There are 108 users in the forums

Remember
Not a member? Register Now!

2013 San Francisco Giants Thread

2 hits today from my boy Perez...glad to see him get off the schneide!
Some dude is trying to get an early extension.
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
2 hits today from my boy Perez...glad to see him get off the schneide!

I like that dude a lot too. Would like to see him as our 4th outfielder next year.
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by pdizo916:
Originally posted by LaMichaelJeff:
Bring in Tanaka and Abreu.

Resign Pence.

WS bound, son.

Where would we play Abreu? I think he's a 1B

Resign pence and Gaudin, and with the addition of Tanaka, this team could be in the chase for a WC.


I would want Ellsburry too but we WISELY spent that money on Pagan.

lol Ellsbury is going to cost 3 times as much as Pagan did. Its not like we picked one over the other.

I think Choo would be a much better signing to leadoff. Elite OB% for a fraction of Ellsbury's price.

That would be $30M per year, which would make Ellsbury the highest paid player in the game, and of course nobody is going to do that. He's $9M right now and someone might offer $16M per for 5 years ($80M), but I can't see any more than that for JE. I like Choo, but he really is useless against LHP and his defense is questionable...but if the deal was reasonable in length, it would be a great investment. Just not sure we can pay big dollars/long-term money to both corner OFers and still put together a great starting pitching staff (which is what this team is built on).

Pagan got 4/40. Ellsbury is said to be targeting around 120 mil. That would be 3 times the 40 mil Pagan got. I doubt he gets that much, but you never know with some of the big spenders in the game, and all Ellsbury's east coast exposure. If he stays healthy and productive through the end of the year, I think he gets 100 mil.

Either way the Giants signing Pagan didnt change whether or not they were going after Ellsbury.

Choo would be perfectly fine in LF. His D isnt great, but he wont have to play CF or RF. The importance of OB% is the key. The Giants have proven time and time again over the years that when they have a productive leadoff hitter, they become a title contender. They always post those team splits that show how dramatically better they are when Pagan is playing well. Same with Torres in 2010.

Choo's OB%

2008- .397

2009- .394

2010- .401

2011- .344

2012- .373

2013- .417

Imagine the boost in offensive production with a guy consistently getting on base at a .400 clip. We could dramatically improve the offense with just one reasonably priced signing. He's good for 20 steals, 15 HR, and a .290 avg. on top of it.

The formula to winning baseball for the Giants is setting the table, getting an early lead, and giving the pitching confidence to hold that lead until the end. We won 2 championships on this kind of roll.
[ Edited by Niners99 on Sep 5, 2013 at 3:52 AM ]
i still enjoy listening to the game on the radio


i just can't NOT watch my giants....last place or not.
Originally posted by LaMichaelJeff:
i still enjoy listening to the game on the radio


i just can't NOT watch my giants....last place or not.

You know you want to. Especially when Zito is on the mound.
Originally posted by itlynstalyn:
Some dude is trying to get an early extension.

Panda went HAM last night
Originally posted by VaBeachNiner:
Originally posted by LaMichaelJeff:
i still enjoy listening to the game on the radio


i just can't NOT watch my giants....last place or not.

You know you want to. Especially when Zito is on the mound.

  • boast
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 70,371
Originally posted by LaMichaelJeff:
i still enjoy listening to the game on the radio


i just can't NOT watch my giants....last place or not.

yeah, i haven't watched a game in about 3 weeks now. just can't do it. it hurts too much. hold me.
Originally posted by boast:
Originally posted by LaMichaelJeff:
i still enjoy listening to the game on the radio


i just can't NOT watch my giants....last place or not.

yeah, i haven't watched a game in about 3 weeks now. just can't do it. it hurts too much. hold me.

I thought Jeff just said he cant miss a game, not he cant watch them?
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by pdizo916:
Originally posted by LaMichaelJeff:
Bring in Tanaka and Abreu.

Resign Pence.

WS bound, son.

Where would we play Abreu? I think he's a 1B

Resign pence and Gaudin, and with the addition of Tanaka, this team could be in the chase for a WC.


I would want Ellsburry too but we WISELY spent that money on Pagan.

lol Ellsbury is going to cost 3 times as much as Pagan did. Its not like we picked one over the other.

I think Choo would be a much better signing to leadoff. Elite OB% for a fraction of Ellsbury's price.

That would be $30M per year, which would make Ellsbury the highest paid player in the game, and of course nobody is going to do that. He's $9M right now and someone might offer $16M per for 5 years ($80M), but I can't see any more than that for JE. I like Choo, but he really is useless against LHP and his defense is questionable...but if the deal was reasonable in length, it would be a great investment. Just not sure we can pay big dollars/long-term money to both corner OFers and still put together a great starting pitching staff (which is what this team is built on).

