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2013 San Francisco Giants Thread

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by Hopper:
Originally posted by Niners99:

Cain is headed to the DL. You want him to return to pitch meaningless innings in September?

There's really no point.

You want the last pitch he threw to be a comebacker that nailed him? He isnt going to want to sit on that all offseason. Let him rehab, come back this year, set an innings limit and dont make him go 7.5 months between regular season starts over a forearm bruise.

Not really a valid reason to let him pitch again. There's both the logistics of it and the reasoning behind it. Logistically, he won't be back until mid-September at the earliest (15 day DL and at least 2 rehab starts). He'd be building up his arm strength to pitch again only to shut it down a few weeks later in a year where we'll likely lose ~95 games.

I'm not seeing the logic.

Krukow even explained why its important that Cain comes back from this before the end of the year. Its a mental/confidence thing. He talked about the time when Trevor Hoffman hit Robby Thompson in the face with a 96 mph fastball, and he fought to rehab in time to get back in a game before the season ended. It was a big deal to him that he came back and finished the year out into a normal offseason.

Players dont want to end a season injured. Cain doesnt want to wait 7.5 months to pitch in a real game again. Hes a tough guy, dont worry about his arm. It might be just as bad to give him that much of an offseason. If we were in a race he wouldnt have gone on the DL. You skip a start and work the bruise out of your arm. Cain undoubtedly wants to pitch again this year, and he will.
  • Garcia
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 30,390
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by pdizo916:
Originally posted by SFrush:
Crick 84 K's in 61 innings.

39 walks, doe.


Jesus Christ.

Stop

you are serious?

Holy f**k.

Dudes how young?

You are so negative

81/61 K/inning ratio is amazing. lol
  • Garcia
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 30,390
I like Keishnick but what does this guy do really well?

He has little to no pop, at least thats what he has shown thus far.
Not sure what else we need to see. Would rather see Brett Pill, Juan Perez or Peguero get some more ABs
Originally posted by Garcia:
I like Keishnick but what does this guy do really well?

He has little to no pop, at least thats what he has shown thus far.
Not sure what else we need to see. Would rather see Brett Pill, Juan Perez or Peguero get some more ABs

What does any of them do well?

Pill is a waste of AB's imo. Hes almost 30 already, and will never be more than a utility player. Theres no use giving him AB's like hes a prospect. Hes pretty much is what he is.

Id much rather give Belt all the AB's at first the rest of the way, send Pill down, and then call up Gary Brown. I dont know why the Giants havent called him up yet. At some point we have to find out what he looks like in the Majors. If he sinks, so be it, but its overdue.
  • Garcia
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 30,390
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by Garcia:
I like Keishnick but what does this guy do really well?

He has little to no pop, at least thats what he has shown thus far.
Not sure what else we need to see. Would rather see Brett Pill, Juan Perez or Peguero get some more ABs

What does any of them do well?

Pill is a waste of AB's imo. Hes almost 30 already, and will never be more than a utility player. Theres no use giving him AB's like hes a prospect. Hes pretty much is what he is.

Id much rather give Belt all the AB's at first the rest of the way, send Pill down, and then call up Gary Brown. I dont know why the Giants havent called him up yet. At some point we have to find out what he looks like in the Majors. If he sinks, so be it, but its overdue.

I meant Pill in LF.... he has never had a chance to play consistently. But otherwise I agree with you.
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by Garcia:
I like Keishnick but what does this guy do really well?

He has little to no pop, at least thats what he has shown thus far.
Not sure what else we need to see. Would rather see Brett Pill, Juan Perez or Peguero get some more ABs

What does any of them do well?

Pill is a waste of AB's imo. Hes almost 30 already, and will never be more than a utility player. Theres no use giving him AB's like hes a prospect. Hes pretty much is what he is.

Id much rather give Belt all the AB's at first the rest of the way, send Pill down, and then call up Gary Brown. I dont know why the Giants havent called him up yet. At some point we have to find out what he looks like in the Majors. If he sinks, so be it, but its overdue.

