2013 NBA Finals thread: San Antonio Spurs vs. Miami Heat

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by dhp318:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Neither the '09 nor '10 Lakers won a title with two superstars or a superstar and 2 all-stars and a lot of talent around them. And not only did he sign with a team with 2 superstars, he ALSO had a third guy that was a perennial all-star.

I've never understood why this doesn't grate on your guys' competitive spirit.

I hated the signing with Miami somewhat for that reason, but also because I thought Wade and James were just a bad fit to play with each other. But so what? The guy is still one of the greatest of all time in his prime, and you're a fool if you don't appreciate it.

Because I think he's a puss for signing with Miami, I can't recognize that he's one of the all time greats?

You just watched an all time great postseason run, a ridiculous Finals series, and all you can do is complain about the Decision?

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:
I don't begrudge him leaving Cleveland. It was the teaming up with another superstar and another perennial all-star that I thought was really weak.

It's not weak at all when you look around and see that every team winning the chip had 2 super-stars or a combination of Super-star with 2 all-stars and a lot of talent around them. The only exception was Pistons...who had 5 really good players.

Neither the '09 nor '10 Lakers won a title with two superstars or a superstar and 2 all-stars and a lot of talent around them. And not only did he sign with a team with 2 superstars, he ALSO had a third guy that was a perennial all-star.

I've never understood why this doesn't grate on your guys' competitive spirit.

Pau Gasol was not a star in 2009...2010? C'mon man. They had Artest (who averaged 17ppg with Houston the season before and was the same player except was shooting 5 less shots a game and still considered a great perimeter defender), they had Odom (another guy who could average 15 and 10 if played 36 minutes a game) and a budding star in Bynum (who was averaging 15 and 8).

Those Lakers teams were the most talented teams to win championships.

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by blizzuntz:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

I don't begrudge him leaving Cleveland. It was the teaming up with another superstar and another perennial all-star that I thought was really weak.

So Shaq leaving to be with 1 all star is ok, but if its 2 all stars then its weak?

You mean Shaq signing with the Lakers? What all-star are you talking about? Cedric Ceballos? lol

And we're not talking about an all-star...we're talking superstar. Top 5 player in the game. Finals MVP. One of the best SGs ever. Plus another guy who had made 5 consecutive ASGs and was arguably the best offensive big in the game? How does that compare to what Shaq did?

Whoops I thought Eddie Jones made the all star team before he got there.

But had Jones made the all star team before , I'm pretty sure Shaq wouldn't have turned down the offer.

But will never know

Originally posted by dhp318:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by dhp318:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Neither the '09 nor '10 Lakers won a title with two superstars or a superstar and 2 all-stars and a lot of talent around them. And not only did he sign with a team with 2 superstars, he ALSO had a third guy that was a perennial all-star.

I've never understood why this doesn't grate on your guys' competitive spirit.

I hated the signing with Miami somewhat for that reason, but also because I thought Wade and James were just a bad fit to play with each other. But so what? The guy is still one of the greatest of all time in his prime, and you're a fool if you don't appreciate it.

Because I think he's a puss for signing with Miami, I can't recognize that he's one of the all time greats?

You just watched an all time great postseason run, a ridiculous Finals series, and all you can do is complain about the Decision?

I didn't bring the subject up, I merely replied to the topic of conversation that people were discussing. I watched playoffs as closely as anyone. And I'm not sure what "all time great postseason run" you're referring to.

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by dhp318:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by dhp318:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Neither the '09 nor '10 Lakers won a title with two superstars or a superstar and 2 all-stars and a lot of talent around them. And not only did he sign with a team with 2 superstars, he ALSO had a third guy that was a perennial all-star.

I've never understood why this doesn't grate on your guys' competitive spirit.

I hated the signing with Miami somewhat for that reason, but also because I thought Wade and James were just a bad fit to play with each other. But so what? The guy is still one of the greatest of all time in his prime, and you're a fool if you don't appreciate it.

Because I think he's a puss for signing with Miami, I can't recognize that he's one of the all time greats?

You just watched an all time great postseason run, a ridiculous Finals series, and all you can do is complain about the Decision?

