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2013 San Francisco Giants Thread

Originally posted by sfgiantdave:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by Frisco69ers:
Originally posted by itlynstalyn:
Originally posted by Frisco69ers:
Originally posted by OregonDuckNiner:
Originally posted by Frisco69ers:
its seems the majority of us fans are reading to give up on CF Gary Brown.

He hasn't given us any reason not to since his breakout year in Single-A. He's a speed guy who has a low batting average, strikes out way too much and has a horrible SB percentage.

I agree, if he still has some value lets deal him in a package for Norris. I really like Perez and cant wait till he has Torres job.

I think this is probably the best thing to do. He had one hot streak in AAA last month where he seemed to turn it around but since then he's gone back down to normal levels. Aside from his 12 HR's, he doesn't do a lot of what you'd expect out of a traditional CF besides play decent defense.

who do we value more as a young arm between Blackburn and Stratton? (I know Crick is #1)

I would say Stratton is valued higher. He was a #1 pick just last year compared to Blackburn being a 16th rd pick. More likely to have the bigger upside although he is 3 years older.

For what it's worth, here some pitchers who I think rank higher in the depth chart than Stratton,

Edwin Escobar Richmond recently promoted
Kyle Crick San Jose
Ty Blach San Jose
Clayton Blackburn San Jose
Martin Agosta Augusta
Joan Gregorio Augusta

I'm sorry but Chris Stratton is 22 turn 23 next month in low a ball in Augusta, has a 3.96 ERA and has a WHIP of 1.33, this is not someone I would call an untouchable.

Here is my offer to Houston, Gary Brown, Joe Panik, and Chris Stratton for Bud Norris. Our first round picks in 2010, 2011, and 2012 don't look promising to me one bit maybe by combing all three of them maybe we could get a decent major leaguer for a couple of years.

IMO, GMs look at most prospects as chips and not so much as players, and I think that's too many chips to give up for Norris. Though I'd be really hesitant to give up on Stratton so quickly, I'd MAYBE package him with Panik to get Norris...but definitely not Brown AND Panik AND Stratton.
[ Edited by GhostofFredDean74 on Jul 19, 2013 at 1:18 PM ]
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
IMO, GMs look at prospects as chips and not so much as players, and I think that's too many chips to give up for Norris. Though I'd be really hesitant to give up on Stratton so quickly, I'd MAYBE package him with Panik to get Norris...but definitely not Brown AND Panik AND Stratton.

Agreed. Too much. I have to believe they would jump on Stratton and Brown for Norris.
Originally posted by sfgiantdave:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by Frisco69ers:
Originally posted by itlynstalyn:
Originally posted by Frisco69ers:
Originally posted by OregonDuckNiner:
Originally posted by Frisco69ers:
its seems the majority of us fans are reading to give up on CF Gary Brown.

He hasn't given us any reason not to since his breakout year in Single-A. He's a speed guy who has a low batting average, strikes out way too much and has a horrible SB percentage.

I agree, if he still has some value lets deal him in a package for Norris. I really like Perez and cant wait till he has Torres job.

I think this is probably the best thing to do. He had one hot streak in AAA last month where he seemed to turn it around but since then he's gone back down to normal levels. Aside from his 12 HR's, he doesn't do a lot of what you'd expect out of a traditional CF besides play decent defense.

who do we value more as a young arm between Blackburn and Stratton? (I know Crick is #1)

I would say Stratton is valued higher. He was a #1 pick just last year compared to Blackburn being a 16th rd pick. More likely to have the bigger upside although he is 3 years older.

For what it's worth, here some pitchers who I think rank higher in the depth chart than Stratton,

Edwin Escobar Richmond recently promoted
Kyle Crick San Jose
Ty Blach San Jose
Clayton Blackburn San Jose
Martin Agosta Augusta
Joan Gregorio Augusta

I'm sorry but Chris Stratton is 22 turn 23 next month in low a ball in Augusta, has a 3.96 ERA and has a WHIP of 1.33, this is not someone I would call an untouchable.

Here is my offer to Houston, Gary Brown, Joe Panik, and Chris Stratton for Bud Norris. Our first round picks in 2010, 2011, and 2012 don't look promising to me one bit maybe by combing all three of them maybe we could get a decent major leaguer for a couple of years.

You are treating Bud Norris as WAY too valuable. It wouldnt cost us 3 of our top 10 guys to get him. And I dont get why you hate Stratton so much. You rank him under all those guys? If the Giants have proven 1 thing, its that they know how to draft and develop pitching. Stratton was a 1st rounder last year. Youre dropping him below Joan Gregorio because hes not shooting up the ranks in 1.5 seasons? Really? lol Youre offering Houston our 2010, 2011, and 2012 1st round picks for Bud Norris.
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
IMO, GMs look at prospects as chips and not so much as players, and I think that's too many chips to give up for Norris. Though I'd be really hesitant to give up on Stratton so quickly, I'd MAYBE package him with Panik to get Norris...but definitely not Brown AND Panik AND Stratton.

