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2012-2013 NBA Playoffs Discussion Thread

Go bucks!
Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:
Idk man, missing too many open shots and not feeding the ball inside enough. Every position should go to the post.

I re-watched the game and charted the every half court, offensive possession. Any transition, semi-transition, in bound play, or scramble play is not included. They were charted by the event that led to the shot, and in two ways...low post touches and perimeter events (drives, pick & rolls, isos, etc.), along with the result.

Therefore, if Howard got a low post touch and he kicked it out to MWP and MWP made a 3 (this happened) this is credited to the "low post touch" category. If Nash & Gasol run a pick and roll and Nash lobs it to Howard for a dunk, that's credited as a "perimeter" event. Here were the results. If anyone has any question about the methodology, I'm happy to answer it.

[b]Overall Low Post Plays[/b]

Number of Touches......35
Post Entry Turnovers.....4
Points Generated.........21
Points Per Possession...0.54

[b]Overall Perimeter Plays[/b]

Number of Touches........52
Points Generated...........44
Points Per Possession...0.85

[b]Dwight Howard[/b]

Amount of Touches…20 (17 eligible for PPP)
PPP…………………………0.53

[b]Pau Gasol[/b]

Amount of Touches…..9 (8 eligible for PPP)
PPP…………………………0.75

[b]MWP[/b]

Amount of Touches…..3 (3 eligible for PPP)
PPP………………………….1.33

[b]Antawn Jamison[/b]

Amount of Touches…..3 (3 eligible for PPP)
PPP………………………….0.67




[b]Game Log[/b]

1st Quarter

1) Nash/Howard PnR (Nash makes 2 point jumper) +2
2) Post entry (turnover) 0
1) Nash/ Gasol Pnr (Nash misses 2 point jumper) 0
2) Howard post touch (MWP misses 2 point jumper)
1) Nash/Gasol PnR (Gasol misses 2 point jumper) 0
2) Gasol post touch (Gasol misses 2 point jumper) 0
2) Howard post touch (Howard misses jump hook) 0
2) Howard post touch (Howard misses jumper) 0
3) In bound play (Gasol makes 2 point jumper) +2
1) Nash/Gasol PnR (Nash makes layup) +2
1) Nash/Gasol PnR (Nash misses 2 point jumper) +0
1) Blake drive (Blake turnover) 0
1) Blake drive (Howard makes 2 point jumper) +2
1) MWP drive (Gasol makes 2 point jumper) +2
*2) Howard post touch (Howard gets fouled) N/A
1) Blake/Jamison PnR (Blake turnover)
2) Howard post touch (Howard turnover)
2) Howard post touch (Howard misses jump hook)
1) Blake/Jamison PnR (Blake misses 2 point jumper)
1) Meeks/Jamison PnR (Meeks misses 3 pointer)
1) Meeks drive (Gasol makes layup) +2
1) Blake/Gasol PnR (Gasol misses 2 point jumper)
1) Nash Iso (Nash misses jumper)
2) Jamison post touch (Jamison makes ½ FTs) +1
2) Gasol post touch (Jamison makes layup) +2

2nd Quarter

2) Jamison post touch (Jamison makes 1/2 FTs) +1
2) Jamison post touch (Jamison turnover)
2) Howard post touch (Howard turnover)
1) Nash drive (Meeks missed 3)
1) MWP iso (Meeks makes layup) +2
*2) Howard post touch (Howard draws foul) N/A
2) Howard post touch (Howard makes layup) +2
2) Gasol post touch (Gasol misses jumper)
1) Nash drive (Nash layup) +2
1) Nash/Howard PnR (Gasol misses jumper)
1) Nash/Howard/Gasol PnR (Nash misses 2 point jumper)
2) MWP post touch (Howard makes layup)
1) Gasol/Howard PnR (Gasol misses 2 point jumper)
1) Gasol iso (Howard dunk) +2
2) MWP post entry (MWP turnover)
1) Blake/Howard PnR (Blake makes runner in lane) +2
2) Howard post touch (Howard layup) +2
2) Howard post touch (Howard turnover)
2) Gasol post touch (Gasol turnover)
2) Howard post touch (24 second violation)