I didn't bring the subject up, I merely replied to the topic of conversation that people were discussing. I watched playoffs as closely as anyone. And I'm not sure what "all time great postseason run" you're referring to.

This was not an all time run. The last all time run was when the Lakers went 16-1. This run was of a team that can't f**ken stay focused.

Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:
Pau Gasol was not a star in 2009...2010? C'mon man. They had Artest (who averaged 17ppg with Houston the season before and was the same player except was shooting 5 less shots a game and still considered a great perimeter defender), they had Odom (another guy who could average 15 and 10 if played 36 minutes a game) and a budding star in Bynum (who was averaging 15 and 8).

Those Lakers teams were the most talented teams to win championships.

Pau Gasol was a star in 2009 & 2010. He was a legit all-star. Just like Chris Bosh. He's also the same guy who is 0-16 in the playoffs in his NBA career without Kobe Bryant next to him. It had been a good 3 years since Artest was an all-star caliber player when he signed with the Lakers. He was a good role player. Bynum had injured knees both years in the playoffs, playing 17mpg one year and 24mpg the next.

Those Laker teams had one superstar (Kobe), one all-star (Gasol), one really good player (Odom), and 3 good role players. (Artest, Bynum, Fisher)
By contrast, Miami's had two superstars (LeBron, Wade), one all-star (Bosh), and several good role players. (Battier, Allen, Chalmers, Miller, Haslem)

You don't see the difference between the two? Where you have a second superstar that's so good that he's considered to be "struggling" when he's putting up just 20ppg in the Finals?

Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Of course it's his team, he's the best player in the league. It doesn't change the fact that he willfully teamed up with one of the Top 5 players in the game (who did not NEED LeBron...as evidenced by him being the best player on a title team himself) and a perennial all-star in Bosh.

I don't understand why you guys downplay who he signed with. He didn't sign with a "star", lol. He signed with another superstar AND a perennial all-star. This wasn't Kobe getting traded a really good #2 in Gasol. Dwyane Wade was a superstar who was in his prime and had carried a team to a title. No, I don't expect him to win it by himself, but he went to the completely opposite end of the spectrum. Plus a guy like Bosh? (who's comparable to Gasol) Yikes.

Derrick Rose wasn't a star at the time. He was a good, young player. He had several options. The only one I woulda complained about was the one where he joins another superstar and a perennial all-star. They were the 3 best players on the market that year. I can't be the only person that remembers this.

You were right, at the time. Wade was in his prime, Bosh was a pereniall all-star. But, can things change over time? The last two years have been different. You obviously know your b-ball, and you're a coach. So, you can probably come with some stats and other stuff that will go over my head because you know more than me. But, I think most analyst and experts would admit that this Miami team has changed the last two years. Bosh has disappointed. Sure, some of it is cause of playing with Wade and Bron. But zero ponts yesterday? Continually struggling on the boards? That isnt' all system. He needs to shoulder a lot of that responsibility. And, Wade has been hurt. He is still really good, but he is not the Wade that won that first ring. You can't disagree with that.

With all that said, I think you should move on from that intial thinking. He was immature and was mentally soft when he signed with the Heat. The last two years have been totally different. Bosh is not a pereniall all-star now, no matter how you try and justify it. And Wade is not the guy who won a ring by himself. Things change. They have the last two years in Miami which has resulted in two rings and Bron cementing his legacy as an all-time great. And yes, those are his rings not Wade's. I guess to criticize Lebron now, one has to go back three years. Not much bad we can say about him now.

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:
Pau Gasol was not a star in 2009...2010? C'mon man. They had Artest (who averaged 17ppg with Houston the season before and was the same player except was shooting 5 less shots a game and still considered a great perimeter defender), they had Odom (another guy who could average 15 and 10 if played 36 minutes a game) and a budding star in Bynum (who was averaging 15 and 8).

Those Lakers teams were the most talented teams to win championships.

Pau Gasol was a star in 2009 & 2010. He was a legit all-star. Just like Chris Bosh. He's also the same guy who is 0-16 in the playoffs in his NBA career without Kobe Bryant next to him. It had been a good 3 years since Artest was an all-star caliber player when he signed with the Lakers. He was a good role player. Bynum had injured knees both years in the playoffs, playing 17mpg one year and 24mpg the next.

