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2013 San Francisco Giants Thread

Originally posted by LaMichaelJeff:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by crzy:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by crzy:
Wow absolutely insane contract.

Billbird thinks its brilliant though. The funny thing is............. can you imagine how mad we would all be if the Giants gave up 35 million to a pitcher from another team with the stats he has put up?

It is Sabeans track record though. Overpay every single Giant who helped win a title.. Timmy, Pence, Huff, Scutaro, Affeldt, Pagan. Loyalty is a good thing but sometimes you just have to cut ties if the money is too much. When your minor league system is horrible though that is what happens. You overpay.

I just pray that Timmy is closer to the guy from 3-4 years ago and not from the last 2.


Ugh. At least it's only 2 years. It's impossible for Timmy to live up to this contract.

The most frustrating thing is how Sabean and the Giants always bid against themselves instead of allowing the market to dictate how much LIncecum is worth. It's stupid.

I understand that the Giants had holes in their rotation, but they still should have let Lincecum hit free agency.

Its obviously way too much money. As people have said, thankfully its just for 2 years.

fact is, money for starting pitchers are going to go way up again. i can see Bronson Arroyo making way more than this.

Well Arrroyo has certainly been better than Timmy over the past 2 years and has pitched in probably the toughest park for a pitcher in the league. However, I doubt at age 37 he will be getting more than this deal No team is going to give him 3 years.
[ Edited by Ninerjohn on Oct 23, 2013 at 9:57 AM ]
That was too much money for Timmy. No way can I defend that contract.

The offseason hasn't even begun yet and this shaping up to be another slow winter. Where we basically stand pat and hope for internal improvements.
Originally posted by Hopper:
Originally posted by solidg2000:
Giants are paying pence and Timmy like top 25 players...
They're both far from it
Pence padded his stats when games didn't count
And Timmy has sucked the last two years

Giants fans love bringing up the dodgers payroll
But at least the dodgers are paying great players
Giants are paying big bucks for mediocre/average players
Pence > Ethier or Crawford

I'm fine with the pence deal.

Haha no way
Both Crawford and Ethier have a better average and are gold glove winners
Pences 27 hrs this year where his most and how many of those where on garbage time
Ethiers hr high is 31
A healthy Ethier and Crawford >>> Pence
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by billbird2111:
Originally posted by OregonDuckNiner:
Originally posted by billbird2111:
Compared to what the Dodgers are about to overpay for Kershaw? This is chump change.

Plus -- it's only two years. If Timmay flames out -- at least he won't be hanging around for seven years like Zito.

I'd say this was a rather brilliant move. It keeps the pressure on Tim to produce. He can't get all fat n' happy with a long-term deal.

What are you guys complaining about?

Well... Kershaw is the best SP in the majors and is in the very beginning of his prime, and Lincecum has left his prime and has had an ERA well over 4 for the past two seasons. Bad comparison.

Not really. To say that Lincecum has left his prime is a reach. Kid isn't even 30 yet. He's had two sub-par seasons. He hasn't been Timmy like.

Kershaw is two to three years behind Timmy. Who is to say he isn't going to fall off the milk truck as well? You can't predict health. Who is to say he doesn't have the same problems as Timmy is having two years down the road?

Thing is -- the Dodgers are going to throw a boatload of money at Kershaw. I mean a BOATLOAD. It will make the Timmy deal look like peanuts.

I think it's a pretty fair comparison. You are summarily dismissed.

I agree with Oregon. Horrible comparison.

You are summarily dismissed.
Originally posted by solidg2000:
Haha no way
Both Crawford and Ethier have a better average and are gold glove winners
Pences 27 hrs this year where his most and how many of those where on garbage time
Ethiers hr high is 31
A healthy Ethier and Crawford >>> Pence
Do you really need me to mention Ethier and Crawford don't hit lefties? Pence does. Or that Pence this year joined the 20/20 club. Something Crawford and Ethier have never done. Or that Pence has gone six consecutive years since his rookie season hitting 20 HR's or more. Once again something Crawford and Ethier haven't done.
Clearly it's too soon to definitively say whether Timmy was overpaid or not. Risky? Absolutely, in that he hasn't performed at the level he's being paid (or even close) for the last few years. However, if Lincecum can make the transition that many throwers have made over the years (into an actual pitcher), he could at least play up to/around the level/value of his contract. He started showing signs of making that transition this past year, though it was shaky. Clearly the Giants are betting he can do it...and of course the risk is mitigated by the short-term nature of the deal.