3rd Quarter

1) Nash/Gasol PnR (Nash misses 2 point shot)
2) Howard post touch (Howard turnover)
1) Nash drive (Nash turnover)
1) Gasol/Howard PnR (Gasol misses 2 point shot)
1) Blake/Gasol PnR (Blake misses 3 point shot)
1) Nash/Gasol PnR (Nash makes 2 point jumper) +2
2) Howard post touch (Nash misses 3 point shot)
2) MWP post touch (MWP layup) +2
2) MWP post touch (MWP misses jumper)
1) Blake drive (Nash makes 3 pointer) +3
2) Howard post touch (MWP makes 3 pointer) +3
1) Blake drive (Blake makes 2 point jumper) +2
*2) Howard post touch (Howard draws foul)
2) Gasol post touch (Gasol makes jumper in lane) +2
1) Blake drive (Blake misses 2 point jumper)
2) Post entry (Meeks turnover)
2) Howard post touch (Howard turnover)
1) Blake/Howard PnR (Blake makes 2 point jumper) +2
1) Blake/Howard PnR (Jamison misses 3 pointer)
2) Gasol post touch (Gasol makes ½ FTs) +1
1) Blake iso (Jamison makes 2/2 FTs) +2
1) Blake/Gasol PnR (Blake misses runner)
1) Meeks Iso (Meeks makes 2/2 FTs) +2
1) Blake/Gasol PnR (Blake misses layup)

4th quarter

2) Howard post touch (Howard makes jump hook) +2
2) Post entry (Nash turnover)
1) Gasol iso (Gasol makes layup) +2
1) Nash/Gasol PnR (Gasol makes 2 point jumper) +2
*2) Gasol post touch (MWP draws foul)
1) Nash/Howard PnR (Nash misses 2 point jumper)
1) Nash/Gasol PnR (Howard misses layup)
2) Howard post touch (MWP misses 3 pointer)
1) Nash drives (Nash makes 2/2 FTs) +2
2) Gasol post touch (Gasol makes ½ FTs) +1
2) Gasol post touch (Gasol misses jump hook)
1) Gasol iso (Jamison misses 2 point jumper)
1) Gasol iso (Gasol misses 2 point jumper)
1) Nash/Howard PnR (Howard makes layup) +2
2) Howard post touch (Howard makes 0/2 FTs)
1) Nash/Howard PnR (Nash makes layup) +2
1) Nash/Gasol PnR (Nash makes 2/2 FTs) +2
1) Nash/Gasol PnR (Gasol turnover)
2) Howard post touch (Howard makes ½ FTs) +1
3) Hack-a-Howard (Howard makes ½ FTs) +1
1) MWP iso (MWP misses 3 pointer)
1) Blake iso (Blake misses 2 point jumper)
1) Blake iso (Blake makes 3 pointer) +3
1) Blake/Howard PnR (Blake misses 3 pointer)
1) Blake drive (Gasol makes layup) +2
The tl;dr version of that is this.

When the Lakers got the ball in the low post, they scored 0.54 PPP.
When the Lakers didn't get the ball in the low post, they scored 0.85 PPP.

There's a reason that the best (and not coincidentally, most analytical) teams in the league have gone COMPLETELY away from post player and post players. They're not effective. It's an old axiom that's based on different NBA rules. Posting up is one of the least efficient plays in basketball in 2013.
Close game in Miami,

Based on all the pundits discussion I expected the score to be heat 100 to bucks 10 at half time
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Posting up is one of the least efficient plays in basketball in 2013.

Wow.

MBWSHIDWSEDBT*





*Mind blown while shaking head in disbelief, would still EDB, though.


This ain't our daddy's NBA no more, that's for sure. Is this an indictment on rule changes or lack-luster play at the center position in this era?
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:
Idk man, missing too many open shots and not feeding the ball inside enough. Every position should go to the post.

I re-watched the game and charted the every half court, offensive possession. Any transition, semi-transition, in bound play, or scramble play is not included. They were charted by the event that led to the shot, and in two ways...low post touches and perimeter events (drives, pick & rolls, isos, etc.), along with the result.

Therefore, if Howard got a low post touch and he kicked it out to MWP and MWP made a 3 (this happened) this is credited to the "low post touch" category. If Nash & Gasol run a pick and roll and Nash lobs it to Howard for a dunk, that's credited as a "perimeter" event. Here were the results. If anyone has any question about the methodology, I'm happy to answer it.

