2013 San Francisco Giants Thread

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Clearly it's too soon to definitively say whether Timmy was overpaid or not. Risky? Absolutely, in that he hasn't performed at the level he's being paid (or even close) for the last few years. However, if Lincecum can make the transition that many throwers have made over the years (into an actual pitcher), he could at least play up to/around the level/value of his contract. He started showing signs of making that transition this past year, though it was shaky. Clearly the Giants are betting he can do it...and of course the risk is mitigated by the short-term nature of the deal.

Obviously, the only way this doesn't work is if he pitches horribly, which IMO isn't nearly as likely as him just pitching ok. In the event of the latter, he's at worst a tradable asset and that alone has value (how much is TBD).

He is overpaid based on his recent track record. Of course no one can predict the future but there is no doubt that he got more money than he should have. As for the trade chip, the Giants also gave him a no trade clause.

I mean, as of today, he's overpaid. But that's not a static thing nor is the final chapter of that story written. My bad about the no-trade clause....should've read the details.

Originally posted by boast:
KNBR had a discussion on Timmy's contract. the main points were durability (his 200 innings a year) and the marketing value the Giants get from trotting out a two-time Cy Young award winner.

oh and that he's a Padre killer

I think the marketing aspect was huge. Giants fans love Timmy and I'm sure he is 2nd to Buster in popularity.

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by boast:
KNBR had a discussion on Timmy's contract. the main points were durability (his 200 innings a year) and the marketing value the Giants get from trotting out a two-time Cy Young award winner.

oh and that he's a Padre killer

I think the marketing aspect was huge. Giants fans love Timmy and I'm sure he is 2nd to Buster in popularity.

Absolutely. An extra $5-7M per AAV for Lincecum pays back handsomely to the Giants in terms of bottom-line profitability.

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by boast:

KNBR had a discussion on Timmy's contract. the main points were durability (his 200 innings a year) and the marketing value the Giants get from trotting out a two-time Cy Young award winner.

oh and that he's a Padre killer

I think the marketing aspect was huge. Giants fans love Timmy and I'm sure he is 2nd to Buster in popularity.

Id guess Sandoval is 2nd with Lincecum a close 3rd. But yeah, the Giants very much understand how valuable fan favorites are, and how to market them.

I'll like this Lincecum deal even more if he's our No. 4 starter. We gotta find a legit No. 3.

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by boast:
KNBR had a discussion on Timmy's contract. the main points were durability (his 200 innings a year) and the marketing value the Giants get from trotting out a two-time Cy Young award winner.

oh and that he's a Padre killer

I think the marketing aspect was huge. Giants fans love Timmy and I'm sure he is 2nd to Buster in popularity.

Id guess Sandoval is 2nd with Lincecum a close 3rd. But yeah, the Giants very much understand how valuable fan favorites are, and how to market them.

I think there would be more people mad if Timmy left than Panda. Panda had the stupid hats going but I think Timmy is truly loved. Just my opinion anyway

Originally posted by OregonDuckNiner:
I'll like this Lincecum deal even more if he's our No. 4 starter. We gotta find a legit No. 3.

I dont see that happening Oregon. I think the Giants will spend money on a LF, 3 guys in pen, and maybe a back of the rotation starter. Who do you think is a legit #3 that they should go after? Maybe Arroyo for 2 years but I'm not sure he isnt a 4 or 5 anyway at this point.

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by OregonDuckNiner:
I'll like this Lincecum deal even more if he's our No. 4 starter. We gotta find a legit No. 3.

I dont see that happening Oregon. I think the Giants will spend money on a LF, 3 guys in pen, and maybe a back of the rotation starter. Who do you think is a legit #3 that they should go after? Maybe Arroyo for 2 years but I'm not sure he isnt a 4 or 5 anyway at this point.

Going to be the same as last year with Timmy at 3, Vogey probably at 4 and Gaudin fighting it out with Petit.

Originally posted by itlynstalyn:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by OregonDuckNiner:
I'll like this Lincecum deal even more if he's our No. 4 starter. We gotta find a legit No. 3.

I dont see that happening Oregon. I think the Giants will spend money on a LF, 3 guys in pen, and maybe a back of the rotation starter. Who do you think is a legit #3 that they should go after? Maybe Arroyo for 2 years but I'm not sure he isnt a 4 or 5 anyway at this point.

Going to be the same as last year with Timmy at 3, Vogey probably at 4 and Gaudin fighting it out with Petit.

I agree. Giants will probably bring Lopez back and have pretty much the same exact team... with hopefully the exception of power bat in LF.

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

I agree. Giants will probably bring Lopez back and have pretty much the same exact team... with hopefully the exception of power bat in LF.

That's all I want for Christmas

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by OregonDuckNiner:
I'll like this Lincecum deal even more if he's our No. 4 starter. We gotta find a legit No. 3.

I dont see that happening Oregon. I think the Giants will spend money on a LF, 3 guys in pen, and maybe a back of the rotation starter. Who do you think is a legit #3 that they should go after? Maybe Arroyo for 2 years but I'm not sure he isnt a 4 or 5 anyway at this point.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that I believe solidifying our rotation is FAR more important than finding a LF. Take a look at the teams who made the postseason this year and their rotation's ERAs:

1. Dodgers
2. Cardinals
3. Reds
4. Tigers
5. Pirates
6. Braves
9. A's
10. Rays
11. Red Sox

Guess what the Giants' rotation ERA was? 24. Only 2 slots above the freakin' Colorado Rockies. Yes, I know that Cain's down year altered the numbers a little bit, but I doubt that we would've cracked the top-20 with a typical Cain year last year. Our rotation was simply not good, and there are too many ? if the 3-4-5 is going to be some combination of Timmy, Vogelsong, Petit or Gaudin.

