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2013-14 General NBA Discussion Thread

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
Originally posted by 4ML:
That's terrible.

Scoring 25 a game is meaningless if you're giving up 25-30 at the other end.

Harden can play D, he just isn't consistent. Like I said 24 years old and this is his 2nd year starting. He will get there.

Most guys who end up as good defenders are playing good defense by the time they're 24. He has the ability to do it, but not the mentality. His defense is embarrassing because he barely cares.
  • AmpLee
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Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
James Harden is 24 years old. He will get better on D.

But bring the hate. I love it. First you guys said he sucked in college and wasn't a top player. Then you guys say he was drafted way too high. Then you guys talked s**t about him being a bench player. Then you guys said he can't be a teams top player and he was overpaid.

Now you are putting together gifs and youtube clips to attack his defense (because we all know every NBA player plays 100% D all the time and never takes plays off, I mean thats what the NBA is known for right? Consistent tough tenacious D every single possession).

So EAD a b***hes, Harden will lead the Rockets to playoffs as a 4 or 5 seed.

Oh and who was the person that said Harden would be a top 10 scorer in the league and Houston would grab the 8th playoff spot last year? Oh that was me.

Harden's defense has been a problem since his OKC days, and it's hardly just "haters" that point it out. http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=246150

Houston had a .515 winning percentage, then added Harden, Jeremy Lin, & Omer Asik, and got all the way up to .549 with them. They were hardly some out of nowhere story. Harden's numbers are simply a function of increased opportunity. He's considerably less efficient on his play usage than he was in OKC, and he's turning the ball over at a historic rate this year. His play hasn't impacted wins and losses in Houston, he's simply put up gaudy numbers in what was the fastest paced offense in the league, while getting the most touches. They'll be better this year, but that's because they added Dwight Howard.

Harden's a good player, but he's incredibly overrated.

Oh snap!
  • 4ML
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Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
James Harden is 24 years old. He will get better on D.

But bring the hate. I love it. First you guys said he sucked in college and wasn't a top player. Then you guys say he was drafted way too high. Then you guys talked s**t about him being a bench player. Then you guys said he can't be a teams top player and he was overpaid.

Now you are putting together gifs and youtube clips to attack his defense (because we all know every NBA player plays 100% D all the time and never takes plays off, I mean thats what the NBA is known for right? Consistent tough tenacious D every single possession).

So EAD a b***hes, Harden will lead the Rockets to playoffs as a 4 or 5 seed.

Oh and who was the person that said Harden would be a top 10 scorer in the league and Houston would grab the 8th playoff spot last year? Oh that was me.

I like James Harden too but I'm not sure how you can defend that. It's the effort. Of course, players take a play off here and there...but all those possessions are from the same game.
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Harden's defense has been a problem since his OKC days, and it's hardly just "haters" that point it out. http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=246150

Houston had a .515 winning percentage, then added Harden, Jeremy Lin, & Omer Asik, and got all the way up to .549 with them. They were hardly some out of nowhere story. Harden's numbers are simply a function of increased opportunity. He's considerably less efficient on his play usage than he was in OKC, and he's turning the ball over at a historic rate this year. His play hasn't impacted wins and losses in Houston, he's simply put up gaudy numbers in what was the fastest paced offense in the league, while getting the most touches. They'll be better this year, but that's because they added Dwight Howard.

Harden's a good player, but he's incredibly overrated.

lolololololol

How do you watch so much basketball and coach it and say something so wrong.

Here, learn some basketball:
http://www.thedreamshake.com/2013/7/31/4573944/breaking-down-james-hardens-offensive-game

or

http://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/05/03/hardens-season-in-a-word-great/?_r=0

As far as turnovers this season go, were not even at the 10 game mark!!! Mr. Nate Silver's #1 fan should know that for reliable statistics you need to have ample data, otherwise the stats are too misleading by unusual performances (8 TO's against Portland).
[ Edited by SunDevilNiner79 on Nov 8, 2013 at 12:18 PM ]
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Most guys who end up as good defenders are playing good defense by the time they're 24. He has the ability to do it, but not the mentality. His defense is embarrassing because he barely cares.

