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2013 San Francisco Giants Thread

Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by Rubberneck36:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Christian Arroyo wins AZL MVP.

Wow

He was the best performer on the league's best team. It's also interesting that all 5 of the low-level teams made the playoffs and 4 of these teams (San Jose, Augusta, Salem-Keizer and the AZL) have/had the best overall records in their respective leagues. The other lower-level team, the DSL Giants, won their division but finished with the 4th best record in a 35-team league. Says a lot about some of the talent coming up from the lower minors.

I wonder if it has to do with the Giants organizational philosophy of hitting and prioritization of pitching? Our lower minor league teams always do very well, but Fresno always seems to be mediocre. Since the Giants preach aggressive, early count contact swinging, the opposing lower minors pitching must be more ceceptable without fully developed breaking pitches.

Just a theory.

Definite possibility. I tend to think it has more to do with the organizational emphasis on drafting/developing pitchers. Not sure of the exact numbers, but we tend to select pitchers early and often in the draft (including a ton of college arms), especially recently. So it could be just the old adage of good pitching beats good hitting (especially in the low minors) and we stack the odds in our favor by drafting tons of pitchers compared to positional players.

That philosophy needs to change some now that the Giants have so many promising young arms in the organization. I am NOT saying they should ignore pitching obviously but they need to put a premium on power bats especially in the OF.

Part of the problem is the Giants have been so bad at drafting good hitters, that I dont trust them to make more early round hitter selections. Theyd probably be better off waiting for some development and then trading their minor league pitching depth for good young hitting prospects.

That may have started to change in 2008. They got Buster Posey and Brandon Crawford in that draft and Brandon Belt the next year ('09). Throw in the homegrown Sandoval and that's 4/5 of your infield that was developed through the system and has already won a championship together while all in their mid-20's. Not sure how many teams can make that claim.

And even though Gary Brown has faded, Jarrett Parker set a HR record in Richmond (tough place to hit), Adam Duvall did the same last year in San Jose and Chuckie Jones is a 6'3", 230 pound 21 year-old toolsy OF who could break through next year...so the story of the 2010 draft isn't entirely over yet. Susac (2011 draft) was putting up really good power numbers in Richmond before the injury, is now healthy and scheduled to play in the AFL. I think Susac will develop into a 20 HR/75 RBI guy over time if he can stay healthy. And of course his development will allow the team to move Posey from behind the plate which will only strengthen the lineup.

Of course the top overall hitting prospect IMO in their system (Williamson) was selected last year and Christian Arroyo picked a few months ago had a breakout season in the AZL. Even Ryder Jones put up good numbers in Arizona, though not quite at the level of Arroyo.

Overall the history isn't good, but it's not as bad as perceived and it looks to be getting better.
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by Rubberneck36:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Christian Arroyo wins AZL MVP.

Wow

He was the best performer on the league's best team. It's also interesting that all 5 of the low-level teams made the playoffs and 4 of these teams (San Jose, Augusta, Salem-Keizer and the AZL) have/had the best overall records in their respective leagues. The other lower-level team, the DSL Giants, won their division but finished with the 4th best record in a 35-team league. Says a lot about some of the talent coming up from the lower minors.

I wonder if it has to do with the Giants organizational philosophy of hitting and prioritization of pitching? Our lower minor league teams always do very well, but Fresno always seems to be mediocre. Since the Giants preach aggressive, early count contact swinging, the opposing lower minors pitching must be more ceceptable without fully developed breaking pitches.

Just a theory.

Definite possibility. I tend to think it has more to do with the organizational emphasis on drafting/developing pitchers. Not sure of the exact numbers, but we tend to select pitchers early and often in the draft (including a ton of college arms), especially recently. So it could be just the old adage of good pitching beats good hitting (especially in the low minors) and we stack the odds in our favor by drafting tons of pitchers compared to positional players.

That philosophy needs to change some now that the Giants have so many promising young arms in the organization. I am NOT saying they should ignore pitching obviously but they need to put a premium on power bats especially in the OF.

Part of the problem is the Giants have been so bad at drafting good hitters, that I dont trust them to make more early round hitter selections. Theyd probably be better off waiting for some development and then trading their minor league pitching depth for good young hitting prospects.

