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2013 NBA Finals thread: San Antonio Spurs vs. Miami Heat

2013 NBA Finals thread: San Antonio Spurs vs. Miami Heat

cant believe dude actually kicked the dog though

dog will forever be scared of black dudes
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Or just once. smh

And Penny was good, but c'mon now, lol. I have read the strangest s**t on here over the last 24 hours.

Me too, like the Heat are better off in the finals with LBJ on the bench. Crazy talk huh?!
  • jrg
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Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:
Originally posted by jrg:
Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:
Originally posted by jrg:
I'll just leave this here...





Re-watch it and pay attention to the ticker at the bottom




My favorite was the Marlins and Mets 0-0 in the bottom of the 45th...MIA w/ 18 straight hitless games

that..and Houston losing 11-0 and 1-47 on the season
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Or just once. smh

And Penny was good, but c'mon now, lol. I have read the strangest s**t on here over the last 24 hours.

Me too, like the Heat are better off in the finals with LBJ on the bench. Crazy talk huh?!

I was stating fact, not opinion. Miami's been outscored with LeBron on the court in 4 out of the 6 games. I never said I'd take him out, but the facts are the facts.
Originally posted by jrg:
My favorite was the Marlins and Mets 0-0 in the bottom of the 45th...MIA w/ 18 straight hitless games

that..and Houston losing 11-0 and 1-47 on the season

HAHA I didn't even notice the scroller first time.

LOL @ WNBA is this really a sport?
  • 4ML
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 28,486
Originally posted by jrg:
Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:
Originally posted by jrg:
Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:
Originally posted by jrg:
I'll just leave this here...





Re-watch it and pay attention to the ticker at the bottom




My favorite was the Marlins and Mets 0-0 in the bottom of the 45th...MIA w/ 18 straight hitless games

that..and Houston losing 11-0 and 1-47 on the season

I also liked the Alex Rodriguez 0-4 5 strikeouts lool
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
I was stating fact, not opinion. Miami's been outscored with LeBron on the court in 4 out of the 6 games. I never said I'd take him out, but the facts are the facts.

And I'm saying +/- is a completely worthless stat without context. If the Heat are -20 with LBJ in G1 but then win G2 G3 G4 where they're +1 with him in each of these games, they're still -17 when he's on the court overall. Game 1 just could have been a blowout and G2/3/4 close games.

+/- is might be useful when assessing specific lineups in specific situations, not individual players over the course of a series. There are way too many other factors to consider.

Someone posted this earlier:

For the series, the Heat have scored 131.7 points per 100 possessions when James is on the floor without Wade, and just 100.8 when the two have shared the floor, per NBA.com. The Heat are minus-12 for the series, but the James–Mike Miller–Ray Allen super-shooting trio is a crazy plus-50 in just 68 minutes, per NBA.com. The James-Miller-Chalmers trio is plus-43 in just 80 minutes, and the combination of those four players is a stunning plus-49 in just 29 total minutes together, per NBA.com.
[ Edited by Leathaface on Jun 19, 2013 at 9:50 PM ]
  • IT21
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Originally posted by LA9erFan:

i knew you'd disagree right when I type that he said Jordan is underrated, lol.
  • 4ML
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  • Posts: 28,486
Originally posted by InconvenienTTruth21:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:

i knew you'd disagree right when I type that he said Jordan is underrated, lol.

Jordan is over-rated...because ppl think he did things which he never did. Like, giving 50 pts in the finals regularly...or didn't face elimination games like Lebron...etc. Jordan was great...we will see where Kobe and Lebron finish their career.
Originally posted by Leathaface:
And I'm saying +/- is a completely worthless stat without context. If the Heat are -20 with LBJ in G1 but then win G2 G3 G4 where they're +1 with him in each of these games, they're still -17 when he's on the court overall.

+/- is might be useful when assessing specific lineups in specific situations, not individual players over the course of a series. There are way too many other factors to consider.

Someone posted this earlier:

For the series, the Heat have scored 131.7 points per 100 possessions when James is on the floor without Wade, and just 100.8 when the two have shared the floor, per NBA.com. The Heat are minus-12 for the series, but the James–Mike Miller–Ray Allen super-shooting trio is a crazy plus-50 in just 68 minutes, per NBA.com. The James-Miller-Chalmers trio is plus-43 in just 80 minutes, and the combination of those four players is a stunning plus-49 in just 29 total minutes together, per NBA.com.

And that's why I separated it out into individual games rather than having something like his -32 in Game 3 skewing the numbers. Miami's been outscored with LeBron on the floor in 4 of the 6 games in this series, completely independent of anything that happened in another game. I'm not sure how else I can say it. My point never involved a cumulative +/-, so I'm not sure why you're debating the bolded point.

Not sure what the point of the qualifiers are. Is it Wade that is putting a hex on him, as you might say? Or is it that LeBron is a lot more effective when he's surrounded by spot up shooters and drive & dish bigs? (it's that one) LeBron's the best player in the world and completely capable of dominating in the playoffs, but he needs guys with specific skill sets around him to do that. Miami's front office has made a concerted effort to get exactly these kinds of guys, because they know this too. Mike Miller = spot up shooter. Ray Allen = spot up shooter. Rashard Lewis = spot up shooter. Shane Battier = spot up shooter. Chris Andersen = drive & dish big. It's not a coincidence.
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Or just once. smh

And Penny was good, but c'mon now, lol. I have read the strangest s**t on here over the last 24 hours.