[b]Overall Low Post Plays[/b]

Number of Touches......35
Post Entry Turnovers.....4
Points Generated.........21
Points Per Possession...0.54

[b]Overall Perimeter Plays[/b]

Number of Touches........52
Points Generated...........44
Points Per Possession...0.85

[b]Dwight Howard[/b]

Amount of Touches…20 (17 eligible for PPP)
PPP…………………………0.53

[b]Pau Gasol[/b]

Amount of Touches…..9 (8 eligible for PPP)
PPP…………………………0.75

[b]MWP[/b]

Amount of Touches…..3 (3 eligible for PPP)
PPP………………………….1.33

[b]Antawn Jamison[/b]

Amount of Touches…..3 (3 eligible for PPP)
PPP………………………….0.67




[b]Game Log[/b]

1st Quarter

1) Nash/Howard PnR (Nash makes 2 point jumper) +2
2) Post entry (turnover) 0
1) Nash/ Gasol Pnr (Nash misses 2 point jumper) 0
2) Howard post touch (MWP misses 2 point jumper)
1) Nash/Gasol PnR (Gasol misses 2 point jumper) 0
2) Gasol post touch (Gasol misses 2 point jumper) 0
2) Howard post touch (Howard misses jump hook) 0
2) Howard post touch (Howard misses jumper) 0
3) In bound play (Gasol makes 2 point jumper) +2
1) Nash/Gasol PnR (Nash makes layup) +2
1) Nash/Gasol PnR (Nash misses 2 point jumper) +0
1) Blake drive (Blake turnover) 0
1) Blake drive (Howard makes 2 point jumper) +2
1) MWP drive (Gasol makes 2 point jumper) +2
*2) Howard post touch (Howard gets fouled) N/A
1) Blake/Jamison PnR (Blake turnover)
2) Howard post touch (Howard turnover)
2) Howard post touch (Howard misses jump hook)
1) Blake/Jamison PnR (Blake misses 2 point jumper)
1) Meeks/Jamison PnR (Meeks misses 3 pointer)
1) Meeks drive (Gasol makes layup) +2
1) Blake/Gasol PnR (Gasol misses 2 point jumper)
1) Nash Iso (Nash misses jumper)
2) Jamison post touch (Jamison makes ½ FTs) +1
2) Gasol post touch (Jamison makes layup) +2

2nd Quarter

2) Jamison post touch (Jamison makes 1/2 FTs) +1
2) Jamison post touch (Jamison turnover)
2) Howard post touch (Howard turnover)
1) Nash drive (Meeks missed 3)
1) MWP iso (Meeks makes layup) +2
*2) Howard post touch (Howard draws foul) N/A
2) Howard post touch (Howard makes layup) +2
2) Gasol post touch (Gasol misses jumper)
1) Nash drive (Nash layup) +2
1) Nash/Howard PnR (Gasol misses jumper)
1) Nash/Howard/Gasol PnR (Nash misses 2 point jumper)
2) MWP post touch (Howard makes layup)
1) Gasol/Howard PnR (Gasol misses 2 point jumper)
1) Gasol iso (Howard dunk) +2
2) MWP post entry (MWP turnover)
1) Blake/Howard PnR (Blake makes runner in lane) +2
2) Howard post touch (Howard layup) +2
2) Howard post touch (Howard turnover)
2) Gasol post touch (Gasol turnover)
2) Howard post touch (24 second violation)

3rd Quarter

1) Nash/Gasol PnR (Nash misses 2 point shot)
2) Howard post touch (Howard turnover)
1) Nash drive (Nash turnover)
1) Gasol/Howard PnR (Gasol misses 2 point shot)
1) Blake/Gasol PnR (Blake misses 3 point shot)
1) Nash/Gasol PnR (Nash makes 2 point jumper) +2
2) Howard post touch (Nash misses 3 point shot)
2) MWP post touch (MWP layup) +2
2) MWP post touch (MWP misses jumper)
1) Blake drive (Nash makes 3 pointer) +3
2) Howard post touch (MWP makes 3 pointer) +3
1) Blake drive (Blake makes 2 point jumper) +2
*2) Howard post touch (Howard draws foul)
2) Gasol post touch (Gasol makes jumper in lane) +2
1) Blake drive (Blake misses 2 point jumper)
2) Post entry (Meeks turnover)
2) Howard post touch (Howard turnover)
1) Blake/Howard PnR (Blake makes 2 point jumper) +2
1) Blake/Howard PnR (Jamison misses 3 pointer)
2) Gasol post touch (Gasol makes ½ FTs) +1
1) Blake iso (Jamison makes 2/2 FTs) +2
1) Blake/Gasol PnR (Blake misses runner)
1) Meeks Iso (Meeks makes 2/2 FTs) +2
1) Blake/Gasol PnR (Blake misses layup)