That may have started to change in 2008. They got Buster Posey and Brandon Crawford in that draft and Brandon Belt the next year ('09). Throw in the homegrown Sandoval and that's 4/5 of your infield that was developed through the system and has already won a championship together while all in their mid-20's. Not sure how many teams can make that claim.

And even though Gary Brown has faded, Jarrett Parker set a HR record in Richmond (tough place to hit), Adam Duvall did the same last year in San Jose and Chuckie Jones is a 6'3", 230 pound 21 year-old toolsy OF who could break through next year...so the story of the 2010 draft isn't entirely over yet. Susac (2011 draft) was putting up really good power numbers in Richmond before the injury, is now healthy and scheduled to play in the AFL. I think Susac will develop into a 20 HR/75 RBI guy over time if he can stay healthy. And of course his development will allow the team to move Posey from behind the plate which will only strengthen the lineup.

Of course the top overall hitting prospect IMO in their system (Williamson) was selected last year and Christian Arroyo picked a few months ago had a breakout season in the AZL. Even Ryder Jones put up good numbers in Arizona, though not quite at the level of Arroyo.

Overall the history isn't good, but it's not as bad as perceived and it looks to be getting better.

I give them credit for Belt, because they found him outside the first 2 rounds. But Posey shouldve been drafted 1st overall that year. Falling to us at 5 was a no brainer. Didnt take any scouting to realize that was the pick to make.

I like Crawford's potential to be a slightly above average hitting SS, but I wouldnt group him in with Posey and Belt as having legit hitting potential.

Overall I think the Giants main problem has been developing hitters that actually come up and produce in the big leagues. Williamson, Duvall, Parker, etc have all been looking good, but until they produce in the majors im not going to think were turning things around in that area.

The Giants have developed a track record that saw almost zero great hitters drafted between Matt Williams and Buster Posey. Thankfully were just as good at drafting pitching talent as we are bad at drafting hitting talent.
D
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
That may have started to change in 2008. They got Buster Posey and Brandon Crawford in that draft and Brandon Belt the next year ('09). Throw in the homegrown Sandoval and that's 4/5 of your infield that was developed through the system and has already won a championship together while all in their mid-20's. Not sure how many teams can make that claim.

And even though Gary Brown has faded, Jarrett Parker set a HR record in Richmond (tough place to hit), Adam Duvall did the same last year in San Jose and Chuckie Jones is a 6'3", 230 pound 21 year-old toolsy OF who could break through next year...so the story of the 2010 draft isn't entirely over yet. Susac (2011 draft) was putting up really good power numbers in Richmond before the injury, is now healthy and scheduled to play in the AFL. I think Susac will develop into a 20 HR/75 RBI guy over time if he can stay healthy. And of course his development will allow the team to move Posey from behind the plate which will only strengthen the lineup.

Of course the top overall hitting prospect IMO in their system (Williamson) was selected last year and Christian Arroyo picked a few months ago had a breakout season in the AZL. Even Ryder Jones put up good numbers in Arizona, though not quite at the level of Arroyo.

Overall the history isn't good, but it's not as bad as perceived and it looks to be getting better.

Duvall has put up some nice offensive numbers, but he also makes a lot of errors.
I wasn't necessarily trying to give anyone credit (since IMO that's irrelevant), nor was I saying Crawford was in the class of Posey or Belt for that matter, was just establishing the fact that they've developed hitting prospects over the last 5 years or so that are now producing in the majors.

Part of me thinks it has something to do with the parks we choose to affiliate with. San Jose, Augusta and Richmond particularly are notorious for being pitchers parks, and if a guy can get through that gauntlet, they have AT&T to look forward to. As a hitter, losing out on HRs in your home park that you KNOW you've squared up, year after year, that's got to mess with your head. Especially when you see other teams/affiliates essentially play in band boxes where they can put up video game numbers and that's the case from lower-to-upper minors all the way through to the major league park.

That's just my take though.

