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2013 NBA Finals thread: San Antonio Spurs vs. Miami Heat

2013 NBA Finals thread: San Antonio Spurs vs. Miami Heat

Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:
Kobe in game 7...last 4 minutes:

Missed a 19 footer
Missed a FT
MIssed a 3pt shot
Made 2 FTs after game was over

Kobe in game 7...last quarter with team down by 2

1 for 3 from the field
6 of 7 from the FT line
Made 2 FTs after game was over
1 Turnover


lol

Making two free throws when your team is up by 3 with 25 seconds left is "after the game was over?" Does someone wanna tell that to Kawhi Leonard? (Boston immediately hit a 3 pointer to cut it to 2 after that)

And when I see 1-3 FG and 6-7 FT with 1 turnover, I see 8 points on 7 possessions, which is a fantastic yield. He also created 6 FT attempts for Gasol in that 4th quarter, as well as making the post entry pass to Pau, which gave him an excellent look and a made basket. (but no assist)
  • jrg
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Why does EVERY f**kING THREAD have to be LeBron/Bryant/Jordan

f**k.
Originally posted by Leathaface:
If you wanna play that game then Lebron should NEVER be criticized for his offensive numbers (which of course is all that people look at) because he's clearly the best defender on the court at all times. He's also a tremendous rebounder and sets up quite a few of his teammates.

I don't criticize him for his offensive numbers, I criticize him for the looks that he gives his team while being the sun that they orbit around.

He's not the best defender on the court at all times. All in all, he's an excellent defender, but he's been fairly average in this series. He's repeatedly been the culprit in a lot of Danny Green's open looks due to slow/incorrect rotations. He also got back cut quite a bit early in the series.
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by Sims84:
Lebron averages over 31 PPG in elimination games ...With his back against the wall and everything on the line, he has performed better than anyone in the history of the NBA yet he isn't clutch.... lol yeah ok clutch is not always the last couple of minutes or the last shot, look at the entire picture and for the record, in game winning shot attempts since 2000, Kobe is shooting 30% with Lebron shooting 31% albeit Kobe takes WAAAAAYY more shot attempts (101 to Lebron's 68 I believe) yet Kobe is considered an assassin and Lebron is considered a choke artist? haters gonna hate

The mistake is equating a player's value so completely with PPG and FG%. For the life of me, I don't understand why people are so prone to doing this. LeBron shot the ball 26 times tonight, along with 12 FTs, which is a pretty high amount. This game probably had around 220 possessions in it, meaning that LeBron's high volume shooting still only amounted to about 15% of his possessions on the court, but for some strange reason we treat that 15% like it's 99%.

Lebron shoots less than most of the top scorers which is why he is so good since he can average enough points to be in the top 5 every year, on less attempts (48% in the playoffs which is tops among "scorers" and 56% in the regular season, again, tops amongst "scorers"). He is FAR more efficient than Kobe, Anthony, and Durant which are arguabley the best scorers in the game at the moment but if he took as many shots as them, he would probably average 30 a game for the year. lets be real...

Hell, even Russell Westbrook puts up more shot attempts than Lebron
[ Edited by Sims84 on Jun 19, 2013 at 12:23 AM ]
Originally posted by jrg:
Why does EVERY f**kING THREAD have to be LeBron/Bryant/Jordan

f**k.

Dunno. I don't bring it up.
Originally posted by Sims84:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by Sims84:
Lebron averages over 31 PPG in elimination games ...With his back against the wall and everything on the line, he has performed better than anyone in the history of the NBA yet he isn't clutch.... lol yeah ok clutch is not always the last couple of minutes or the last shot, look at the entire picture and for the record, in game winning shot attempts since 2000, Kobe is shooting 30% with Lebron shooting 31% albeit Kobe takes WAAAAAYY more shot attempts (101 to Lebron's 68 I believe) yet Kobe is considered an assassin and Lebron is considered a choke artist? haters gonna hate

The mistake is equating a player's value so completely with PPG and FG%. For the life of me, I don't understand why people are so prone to doing this. LeBron shot the ball 26 times tonight, along with 12 FTs, which is a pretty high amount. This game probably had around 220 possessions in it, meaning that LeBron's high volume shooting still only amounted to about 15% of his possessions on the court, but for some strange reason we treat that 15% like it's 99%.