4th quarter

2) Howard post touch (Howard makes jump hook) +2
2) Post entry (Nash turnover)
1) Gasol iso (Gasol makes layup) +2
1) Nash/Gasol PnR (Gasol makes 2 point jumper) +2
*2) Gasol post touch (MWP draws foul)
1) Nash/Howard PnR (Nash misses 2 point jumper)
1) Nash/Gasol PnR (Howard misses layup)
2) Howard post touch (MWP misses 3 pointer)
1) Nash drives (Nash makes 2/2 FTs) +2
2) Gasol post touch (Gasol makes ½ FTs) +1
2) Gasol post touch (Gasol misses jump hook)
1) Gasol iso (Jamison misses 2 point jumper)
1) Gasol iso (Gasol misses 2 point jumper)
1) Nash/Howard PnR (Howard makes layup) +2
2) Howard post touch (Howard makes 0/2 FTs)
1) Nash/Howard PnR (Nash makes layup) +2
1) Nash/Gasol PnR (Nash makes 2/2 FTs) +2
1) Nash/Gasol PnR (Gasol turnover)
2) Howard post touch (Howard makes ½ FTs) +1
3) Hack-a-Howard (Howard makes ½ FTs) +1
1) MWP iso (MWP misses 3 pointer)
1) Blake iso (Blake misses 2 point jumper)
1) Blake iso (Blake makes 3 pointer) +3
1) Blake/Howard PnR (Blake misses 3 pointer)
1) Blake drive (Gasol makes layup) +2

Man! I came in here to post this exact same thing.
Westbrook passes while in the air more than anyone I've ever seen. Always bugs me.
Originally posted by IWASATTHECATCH:
Wow.

MBWSHIDWSEDBT*





*Mind blown while shaking head in disbelief, would still EDB, though.


This ain't our daddy's NBA no more, that's for sure. Is this an indictment on rule changes or lack-luster play at the center position in this era?

NBA is on life support. Barely anyone I know still watches.

- No defense
- Teams aren't serious about winning: Thunder & Grizzlies (trading away star players for financial benefit)
- Lack of competition. Heat (team with 3 HOF's) are about to 3peat

It's a 8 month long sport with 2 weeks worth of watching. Only thing that can save this NBA season is a long Heat-Spurs Final
[ Edited by infinite_limit on Apr 21, 2013 at 7:51 PM ]
Originally posted by pantstickle:
Man! I came in here to post this exact same thing.

lol
Originally posted by infinite_limit:
NBA is on life support. Barely anyone I know still watches.

- No defense
- Teams aren't serious about winning: Thunder & Grizzlies (trading away star players for financial benefit)
- Lack of competition. Heat (team with 3 HOF's) are about to 3peat

It's a 8 month long sport with 2 weeks worth of watching. Only thing that can save this NBA season is a long Heat-Spurs Final

The Heat got 2 last year?
Originally posted by IWASATTHECATCH:
Wow.

MBWSHIDWSEDBT*





*Mind blown while shaking head in disbelief, would still EDB, though.


This ain't our daddy's NBA no more, that's for sure. Is this an indictment on rule changes or lack-luster play at the center position in this era?

The vast majority of it is rule changes. The short version is this...the spacing of the NBA has changed. Defenders are allowed to be in different places now.

As a result, post catches are often farther away from the hoop than they used to be, and guys can bother a post player but still get back to the shooter. Then, since it's a skill that's been de-emphasized, you don't really have players working on their post game anymore. So I guess it's kinda both, but the rule changes are what led to this.
Originally posted by pantstickle:
The Heat got 2 last year?

They will easily win this year. Huge favorites going into next year
Trading harden away means the thunder aren't serious about winning?

Guess the 49ers weren't either when we traded alex
Originally posted by ads_2006:
Trading harden away means the thunder aren't serious about winning?

Guess the 49ers weren't either when we traded alex

Harden was the 2nd best Thunder. Furthermore the NBA only has 7 or 8 players that even see the court.

Trading Harden is the equivalent of trading Patrick Willis. If not more
[ Edited by infinite_limit on Apr 21, 2013 at 8:12 PM ]
Who the hell is this guy?