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Alabama vs Notre Dame: BCS Championship

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by 9erfan4life:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Interesting that one of the last few games was the college all-stars (which wasn't even a cohesive team, just a collection of players brought together for this game) came close to beating the reigning super bowl champion Steelers in 1975, 21-14. So I wonder what would've happened if the reigning college national champions of that year (as a team, with experience in their system and familiarity with each other) played the worst NFL team from that year. Or even if this college all-star squad (who came close to beating the world champs) would've played the worst NFL team from that year, instead of the best.

And yes, it's very much a different game in the NFL now than it is in the 70's, but the question is why? Part of the answer to why the NFL is so different now, with bigger, faster, stronger more athletic players is that college players are bigger, faster, stronger and more athletic than they were in the 70's. There's a clear gap between the two (the best college team and the worst NFL team), but it's not the order of magnitude that some people are making it out to be.

Just my crazy opinion.

Yes, but the converse of the "they weren't even a cohesive team" point is that the Steelers were playing a meaningless exhibition game in August, whereas that College All-Star team was playing a group of their idols. I'm sure that game meant a lot more to the kids than the pros. I don't think guys like Franco Harris or Joe Greene were gonna go balls to the wall in that situation and risk injury. I don't know what was customary at the time, but I also wonder if the NFL teams would play their starters for the entire game, or if they'd treat it in a similar fashion to the way preseason games are handled now.

We've all seen what a joke the Pro Bowl is, with grown men playing grab ass for 4 quarters while trying to not get hurt, and it doesn't bear any resemblance to real football. It wouldn't surprise me at all if this exhibition was similar in nature, at least from the NFL side of things.

If there was actually something at stake for both an NFL team and a college team, I think the college team would get smoked. Too much of a size/speed discrepancy up front on both sides of the ball, IMO.

Probably true, but since this hypothetical would only ever be an exhibition game, I'm not sure you could ever get an NFL team to really play up to its fullest potential. So yes, that's an important dynamic.

if KC played Bama

the game would look like last nights game with Bama looking like ND

Just looking at KC starting defense they avg 4 years of NFL exp you just can't match that with college players
Strength, speed and knowledge is just far greater

Not to mention the rules are different to make the college game easier

That's your opinion and it's a valid one...however:

1.) It doesn't make it a fact though
2.) experience doesn't always win you football games
3.) having a superior squad (in terms of speed, strength and knowledge) doesn't automatically guarantee you victories. Sure helps, but doesn't lock in a win every single time.

So do you think Valdosta State could beat Alabama?
Originally posted by 9erfan4life:
So do you think Valdosta State could beat Alabama?

you are assuming Alabama has sub-par talent with this example though. In fact, many Alabama players will end up in the NFL. The valdosta players will not end up in the SEC or the NFL.

While I agree college teams could not play with an NFL team, it would be because of sheer depth at every position, not just a few key players.

I expect better analogies from you Lance.
Originally posted by blizzuntz:
Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
Originally posted by blizzuntz:
we run it maybe 4 times a YEAR. Ask your self why we only run it 4 times a year

and how successful have we been at it?

Yeah but the key to an option is it only takes one time for it to work and it will go for a huge gain. Remember Kaepernick running a long a TD in against Miami? Its kind of a feast or famine type of running play.

I agree. But the point I was making is that in college many teams can live and die by the option. This is Bc the lateral speed of LBs in no where close to NFL LB whose pursuit speed is too much and NFL QBs would get killed.

The speed of the NFL is too much.

In just quantifying/comparing roster speed (as if that's the only thing important in football....clearly it's not), you'll find that the best SEC teams match up pretty well to the worst NFL teams in this area, specifically at the skill positions. You may not find exactly as many 4.3, 4.4, 4.5 guys on a top SEC roster as you would in the worst NFL team, but it's probably not far behind. So as I said in an earlier post, we're not talking order of magnitude greater here to the point where it's insurmountable.
Originally posted by Dshearn:
Originally posted by sacniner:
Any NFL team would rape and pillage any college team. It would be ugly. To think otherwise, is insane. NFL players are insanely bigger and faster than in the 70s.

college teams are insanely bigger and faster then in the 70s.

NFL speed and size is less rare now then in the 70s.

the line between fringe NFL players is as thin as it has ever been.

in the pre season the NFL cuts down 100s of fringe players that have NFL size and speed.

The fringe NFL guys are the best of the best in college though. And, if a college team played an NFL team in a real game there wouldn't be a bunch of "fringe" rookie players playing. It would be NFL starters playing.

