month, and focus on strength (bench press) even if it mean skipping running the forty and performing in on-field drills. Getting over 240 pounds and showing strength in the bench press could mean millions for him.

Nobody drafts Von Miller to be stout against the run, which he is btw, they draft him to get double digit sacks. You give me 12-15 sacks every year i could give 2 shizz whether they can be stout vs the run. Thats what patrick willis and takeo spikes are for.

No one is gonna give a ish about 5 or even 10 pounds. At the end of the day it's meaningless. Thats why teams have nutritionists. Von clearly has the frame to put on another 15-20 lbs if a team wanted him to. GM's know that.

And bench is irrelevant to being a pass rusher. See: jared allen's 13 reps.

It's about ankle flexion, leverage, technique, speed, and fast twitch muscles.

Putting on 20lbs is not as easy as you make it sound. His speed could be diminished by adding that much weight. Everybody's body is different and has a target weight that usually holds with normal circumstances. That's why 6'1 WR's weight 210 and 6'1 LB's weight 240, its what their body can hold without losing size over time. If you really think Miller will put on 20lbs of lean muscle because of a nutritionist, maintain that weight through a season, and not lose any athletic ability then God bless you....but your wrong. Expecting him to play a full season at 257 and not lose a step is ridiculous. At best he could add 10lbs of comfortable lean muscle and stay mobile.