Agreed. Give ABs to Belt, give him more to build on for next year. I do like Perez though. I think he has more potential than the others. I also agree on Brown. s**t or get off the pot. I am tired of reading about him all the time.
Originally posted by Garcia:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by Garcia:
I like Keishnick but what does this guy do really well?

He has little to no pop, at least thats what he has shown thus far.
Not sure what else we need to see. Would rather see Brett Pill, Juan Perez or Peguero get some more ABs

What does any of them do well?

Pill is a waste of AB's imo. Hes almost 30 already, and will never be more than a utility player. Theres no use giving him AB's like hes a prospect. Hes pretty much is what he is.

Id much rather give Belt all the AB's at first the rest of the way, send Pill down, and then call up Gary Brown. I dont know why the Giants havent called him up yet. At some point we have to find out what he looks like in the Majors. If he sinks, so be it, but its overdue.

I meant Pill in LF.... he has never had a chance to play consistently. But otherwise I agree with you.

LF is what I meant. Give Pill's OF AB's to Brown. Pill doesnt need to be up at all. Hes not a major league regular, and that wont change with more AB's.
  • Garcia
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 30,390
Originally posted by Niners99:
LF is what I meant. Give Pill's OF AB's to Brown. Pill doesnt need to be up at all. Hes not a major league regular, and that wont change with more AB's.

I'm all for that.

.235 13 HRs
Originally posted by Niners99:
Krukow even explained why its important that Cain comes back from this before the end of the year. Its a mental/confidence thing. He talked about the time when Trevor Hoffman hit Robby Thompson in the face with a 96 mph fastball, and he fought to rehab in time to get back in a game before the season ended. It was a big deal to him that he came back and finished the year out into a normal offseason.

Players dont want to end a season injured. Cain doesnt want to wait 7.5 months to pitch in a real game again. Hes a tough guy, dont worry about his arm. It might be just as bad to give him that much of an offseason. If we were in a race he wouldnt have gone on the DL. You skip a start and work the bruise out of your arm. Cain undoubtedly wants to pitch again this year, and he will.
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by Hopper:
Originally posted by Niners99:

Cain is headed to the DL. You want him to return to pitch meaningless innings in September?

There's really no point.

You want the last pitch he threw to be a comebacker that nailed him? He isnt going to want to sit on that all offseason. Let him rehab, come back this year, set an innings limit and dont make him go 7.5 months between regular season starts over a forearm bruise.

Not really a valid reason to let him pitch again. There's both the logistics of it and the reasoning behind it. Logistically, he won't be back until mid-September at the earliest (15 day DL and at least 2 rehab starts). He'd be building up his arm strength to pitch again only to shut it down a few weeks later in a year where we'll likely lose ~95 games.

I'm not seeing the logic.

Krukow even explained why its important that Cain comes back from this before the end of the year. Its a mental/confidence thing. He talked about the time when Trevor Hoffman hit Robby Thompson in the face with a 96 mph fastball, and he fought to rehab in time to get back in a game before the season ended. It was a big deal to him that he came back and finished the year out into a normal offseason.

Players dont want to end a season injured. Cain doesnt want to wait 7.5 months to pitch in a real game again. Hes a tough guy, dont worry about his arm. It might be just as bad to give him that much of an offseason. If we were in a race he wouldnt have gone on the DL. You skip a start and work the bruise out of your arm. Cain undoubtedly wants to pitch again this year, and he will.

Getting hit in the face/breaking your cheekbone in the heat of a pennant race, and getting hit in the arm/contusion on a last place team in late August are two VERY different things. Thompson not only wanted to get back for psychological reasons, but he was a key player in 1993 and wanted to help his team win the NL West. They didn't even put Thompson on the DL, they just threw a football-looking helmet on him and ran him out there a week later after the incident, because there was a point to it.

Cain was placed on the 15 day DL for something that isn't really a big deal...that says a lot about what the front office wants to see happen here. IMO, even they recognize that there's no point to letting Cain pitch anymore this year.