In regards to the rarity of NFL size and speed, I disagree. The elite skill sets are rare. And the skills are FAR superior now. The gimmick offense stuff works in the highest levels of college ranks, but has not consistently worked in the NFL. There is a reason for that: the players are too good.
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by blizzuntz:
Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
Originally posted by blizzuntz:
we run it maybe 4 times a YEAR. Ask your self why we only run it 4 times a year

and how successful have we been at it?

Yeah but the key to an option is it only takes one time for it to work and it will go for a huge gain. Remember Kaepernick running a long a TD in against Miami? Its kind of a feast or famine type of running play.

I agree. But the point I was making is that in college many teams can live and die by the option. This is Bc the lateral speed of LBs in no where close to NFL LB whose pursuit speed is too much and NFL QBs would get killed.

The speed of the NFL is too much.

In just quantifying/comparing roster speed (as if that's the only thing important in football....clearly it's not), you'll find that the best SEC teams match up pretty well to the worst NFL teams in this area, specifically at the skill positions. You may not find exactly as many 4.3, 4.4, 4.5 guys on a top SEC roster as you would in the worst NFL team, but it's probably not far behind. So as I said in an earlier post, we're not talking order of magnitude greater here to the point where it's insurmountable.

I'm talking about game speed, not on a track.

Alabama may have 9-10 players who are NFL ready... What about the other 40 players matching up against NFL talent?
Originally posted by Rubberneck36:
Originally posted by 9erfan4life:
So do you think Valdosta State could beat Alabama?

you are assuming Alabama has sub-par talent with this example though. In fact, many Alabama players will end up in the NFL. The valdosta players will not end up in the SEC or the NFL.

While I agree college teams could not play with an NFL team, it would be because of sheer depth at every position, not just a few key players.

I expect better analogies from you Lance.
?

no not at all

If he thinks a college team can beat and NFL team he should think the best team in Div 1A could beat the best Div II team

Which I think is rather silly

It would be like and NFL team playing against the college all star team

Guys who have been in the NFL for years playing against rookies

It's like saying the 3rd string players on Bama's team could beat the starters

I'm not buying it
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Probably true, but since this hypothetical would only ever be an exhibition game, I'm not sure you could ever get an NFL team to really play up to its fullest potential. So yes, that's an important dynamic.

Fair enough. I thought the spirit of the question was whether or not a team like Alabama could beat an NFL team in a competitive environment, with the implication being that they're SO good that they're practically a pro team themselves.

In an exhibition game that no one cared about...sure, they could beat an NFL squad.
So lets just set this up

KC vs Bama

so what size ball are they gonna use?
One foot in or two?
15 yard PI or spot?
kicking off from?
hash marks, where the f**k they gonna go?

lol
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Probably true, but since this hypothetical would only ever be an exhibition game, I'm not sure you could ever get an NFL team to really play up to its fullest potential. So yes, that's an important dynamic.

Fair enough. I thought the spirit of the question was whether or not a team like Alabama could beat an NFL team in a competitive environment, with the implication being that they're SO good that they're practically a pro team themselves.

In an exhibition game that no one cared about...sure, they could beat an NFL squad.

Yep. That is why the College All Stars actually beat NFL teams a few times a few decades ago. The game was a complete exhibition. Make the game really count with the NFL team playing 100% on every play with all their starters and I just dont see Alabama able to win.
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Probably true, but since this hypothetical would only ever be an exhibition game, I'm not sure you could ever get an NFL team to really play up to its fullest potential. So yes, that's an important dynamic.

Fair enough. I thought the spirit of the question was whether or not a team like Alabama could beat an NFL team in a competitive environment, with the implication being that they're SO good that they're practically a pro team themselves.

In an exhibition game that no one cared about...sure, they could beat an NFL squad.

Yep. That is why the College All Stars actually beat NFL teams a few times a few decades ago. The game was a complete exhibition. Make the game really count with the NFL team playing 100% on every play with all their starters and I just dont see Alabama able to win.

I was going to say the same thing. In a KC vs. Alabama game, the KC players wouldn't care and 'Bama would be playing like its their Super Bowl. Could you imagine being on 'Bama and beating an NFL team? What better way to move up the draft board.
Originally posted by 9erfan4life:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by 9erfan4life:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Interesting that one of the last few games was the college all-stars (which wasn't even a cohesive team, just a collection of players brought together for this game) came close to beating the reigning super bowl champion Steelers in 1975, 21-14. So I wonder what would've happened if the reigning college national champions of that year (as a team, with experience in their system and familiarity with each other) played the worst NFL team from that year. Or even if this college all-star squad (who came close to beating the world champs) would've played the worst NFL team from that year, instead of the best.