Yeah I'm sure a 24 year old NBA player never improved on his defensive game
[ Edited by SunDevilNiner79 on Nov 8, 2013 at 12:18 PM ]
  • 4ML
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Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
Originally posted by 4ML:
That's terrible.

Scoring 25 a game is meaningless if you're giving up 25-30 at the other end.

Harden can play D, he just isn't consistent. Like I said 24 years old and this is his 2nd year starting. He will get there.

Most guys who end up as good defenders are playing good defense by the time they're 24. He has the ability to do it, but not the mentality. His defense is embarrassing because he barely cares.

Yea...plus I don't think starting has anything to do with it.
i wouldnt call harden over rated, but he's not one of the best players in the NBA either. i believe he still has room to improve, if he wants to. i truly believe he has the potential to be a top 5 NBA player at one point. you're never gonna get 100% consistency on defense from your best scorer, but he does have to get a little more consistent. but a guy with his size, ability to get to free throw line, make 3s, and throw great passes, are very rare indeed.
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Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
i wouldnt call harden over rated, but he's not one of the best players in the NBA either. i believe he still has room to improve, if he wants to. i truly believe he has the potential to be a top 5 NBA player at one point. you're never gonna get 100% consistency on defense from your best scorer, but he does have to get a little more consistent. but a guy with his size, ability to get to free throw line, make 3s, and throw great passes, are very rare indeed.

Do you think he's a top 10 player? A lot of ppl are calling him the best SG in the game today...and I disagree with that. I like Harden...and I do think he'll improve. But, if you're not even tryin' to play defense - that's a problem. Like I said - all those plays are from the same game.

Plus...guys like Kobe (in his prime - and even today when game is on line), Wade, Lebron, Pierce, CP3, Durant give great effort of defense. If you're gonna be the leader of the team - you can't play one end IMHO.
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Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Most guys who end up as good defenders are playing good defense by the time they're 24. He has the ability to do it, but not the mentality. His defense is embarrassing because he barely cares.

Yeah I'm sure a 24 year old NBA player never improved on his defensive game

Hmmm, I must be missing the part where LA says no player at 24 has ever improved their defense.
Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
lolololololol

How do you watch so much basketball and coach it and say something so wrong.

Here, learn some basketball:
http://www.thedreamshake.com/2013/7/31/4573944/breaking-down-james-hardens-offensive-game

or

http://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/05/03/hardens-season-in-a-word-great/?_r=0

As far as turnovers this season go, were not even at the 10 game mark!!! Mr. Nate Silver's #1 fan should know that for reliable statistics you need to have ample data, otherwise the stats are too misleading by unusual performances (8 TO's against Portland).

It's weird that this is such a hot button issue for you, especially considering how little you care about basketball overall. It's like he's related to you. lol

None of what you said refuted my point, which was that his efficiency dropped off significantly on each play type when compared to what he did in OKC. His "improvement" was a function of going from being the 3rd option in OKC to the #1 option in Houston. (which also explains his drop in efficiency) I'm not saying he's not a very good offensive player...he is...I'm just saying that the only difference between OKC and Houston is opportunity. I'd be happy to go and reference the exact Synergy Sports data that those articles reference to illustrate his across the board drop in efficiency since joining Houston if you want to waste my time.

He was the 2nd most turnover prone player in the league last year, at 3.8 TOPG.

He's a very good offensive player, yet his defensive deficiencies and tendency to turn the ball over lead his overall impact on wins and losses to be less than it appears to be. To put it simply, he's great at the things that most fans see and what advanced statistics track, and absolutely atrocious at many things that they don't. You don't accrue statistics for playing terrible defense like is in that video, but you absolutely hurt your team.
Originally posted by 4ML:
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
i wouldnt call harden over rated, but he's not one of the best players in the NBA either. i believe he still has room to improve, if he wants to. i truly believe he has the potential to be a top 5 NBA player at one point. you're never gonna get 100% consistency on defense from your best scorer, but he does have to get a little more consistent. but a guy with his size, ability to get to free throw line, make 3s, and throw great passes, are very rare indeed.