So yah, Cain may WANT to come back, but this is a totally different situation compared to your RT example. Not even close.
[ Edited by GhostofFredDean74 on Aug 24, 2013 at 10:38 AM ]
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by Hopper:
Originally posted by Niners99:

Cain is headed to the DL. You want him to return to pitch meaningless innings in September?

There's really no point.

You want the last pitch he threw to be a comebacker that nailed him? He isnt going to want to sit on that all offseason. Let him rehab, come back this year, set an innings limit and dont make him go 7.5 months between regular season starts over a forearm bruise.

Not really a valid reason to let him pitch again. There's both the logistics of it and the reasoning behind it. Logistically, he won't be back until mid-September at the earliest (15 day DL and at least 2 rehab starts). He'd be building up his arm strength to pitch again only to shut it down a few weeks later in a year where we'll likely lose ~95 games.

I'm not seeing the logic.

Krukow even explained why its important that Cain comes back from this before the end of the year. Its a mental/confidence thing. He talked about the time when Trevor Hoffman hit Robby Thompson in the face with a 96 mph fastball, and he fought to rehab in time to get back in a game before the season ended. It was a big deal to him that he came back and finished the year out into a normal offseason.

Players dont want to end a season injured. Cain doesnt want to wait 7.5 months to pitch in a real game again. Hes a tough guy, dont worry about his arm. It might be just as bad to give him that much of an offseason. If we were in a race he wouldnt have gone on the DL. You skip a start and work the bruise out of your arm. Cain undoubtedly wants to pitch again this year, and he will.

Getting hit in the face/breaking your cheekbone in the heat of a pennant race, and getting hit in the arm/contusion on a last place team in late August are two VERY different things. Thompson not only wanted to get back for psychological reasons, but he was a key player in 1993 and wanted to help his team win the NL West. They didn't even put Thompson on the DL, they just threw a football-looking helmet on him and ran him out there a week later after the incident, because there was a point to it.

Cain was placed on the 15 day DL for something that isn't really a big deal...that says a lot about what the front office wants to see happen here. IMO, even they recognize that there's no point to letting Cain pitch anymore this year.

So yah, Cain may WANT to come back, but this is a totally different situation compared to your RT example. Not even close.

Krukow was just comparing the situations based on the mentality of a baseball player. I think its important for Cain to pitch again this season. If Cain tells the Giants he doesnt want to enter his offseason already, they arent going to deny him a chance to come back. Its going overboard to shut him down based on a contusion. He isnt having elbow or shoulder pain, and he wasnt hit in the head. Hes going to get the next 2+ weeks off, and all of October off in addition to the offseason. His arm will be fine for next year. Its more important that he keeps things on a normal schedule.

I think everyone is making far too big a deal out of it. The DL stint is just an excuse to give some spot starters a chance to pitch in a lost season. They arent worried about his arm health, which is why I think he pitches again before the end of the season.
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by Hopper:
Originally posted by Niners99:

Cain is headed to the DL. You want him to return to pitch meaningless innings in September?

There's really no point.

You want the last pitch he threw to be a comebacker that nailed him? He isnt going to want to sit on that all offseason. Let him rehab, come back this year, set an innings limit and dont make him go 7.5 months between regular season starts over a forearm bruise.

Not really a valid reason to let him pitch again. There's both the logistics of it and the reasoning behind it. Logistically, he won't be back until mid-September at the earliest (15 day DL and at least 2 rehab starts). He'd be building up his arm strength to pitch again only to shut it down a few weeks later in a year where we'll likely lose ~95 games.

I'm not seeing the logic.

Krukow even explained why its important that Cain comes back from this before the end of the year. Its a mental/confidence thing. He talked about the time when Trevor Hoffman hit Robby Thompson in the face with a 96 mph fastball, and he fought to rehab in time to get back in a game before the season ended. It was a big deal to him that he came back and finished the year out into a normal offseason.

Players dont want to end a season injured. Cain doesnt want to wait 7.5 months to pitch in a real game again. Hes a tough guy, dont worry about his arm. It might be just as bad to give him that much of an offseason. If we were in a race he wouldnt have gone on the DL. You skip a start and work the bruise out of your arm. Cain undoubtedly wants to pitch again this year, and he will.