And yes, it's very much a different game in the NFL now than it is in the 70's, but the question is why? Part of the answer to why the NFL is so different now, with bigger, faster, stronger more athletic players is that college players are bigger, faster, stronger and more athletic than they were in the 70's. There's a clear gap between the two (the best college team and the worst NFL team), but it's not the order of magnitude that some people are making it out to be.

Just my crazy opinion.

Yes, but the converse of the "they weren't even a cohesive team" point is that the Steelers were playing a meaningless exhibition game in August, whereas that College All-Star team was playing a group of their idols. I'm sure that game meant a lot more to the kids than the pros. I don't think guys like Franco Harris or Joe Greene were gonna go balls to the wall in that situation and risk injury. I don't know what was customary at the time, but I also wonder if the NFL teams would play their starters for the entire game, or if they'd treat it in a similar fashion to the way preseason games are handled now.

We've all seen what a joke the Pro Bowl is, with grown men playing grab ass for 4 quarters while trying to not get hurt, and it doesn't bear any resemblance to real football. It wouldn't surprise me at all if this exhibition was similar in nature, at least from the NFL side of things.

If there was actually something at stake for both an NFL team and a college team, I think the college team would get smoked. Too much of a size/speed discrepancy up front on both sides of the ball, IMO.

Probably true, but since this hypothetical would only ever be an exhibition game, I'm not sure you could ever get an NFL team to really play up to its fullest potential. So yes, that's an important dynamic.

if KC played Bama

the game would look like last nights game with Bama looking like ND

Just looking at KC starting defense they avg 4 years of NFL exp you just can't match that with college players
Strength, speed and knowledge is just far greater

Not to mention the rules are different to make the college game easier

That's your opinion and it's a valid one...however:

1.) It doesn't make it a fact though
2.) experience doesn't always win you football games
3.) having a superior squad (in terms of speed, strength and knowledge) doesn't automatically guarantee you victories. Sure helps, but doesn't lock in a win every single time.

So do you think Valdosta State could beat Alabama?

No, because you have MAYBE 1 player on that Valdosta St. roster than is NFL caliber, and even that's stretching it. Whereas:

- Alabama has 4-5 NFL caliber players on its offensive line alone and probably 2-3 first round picks among them (Kuandjio, Fluker, Jones, Warmack and maybe Williams)
- 1-2 likely first/2nd round RBs (Lacy and Yeldon)
- 1-2 likely first/2nd round WRs (Cooper definitely, maybe Norwood and Bell)
- 1-2 first round defensive lineman (definitely Williams, Dial in the 2nd maybe)
- 1-2 first round linebackers (definitely Moseley and eventually the 6'6", 250lb soph sensation Hubbard)
- the top CB in the country and high 1st rounder (Milliner)
- a handful of 3-7 round guys that make up the rest of your squad (McCarron, Damion Square, Robert Lester, Nico Johnson, Belue, Clinton-Dix, etc., etc., etc.)

So no to your question since they don't have the equivalent talent to compete at that particular level. Anything is possible, but some things aren't likely (like Valdosta St beating Alabama). Clearly, Alabama has the type of talent to at least make a game against the worst NFL team, a fight worth watching.
[ Edited by GhostofFredDean74 on Jan 8, 2013 at 10:45 AM ]
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by 9erfan4life:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by 9erfan4life:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Interesting that one of the last few games was the college all-stars (which wasn't even a cohesive team, just a collection of players brought together for this game) came close to beating the reigning super bowl champion Steelers in 1975, 21-14. So I wonder what would've happened if the reigning college national champions of that year (as a team, with experience in their system and familiarity with each other) played the worst NFL team from that year. Or even if this college all-star squad (who came close to beating the world champs) would've played the worst NFL team from that year, instead of the best.

And yes, it's very much a different game in the NFL now than it is in the 70's, but the question is why? Part of the answer to why the NFL is so different now, with bigger, faster, stronger more athletic players is that college players are bigger, faster, stronger and more athletic than they were in the 70's. There's a clear gap between the two (the best college team and the worst NFL team), but it's not the order of magnitude that some people are making it out to be.