Agreed. Too much. I have to believe they would jump on Stratton and Brown for Norris.

They'd definitely jump on that deal, even with both struggling (to different degrees) in the minors. That might even be a little high given what the Dodgers gave up to get Nolasco....two mediocre relievers and one talented-but-currently-struggling young starter who is about the equivalent of Adalberto Mejia. True, Nolasco could walk and Norris is under club control through 2014, but that's still a bag of peanuts compared to Stratton and Brown.
[ Edited by GhostofFredDean74 on Jul 19, 2013 at 1:29 PM ]
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by sfgiantdave:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by Frisco69ers:
Originally posted by itlynstalyn:
Originally posted by Frisco69ers:
Originally posted by OregonDuckNiner:
Originally posted by Frisco69ers:
its seems the majority of us fans are reading to give up on CF Gary Brown.

He hasn't given us any reason not to since his breakout year in Single-A. He's a speed guy who has a low batting average, strikes out way too much and has a horrible SB percentage.

I agree, if he still has some value lets deal him in a package for Norris. I really like Perez and cant wait till he has Torres job.

I think this is probably the best thing to do. He had one hot streak in AAA last month where he seemed to turn it around but since then he's gone back down to normal levels. Aside from his 12 HR's, he doesn't do a lot of what you'd expect out of a traditional CF besides play decent defense.

who do we value more as a young arm between Blackburn and Stratton? (I know Crick is #1)

I would say Stratton is valued higher. He was a #1 pick just last year compared to Blackburn being a 16th rd pick. More likely to have the bigger upside although he is 3 years older.

For what it's worth, here some pitchers who I think rank higher in the depth chart than Stratton,

Edwin Escobar Richmond recently promoted
Kyle Crick San Jose
Ty Blach San Jose
Clayton Blackburn San Jose
Martin Agosta Augusta
Joan Gregorio Augusta

I'm sorry but Chris Stratton is 22 turn 23 next month in low a ball in Augusta, has a 3.96 ERA and has a WHIP of 1.33, this is not someone I would call an untouchable.

Here is my offer to Houston, Gary Brown, Joe Panik, and Chris Stratton for Bud Norris. Our first round picks in 2010, 2011, and 2012 don't look promising to me one bit maybe by combing all three of them maybe we could get a decent major leaguer for a couple of years.

You are treating Bud Norris as WAY too valuable. It wouldnt cost us 3 of our top 10 guys to get him. And I dont get why you hate Stratton so much. You rank him under all those guys? If the Giants have proven 1 thing, its that they know how to draft and develop pitching. Stratton was a 1st rounder last year. Youre dropping him below Joan Gregorio because hes not shooting up the ranks in 1.5 seasons? Really? lol Youre offering Houston our 2010, 2011, and 2012 1st round picks for Bud Norris.

I don't always agree with 99, but he's 100% correct here. Here's how I'd rate them as of today:

1 - Kyle Crick, R - (clear #1 ranked)
2 - Chris Stratton, R - (mostly on potential)
3 - Martin Agosta, R - (toss-up between him and Escobar, IMO)
4 - Edwin Escobar, L - (could see him in SF by late 2014)
5 - Ty Blach, L - (might fast-track him too)
6 - Clayton Blackburn, R - (getting his groove back lately)
7 - Joan Gregorio, R - (nice potential; production is there too)
8 - Adalberto Mejia, L - (coming on)
9 - Kendry Flores, R - (under the radar)
10 - Chase Johnson, R - (early, but looks great so far)

Btw, I think Kickham could still end up adding value as a reliever. As he builds confidence over time, he could eventually be in the starting mix again...I just wouldn't rule him out completely, but more so as a reliever right now.
[ Edited by GhostofFredDean74 on Jul 19, 2013 at 1:45 PM ]
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Rarely agree with 99, but he's 100% correct here. Here's how I'd rate them as of today:

1- Kyle Crick (clear #1 ranked)
2 - Chris Stratton (mostly on potential)
3 - Martin Agosta (toss-up between him and Escobar, IMO)
4 - Edwin Escobar (could see him in SF by late 2014)
5 - Ty Blach (might fast-track him too)
6 - Clayton Blackburn (getting his groove back lately)
7 - Joan Gregorio (nice potential; production is there too)
8 - Adalberto Mejia (coming on)
9 - Kendry Flores (under the radar)
10 - Chase Johnson (early, but looks great so far)

That sounds right to me too. Crick is only untouchable. Then there are a few guys pretty close but Stratton because of his draft selection and upside has to be #2 still. Just wish we had this depth in our OF prospects.
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Rarely agree with 99, but he's 100% correct here. Here's how I'd rate them as of today:

1- Kyle Crick (clear #1 ranked)
2 - Chris Stratton (mostly on potential)
3 - Martin Agosta (toss-up between him and Escobar, IMO)
4 - Edwin Escobar (could see him in SF by late 2014)
5 - Ty Blach (might fast-track him too)
6 - Clayton Blackburn (getting his groove back lately)
7 - Joan Gregorio (nice potential; production is there too)
8 - Adalberto Mejia (coming on)
9 - Kendry Flores (under the radar)
10 - Chase Johnson (early, but looks great so far)

That sounds right to me too. Crick is only untouchable. Then there are a few guys pretty close but Stratton because of his draft selection and upside has to be #2 still. Just wish we had this depth in our OF prospects.

