**LeBron James Off-season Thread**

LeBron does make both his teams and its players around him better. This is why he has won multiple MVPs. I am not however buying that he left MIA because he wanted to return home to CLE. He left for CLE because after careful study of rosters, cap space and the ability to form and shape a roster based off current assets James and his associates concluded CLE was the best bet. As a result he carefully crafted a letter to distribute to the media and he took control of his message making him look like some sort of hero returning home to drag CLE from the depths up to the heights of the NBA. This was brilliant by him and his marketers and I predict that his "brand" will be on the uptick steadily over the course of these 2 years but I am not fooled to think that he went home for the sake of CLE, he went home for the sake of himself and his own legacy. I have no problem with that because it is the smart thing to do and it is home and the team that drafted him. I just know that CLE was gifted 3 of the 4 number one picks since LBJ went to MIA and I find that very odd. LeBron saw that and the fact that CLE still has another top 10 protected pick from MIA in 2015 due to the sign and trade executed to obtain LBJ in 2010 so he simply left for greener pastures. Good business move for him and brilliantly played by him and his team but it ain't because he is trying to save CLE. His loyalty is as it should be to himself!

Originally posted by Pillbusta:
LeBron does make both his teams and its players around him better. This is why he has won multiple MVPs. I am not however buying that he left MIA because he wanted to return home to CLE. He left for CLE because after careful study of rosters, cap space and the ability to form and shape a roster based off current assets James and his associates concluded CLE was the best bet. As a result he carefully crafted a letter to distribute to the media and he took control of his message making him look like some sort of hero returning home to drag CLE from the depths up to the heights of the NBA. This was brilliant by him and his marketers and I predict that his "brand" will be on the uptick steadily over the course of these 2 years but I am not fooled to think that he went home for the sake of CLE, he went home for the sake of himself and his own legacy. I have no problem with that because it is the smart thing to do and it is home and the team that drafted him. I just know that CLE was gifted 3 of the 4 number one picks since LBJ went to MIA and I find that very odd. LeBron saw that and the fact that CLE still has another top 10 protected pick from MIA in 2015 due to the sign and trade executed to obtain LBJ in 2010 so he simply left for greener pastures. Good business move for him and brilliantly played by him and his team but it ain't because he is trying to save CLE. His loyalty is as it should be to himself!

I agree to a point. I think he could have gone to Cleveland a year from now, or even 2 years from now - and that would have been a better business/career decision. I think Miami still gives him a better chance to win right now. But yes, in the long run - Cleveland is better depending on how quickly Wiggins can develop and Kyrie can mature. Let's not forget - Cleveland looked better without Kyrie than with Kyrie in several games.

Coming home was the no. 1 reason. His ppl have been talkin' about going back to Cleveland for couple years now. But yes, if Cleveland was a complete mess with no future at all - he wouldn't have gone back. He'd be like f**k home lol - I ain't playing with mediocre players making 14M a year. The fact that they're in somewhat of a decent position and have the tools to upgrade their roster without gutting it is a huge plus and Lebron sees that. No question that's a big factor.

But, he always knew some day he would come back. It makes sense to do it now to help the team grow into a contender. Strictly business wise - he would have been better off doing it in 2 years.

I think Houston and Suns were better positioned to win right now as well and they have a young nucleus that'd be good for next 4-5 years as well. So, the fact that Cleveland was his home-town (and he felt bad bout the way he left) was the no.1 factor why he came back imho.

Originally posted by 4ML:

Anyway...lol not worth it.

Apparently scoring more ppg means you're better. Carmelo is the 2nd best player in the NBA after Durant lol

I'm pretty sure Wade himself would admit that he wasn't the best SG in the league over Kobe at any point. lol



But whatevs. No point in going in circles. lol

Originally posted by 4ML:
I agree to a point. I think he could have gone to Cleveland a year from now, or even 2 years from now - and that would have been a better business/career decision. I think Miami still gives him a better chance to win right now. But yes, in the long run - Cleveland is better depending on how quickly Wiggins can develop and Kyrie can mature. Let's not forget - Cleveland looked better without Kyrie than with Kyrie in several games.

Coming home was the no. 1 reason. His ppl have been talkin' about going back to Cleveland for couple years now. But yes, if Cleveland was a complete mess with no future at all - he wouldn't have gone back. He'd be like f**k home lol - I ain't playing with mediocre players making 14M a year. The fact that they're in somewhat of a decent position and have the tools to upgrade their roster without gutting it is a huge plus and Lebron sees that. No question that's a big factor.

But, he always knew some day he would come back. It makes sense to do it now to help the team grow into a contender. Strictly business wise - he would have been better off doing it in 2 years.

I think Houston and Suns were better positioned to win right now as well and they have a young nucleus that'd be good for next 4-5 years as well. So, the fact that Cleveland was his home-town (and he felt bad bout the way he left) was the no.1 factor why he came back imho.