Just my crazy opinion.

Yes, but the converse of the "they weren't even a cohesive team" point is that the Steelers were playing a meaningless exhibition game in August, whereas that College All-Star team was playing a group of their idols. I'm sure that game meant a lot more to the kids than the pros. I don't think guys like Franco Harris or Joe Greene were gonna go balls to the wall in that situation and risk injury. I don't know what was customary at the time, but I also wonder if the NFL teams would play their starters for the entire game, or if they'd treat it in a similar fashion to the way preseason games are handled now.

We've all seen what a joke the Pro Bowl is, with grown men playing grab ass for 4 quarters while trying to not get hurt, and it doesn't bear any resemblance to real football. It wouldn't surprise me at all if this exhibition was similar in nature, at least from the NFL side of things.

If there was actually something at stake for both an NFL team and a college team, I think the college team would get smoked. Too much of a size/speed discrepancy up front on both sides of the ball, IMO.

Probably true, but since this hypothetical would only ever be an exhibition game, I'm not sure you could ever get an NFL team to really play up to its fullest potential. So yes, that's an important dynamic.

if KC played Bama

the game would look like last nights game with Bama looking like ND

Just looking at KC starting defense they avg 4 years of NFL exp you just can't match that with college players
Strength, speed and knowledge is just far greater

Not to mention the rules are different to make the college game easier

That's your opinion and it's a valid one...however:

1.) It doesn't make it a fact though
2.) experience doesn't always win you football games
3.) having a superior squad (in terms of speed, strength and knowledge) doesn't automatically guarantee you victories. Sure helps, but doesn't lock in a win every single time.

So do you think Valdosta State could beat Alabama?

No, because you have MAYBE 1 player on that Valdosta St. roster than is NFL caliber, and even that's stretching it. Whereas:

- Alabama has 4-5 NFL caliber players on its offensive line alone and probably 2-3 first round picks among them (Kuandjio, Fluker, Jones, Warmack and maybe Williams)
- 1-2 likely first/2nd round RBs (Lacy and Yeldon)
- 1-2 likely first/2nd round WRs (Cooper definitely, maybe Norwood and Bell)
- 1-2 first round defensive lineman (definitely Williams, Dial in the 2nd maybe)
- 1-2 first round linebackers (definitely Moseley and eventually the 6'6", 250lb soph sensation Hubbard)
- the top CB in the country and high 1st rounder (Milliner)
- a handful of 3-7 round guys that make up the rest of your squad (McCarron, Damion Square, Robert Lester, Nico Johnson, Belue, Clinton-Dix, etc., etc., etc.)

So no to your question since they don't have the equivalent talent to compete at that particular level. Anything is possible, but some things aren't likely (like Valdosta St beating Alabama). Clearly, Alabama has the type of talent to at least make a game against the worst NFL team, a fight worth watching.

Agreed, anything is possible and some aren't likely (like Bama beating KC)

So I say they do it
NFL rules
Bama vs KC

IF KC wins they get to keep the #1 pick and draft whoever they want
IF Bama wins KC must draft all Alabama players

do it
[ Edited by 9erfan4life on Jan 8, 2013 at 10:49 AM ]
Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Probably true, but since this hypothetical would only ever be an exhibition game, I'm not sure you could ever get an NFL team to really play up to its fullest potential. So yes, that's an important dynamic.

Fair enough. I thought the spirit of the question was whether or not a team like Alabama could beat an NFL team in a competitive environment, with the implication being that they're SO good that they're practically a pro team themselves.

In an exhibition game that no one cared about...sure, they could beat an NFL squad.

Yep. That is why the College All Stars actually beat NFL teams a few times a few decades ago. The game was a complete exhibition. Make the game really count with the NFL team playing 100% on every play with all their starters and I just dont see Alabama able to win.

I was going to say the same thing. In a KC vs. Alabama game, the KC players wouldn't care and 'Bama would be playing like its their Super Bowl. Could you imagine being on 'Bama and beating an NFL team? What better way to move up the draft board.

And that's definitely a key factor, no doubt about it. All things being equal and each team playing balls out like they would during a regular season game, I don't see an NFL team losing to a college squad....any college squad. Possible, but not likely...I'll concede that. But as I said earlier, I don't think the gap between the absolute worst NFL team and the clear-cut best college team is as huge as some make it out to be.
Valdosta St could indeed beat Bama, because Billy Jean King beat Riggs in a tennis match. Therefore anything in this world is possible.
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