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Take MJ out of the 90's, which star (of Today's game) fits best?

And another thing, folk then knew how to play the game because they were grown men and they went to college for 4 years! Babies weren't in the league not knowing basketball fundamentals like we have now. You got guards not being able to shoot open jumpers or knock down FTs and bigs not knowing simple post moves like Griffin and Dwight Howard. Folk coming to the league unprepared nowadays! Like I said, I grew up in the culture (not the NBA) not just observing it from what I thought it was! It is different now but MJ would absolutely dominate today. Just watch the links I have posted and don't forget to see Hakeem as well
Originally posted by StOnEy333:
It's clearly the Kobe of yesteryear. Same body type. Same ferocious D. Same killer fade away jumper. Same ability to drive to the basket (when I say 'same', it's more like very comparable). I'm not here to say Kobe was better than MJ. I'm here to answer the question of the thread and clearly it's Kobe that fits in MJ's spot the best. Would Kobe have led the bulls in multiple 3-peats? Possibly. He still would have had Phil at the helm and an amazing cast of support players.



Now imagine MJ on the Kobe/Shaq Lakers instead of Kobe. You think MJ would share the ball with Shaq?

You can make an argument that Kobe was as good a player as Jordan. Kobe did everything Jordan could do and added to it.
Originally posted by 4ML:
Oh yes, the dumbest stat ever - 6-0 in the Finals or unbeaten in SuperBowl. That stat holds meaning only if you've won every single year. According to this ridiculous stat - it is better to be 3rd, 4th, 5th or last than be 2nd. lol

Jordan couldn't get out of 1st freaking round without having Pippen next to him.

You mad bro?
Originally posted by 4ML:
I wonder how much street ball Gregg Popovich has played.

I don't know but I do know that his Spurs champions would have no chance vs 90s Bulls or Rockets. Hakeem would cream Tim Duncan
Originally posted by Pillbusta:
Originally posted by 4ML:
Oh yes, the dumbest stat ever - 6-0 in the Finals or unbeaten in SuperBowl. That stat holds meaning only if you've won every single year. According to this ridiculous stat - it is better to be 3rd, 4th, 5th or last than be 2nd. lol

Jordan couldn't get out of 1st freaking round without having Pippen next to him.

You mad bro?

Not mad at all...but that stat is bogus. Like I said - it's better to finish last than 2nd according to that stat.
Originally posted by 4ML:
You can make an argument that Kobe was as good a player as Jordan. Kobe did everything Jordan could do and added to it.

You can but you would lose. Without Jordan there is no Kobe as you know him and he added nothing to it. He replicated Jordan and he came close but not quite! He is not the same guy as Mike! Phil Jackson ended this debate long ago. He simply said what I saw with my own eyes and knew all along. I don't know everything but I know what I know!
Originally posted by Pillbusta:
Originally posted by Negrodamus:
Originally posted by StOnEy333:
Now imagine MJ on the Kobe/Shaq Lakers instead of Kobe. You think MJ would share the ball with Shaq?

YES. and that's an EMPHATIC YES. ask Jon Paxon/Steve Kerr. there were games where Jordan and Pip had 40+ games. one thing is clear though MJ made folks around him infinite folds better. did he get his....most def but noway in hell did he run folks out of town. matter of fact it's been said he made it clear to upper management that he wasn't going to comeback if Phil and Scottie weren't coming back

in your boy Kobe's case it was beef as usual. he may say I won't come be back if Phil is not back but he sure wouldn't include Shaq in that conversation.

You ar eright MJ would share the ball with Shaq but MJ would have been the leading scorer both regular season and playoffs. He was simply too explosive. Dude was a 4.3 forty 48 inch vertical hella strong dude!

most definitely MJ would be the leading scorer but Shaq would be close to 30+ plus scorer himself.
Originally posted by Pillbusta:
Originally posted by 4ML:
I wonder how much street ball Gregg Popovich has played.

I don't know but I do know that his Spurs champions would have no chance vs 90s Bulls or Rockets. Hakeem would cream Tim Duncan

Totally missed my point. Pop has always over-achieved with his teams. He is one of the greatest coaches of all time, if not the greatest and he didn't play street-ball basketball. You don't need to be a player - to analyze the game or coach the game.