Getting hit in the face/breaking your cheekbone in the heat of a pennant race, and getting hit in the arm/contusion on a last place team in late August are two VERY different things. Thompson not only wanted to get back for psychological reasons, but he was a key player in 1993 and wanted to help his team win the NL West. They didn't even put Thompson on the DL, they just threw a football-looking helmet on him and ran him out there a week later after the incident, because there was a point to it.

Cain was placed on the 15 day DL for something that isn't really a big deal...that says a lot about what the front office wants to see happen here. IMO, even they recognize that there's no point to letting Cain pitch anymore this year.

So yah, Cain may WANT to come back, but this is a totally different situation compared to your RT example. Not even close.

Krukow was just comparing the situations based on the mentality of a baseball player. I think its important for Cain to pitch again this season. If Cain tells the Giants he doesnt want to enter his offseason already, they arent going to deny him a chance to come back. Its going overboard to shut him down based on a contusion. He isnt having elbow or shoulder pain, and he wasnt hit in the head. Hes going to get the next 2+ weeks off, and all of October off in addition to the offseason. His arm will be fine for next year. Its more important that he keeps things on a normal schedule.

I think everyone is making far too big a deal out of it. The DL stint is just an excuse to give some spot starters a chance to pitch in a lost season. They arent worried about his arm health, which is why I think he pitches again before the end of the season.

I think you keep missing my point. They're not/they wouldn't be shutting him down because of an arm contusion...they'd be shutting him down because there's no point to him pitching again this year. He's averaged over 200 innings pitched the last 8 years plus ~50 innings of post-season work. That's A LOT of innings. Everyone knows that pitchers only have so many throws in their arm so it makes sense to save those throws for when it actually matters...and it no longer matters.

I'm not saying Cain won't be back because I don't know that for sure...only Sabean and Bochy do. I'm just saying, there's no longer a point baseball-wise to him pitching again this year. I'd give as many starts as possible to as many rookies as possible just to see what they can do. And, given their remaining 4 year, multi-million $$ investment in Cain, it also makes business sense to shut him down, regardless of what he wants.

You clearly disagree, I get it.
[ Edited by GhostofFredDean74 on Aug 24, 2013 at 11:25 AM ]
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by Hopper:
Originally posted by Niners99:

Cain is headed to the DL. You want him to return to pitch meaningless innings in September?

There's really no point.

You want the last pitch he threw to be a comebacker that nailed him? He isnt going to want to sit on that all offseason. Let him rehab, come back this year, set an innings limit and dont make him go 7.5 months between regular season starts over a forearm bruise.

Not really a valid reason to let him pitch again. There's both the logistics of it and the reasoning behind it. Logistically, he won't be back until mid-September at the earliest (15 day DL and at least 2 rehab starts). He'd be building up his arm strength to pitch again only to shut it down a few weeks later in a year where we'll likely lose ~95 games.

I'm not seeing the logic.

Krukow even explained why its important that Cain comes back from this before the end of the year. Its a mental/confidence thing. He talked about the time when Trevor Hoffman hit Robby Thompson in the face with a 96 mph fastball, and he fought to rehab in time to get back in a game before the season ended. It was a big deal to him that he came back and finished the year out into a normal offseason.

Players dont want to end a season injured. Cain doesnt want to wait 7.5 months to pitch in a real game again. Hes a tough guy, dont worry about his arm. It might be just as bad to give him that much of an offseason. If we were in a race he wouldnt have gone on the DL. You skip a start and work the bruise out of your arm. Cain undoubtedly wants to pitch again this year, and he will.

Getting hit in the face/breaking your cheekbone in the heat of a pennant race, and getting hit in the arm/contusion on a last place team in late August are two VERY different things. Thompson not only wanted to get back for psychological reasons, but he was a key player in 1993 and wanted to help his team win the NL West. They didn't even put Thompson on the DL, they just threw a football-looking helmet on him and ran him out there a week later after the incident, because there was a point to it.

Cain was placed on the 15 day DL for something that isn't really a big deal...that says a lot about what the front office wants to see happen here. IMO, even they recognize that there's no point to letting Cain pitch anymore this year.