Pagan got 4/40. Ellsbury is said to be targeting around 120 mil. That would be 3 times the 40 mil Pagan got. I doubt he gets that much, but you never know with some of the big spenders in the game, and all Ellsbury's east coast exposure. If he stays healthy and productive through the end of the year, I think he gets 100 mil.

Either way the Giants signing Pagan didnt change whether or not they were going after Ellsbury.

Choo would be perfectly fine in LF. His D isnt great, but he wont have to play CF or RF. The importance of OB% is the key. The Giants have proven time and time again over the years that when they have a productive leadoff hitter, they become a title contender. They always post those team splits that show how dramatically better they are when Pagan is playing well. Same with Torres in 2010.

Teams are starting to see how badly you can get burned by signing long-term free agent deals (Crawford, Gonzo, Werth, Hamilton, Pujols, etc.), so I don't see that happening too much anymore. Maybe 4-5 year deals max...and if that's the case, the most (IMO) you'll see Ellsbury/Choo get is around $18M AAV (5/18M=90M) and even that's high for guys at 30/32 years of age when next season starts, and who have already peaked. Some teams might be willing to pay more per year, but not go longer than 3-4 years but even then, I think they both come in well short of a $100M deal.

At the end of the day, I think Ellsbury gets ~5/$90M.

All that said, I'd be fine with Choo for all the reasons you stated, but he would have to be platooned:

RHP - 347 ABs, .329 AVG, .458 OBP, .382 BABIP, 19 HRs, 40 RBI, 186 wRC+
LHP - 158 ABs, .190 AVG, .325 OBP, .256 BABIP, 0 HRs, 7 RBI, 63 wRC+

So the question is, what do you pay a 32 year-old below-average-fielding OF who is only effective against RHP? Also knowing you need to lockup your RF and at the very least 1 high-end starting pitcher?
[ Edited by GhostofFredDean74 on Sep 5, 2013 at 10:04 AM ]
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by Frisco69ers:
maybe Kickham's value for us in the future could be a long reliever

The Giants have several pitchers in their organization that have much bigger upsides. I think Kickham will be lucky to have much value in any capacity. Crick, Stratton, Blackburn, Agosta, Surkamp , Heston.... to name a few with more promise.

I just wish the Giants had ONE stud hitter in their system. Just ONE. Instead they have guys like Gary Brown and Joe Panik. Guys who will never be great hitters in the majors.

I would throw Edwin Escobar, Adalberto Mejia and Ty Blach (who's having a great year for the SJG) in there as well. In fact, I think Blach might be a better version of Surkamp.

In terms of hitters, I think Mac Williamson will eventually be that guy.

Regarding Kickham, I agree with Frisco that the bullpen might be where he eventually adds some value.

Kind of sad though to think that the Giants best hitting prospect could be a 22 year old in A ball hitting .260 and striking out about every 4 times up. I hope he does develop because it looks like Williamson and Villalona are the only 2 in the system with big time power potential.

Context is important. He started off red-hot in the Cal League, got hurt and struggled to regain his form. But in June, he started to get hot and his numbers across the board are up and his K's are down as well. By season's end (which would be his first full-season in professional baseball), he'll probably end up hitting around .290, with 20+ HRs, 80+ RBIs and possibly even 10+ steals.

If he does that, those numbers would be comparable to/better than Matt Holliday's minor league numbers at the same age (who didn't make the bigs until he was 24 and also had similar strikeout numbers). Strictly conjecture on my part, but Holliday is the major league I see the most similarity with in terms of size/tools/abilities.

Posted this about Mac Williamson on July 2nd and turns out it was fairly close. Mac's final numbers:

.292, 25 HRs, 89 RBI and 10 steals (only 1 CS).
Originally posted by Frisco69ers:
Originally posted by itlynstalyn:
Some dude is trying to get an early extension.

Panda went HAM last night

I WONDER why Pablo decided to get his head out of his ass....
Originally posted by Rubberneck36:
Originally posted by boast:
Originally posted by LaMichaelJeff:
i still enjoy listening to the game on the radio


i just can't NOT watch my giants....last place or not.

yeah, i haven't watched a game in about 3 weeks now. just can't do it. it hurts too much. hold me.

I thought Jeff just said he cant miss a game, not he cant watch them?

yea, even though we're terrible, i see them on my guide on TV and i have to watch. or i'll be stuck in traffic, but i'll turn the radio on to listen to the game. i'm still so invested in this team despite being so absolutely HORRID. yesterday's game was entertaining though.
I'd rather us bring back Beltran on a two year deal and re-sign Pence than overpay Choo or Ellsbury.
[ Edited by SFrush on Sep 5, 2013 at 11:28 AM ]
Search Podcast Draft Forum Commentary News Shop Home
Get the Latest News at Giants365.com