As far as Hakeem creaming Tim Duncan - I highly doubt that. Both were great players and it would be fun to see them go at each other. I'm sure some days Hakeem would have gotten the better of Duncan and some days Duncan have Hakeem's number.
Originally posted by 4ML:
Originally posted by Pillbusta:
Originally posted by 4ML:
Oh yes, the dumbest stat ever - 6-0 in the Finals or unbeaten in SuperBowl. That stat holds meaning only if you've won every single year. According to this ridiculous stat - it is better to be 3rd, 4th, 5th or last than be 2nd. lol

Jordan couldn't get out of 1st freaking round without having Pippen next to him.

You mad bro?

Not mad at all...but that stat is bogus. Like I said - it's better to finish last than 2nd according to that stat.

Ain't nothing wrong with getting to the finals but there is a big difference in winning them. MJ won them all! Once he hit his peak, he destroyed all comers. And yes, Pippen was a G! MJ, Pip, Ron Harper and Rodman locked down 1-4 and they rotated the bigs and used all 15 fouls to take care of the 5. MJ needed his help but he still couldn't hide. Especially after the first round of the playoffs during their second 3 peat. Bulls beat DC 3-0 but Pip strained his back. Pip never was the same guy after that and he carried that injury the rest of his career so MJ had to be the driving force offensively the rest of the 3 peat. Matter of fact he got a ton of scoring punch from Toni Kukoc after that.
Originally posted by Pillbusta:
Originally posted by 4ML:
You can make an argument that Kobe was as good a player as Jordan. Kobe did everything Jordan could do and added to it.

You can but you would lose. Without Jordan there is no Kobe as you know him and he added nothing to it. He replicated Jordan and he came close but not quite! He is not the same guy as Mike! Phil Jackson ended this debate long ago. He simply said what I saw with my own eyes and knew all along. I don't know everything but I know what I know!

You talk like Skip Bayless. No offense but he makes similar arguments. How could you possibly know Hakeem would cream Tim Duncan or without Jordan there is no Kobe? lol

...and Phil Jackson is a great coach and his words have value but he was too close to the situation to not be biased.
[ Edited by 4ML on Apr 9, 2014 at 9:51 PM ]
Originally posted by 4ML:
Originally posted by Pillbusta:
Originally posted by 4ML:
I wonder how much street ball Gregg Popovich has played.

I don't know but I do know that his Spurs champions would have no chance vs 90s Bulls or Rockets. Hakeem would cream Tim Duncan

Totally missed my point. Pop has always over-achieved with his teams. He is one of the greatest coaches of all time, if not the greatest and he didn't play street-ball basketball. You don't need to be a player - to analyze the game or coach the game.

As far as Hakeem creaming Tim Duncan - I highly doubt that. Both were great players and it would be fun to see them go at each other. I'm sure some days Hakeem would have gotten the better of Duncan and some days Duncan have Hakeem's number.

How close did you watch Hakeem? Dream had more speed power stamina and skill than Tim Duncan. He was both the offensive and defensive fulcrum for his club. Tim Duncan would have looked like a roaming klutz matched up vs Hakeem. Tim Duncan would have been owned by Dream, Ewing and Shaq and he was owned by Shaq now that I am thinking about it when Shaq was in shape. Dream would have crushed TD. Swimming is good for stamina but soccer is chief! Dream didn't have to sit out half the season to rest for the playoffs! Duncan had played the 94 NYK he would have gotten punked!
Originally posted by Pillbusta:
Originally posted by 4ML:
You can make an argument that Kobe was as good a player as Jordan. Kobe did everything Jordan could do and added to it.

You can but you would lose. Without Jordan there is no Kobe as you know him and he added nothing to it. He replicated Jordan and he came close but not quite! He is not the same guy as Mike! Phil Jackson ended this debate long ago. He simply said what I saw with my own eyes and knew all along. I don't know everything but I know what I know!