Finals. NBA finals. ECF. Playoffs period. Dude was going to explode and punish you relentlessly. And yes Penny Hardaway. You see nowadays players get little to no college and they get to this league based on measurables and potential. They don't start out with the fundamentals. Jordan and Penny did and they would punish these defenses. I am 2 years older than Kobe and plenty older than lebron so I am in that sweet spot of having seen all these players in their primes and Jordan and Penny were incredible. They would own these defenses. Injury robbed hardaway. You witness these players? Smh
  • IT21
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Originally posted by LA9erFan:
And that's why I separated it out into individual games rather than having something like his -32 in Game 3 skewing the numbers. Miami's been outscored with LeBron on the floor in 4 of the 6 games in this series, completely independent of anything that happened in another game. I'm not sure how else I can say it. My point never involved a cumulative +/-, so I'm not sure why you're debating the bolded point.

Not sure what the point of the qualifiers are. Is it Wade that is putting a hex on him, as you might say? Or is it that LeBron is a lot more effective when he's surrounded by spot up shooters and drive & dish bigs? (it's that one) LeBron's the best player in the world and completely capable of dominating in the playoffs, but he needs guys with specific skill sets around him to do that. Miami's front office has made a concerted effort to get exactly these kinds of guys, because they know this too. Mike Miller = spot up shooter. Ray Allen = spot up shooter. Rashard Lewis = spot up shooter. Shane Battier = spot up shooter. Chris Andersen = drive & dish big. It's not a coincidence.

I think the moral of the story is that stats are bull s**t some times
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
And that's why I separated it out into individual games rather than having something like his -32 in Game 3 skewing the numbers. Miami's been outscored with LeBron on the floor in 4 of the 6 games in this series, completely independent of anything that happened in another game. I'm not sure how else I can say it. My point never involved a cumulative +/-, so I'm not sure why you're debating the bolded point.

Not sure what the point of the qualifiers are. Is it Wade that is putting a hex on him, as you might say? Or is it that LeBron is a lot more effective when he's surrounded by spot up shooters and drive & dish bigs? (it's that one) LeBron's the best player in the world and completely capable of dominating in the playoffs, but he needs guys with specific skill sets around him to do that. Miami's front office has made a concerted effort to get exactly these kinds of guys, because they know this too. Mike Miller = spot up shooter. Ray Allen = spot up shooter. Rashard Lewis = spot up shooter. Shane Battier = spot up shooter. Chris Andersen = drive & dish big. It's not a coincidence.

So what is the point of arguing (or even bringing up, for that matter) his individual +/- if you understand that the lineup around him makes a difference? That's exactly what I was saying in my post. Re: the cumulative +/-, my fault, I thought that's what you were using. Still doesn't change the fact that +/- without context (as in the whole lineup, defenses lineup, game situation, etc.) is a worthless statistic.
[ Edited by Leathaface on Jun 19, 2013 at 10:02 PM ]
I don't believe some of you guys saw these players but if you did you would know the difference. Players that knew what to do and when to do it. Technicians even against very physical defenses. Jordan overrated. Ha! I have not seen a better wing player. And Kobe is not it and his best is beyond him. He was great but short of Jordan. Lebron has a chance but I don't see it yet. He still has time and potential but he will be a different guy than MJ. I always hoped he would study Penny's game because I think if he improves his footwork and his handle he could pass shoot post and the handle like Penny. His defense is already elite. DPOY elite
Originally posted by Pillbusta:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Or just once. smh

And Penny was good, but c'mon now, lol. I have read the strangest s**t on here over the last 24 hours.

Finals. NBA finals. ECF. Playoffs period. Dude was going to explode and punish you relentlessly. And yes Penny Hardaway. You see nowadays players get little to no college and they get to this league based on measurables and potential. They don't start out with the fundamentals. Jordan and Penny did and they would punish these defenses. I am 2 years older than Kobe and plenty older than lebron so I am in that sweet spot of having seen all these players in their primes and Jordan and Penny were incredible. They would own these defenses. Injury robbed hardaway. You witness these players? Smh

Hell yes I remember these players, lol. I remember watching Penny at Memphis State, the Lil Penny commercials, the Penny/Shaq/Anderson/Scott/Grant Magic and all that. Even before injuries, Penny was a superb player, but was never in the conversation of the best player in the game, much less in the conversation of iconic players like Jordan, Kobe, & LeBron. It's a completely silly name to bring up in context with those three...and I liked Penny's game quite a bit.

And the point about "fundamentals" is an absurd, when-I-was-your-age platitude. The guys that come into today's game have so much more in the way of fundamentals that it's not even funny. There are so many more player development avenues for young players today than there were then that there's no comparison. And the idea that Penny was some fundamentally sound dude is especially specious. He was a 6'7" guy with ball skills, superb athleticism, and a suspect jumper. The fact that he flamed out of the league after his athleticism diminished is evidence that he wasn't particularly fundamentally sound. In fact, I remember old farts back in the day complaining about him and others lacking the same fundamentals that you're talking about.