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2012-2013 NBA Playoffs Discussion Thread

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
I still think Memphis beats OKC .

Yus
  • vaden
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Spurs vs. Grizzlies - yawn Will get the worst ratings in NBA history for a conference championship.
Memphis is absolutely awesome to watch. You have to appreciate how well they can execute their offense through Z-Bo and Gasol. Conley is such an underrated point guard.
Originally posted by vaden:
Durant's not quite as great as Lebron, but so much funner to watch. Westbrook has been holding him back, needs to go so they can get a real PG.

Not easy to find. Westbrook is a great player. People are crazy when they blame Westbrook. Durant can easily demand the ball more and be more aggressive when Westbrook is playing. He doesn't do that.
  • vaden
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Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:
Not easy to find. Westbrook is a great player. People are crazy when they blame Westbrook. Durant can easily demand the ball more and be more aggressive when Westbrook is playing. He doesn't do that.

Exactly - he doesn't and he won't, but with Westbrook out Durant is taking 5 more shots a game. Westbrook took the 3rd-most shots per game in the NBA, 6.5 more per game than Chris Paul. He thinks this is his team.
Originally posted by vaden:
Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:
Not easy to find. Westbrook is a great player. People are crazy when they blame Westbrook. Durant can easily demand the ball more and be more aggressive when Westbrook is playing. He doesn't do that.

Exactly - he doesn't and he won't, but with Westbrook out Durant is taking 5 more shots a game. Westbrook took the 3rd-most shots per game in the NBA, 6.5 more per game than Chris Paul. He thinks this is his team.

That's Kevin Durant's fault more than Westbrook's. Durant is not demanding ball. He's trying to play more like a point forward (he was doing that when Westbrook was healthy too). With Harden out, Durant has done this all season long. He is a better player when he plays as a scorer rather than a play-maker. Durant should be taking 10-12 shots more with Westbrook out, not 5...but he thinks he needs to play like Lebron.

Lebron is not a pure scorer and is not as great a player when he is focused on scoring, and Durant is not as good a play-maker as he thinks. He isn't as great a player when he is focused on getting his team-mates involved. He was trying too hard today...which lead to 5 turnovers. That's Durant's problem.

Westbrook is a darn good compliment to Durant. He provides energy on every possession, and attacks ALL the time - which isn't Durant's DNA. Yes, Westbrook takes some ill-advised shots, but he is a young player who is a SG at his core.
Originally posted by TheSixthRing:
What's with all this Gay bashing in here?

Lol
  • vaden
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Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:
That's Kevin Durant's fault more than Westbrook's. Durant is not demanding ball. He's trying to play more like a point forward (he was doing that when Westbrook was healthy too). With Harden out, Durant has done this all season long. He is a better player when he plays as a scorer rather than a play-maker. Durant should be taking 10-12 shots more with Westbrook out, not 5...but he thinks he needs to play like Lebron.

Lebron is not a pure scorer and is not as great a player when he is focused on scoring, and Durant is not as good a play-maker as he thinks. He isn't as great a player when he is focused on getting his team-mates involved. He was trying too hard today...which lead to 5 turnovers. That's Durant's problem.

Westbrook is a darn good compliment to Durant. He provides energy on every possession, and attacks ALL the time - which isn't Durant's DNA. Yes, Westbrook takes some ill-advised shots, but he is a young player who is a SG at his core.

Durant is being noticeably more aggressive, but he's facing an elite defense and being doubled a lot more because of the lack of talent around him. I'm all for shifting Westbrook to SG and getting a real PG to facilitate and encourage Durant to be aggressive, but I expect Westbrook will continue his ball-hogging and it will continue limiting Durant. Yes, it's Durant's fault but if he's not going to fix the problem, management should do it for him.
I thought seeing OKC recently would be evidence of how valuable Westbrook is, not evidence that they gotta trade him so the team gets worse while Durant gets more touches. He's one of the best guys in the league at driving to the hoop (9.3 drives per game, 3rd best in the league), only shoots on about half of his drives (well below average for a guard), and only turns the ball over 5% of the time. He's a guy who compromises the defense on a regular basis, and OKC's offense is hurt tremendously by him being out.

Championships aren't won by "real PGs" very often. In the last 20 years, most of the PGs that have won the titles have either been spot up shooters that didn't run the offense (Armstrong, Paxson, Harper, Fisher, Chalmers = 12 titles), or score-first PGs (Cassell/Smith, Parker, Billups = 5 titles). The only true PGs who have won in the last 20 years were Avery Johnson in '99, Rajon Rondo in '08, and Jason Kidd in '11.

You can absolutely win a title with a guy like Westbrook. The only reason he doesn't have a ring already is because they ran into a better team that didn't have a true PG.
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
I thought seeing OKC recently would be evidence of how valuable Westbrook is, not evidence that they gotta trade him so the team gets worse while Durant gets more touches. He's one of the best guys in the league at driving to the hoop (9.3 drives per game, 3rd best in the league), only shoots on about half of his drives (well below average for a guard), and only turns the ball over 5% of the time. He's a guy who compromises the defense on a regular basis, and OKC's offense is hurt tremendously by him being out.

Championships aren't won by "real PGs" very often. In the last 20 years, most of the PGs that have won the titles have either been spot up shooters that didn't run the offense (Armstrong, Paxson, Harper, Fisher, Chalmers = 12 titles), or score-first PGs (Cassell/Smith, Parker, Billups = 5 titles). The only true PGs who have won in the last 20 years were Avery Johnson in '99, Rajon Rondo in '08, and Jason Kidd in '11.

