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2013 NBA Finals thread: San Antonio Spurs vs. Miami Heat

2013 NBA Finals thread: San Antonio Spurs vs. Miami Heat

Originally posted by marshniners24:
Duncan was hit directly in the face on that block

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Originally posted by marshniners24:
Duncan was hit directly in the face on that block

Dude...ball is long gone. That's not a foul. Even Duncan (who complains as much as Lebron) didn't complain about it.
Well good game guys and hoping G7 is as much fun as this one was!
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Bosh has been a jump shooter since he came to the Heat. A lot of that has to do with the fact that they play such small lineups that he's always being guarded by a guy that's too big for him to shoot over in the post. Like I said earlier, Wade has had great seasons with James alongside of him and they've gone to 3 straight finals...he's just played terribly in these playoffs (for the most part). That's not Lebron's fault. How do you go from a 21.2 ppg at 52% shooting in the regular season to what he did in the first 3 rounds? Did Lebron all of a sudden put a hex on him? You could say that in the playoffs the offense has been flowing more through Lebron but I'd say that is because Wade has generally been playing poorly and without confidence or rhythm. That's also the reason why the best Heat lineup is the one with him on the bench. You could also say this has to do with the way the Spurs are playing the Heat. But again that's not an indictment on James.

I'm not really sure what you're implying in that last sentence (especially with how in the previous paragraph you mentioned their best lineup included James), but I don't think any +/- or advanced metric is going to make me believe they're better with James off the court.

They've been outscored by the Spurs with him on the court in 4 of the 6 games. I don't see how this is an advanced metric, it's the score.

Regarding Wade, no, it's not a hex. It's that simple dribble penetration opportunities that are available in the regular season are not available to the same degree in the playoffs. Miami has the regular season benefit of being an unusual team in that their offense is centered around a single player. Come playoff time, that can be prepared for in a way that you can't do in the regular season. LeBron's teams have almost always been significantly better in the regular season than the postseason, even when accounting for the increased level of competition. Wade's not getting the same quality of looks he got in the regular season.

Bosh played plenty of center in Toronto. It certainly wasn't Andrea Bargnani. His sweet spot was in the high post, facing up on guys that were bigger than him. He could knock down that jumper if they played off of him, and he could drive by them if they played up on him. How often do you see Bosh get a high post touch these days?
Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:
Originally posted by marshniners24:
Duncan was hit directly in the face on that block

Dude...ball is long gone. That's not a foul. Even Duncan (who complains as much as Lebron) didn't complain about it.

The ball was like at half court by the time his face was b***h slapped.

Ref are obviously looking up Court by then.
Lebron averages over 31 PPG in elimination games ...With his back against the wall and everything on the line, he has performed better than anyone in the history of the NBA yet he isn't clutch.... lol yeah ok clutch is not always the last couple of minutes or the last shot, look at the entire picture and for the record, in game winning shot attempts since 2000, Kobe is shooting 30% with Lebron shooting 31% albeit Kobe takes WAAAAAYY more shot attempts (101 to Lebron's 68 I believe) yet Kobe is considered an assassin and Lebron is considered a choke artist? haters gonna hate
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Right, 25% shooting doesn't matter in G7 of the finals. Point is, he was totally bailed out by lesser players in that game.

No, it really doesn't. It's this weird statistic that people obsess over. The Lakers as a team shot 32.5% in that game. But they played tremendous defense, destroyed Boston on the boards, and got to the line far more than the Celtics did, all of which were areas that Kobe contributed to in large quantities.

"I thought in Game 7 [of the 2010 NBA Finals], what gets lost on people, [Boston] was badly outrebounded, and he didn't have a particularly good shooting night, but he had a great rebounding night and that probably was the difference of the game." - Tom Thibodeau, who was Boston's Assistant Coach at the time.
Kobe in game 7...last 4 minutes:

Missed a 19 footer
Missed a FT
MIssed a 3pt shot
Made 2 FTs after game was over

Kobe in game 7...last quarter with team down by 2

1 for 3 from the field
6 of 7 from the FT line
Made 2 FTs after game was over
1 Turnover


lol
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Right, 25% shooting doesn't matter in G7 of the finals. Point is, he was totally bailed out by lesser players in that game.

No, it really doesn't. It's this weird statistic that people obsess over. The Lakers as a team shot 32.5% in that game. But they played tremendous defense, destroyed Boston on the boards, and got to the line far more than the Celtics did, all of which were areas that Kobe contributed to in large quantities.

"I thought in Game 7 [of the 2010 NBA Finals], what gets lost on people, [Boston] was badly outrebounded, and he didn't have a particularly good shooting night, but he had a great rebounding night and that probably was the difference of the game." - Tom Thibodeau, who was Boston's Assistant Coach at the time.