Those Laker teams had one superstar (Kobe), one all-star (Gasol), one really good player (Odom), and 3 good role players. (Artest, Bynum, Fisher)
By contrast, Miami's had two superstars (LeBron, Wade), one all-star (Bosh), and several good role players. (Battier, Allen, Chalmers, Miller, Haslem)

You don't see the difference between the two? Where you have a second superstar that's so good that he's considered to be "struggling" when he's putting up just 20ppg in the Finals?

Gasol was a star before he joined Lakers. Just because he wasn't gettin' the recognition for it, doesn't mean he wasn't. He was playing in the same conference with Duncan, Garnett...and then Amare was puttin' up huge numers in D'Antoni's offense. If Pau was in East - he'd make several all-star games.

Artest scored 17 ppg before joining Lakers and was a premiere perimeter defender. How is that a role player? His role on the Lakers was diminished offensively, but he was still a damn good player. Sorry, he was not a role player. Battier and Allen are role players because they're strictly bench players at this age. Ron Artest in 2009 was a pretty darn good starter in this league.

Odom was another guy who had all-star caliber. He was only coming off the bench due to necessity. He played only 29-30 minutes a game during the season. When he played 36 minutes a game, he was a double-double machine.

The injury is the only reason why I put Bynum towards the end. But, with Gasol...Lakers didn't need Bynum to play 36 minutes a game. They could easily move Gasol to Center and play Odom at PF.

I see the difference between the two. But, Lakers had more options and more talent overall. That's why when Bynum got hurt, they were able to adjust accordingly. Lakers had 2 big men and Odom who could rebound like one. This Heat team doesn't have a true Center and inserted Battier in the line-up when Bosh went down last year. When Wade is injured...Heat doesn't have a replacement.

The fact that Lakers had two big men makes them so much more versatile and talented.

Not 1 not 2 not 3.... It's not about clevland it's about coming to a team that has basically bought their way into success. I have no problem with that at all its worked for them. Lebron is part of that. Just point out facts. They knew they were going to be pretty much unbeatable, I knew it. I don't hate lebron for that I don't even dislike him im just saying its a valid point when looking at his career.

Originally posted by 49erha:

Not 1 not 2 not 3.... It's not about clevland it's about coming to a team that has basically bought their way into success. I have no problem with that at all its worked for them. Lebron is part of that. Just point out facts. They knew they were going to be pretty much unbeatable, I knew it. I don't hate lebron for that I don't even dislike him im just saying its a valid point when looking at his career.

A lot of teams buy, and try to buy their way to success. It's called free agency

Originally posted by 49erha:
Not 1 not 2 not 3.... It's not about clevland it's about coming to a team that has basically bought their way into success. I have no problem with that at all its worked for them. Lebron is part of that. Just point out facts. They knew they were going to be pretty much unbeatable, I knew it. I don't hate lebron for that I don't even dislike him im just saying its a valid point when looking at his career.

Miami Heat didn't have the highest paid roster in the league.

...and if you're going to point out the facts...look at the whole picture. This is an era where Boston had Garnett, Allen, and Pierce...Kobe had Gasol, Bynum, Odom, Artest, Spurs had Duncan, Parker, Ginobili. Those rosters looked pretty unbeatable too.

the NBA wanted the heat to win so it happened. Im not shocked

Originally posted by sacniner:

Originally posted by 49erha:

Not 1 not 2 not 3.... It's not about clevland it's about coming to a team that has basically bought their way into success. I have no problem with that at all its worked for them. Lebron is part of that. Just point out facts. They knew they were going to be pretty much unbeatable, I knew it. I don't hate lebron for that I don't even dislike him im just saying its a valid point when looking at his career.

A lot of teams buy, and try to buy their way to success. It's called free agency

Like I said I have no problem with it Miami did great to take advantage of a oppertunity. However that will be a big part of lebrons legacy no denying that.

I come to say congrats to the heat and all the talk is about the Lakers. Hey now!