You could be right. It is just that I tend to always think from the mind of what would I do and that can cloud my outlook on others who just might be a little less selfish than I am. In my eye LeBron is looking for the best fit to win longterm and build his brand so that one day he can increase his earning potential well after ball just like MJ who now happens to be a billionaire. Maybe going home was number 1 in his mind but it would not have been in my mind. I would have saw that CLE is set up through sheer luck to win long term whereas MIA went all in on building a dynasty in 2010. I would not have returned to a s**t roster in CLE and a bleak outlook. I would however had seen that in MIA Wade ain't going nowhere and if he plays like last year and gets paid like a franchise player long term I am limited in building around myself and beating SAS. But in CLE I have a lot of younger promising pieces around me and the draft ammo and movable parts to better construct the roster I want to win now and in the future. Also if I take control of my messaging I can be viewed as a savior and not the villain this go around and I make the correct business decision and go back to CLE and let the people believe that I came back for them.

To be honest I personally would have joined Melo in NYC and be the king of NYC and rake in the dough pound for pound. It is what I wanted to see happen but it didn't.

Originally posted by StOnEy333:

Originally posted by 4ML:
Anyway...lol not worth it.

Apparently scoring more ppg means you're better. Carmelo is the 2nd best player in the NBA after Durant lol

I'm pretty sure Wade himself would admit that he wasn't the best SG in the league over Kobe at any point. lol



But whatevs. No point in going in circles. lol

The year Wade won the chip with the same team Kobe and Shaq let their egos torpedo in 2006 and in 2009 when MJ said D Wade should have been MVP over LBJ. I agree with you that Kobe has clearly been the premier 2 guard of his era and that his career dwarfs D Wade in terms of accomplishment. In short Kobe has been the better player than D Wade by a noticeable margin over the entirety of their careers but in 2006 and 2009 the argument can be had that D Wade was the best 2 guard in the game. Wade certainly has been the more efficient player all things considered but Kobe simply has too many pelts on his wall to deny him when pitted against D Wade and yes I know D Wade will say that Kobe is the better player. He already has on several occasions. Despite what some may think Wade is a classy player and he gives others their due including Kobe. Kobe has earned that and D Wade is my favorite player but I rank Kobe as the better of the two without blinking after considering their careers. Fair is fair!

^^^

I just think since his ppl have been talkin' about coming back to Cleveland for 2 years now - there is something genuine about coming back home. But yes, in the end - it's about brand and it's about legacy. He had to come back to Cleveland after the way he left. It's a great story...ppl will talk about it forever and if he wins a title in Cleveland - his popularity and brand will be at all-time high and match any player in history. He knows that.

I do like how he handled this free agency though. In fact...since the loss to Dallas - he has handled everything as well as anyone could have. I thought him leading the way against Sterling was ballsy and fukin' awesome.

Originally posted by 4ML:
^^^

I just think since his ppl have been talkin' about coming back to Cleveland for 2 years now - there is something genuine about coming back home. But yes, in the end - it's about brand and it's about legacy. He had to come back to Cleveland after the way he left. It's a great story...ppl will talk about it forever and if he wins a title in Cleveland - his popularity and brand will be at all-time high and match any player in history. He knows that.

I do like how he handled this free agency though. In fact...since the loss to Dallas - he has handled everything as well as anyone could have. I thought him leading the way against Sterling was ballsy and fukin' awesome.

Yes LBJ has done a 180 in brand imaging since 2010. None of my observation and opinion is changing the fact that I believe he has been the best player in the league ever since he spent that summer with Kobe on the redeem team. Don't confuse my words into thinking that any of this mess is supposed to lessen his stature as the game's best. It is just that I see through some of this "messaging". I criticized the talking heads when they unjustly beat LBJ up for making his own business move when he made a move he needed to and deserved to make in 2010 and I am criticizing them now for overly lavishing praise on LBJ now for him saving CLE and making this ultimate sacrifice in returning when I believe it to be much more than that. He is the best in the game by far but he ain't on some type of charity mission going back to CLE. His business mind is so shrewd that he is overlooking Gilbert's punk a$$ mostly because he sees a great opportunity for himself

Originally posted by Pillbusta:

Originally posted by StOnEy333:

Originally posted by 4ML:
Anyway...lol not worth it.

Apparently scoring more ppg means you're better. Carmelo is the 2nd best player in the NBA after Durant lol

I'm pretty sure Wade himself would admit that he wasn't the best SG in the league over Kobe at any point. lol



But whatevs. No point in going in circles. lol

The year Wade won the chip with the same team Kobe and Shaq let their egos torpedo in 2006 and in 2009 when MJ said D Wade should have been MVP over LBJ. I agree with you that Kobe has clearly been the premier 2 guard of his era and that his career dwarfs D Wade in terms of accomplishment. In short Kobe has been the better player than D Wade by a noticeable margin over the entirety of their careers but in 2006 and 2009 the argument can be had that D Wade was the best 2 guard in the game. Wade certainly has been the more efficient player all things considered but Kobe simply has too many pelts on his wall to deny him when pitted against D Wade and yes I know D Wade will say that Kobe is the better player. He already has on several occasions. Despite what some may think Wade is a classy player and he gives others their due including Kobe. Kobe has earned that and D Wade is my favorite player but I rank Kobe as the better of the two without blinking after considering their careers. Fair is fair!