Do you think he's a top 10 player? A lot of ppl are calling him the best SG in the game today...and I disagree with that. I like Harden...and I do think he'll improve. But, if you're not even tryin' to play defense - that's a problem. Like I said - all those plays are from the same game.

Plus...guys like Kobe (in his prime - and even today when game is on line), Wade, Lebron, Pierce, CP3, Durant give great effort of defense. If you're gonna be the leader of the team - you can't play one end IMHO.

Yep.
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Also...having an elite shot blocker and rebounder in the paint makes defense so much easier on the perimeter. Harden doesn't have to crash boards...he doesn't have to worry about his guy gettin' half a step on him on the drive. He can play aggressive defense. Paul George takes full advantage of having Hibbert and David West behind him. So does a knuckle-head like Lance Stevenson...and that lifts the whole defense.
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
It's weird that this is such a hot button issue for you, especially considering how little you care about basketball overall. It's like he's related to you. lol

None of what you said refuted my point, which was that his efficiency dropped off significantly on each play type when compared to what he did in OKC. His "improvement" was a function of going from being the 3rd option in OKC to the #1 option in Houston. (which also explains his drop in efficiency) I'm not saying he's not a very good offensive player...he is...I'm just saying that the only difference between OKC and Houston is opportunity. I'd be happy to go and reference the exact Synergy Sports data that those articles reference to illustrate his across the board drop in efficiency since joining Houston if you want to waste my time.

He was the 2nd most turnover prone player in the league last year, at 3.8 TOPG.

He's a very good offensive player, yet his defensive deficiencies and tendency to turn the ball over lead his overall impact on wins and losses to be less than it appears to be. To put it simply, he's great at the things that most fans see and what advanced statistics track, and absolutely atrocious at many things that they don't. You don't accrue statistics for playing terrible defense like is in that video, but you absolutely hurt your team.

Lol. Yea I just walked into this exchange and I thought to myself "wow sun devil is fired up about something".

Not gonna lie I loved seeing Howard's mopey ass mumble about team effort likes he knows what being a leader is.

I don't think he realizes he's playing with other people sometimes.
[ Edited by eonblue on Nov 8, 2013 at 1:00 PM ]
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
It's weird that this is such a hot button issue for you, especially considering how little you care about basketball overall. It's like he's related to you. lol

None of what you said refuted my point, which was that his efficiency dropped off significantly on each play type when compared to what he did in OKC. His "improvement" was a function of going from being the 3rd option in OKC to the #1 option in Houston. (which also explains his drop in efficiency) I'm not saying he's not a very good offensive player...he is...I'm just saying that the only difference between OKC and Houston is opportunity. I'd be happy to go and reference the exact Synergy Sports data that those articles reference to illustrate his across the board drop in efficiency since joining Houston if you want to waste my time.

He was the 2nd most turnover prone player in the league last year, at 3.8 TOPG.

He's a very good offensive player, yet his defensive deficiencies and tendency to turn the ball over lead his overall impact on wins and losses to be less than it appears to be. To put it simply, he's great at the things that most fans see and what advanced statistics track, and absolutely atrocious at many things that they don't. You don't accrue statistics for playing terrible defense like is in that video, but you absolutely hurt your team.



Your statement: "His [Harden's] play hasn't impacted wins and losses in Houston" is what I'm mostly responding to.

And regarding turnovers, it is bad, but Kobe was at 3.7 last year (3rd most last year). So Kobe must be overrated by your logic. I don't think its coincidence that SGs handling the ball that much are turning it over.

Or on this year Derrick Rose is at 5.3 TPG but your blasting Harden for it, that he is on pace for a historical record on it lol. Kevin Durant is at 4.5 TPG, OMG, he is the worst too! We're friggin not even at the 10 game mark and you're talking about setting historical records.

oh and lol @ amp trying to chime in by piggybacking on LA.
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Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:

oh and lol @ amp trying to chime in by piggybacking on LA.

Lol at how sensitive you are.