Obviously, the only way this doesn't work is if he pitches horribly, which IMO isn't nearly as likely as him just pitching ok. In the event of the latter, he's at worst a tradable asset and that alone has value (how much is TBD).
[ Edited by GhostofFredDean74 on Oct 23, 2013 at 11:29 AM ]
Originally posted by Hopper:
Originally posted by solidg2000:
Haha no way
Both Crawford and Ethier have a better average and are gold glove winners
Pences 27 hrs this year where his most and how many of those where on garbage time
Ethiers hr high is 31
A healthy Ethier and Crawford >>> Pence
Do you really need me to mention Ethier and Crawford don't hit lefties? Pence does. Or that Pence this year joined the 20/20 club. Something Crawford and Ethier have never done. Or that Pence has gone six consecutive years since his rookie season hitting 20 HR's or more. Once again something Crawford and Ethier haven't done.

If you're implying that two players are better/more valuable than one, then that statement is absurd. But I do agree that Pence is better than BOTH Crawford OR Ethier, but not both of them combined.
Originally posted by pdizo916:
If you're implying that two players are better/more valuable than one, then that statement is absurd. But I do agree that Pence is better than BOTH Crawford OR Ethier, but not both of them combined.

of course not lol
Originally posted by Hopper:
Originally posted by pdizo916:
If you're implying that two players are better/more valuable than one, then that statement is absurd. But I do agree that Pence is better than BOTH Crawford OR Ethier, but not both of them combined.

of course not lol

Though quantitatively speaking, the combined WAR of Crawford (2.9) and Ethier (2.9) isn't THAT far off of Pence's individual WAR of 5.4. So even though you are right in that Crawford and Ethier combined are essentially more valuable than Pence alone, it's not by much.
[ Edited by GhostofFredDean74 on Oct 23, 2013 at 11:36 AM ]
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Clearly it's too soon to definitively say whether Timmy was overpaid or not. Risky? Absolutely, in that he hasn't performed at the level he's being paid (or even close) for the last few years. However, if Lincecum can make the transition that many throwers have made over the years (into an actual pitcher), he could at least play up to/around the level/value of his contract. He started showing signs of making that transition this past year, though it was shaky. Clearly the Giants are betting he can do it...and of course the risk is mitigated by the short-term nature of the deal.

Obviously, the only way this doesn't work is if he pitches horribly, which IMO isn't nearly as likely as him just pitching ok. In the event of the latter, he's at worst a tradable asset and that alone has value (how much is TBD).

He is overpaid based on his recent track record. Of course no one can predict the future but there is no doubt that he got more money than he should have. As for the trade chip, the Giants also gave him a no trade clause.
[ Edited by Ninerjohn on Oct 23, 2013 at 11:40 AM ]
So does this mean they're done spending the big dollars, or does it signal a willingness to crack open the bank vault a little and spend on a quality left-fielder?
Right now we stand at around 108 mil in committed salaries for 2014.

Payroll was 136 mil this past season.
Originally posted by DelCed2486:
So does this mean they're done spending the big dollars, or does it signal a willingness to crack open the bank vault a little and spend on a quality left-fielder?

If the signing of Pence and Timmy is all they do and they dont go after a bat for LF then I think it would be a huge failure. I think they do have the money though and will pursue a power bat either vis free agency or trade. The Dodgers spending has certainly changed things and they have to increase the payroll some to really be competitive.

I doubt you will see any huge splash such as going for Choo but instead might see a 1 year or 2 year deal for someone like Morse. Or, as Ghost has mentioned perhaps a trade for Josh Willingham. Not awesome but better than what we have now in left.
Arbitration eligible are Belt, Mijares, Blanco, Arias and Petit. So I guess add another 8 mil to sign them.
Originally posted by SFrush:
Right now we stand at around 108 mil in committed salaries for 2014.

Payroll was 136 mil this past season.

I put it at 112 million if they exercise the option on Vogelsong. That doesnt count Belt or Crawford who will get nice bumps and could be locked up on long term deals. The Giants will still need to add a LF, a SP, and at least 3 arms in the pen as well.

This is a pretty good breakdown............
https://www.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/nl-west/san-francisco-giants/
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