I do think we'll see 1 power hitter emerge from the Williamson/Duvall/Parker/Dominguez/Jones crowd and I really like Arroyo as an all-around hitter. But park factors are something to consider up and down our system.
Originally posted by SoCal9er:
D
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
That may have started to change in 2008. They got Buster Posey and Brandon Crawford in that draft and Brandon Belt the next year ('09). Throw in the homegrown Sandoval and that's 4/5 of your infield that was developed through the system and has already won a championship together while all in their mid-20's. Not sure how many teams can make that claim.

And even though Gary Brown has faded, Jarrett Parker set a HR record in Richmond (tough place to hit), Adam Duvall did the same last year in San Jose and Chuckie Jones is a 6'3", 230 pound 21 year-old toolsy OF who could break through next year...so the story of the 2010 draft isn't entirely over yet. Susac (2011 draft) was putting up really good power numbers in Richmond before the injury, is now healthy and scheduled to play in the AFL. I think Susac will develop into a 20 HR/75 RBI guy over time if he can stay healthy. And of course his development will allow the team to move Posey from behind the plate which will only strengthen the lineup.

Of course the top overall hitting prospect IMO in their system (Williamson) was selected last year and Christian Arroyo picked a few months ago had a breakout season in the AZL. Even Ryder Jones put up good numbers in Arizona, though not quite at the level of Arroyo.

Overall the history isn't good, but it's not as bad as perceived and it looks to be getting better.

Duvall has put up some nice offensive numbers, but he also makes a lot of errors.

He's gotten better, but yah he's definitely clanky at 3rd. I always thought they should try him in LF, sort of a RH version of Jason Kubel.
BTW, Nate Schierholtz is an example of a guy who we drafted/developed, put up pretty good numbers in the minors and played ok for us too when he was healthy, but has really flourished in the friendly confines of Wrigley Field. He's having an even better year than Pence with nearly 200 less ABs. Makes you wonder just how good Posey, Panda, Belt and even Crawford might do if they played somewhere else.
Game time ya bishes. I am not happy about our record, but I'm still watching everyday and faithful. Go G'S.
Blanco two hops his throw to the cutoff man so they score. Nice blanco, way to throw it in hard. Damn
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
BTW, Nate Schierholtz is an example of a guy who we drafted/developed, put up pretty good numbers in the minors and played ok for us too when he was healthy, but has really flourished in the friendly confines of Wrigley Field. He's having an even better year than Pence with nearly 200 less ABs. Makes you wonder just how good Posey, Panda, Belt and even Crawford might do if they played somewhere else.

If Posey played for the Brewers hed be hitting 35 HR a year. He's lost so many HR this year at AT&T. I can think of about 5 different times when he crushed a ball, and it died on the track.

Im not going to give the Giants hitters a ton of sympathy for AT&T though, because Pence and Sandoval went how long without a HR this year? It seems like both of them went almost 2 months without one, home or away. Posey hasnt even hit one in a month.

Part of the problem is playing half your games in a very pitcher friendly park, but another big part is not being in good counts. The Giants always get themselves into bad counts, and then have to try to stay alive. HR's come when youre ahead of the count and can sit on something. I wish they would add a couple more patient hitters into the lineup. We have too many free swingers.
Man on 2nd and 3rd with no outs, 3-0 count to Pablo and he swings. Fly out no runs, but never fear, Hector with the two out double. Ya, thats why he plays. A backup hitting catcher is important for us so we can afford to give Posey days off and let him play 1st.
Lol Arizona announcer just said, "the thing about the big Posey extension is what it will look like because he's really an average catcher at best." L wtf
Pence HR!
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Originally posted by Rubberneck36:
Lol Arizona announcer just said, "the thing about the big Posey extension is what it will look like because he's really an average catcher at best." L wtf

who said that
Originally posted by Garcia:
Originally posted by Rubberneck36:
Lol Arizona announcer just said, "the thing about the big Posey extension is what it will look like because he's really an average catcher at best." L wtf

who said that

There main announcer, not the color guy.
Originally posted by Rubberneck36:
Lol Arizona announcer just said, "the thing about the big Posey extension is what it will look like because he's really an average catcher at best." L wtf

whateves.....
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