So yah, Cain may WANT to come back, but this is a totally different situation compared to your RT example. Not even close.

Krukow was just comparing the situations based on the mentality of a baseball player. I think its important for Cain to pitch again this season. If Cain tells the Giants he doesnt want to enter his offseason already, they arent going to deny him a chance to come back. Its going overboard to shut him down based on a contusion. He isnt having elbow or shoulder pain, and he wasnt hit in the head. Hes going to get the next 2+ weeks off, and all of October off in addition to the offseason. His arm will be fine for next year. Its more important that he keeps things on a normal schedule.

I think everyone is making far too big a deal out of it. The DL stint is just an excuse to give some spot starters a chance to pitch in a lost season. They arent worried about his arm health, which is why I think he pitches again before the end of the season.

I think you keep missing my point. They're not/they wouldn't be shutting him down because of an arm contusion...they'd be shutting him down because there's no point to him pitching again this year. He's averaged over 200 innings pitched the last 8 years plus ~50 innings of post-season work. That's A LOT of innings. Everyone knows that pitchers only have so many throws in their arm so it makes sense to save those throws for when it actually matters...and it no longer matters.

I'm not saying Cain won't be back because I don't know that for sure...only Sabean and Bochy do. I'm just saying, there's no longer a point baseball-wise to him pitching again this year. I'd give as many starts as possible to as many rookies as possible just to see what they can do. And, given their remaining 4 year, multi-million $$ investment in Cain, it also makes business sense to shut him down, regardless of what he wants.

You clearly disagree, I get it.

I get where youre coming from, I just dont think youre viewing it from Matt Cain's perspective.

I think he should get a couple more starts before the end of the season for continuity purposes. I dont really want him showing up to Spring Training in march having gone 6.5 months without pitching. Thats a little overboard with the rest. Im sure he would like to keep as much of his normal offseason routine in order as far as how much time off he has from being on a mound.

If the general opinion in baseball was that valuable SP were better off getting maximum rest, and not used in meaningless games, youd see every team out of contention shutting down their good SP in early August.
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Getting hit in the face/breaking your cheekbone in the heat of a pennant race, and getting hit in the arm/contusion on a last place team in late August are two VERY different things. Thompson not only wanted to get back for psychological reasons, but he was a key player in 1993 and wanted to help his team win the NL West. They didn't even put Thompson on the DL, they just threw a football-looking helmet on him and ran him out there a week later after the incident, because there was a point to it.

Cain was placed on the 15 day DL for something that isn't really a big deal...that says a lot about what the front office wants to see happen here. IMO, even they recognize that there's no point to letting Cain pitch anymore this year.

So yah, Cain may WANT to come back, but this is a totally different situation compared to your RT example. Not even close.

Hey Ghost I think I've already asked you this before and I'm sorry for forgetting, but I'm headed to a Salem Volcanoes game tonight and I want to know who I should look out for?
Originally posted by OregonDuckNiner:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Getting hit in the face/breaking your cheekbone in the heat of a pennant race, and getting hit in the arm/contusion on a last place team in late August are two VERY different things. Thompson not only wanted to get back for psychological reasons, but he was a key player in 1993 and wanted to help his team win the NL West. They didn't even put Thompson on the DL, they just threw a football-looking helmet on him and ran him out there a week later after the incident, because there was a point to it.

Cain was placed on the 15 day DL for something that isn't really a big deal...that says a lot about what the front office wants to see happen here. IMO, even they recognize that there's no point to letting Cain pitch anymore this year.

So yah, Cain may WANT to come back, but this is a totally different situation compared to your RT example. Not even close.

Hey Ghost I think I've already asked you this before and I'm sorry for forgetting, but I'm headed to a Salem Volcanoes game tonight and I want to know who I should look out for?

Brian Ragira, Chase Johnson, and Daniel Slania are the guys that stand out to me.

Its short season, so alot of guys from this years draft. Vander Tuig, Bednar, Horan, etc.
[ Edited by Niners99 on Aug 24, 2013 at 1:19 PM ]
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