Lebron shoots less than most of the top scorers which is why he is so good since he can average enough points to be in the top 5 every year, on less attempts (48% in the playoffs which is tops among "scorers" and 56% in the regular season, again, tops amongst "scorers"). He is FAR more efficient than Kobe, Anthony, and Durant which are arguable the best scorers in the game at the moment but if he took as many shots as them, he would probably average 30 a game for the year. lets be real

Did you even read my post?
Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:
Yea...that's a fine statement. But, saying Kobe played poorly because he shot 0-3 in the last 4 minutes and they still won the game because Ron Artest made the game winning 3pt shot seems pretty accurate too.

You guys have the strangest memory.
Originally posted by Leathaface:
I'm not really sure if you are actually looking at +/- and using that to imply that the Heat are better without Lebron...I hope not, because that's just silly.

Really this talk of Lebron diminishing Wade (which I totally disagree with ) and Bosh (partly disagree with) is such a moot point because the Heat have gone to 3 straight finals since Lebron got there.

Of course Miami's made three consecutive Finals. They have an absurd amount of talent and they play in a conference that hasn't had a particularly good #2 team in those 3 years.

Not saying that the Heat are better without LeBron. But they haven't been better with him in this series either. They've performed similarly with him on the court or without him on the court.
[ Edited by LA9erFan on Jun 19, 2013 at 12:25 AM ]
  • 4ML
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Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:
Kobe in game 7...last 4 minutes:

Missed a 19 footer
Missed a FT
MIssed a 3pt shot
Made 2 FTs after game was over

Kobe in game 7...last quarter with team down by 2

1 for 3 from the field
6 of 7 from the FT line
Made 2 FTs after game was over
1 Turnover


lol

Making two free throws when your team is up by 3 with 25 seconds left is "after the game was over?" Does someone wanna tell that to Kawhi Leonard? (Boston immediately hit a 3 pointer to cut it to 2 after that)

And when I see 1-3 FG and 6-7 FT with 1 turnover, I see 8 points on 7 possessions, which is a fantastic yield. He also created 6 FT attempts for Gasol in that 4th quarter, as well as making the post entry pass to Pau, which gave him an excellent look and a made basket. (but no assist)

Leonard choked. Leonard had a lot more pressure on him...he needed to make both to make it a 2 possession game.

That was a terrible game 7 by Kobe...and that's ok. Players have bad games. If Lebron went 1-3 in the 4th quarter, people would be screaming that he's scared of the big moments. I just find that debate stupid. Great players have bad games...bad series...and sometimes even bad playoffs. You measure greatness by how they respond, and Lebron responded today.
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by Sims84:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by Sims84:
Lebron averages over 31 PPG in elimination games ...With his back against the wall and everything on the line, he has performed better than anyone in the history of the NBA yet he isn't clutch.... lol yeah ok clutch is not always the last couple of minutes or the last shot, look at the entire picture and for the record, in game winning shot attempts since 2000, Kobe is shooting 30% with Lebron shooting 31% albeit Kobe takes WAAAAAYY more shot attempts (101 to Lebron's 68 I believe) yet Kobe is considered an assassin and Lebron is considered a choke artist? haters gonna hate

The mistake is equating a player's value so completely with PPG and FG%. For the life of me, I don't understand why people are so prone to doing this. LeBron shot the ball 26 times tonight, along with 12 FTs, which is a pretty high amount. This game probably had around 220 possessions in it, meaning that LeBron's high volume shooting still only amounted to about 15% of his possessions on the court, but for some strange reason we treat that 15% like it's 99%.

Lebron shoots less than most of the top scorers which is why he is so good since he can average enough points to be in the top 5 every year, on less attempts (48% in the playoffs which is tops among "scorers" and 56% in the regular season, again, tops amongst "scorers"). He is FAR more efficient than Kobe, Anthony, and Durant which are arguable the best scorers in the game at the moment but if he took as many shots as them, he would probably average 30 a game for the year. lets be real

Did you even read my post?

So if we don't want discuss how many points per game a player has in big games, nor discuss their FG% (how efficient they are), what do you want to discuss? How he impacted the game with his back against the wall? Hows a triple double sound....
Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:
Leonard choked. Leonard had a lot more pressure on him...he needed to make both to make it a 2 possession game.