So true. I don't think Perkins played in that game and they got DESTROYED on the glass
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
They've been outscored by the Spurs with him on the court in 4 of the 6 games. I don't see how this is an advanced metric, it's the score.

Regarding Wade, no, it's not a hex. It's that simple dribble penetration opportunities that are available in the regular season are not available to the same degree in the playoffs. Miami has the regular season benefit of being an unusual team in that their offense is centered around a single player. Come playoff time, that can be prepared for in a way that you can't do in the regular season. LeBron's teams have almost always been significantly better in the regular season than the postseason, even when accounting for the increased level of competition. Wade's not getting the same quality of looks he got in the regular season.

Bosh played plenty of center in Toronto. It certainly wasn't Andrea Bargnani. His sweet spot was in the high post, facing up on guys that were bigger than him. He could knock down that jumper if they played off of him, and he could drive by them if they played up on him. How often do you see Bosh get a high post touch these days?

I'm not really sure if you are actually looking at +/- and using that to imply that the Heat are better without Lebron...I hope not, because that's just silly.

Really this talk of Lebron diminishing Wade (which I totally disagree with ) and Bosh (partly disagree with) is such a moot point because the Heat have gone to 3 straight finals since Lebron got there.
Originally posted by Sims84:
Lebron averages over 31 PPG in elimination games ...With his back against the wall and everything on the line, he has performed better than anyone in the history of the NBA yet he isn't clutch.... lol yeah ok clutch is not always the last couple of minutes or the last shot, look at the entire picture and for the record, in game winning shot attempts since 2000, Kobe is shooting 30% with Lebron shooting 31% albeit Kobe takes WAAAAAYY more shot attempts (101 to Lebron's 68 I believe) yet Kobe is considered an assassin and Lebron is considered a choke artist? haters gonna hate

The mistake is equating a player's value so completely with PPG and FG%. For the life of me, I don't understand why people are so prone to doing this. LeBron shot the ball 26 times tonight, along with 12 FTs, which is a pretty high amount. This game probably had around 220 possessions in it, meaning that LeBron's high volume shooting still only amounted to about 15% of his possessions on the court, but for some strange reason we treat that 15% like it's 99%.
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
No, it really doesn't. It's this weird statistic that people obsess over. The Lakers as a team shot 32.5% in that game. But they played tremendous defense, destroyed Boston on the boards, and got to the line far more than the Celtics did, all of which were areas that Kobe contributed to in large quantities.

"I thought in Game 7 [of the 2010 NBA Finals], what gets lost on people, [Boston] was badly outrebounded, and he didn't have a particularly good shooting night, but he had a great rebounding night and that probably was the difference of the game." - Tom Thibodeau, who was Boston's Assistant Coach at the time.

Yea...that's a fine statement. But, saying Kobe played poorly because he shot 0-3 in the last 4 minutes and they still won the game because Ron Artest made the game winning 3pt shot seems pretty accurate too.
Why on Earth are people debating Kobe vs. Lebron here? Kobe is way more skilled offensively, but Lebron is just a better all-around player. I'm a huge Kobe fan and like him a lot more than Lebron, but ehhh, you'd have to be insane to pick the Kobester over Lebron. Not to mention, Kobe is a pretty selfish player and that can get in the way.

Look at that team in Cleveland that Lebron took to the finals, I don't know any other star that could do that...let's at least be a little bit realistic here. Lebron is an entirely different player, he just doesn't have the consistent jumper to help him in the final possessions.
[ Edited by binarythird on Jun 19, 2013 at 12:13 AM ]
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Right, 25% shooting doesn't matter in G7 of the finals. Point is, he was totally bailed out by lesser players in that game.

No, it really doesn't. It's this weird statistic that people obsess over. The Lakers as a team shot 32.5% in that game. But they played tremendous defense, destroyed Boston on the boards, and got to the line far more than the Celtics did, all of which were areas that Kobe contributed to in large quantities.

"I thought in Game 7 [of the 2010 NBA Finals], what gets lost on people, [Boston] was badly outrebounded, and he didn't have a particularly good shooting night, but he had a great rebounding night and that probably was the difference of the game." - Tom Thibodeau, who was Boston's Assistant Coach at the time.

If you wanna play that game then Lebron should NEVER be criticized for his offensive numbers (which of course is all that people look at) because he's clearly the best defender on the court at all times. He's also a tremendous rebounder and sets up quite a few of his teammates.
Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:
Yea...that's a fine statement. But, saying Kobe played poorly because he shot 0-3 in the last 4 minutes and they still won the game because Ron Artest made the game winning 3pt shot seems pretty accurate too.

You sir don't understand GREATNESS!!!