You can absolutely win a title with a guy like Westbrook. The only reason he doesn't have a ring already is because they ran into a better team that didn't have a true PG.

People are realizing how important Westbrook has been for OKC and for Durant. He is the only guy who consistently attacks the rim and provides so much energy to the team. That keeps everyone on defense on their heels going back, rather than attacking the ball-handler (whoever that is on a given possession).

It's weird...OKC looks dull and lethargic playing in front of that electrifying crowd with the 2nd best player in the league. Don't see them going to conference finals.
[ Edited by 49ersMyLife on May 8, 2013 at 11:44 AM ]
Originally posted by vaden:
Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:
That's Kevin Durant's fault more than Westbrook's. Durant is not demanding ball. He's trying to play more like a point forward (he was doing that when Westbrook was healthy too). With Harden out, Durant has done this all season long. He is a better player when he plays as a scorer rather than a play-maker. Durant should be taking 10-12 shots more with Westbrook out, not 5...but he thinks he needs to play like Lebron.

Lebron is not a pure scorer and is not as great a player when he is focused on scoring, and Durant is not as good a play-maker as he thinks. He isn't as great a player when he is focused on getting his team-mates involved. He was trying too hard today...which lead to 5 turnovers. That's Durant's problem.

Westbrook is a darn good compliment to Durant. He provides energy on every possession, and attacks ALL the time - which isn't Durant's DNA. Yes, Westbrook takes some ill-advised shots, but he is a young player who is a SG at his core.

Durant is being noticeably more aggressive, but he's facing an elite defense and being doubled a lot more because of the lack of talent around him. I'm all for shifting Westbrook to SG and getting a real PG to facilitate and encourage Durant to be aggressive, but I expect Westbrook will continue his ball-hogging and it will continue limiting Durant. Yes, it's Durant's fault but if he's not going to fix the problem, management should do it for him.

Yes, he is handling the ball more, but that's just because he has no choice. He's not all that great of a passer anyway. He has improved a bit but still had 3.5 turnovers with 4.6 assists a game this season. That's not impressive at all.

OKC lost their no.2 and no.3 player from last year. He shot 21 shots a game against Miami in the Finals last year. He is shooting about 22 shots a game since Westbrook's injury.

If anything, what OKC is lacking is another guy who can create shots for himself and others. Durant is trying to fill that role as well, but doesn't have the skills to create quality shots for others consistently. This is why I felt trading Harden was a bad move.
Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:
People are realizing how important Westbrook has been for OKC and for Durant. He is the only guy who consistently attacks the rim and provides so much energy to the team. That keeps everyone on defense on their heels going back, rather than attacking the ball-handler (whoever that is on a given possession).

It's weird...OKC looks dull and lethargic playing in front of that electrifying crowd with the 2nd best player in the league. Don't see them going to conference finals.

They sure do. I knew that they'd be hurt by losing Westbrook, but I didn't think it would be this severe.
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Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:
Yes, he is handling the ball more, but that's just because he has no choice. He's not all that great of a passer anyway. He has improved a bit but still had 3.5 turnovers with 4.6 assists a game this season. That's not impressive at all.

OKC lost their no.2 and no.3 player from last year. He shot 21 shots a game against Miami in the Finals last year. He is shooting about 22 shots a game since Westbrook's injury.

If anything, what OKC is lacking is another guy who can create shots for himself and others. Durant is trying to fill that role as well, but doesn't have the skills to create quality shots for others consistently. This is why I felt trading Harden was a bad move.

And Westbrook shot 24 shots a game in the Finals last year, while once again having a poor fg% that was way below Durant's. I'm not saying OKC isn't hurt by the absence of Westbrook, I'm saying Durant specifically is better without him, and since he's their best player and the best pure scorer in the game, the offense should be built around him, not Westbrook.
Originally posted by vaden:
Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:
Yes, he is handling the ball more, but that's just because he has no choice. He's not all that great of a passer anyway. He has improved a bit but still had 3.5 turnovers with 4.6 assists a game this season. That's not impressive at all.

OKC lost their no.2 and no.3 player from last year. He shot 21 shots a game against Miami in the Finals last year. He is shooting about 22 shots a game since Westbrook's injury.

If anything, what OKC is lacking is another guy who can create shots for himself and others. Durant is trying to fill that role as well, but doesn't have the skills to create quality shots for others consistently. This is why I felt trading Harden was a bad move.

And Westbrook shot 24 shots a game in the Finals last year, while once again having a poor fg% that was way below Durant's. I'm not saying OKC isn't hurt by the absence of Westbrook, I'm saying Durant specifically is better without him, and since he's their best player and the best pure scorer in the game, the offense should be built around him, not Westbrook.

Of course, we all want Durant to take more shots. Durant takes good shots in the flow of the game during the first 3 quarters and is able to impose his will in the 4th quarter because of that. He doesn't have to go at 110% for the first 3 quarters. As Westbrook matures, he will learn to take better shots, but his aggressiveness makes OKC very lethal. He impacts the game in a way Durant just can not, and few can in the league.

I don't think Durant is all that better without Westbrook either. Outside of 1 game, he has shot the ball at his average or below. His assists are up and so are the turnovers. He isn't as great in the 4th either because he is getting a little tired and defenses can focus solely on him.

The current OKC offense is built around Durant. It lacks a punch against a good team because he is not a great passer or a ball-handler. I'm not sure if there are any pure PGs in the game today that will make the current offense any better. They are 3-3 since Westbrook went out...and they got outscored in that 4th quarter as well when Westbrook got hurt. Durant needs a ball-dominant PG or SG on his team. Westbrook is that guy. He has flaws in his game, just like any other player but he compliments Durant really well, IMO.