If signing a legit No. 3 means not enough money for a LF, I am for that 10/10. I feel like the lineup has a lot more potential than the rotation does, because Belt, Pablo and Crawford are poised for big years. Couple that with a healthy Pagan, Scutaro, Posey and Pence, and I think that's a pretty solid lineup, and would be more than good enough to win with a solid rotation.

Pitching wins championships IMO, and we'd struggle to stay in the race next year if we roll into the season with the rotation that itlynstalyn mentioned.

Just my two cents, but I believe that wholeheartedly. As for who, I think the Giants should do all they can to outbid for Tanaka. I think he's the real deal and would look VERY nice behind Cain and Bum in the rotation. IF we want to compete with the Dodgers' $300 million payroll, we gotta do something. I'd hate to see us stay put while the Dodgers continue to buy the NL West year after year. We're the sixth biggest media market in the country for christ's sake.

Originally posted by OregonDuckNiner:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by OregonDuckNiner:
I'll like this Lincecum deal even more if he's our No. 4 starter. We gotta find a legit No. 3.

I dont see that happening Oregon. I think the Giants will spend money on a LF, 3 guys in pen, and maybe a back of the rotation starter. Who do you think is a legit #3 that they should go after? Maybe Arroyo for 2 years but I'm not sure he isnt a 4 or 5 anyway at this point.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that I believe solidifying our rotation is FAR more important than finding a LF. Take a look at the teams who made the postseason this year and their rotation's ERAs:

1. Dodgers
2. Cardinals
3. Reds
4. Tigers
5. Pirates
6. Braves
9. A's
10. Rays
11. Red Sox

Guess what the Giants' rotation ERA was? 24. Only 2 slots above the freakin' Colorado Rockies. Yes, I know that Cain's down year altered the numbers a little bit, but I doubt that we would've cracked the top-20 with a typical Cain year last year. Our rotation was simply not good, and there are too many ? if the 3-4-5 is going to be some combination of Timmy, Vogelsong, Petit or Gaudin.

If signing a legit No. 3 means not enough money for a LF, I am for that 10/10. I feel like the lineup has a lot more potential than the rotation does, because Belt, Pablo and Crawford are poised for big years. Couple that with a healthy Pagan, Scutaro, Posey and Pence, and I think that's a pretty solid lineup, and would be more than good enough to win with a solid rotation.

Pitching wins championships IMO, and we'd struggle to stay in the race next year if we roll into the season with the rotation that itlynstalyn mentioned.

Just my two cents, but I believe that wholeheartedly. As for who, I think the Giants should do all they can to outbid for Tanaka. I think he's the real deal and would look VERY nice behind Cain and Bum in the rotation. IF we want to compete with the Dodgers' $300 million payroll, we gotta do something. I'd hate to see us stay put while the Dodgers continue to buy the NL West year after year. We're the sixth biggest media market in the country for christ's sake.

Oregon, the Giants are simply not going to be in a position to outbid other teams for Tanaka. The money for him is going to be stupid when you consider the contract and the posting fee. The BIG money teams that need pitching are going to be all over the guy. That includes the Yankees and Angels. With the money given to Pence and Timmy it just isnt going to happen. Not a chance.

The Giants had the 6th highest payroll in baseball last year and will probably be right in that range without paying a ransom for Tanaka. Would he be great to have? Sure but I know its impossible now.

I could see a 2 yr deal for Arroyo because he wants to come to SF. It all would depend on his asking price because I seriously doubt they would give him more than they gave Timmy. Reality is the Giants 4 and 5 will very likely be Vogey at a reduced price ( maybe 4M) and Gaudin.

Finally, do you REALLY want to see Blanco as our starting leftfielder? I know I dont. They need another bat in this lineup and not a corner outfielder who hits 3 homers.

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Oregon, the Giants are simply not going to be in a position to outbid other teams for Tanaka. The money for him is going to be stupid when you consider the contract and the posting fee. The BIG money teams that need pitching are going to be all over the guy. That includes the Yankees and Angels. With the money given to Pence and Timmy it just isnt going to happen. Not a chance.

The Giants had the 6th highest payroll in baseball last year and will probably be right in that range without paying a ransom for Tanaka. Would he be great to have? Sure but I know its impossible now.

I could see a 2 yr deal for Arroyo because he wants to come to SF. It all would depend on his asking price because I seriously doubt they would give him more than they gave Timmy. Reality is the Giants 4 and 5 will very likely be Vogey at a reduced price ( maybe 4M) and Gaudin.

Finally, do you REALLY want to see Blanco as our starting leftfielder? I know I dont. They need another bat in this lineup and not a corner outfielder who hits 3 homers.

Well I guess part of the problem then is paying a pitcher 17 mil a year who has had an ERA of 4.77 over the past 2 years. I've loved Timmy ever since I saw him pitch his first game against the Phillies, but if paying him that much money prevents us from going out and addressing the rotation, then I do not like the move. I wanted him back, but not for practically the same amount he was making last season.

I mean I hope I'm wrong, but I would not have have high expectations going into next year with a 3-4-5 of Timmy, Gaudin and Vogelsong. Arroyo would be nice, but we'd need another magical season to contend with the Dodgers.

And of course I don't want Blanco out there again, but if I had to decide between spending on another quality SP vs. a LF, I'd go with the SP. I'm sure I'm in the minority, but I stated my case in my last post.

Bronson Arroyo could be a target.

Originally posted by Garcia:
Bronson Arroyo could be a target.

Seriously? Wow.