11 Time WS Champion St. Louis Cardinals Thread

Speaking of Molina, he has the day off tonight..

1. Matt Carpenter (L) 2B
2. Carlos Beltran (S) RF
3. Matt Holliday (R) DH
4. Allen Craig (R) LF
5. Matt Adams (L) 1B
6. David Freese (R) 3B
7. Jon Jay (L) CF
8. Tony Cruz (R) C
9. Daniel Descalso (L) SS

Great article on Matt Carpenter..The guy has now played 1B, 2B, 3B, RF this season

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/36405/matt-carpenter-cardinals-unsung-hero

Tyler Lyons again

7IP
2H
1ER
1BB
5K

W 34-17

Now 20-9 on the road

Originally posted by jrg:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by jrg:

[b]The guy will win his MVP before he is done[/b]...his offense is coming around and his defense, managing of the pitching staff is out of this world.

"LOL, good one!"

Larry is probably right though...he won't because all anyone looks at are offensive numbers.

I'm not talking offensive numbers..because I know that is how you'll respond. Your next will be the MVP (which is based around offense...as Larry said) and WS (Molina has 2).. His defense..ability to block the plate...shuts down running games...an extra coach on the roster..his management of the pitching staff. You notice we lost one of the known great pitching coaches Dave Duncan and we haven't missed a beat? Who is still behind the plate? If you don't watch Cardinals games, you truly don't understand how good this guy is.

He is often mentioned as the best catcher in baseball by many people.

Im well aware of how good Molina is. I think most baseball fans understand he is the best defensive catcher in baseball. But, as an overall baseball player, and asset to his team, I still think Buster Posey is, and always will be the better player.

Barring another major injury, Posey is going to be the Johnny Bench of this generation. Molina is the most well-rounded catcher in baseball, but not the best.

Im not sure people outside the Giants fanbase understand quite how big of an impact Posey has made on the team. As soon as he came up in 2010 (3 years ago today actually), he made an impact as if we traded for a star player. As a 23 year old rookie, he put the team on his back and led both an offense and a pitching staff to a WS title.

In 2011 his ankle is shattered, and our season is lost because of it.

He comes back in 2012, and in a season where he was supposed to be "eased" back into playing time coming off a major injury, he wins the MVP, and then another WS title. Still just 25. 2 full Major League seasons, 2 rings, an MVP, a Hank Aaron award, a Rookie of the Year, a Silver Slugger, a Comeback POY, started the All-Star game, etc.

He was thrust into a role at 23 where he was leaned on to not only hit cleanup for a mediocre offense, but command one of the best pitching staff's in baseball, and he didnt even have trouble adjusting. He looked like an old vet from day 1.

It took Yadier 9 years to put up an offensive season that even resembled Buster Posey's rookie season at the plate. Posey might never be the defensive whiz that Molina is, or gun down runners as well as Molina does, but hes still a top tier defensive catcher and an above average throwing arm, on top of being every bit as good at handling a Major League staff. When you combine that with Posey being the superior offensive player, and the mastery hes shown of the game of baseball at such a young age already, its not as close as Cards fans like to think it is.

I saw a graphic today that said since the beginning of 2012, only 1 NL player has more RBI's than Buster Posey.

Molina's career OPS+ is 97

Posey's is 149.

Buster Posey's (rookie) 4 month 2010 season: 406 AB's, 58 R, 124 H, 23 2B, 18 HR, 67 RBI's, .305 AVG, .357 OB%, .505 SLG

Yadier Molina's (career year) 2012 season: 505 AB's, 65 R, 159 H, 28 2B, 22 HR, 76 RBI's, .315 AVG, .373 OB%, .501 SLG,

Posey's 2010 season extrapolated to 100 more AB's to match Molina's 2012: 73 R, 155 H, 29 2B, 23 HR, 84 RBI's


Posey was just as good offensively as a rookie as Molina was in his career best offensive season as a 9 year veteran.

It would be one thing if Posey sucked at defense, but hes an above average defender with an above average arm as well.

No one is arguing that Molina is a better player than Posey. Posey is an elite hitter and above average catcher. Molina is an elite catcher and above average hitter. I guess it depends on preference. When LaRussa came in, his preference was a great defensive catcher who could command a pitching staff and if they could hit, that was an added bonus. Matheny was that catcher and Molina learned from him. Molina has gone from being a mediocre hitter to an above average hitter out of pure hard work and not out of fear of being cut because of it. Matheny has to be proud of how far Yadi has come because he had a huge role in molding him when he was still the starting catcher here.

Giants fans

I'm not about to have this Molina vs. Posey discussion again because we've done it 100 times. I never said a word about Posey. I just simply said before Molina is all said and done, I believe he deserves a MVP for the amount he brings to the table for the Cardinals.

Anyway...Royals again tonight...start of a 2 game home series now

Lance Lynn looking to go 8-1

He has arrived

Carpenter 2B
Beltran RF
Holliday LF
Craig 1B
Molina C
Freese 3B
Jay CF
Kozma SS
Lynn P

I really think Matheny is wasting Beltran in the 2 spot. I thnk Freese makes more sense because you still have some power and it adds the possibillity to put more runs up by moving Beltran to the clean up role and Craig at #5

Originally posted by LarryT1974:
I really think Matheny is wasting Beltran in the 2 spot. I thnk Freese makes more sense because you still have some power and it adds the possibillity to put more runs up by moving Beltran to the clean up role and Craig at #5

Both Beltran and Craig are putting up solid numbers though. I understand your reasoning though. Get Beltran and Craig both down in the heart of the lineup. I'd do this though..swap Craig/Beltran. Carpenter has one of the top OBP % in baseball (2nd in MLB if I remember correctly), Freese, Holliday, and Craig all ahead of Beltran

Carpenter 2B
Freese 3B
Holliday LF
Craig 1B
Beltran RF
Molina C
Jay CF
Kozma SS
P

Craig has 36 RBI (5th in NL)...so I'm comfortable leaving him where he is

Originally posted by jrg:
Great article on Matt Carpenter..The guy has now played 1B, 2B, 3B, RF this season

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/36405/matt-carpenter-cardinals-unsung-hero

41 runs scored (3rd place only to Votto and Cargo)
2nd in doubles
6th in walks
Top 5 in OBP

Plays 1B, 2B, 3B, RF, LF

No arguing that Carpenter has been a stud. Would love to have a more traditional leadoff guy with speed and ability to draw walks and have Carp bat #2, but he has been awesome this year

Originally posted by LarryT1974:
No arguing that Carpenter has been a stud. Would love to have a more traditional leadoff guy with speed and ability to draw walks and have Carp bat #2, but he has been awesome this year

Carpenter is about as traditional as it comes. Top 5 in OBP. Lot of walks. Gets on base. He can do a lot more, so it'd be nice to see him at 2...but nobody gets on base like he does. Jay is getting better.

Down 3-1 now