1 - Gary Brown, CF - mostly on reputation and potential
2 - Mac Williamson, RF - best REAL OF prospect in our system (IMO)
3 - Roger Kieschnick, RF - potential is still there, but he's running out of time
4 - Juan Perez, CF - plus defender/speed/arm...needs to reduce K's
5 - Peguero, RafRod, Jarrett Parker, Chuckie Jones, Brian Ragira, Gustavo Cabrera???
[ Edited by GhostofFredDean74 on Jul 19, 2013 at 1:54 PM ]
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
1 - Gary Brown, CF - mostly on reputation and potential
2 - Mac Williamson, RF - best REAL OF prospect in our system (IMO)
3 - Roger Kieschnick, RF - potential is still there, but he's running out of time
4 - Juan Perez, CF - plus defender/speed/arm...needs to reduce K's
5 - Peguero, RafRod, Jarrett Parker, Chuckie Jones, Brian Ragira, Gustavo Cabrera???

Not good.
I just asked Jim Callis if he thought Stratton and Brown would be enough for Norris. He said... probably not. Doesnt think Brown is very good.
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
1 - Gary Brown, CF - mostly on reputation and potential
2 - Mac Williamson, RF - best REAL OF prospect in our system (IMO)
3 - Roger Kieschnick, RF - potential is still there, but he's running out of time
4 - Juan Perez, CF - plus defender/speed/arm...needs to reduce K's
5 - Peguero, RafRod, Jarrett Parker, Chuckie Jones, Brian Ragira, Gustavo Cabrera???

Not good.

Especially if we don't find a way to re-sign Pence. If we keep Pence, we at least have 2/3rds of the OF covered. If we don't re-sign him....

[ Edited by GhostofFredDean74 on Jul 19, 2013 at 2:04 PM ]
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
I just asked Jim Callis if he thought Stratton and Brown would be enough for Norris. He said... probably not. Doesnt think Brown is very good.

Well, that's discouraging but not surprising.
In a previous post, I should say I started from Richmond and worked all the way down to Augusta, the names weren't in any particular order and Kyle Crick in my opinion is our best prospect

Again I'm just not sold on Chris Stratton, I would love to be proven wrong on this.
[ Edited by sfgiantdave on Jul 19, 2013 at 2:30 PM ]
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by Frisco69ers:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by Frisco69ers:
Originally posted by itlynstalyn:
Originally posted by Frisco69ers:
Originally posted by OregonDuckNiner:
Originally posted by Frisco69ers:
its seems the majority of us fans are reading to give up on CF Gary Brown.

He hasn't given us any reason not to since his breakout year in Single-A. He's a speed guy who has a low batting average, strikes out way too much and has a horrible SB percentage.

I agree, if he still has some value lets deal him in a package for Norris. I really like Perez and cant wait till he has Torres job.

I think this is probably the best thing to do. He had one hot streak in AAA last month where he seemed to turn it around but since then he's gone back down to normal levels. Aside from his 12 HR's, he doesn't do a lot of what you'd expect out of a traditional CF besides play decent defense.

who do we value more as a young arm between Blackburn and Stratton? (I know Crick is #1)

If I had to guess, the team probably values Stratton more given their investment in him. IMO though, Blackburn has more long-term upside.

so could a package like Blackburn & Brown be enough to get us Bud Norris?

I think so...they get a guy in Brown who was once highly rated and is pretty close to being major league ready (in theory), and a young RHP in Blackburn whose underlying MiLB pitching stats are stellar.

agreed, I would make this deal in a heartbeat.

2014:

Vogey reries, Zito not retained:

Timmy resigns for 2 yr deal.

1) Cain R
2) MadBum L
3) Norris R
4) Timmy R
5) Surkamp? L
[ Edited by Frisco69ers on Jul 19, 2013 at 2:48 PM ]
Gregor Blanco CF, Marco Scutaro 2B, Buster Posey C, Pablo Sandoval 3B, Hunter Pence RF, Brandon Belt 1B, Kensuke Tanaka LF, Brandon Crawford SS, (Chad Gaudin P)
Originally posted by Frisco69ers:
agreed, I would make this deal in a heartbeat.

2014:

Vogey reries, Zito not retained:

Timmy resigns for 2 yr deal.

1) Cain R
2) MadBum L
3) Norris R
4) Timmy R
5) Surkamp? L

Gaudin has been great so far. If he keeps it up he would be far better than Surkamp.
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