That was a terrible game 7 by Kobe...and that's ok. Players have bad games. If Lebron went 1-3 in the 4th quarter, people would be screaming that he's scared of the big moments. I just find that debate stupid. Great players have bad games...bad series...and sometimes even bad playoffs. You measure greatness by how they respond, and Lebron responded today.

Kobe's play was the difference in that game, which is a sentiment that was echoed by Thibodeau as well. Kobe had a "bad game" in people's eyes because he shot like s**t, and that's pretty much all people care about.
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Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:
Yea...that's a fine statement. But, saying Kobe played poorly because he shot 0-3 in the last 4 minutes and they still won the game because Ron Artest made the game winning 3pt shot seems pretty accurate too.

You guys have the strangest memory.

With the game 73 - 76, Artest made a 3pt shot to put the game at 73-79 with a minute left. Celtics hit a 3 after that, Kobe missed a 3 (Pau Gasol got the offensive rebound) with 25 seconds left and passed the ball to Kobe who was fouled. Game was practically over.

Artest's shot was the biggest shot and made it awfully difficult for Celtics to come back from. Gasol was a beast in that game. He shot 6 FTs in that quarter and 4 of them he earned by himself...and had nothing to do with Kobe. I can't tell for the other two.
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Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:
Leonard choked. Leonard had a lot more pressure on him...he needed to make both to make it a 2 possession game.

That was a terrible game 7 by Kobe...and that's ok. Players have bad games. If Lebron went 1-3 in the 4th quarter, people would be screaming that he's scared of the big moments. I just find that debate stupid. Great players have bad games...bad series...and sometimes even bad playoffs. You measure greatness by how they respond, and Lebron responded today.

Kobe's play was the difference in that game, which is a sentiment that was echoed by Thibodeau as well. Kobe had a "bad game" in people's eyes because he shot like s**t, and that's pretty much all people care about.

Sorry man...the footage is on Youtube. Kobe didn't have much impact in that 4th quarter. Artest hit a huge shot and Gasol was a beast, blocking shots and getting offensive rebounds. On top of that, Ray Allen (who Kobe was guarding) had 8 pts in the quarter.
[ Edited by 49ersMyLife on Jun 19, 2013 at 12:44 AM ]
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I feel bad for Artest and Gasol if Kobe is gettin' the credit for this game 7 win.
Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:
With the game 73 - 76, Artest made a 3pt shot to put the game at 73-79 with a minute left. Celtics hit a 3 after that, Kobe missed a 3 (Pau Gasol got the offensive rebound) with 25 seconds left and passed the ball to Kobe who was fouled. Game was practically over.

Artest's shot was the biggest shot and made it awfully difficult for Celtics to come back from. Gasol was a beast in that game. He shot 6 FTs in that quarter and 4 of them he earned by himself...and had nothing to do with Kobe. I can't tell for the other two.

That's not true. At least 4 of those FTs came off of passes from Kobe, and I believe all 6 of them were. Artest's shot was huge, but it certainly didn't seal the game. Boston hit ANOTHER three after Kobe's two FT's, which led to Sasha Vujacic knocking 2 FTs down with a 2 point lead, and as we saw tonight, that doesn't mean that the game is virtually over.

The footage certainly is on YouTube. Go to 8:16 of this video. Kobe's occupying two defenders (Allen & Wallace), which is causing Pierce to play help side defense even though he's defending a guy who's just one pass away. Kobe makes the correct pass to Artest out of the double team, for some reason Artest hesitated, but he still knocked down a shot where the spacing was created by Kobe occupying two defenders 25 feet from the basket.

On the Gasol play, the Lakers were milking clock (up 3) and just looking to get a shot up with around 5 seconds left. The Celtics (very strangely) put Rondo on Gasol, which led to the offensive rebounding opportunity. Kobe didn't create anything here for anyone, but he's also in a low percentage possession. (don't shoot until there's 5 seconds or less on the clock) I wouldn't fault LeBron for missing in that situation either. Very low percentage yield, but you're playing the clock. It's like criticizing an NFL offense for not getting a first down when they're up 6 with 2:15 left and run the ball up the gut 3 times to make their opponent use their timeouts.