Yeup...never said Wade is a better player over the entirety of their careers. That'll be just a dumb thing to say. There were couple years when Wade was better, imho. Kobe fans are a bit sensitive and completely over-look efficiency because it goes against their argument.

Anyway - I remember quite a few ppl on tv were rating Wade higher one off-season.

Originally posted by Pillbusta:

Originally posted by 4ML:
^^^

I just think since his ppl have been talkin' about coming back to Cleveland for 2 years now - there is something genuine about coming back home. But yes, in the end - it's about brand and it's about legacy. He had to come back to Cleveland after the way he left. It's a great story...ppl will talk about it forever and if he wins a title in Cleveland - his popularity and brand will be at all-time high and match any player in history. He knows that.

I do like how he handled this free agency though. In fact...since the loss to Dallas - he has handled everything as well as anyone could have. I thought him leading the way against Sterling was ballsy and fukin' awesome.

Yes LBJ has done a 180 in brand imaging since 2010. None of my observation and opinion is changing the fact that I believe he has been the best player in the league ever since he spent that summer with Kobe on the redeem team. Don't confuse my words into thinking that any of this mess is supposed to lessen his stature as the game's best. It is just that I see through some of this "messaging". I criticized the talking heads when they unjustly beat LBJ up for making his own business move when he made a move he needed to and deserved to make in 2010 and I am criticizing them now for overly lavishing praise on LBJ now for him saving CLE and making this ultimate sacrifice in returning when I believe it to be much more than that. He is the best in the game by far but he ain't on some type of charity mission going back to CLE. His business mind is so shrewd that he is overlooking Gilbert's punk a$$ mostly because he sees a great opportunity for himself

No arguments there. Media is always going over-board with praise and criticism...and yes, he knows what it'll do to his brand if he wins a title in Cleveland and he knows there is an opportunity to just that in a year or two.

Originally posted by 4ML:
Yeup...never said Wade is a better player over the entirety of their careers. That'll be just a dumb thing to say. There were couple years when Wade was better, imho. Kobe fans are a bit sensitive and completely over-look efficiency because it goes against their argument.

Anyway - I remember quite a few ppl on tv were rating Wade higher one off-season.

That would have been ESPN player rankings in 2011 after MIA lost to DAL. LBJ was number 1, D12 number 2, and Wade number 3. So you might say there were 3 years D Wade was in the argument for best 2 guard in the game: 2006 when they said he was the new MJ after avg 35ppg vs DAL in the Finals, 2009 when MJ said he should be league MVP and 2011 when ESPN rated him 3rd best player in the game and Kobe at 7? That said Kobe still has been better and more consistent through the entirety of their careers by a pretty good margin. D Wade has his highlights though so he has had a great career as well

Barring wades 2006 finals performance, iverson was the best sg in 2006

NBA GM Survey....Who is the Best Shooting Guard in the NBA? (taken prior to the season)

2005-06....Kobe Bryant = 56%, Dwyane Wade = 28%
2006-07....Kobe Bryant = 71.4%, Dwyane Wade = 21.4% (right after Wade's brightest moment)
2007-08....Kobe Bryant = 92.6%, Dwyane Wade = 3.7%
2008-09...Kobe Bryant = 92.6%, Dwyane Wade = 3.7%
2009-10...Kobe Bryant = 89.7%, Dwyane Wade = 3.7%
2010-11...Kobe Bryant = 85.7%, Dwyane Wade = 10.7%

I guess all the NBA GMs are just huge Kobe fanboys. Such a ridiculous argument.

So is Kevin Love joining lebron this month or what?

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

NBA GM Survey....Who is the Best Shooting Guard in the NBA? (taken prior to the season)

2005-06....Kobe Bryant = 56%, Dwyane Wade = 28%
2006-07....Kobe Bryant = 71.4%, Dwyane Wade = 21.4% (right after Wade's brightest moment)
2007-08....Kobe Bryant = 92.6%, Dwyane Wade = 3.7%
2008-09...Kobe Bryant = 92.6%, Dwyane Wade = 3.7%
2009-10...Kobe Bryant = 89.7%, Dwyane Wade = 3.7%
2010-11...Kobe Bryant = 85.7%, Dwyane Wade = 10.7%

I guess all the NBA GMs are just huge Kobe fanboys. Such a ridiculous argument.

No. But some fans are...and not just of Kobe either. As a matter of fact the greatest winner since MJ retired is now Tim Duncan IMO. With 3 Finals MVP and five rings he trumps Kobe 5 rings 2 Finals MVP and Shaq 4 rings 3 Finals MVP. LeBron has to catch all these guys and I think he still can