LOL. Everything? hmm not sure about that

I recall vividly after the D. Piston's had beaten the Bulls in '90 ECF. MJ thought he should and could will his way to victory. He got his but he took a beating both physically, mentally and emotionally. People started wondering if he could ever lead his teams to a championship. Not the way he conducted up to that moment. ball hogging and not deferring to teammates. always wanting to take the last shot. It was that defeat in '90 when a light bulb went of in MJ's head.

The entire team needed toughening up. During that off-season he enlisted Pip to get in the gym and put on muscle mass. no more purely relying on athleticism to just get by. The minute MJ got Scottie and Horace to buy into his regimen MJ knew the rest of the team would follow. Even got the team to start eating healthy. That whole summer all they did was practice on everything. and the rest is well as they say history. during the ECF of '91 D. Pistons were shell shocked at how well MJ was playing while having the entire team involved. thus leading to Isaiah and the bad boys to walk off the court without shaking hands. MJ returned that favor by freezing IT out of the Olympics of '92. Now that's just a glimpse at what MJ did as the leader of the squad to get his teammates better.

Am not sure if Kobe did things like that to improve his surroundings. I could be wrong and perhaps one of the Laker fans can direct me to where Kobe perhaps did do such things. but then if he did it surely never materialized on the court.

HOF player. no doubt. but that's where his greatness ends.
Originally posted by 4ML:
Originally posted by Pillbusta:
Originally posted by 4ML:
You can make an argument that Kobe was as good a player as Jordan. Kobe did everything Jordan could do and added to it.

You can but you would lose. Without Jordan there is no Kobe as you know him and he added nothing to it. He replicated Jordan and he came close but not quite! He is not the same guy as Mike! Phil Jackson ended this debate long ago. He simply said what I saw with my own eyes and knew all along. I don't know everything but I know what I know!

You talk like Skip Bayless. No offense but he makes similar arguments. How could you possibly know Hakeem would cream Tim Duncan or without Jordan there is no Kobe? lol

...and Phil Jackson is a great coach and his words have value but he was too close to the situation to not be biased.

Man you can't offend me with Skip Bayless talk because Skip ain't lived the life I've lived. He doesn't know what he is talking about because he hasn't been around roundball like I have. I know my experience and I know what I know whether you want to believe it or not! I ain't offended because I refrain from judging you guys because I don't know what you've seen but I know what I have and I am fully secure within myself and I know I don't know everything but I know what I know!
Originally posted by Pillbusta:
Ain't nothing wrong with getting to the finals but there is a big difference in winning them. MJ won them all! Once he hit his peak, he destroyed all comers. And yes, Pippen was a G! MJ, Pip, Ron Harper and Rodman locked down 1-4 and they rotated the bigs and used all 15 fouls to take care of the 5. MJ needed his help but he still couldn't hide. Especially after the first round of the playoffs during their second 3 peat. Bulls beat DC 3-0 but Pip strained his back. Pip never was the same guy after that and he carried that injury the rest of his career so MJ had to be the driving force offensively the rest of the 3 peat. Matter of fact he got a ton of scoring punch from Toni Kukoc after that.

He lost in the playoffs just like everyone else. Had he never lost in the playoffs - then your argument is legit. He also lost in the playoffs in 94-95. I'm not sure why his fans forget that
Originally posted by Pillbusta:
Man you can't offend me with Skip Bayless talk because Skip ain't lived the life I've lived. He doesn't know what he is talking about because he hasn't been around roundball like I have. I know my experience and I know what I know whether you want to believe it or not! I ain't offended because I refrain from judging you guys because I don't know what you've seen but I know what I have and I am fully secure within myself and I know I don't know everything but I know what I know!

I believe you. I have no reason not to. I just disagree with you on your opinion about Jordan and the 90s. The talent pool is a lot bigger today than it ever was and therefore there is more talent in the NBA from around the World. The teams are deeper, the teams are smarter, and coaches use advanced metrics to specifically target weaknesses of players. Players from previous generations never went through that. IMO - the game is only going to get better 10 years from now.

Not to mention - franchise players have a LOT more responsibilities off the court than they ever did and still perform at their peak.