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2013 San Francisco Giants Thread

Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by OregonDuckNiner:
Who would you all prefer, Norris or Nolasco?

Gut tells me the latter, but I'm not really sure.

Norris. Hes a couple years younger, better K rate, and hes under team control for the next couple years. Nolasco is a f/a this winter. Considering were probably going to have to overpay to put in a winning bid on either guy, id prefer to get the guy who's got a little more potential and keep-ability.

Both would be solid pickups, but I just worry about the price. They arent worth losing a good prospect for.

I agree and disagree. I prefer Norris as well as he has a very good contract and would be under team control. I disagree about losing a "good" prospect though. I wouldnt give up our best prospects such as Crick but I would be willing to trade anyone outside of Crick, Statton, and maybe Villalona for him.

Peguero and Heston for Norris.

By "good" prospect, i meant Crick, Stratton, and Blackburn. I dont consider many of the Giants top prospects all that good when you compare them to the rest of baseball. I think the 3 I listed are probably the only 3 that will be even close to top 100 next year.

Yep. I agree that the Giants prospects are pretty mediocre. Crick might actually be the only top 100 next year. Pretty sad when you think about it.

There are a few teams looking for starting pitching and there will be competition for Nolasco, Norris, Gallardo, Garza, and Feldman ( to name the top out there). I'm sure that Baltimore, Washington, Yankees, Giants, and Cleveland will all be looking for starting pitching. Hopefully Sabean doesnt go nuts and do something silly.
The Giants have a worse run differential than the Chicago Fricking Cubs. That is just awful and embarrasing. There is no question that the injuries to Panda, Scutaro, Pagan, Castillo, and Vogelsong have been a key reason for this but it is still shocking they are this bad at this point. Still, with all that they are right in the race.
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by OregonDuckNiner:
Who would you all prefer, Norris or Nolasco?

Gut tells me the latter, but I'm not really sure.

Norris. Hes a couple years younger, better K rate, and hes under team control for the next couple years. Nolasco is a f/a this winter. Considering were probably going to have to overpay to put in a winning bid on either guy, id prefer to get the guy who's got a little more potential and keep-ability.

Both would be solid pickups, but I just worry about the price. They arent worth losing a good prospect for.

I agree and disagree. I prefer Norris as well as he has a very good contract and would be under team control. I disagree about losing a "good" prospect though. I wouldnt give up our best prospects such as Crick but I would be willing to trade anyone outside of Crick, Statton, and maybe Villalona for him.

Peguero and Heston for Norris.

By "good" prospect, i meant Crick, Stratton, and Blackburn. I dont consider many of the Giants top prospects all that good when you compare them to the rest of baseball. I think the 3 I listed are probably the only 3 that will be even close to top 100 next year.

Yep. I agree that the Giants prospects are pretty mediocre. Crick might actually be the only top 100 next year. Pretty sad when you think about it.

There are a few teams looking for starting pitching and there will be competition for Nolasco, Norris, Gallardo, Garza, and Feldman ( to name the top out there). I'm sure that Baltimore, Washington, Yankees, Giants, and Cleveland will all be looking for starting pitching. Hopefully Sabean doesnt go nuts and do something silly.

To me, the only thing Sabean could do that would be considered "nuts" is trading Crick (very similar to Wheeler in terms of stuff/potential, IMO). Short of that, I don't think it would be overly risky to move any of our other prospects especially for someone that we could control for a few years (e.g., Norris). Of course that doesn't mean we should give away the farm, but packaging someone like Gary Brown and say Ty Blach might make sense. Whether it's good enough to get Norris is another matter though.
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
To me, the only thing Sabean could do that would be considered "nuts" is trading Crick (very similar to Wheeler in terms of stuff/potential, IMO). Short of that, I don't think it would be overly risky to move any of our other prospects especially for someone that we could control for a few years (e.g., Norris). Of course that doesn't mean we should give away the farm, but packaging someone like Gary Brown and say Ty Blach might make sense. Whether it's good enough to get Norris is another matter though.

I'm with GhostofGredDean74,

I only see Kyle Crick as being the only big time impact prospect with a very high ceiling.

I'm just unable to get sold on pitching stats of 22 year olds in Low A Ball Augusta
Originally posted by sfgiantdave:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
To me, the only thing Sabean could do that would be considered "nuts" is trading Crick (very similar to Wheeler in terms of stuff/potential, IMO). Short of that, I don't think it would be overly risky to move any of our other prospects especially for someone that we could control for a few years (e.g., Norris). Of course that doesn't mean we should give away the farm, but packaging someone like Gary Brown and say Ty Blach might make sense. Whether it's good enough to get Norris is another matter though.

I'm with GhostofGredDean74,

I only see Kyle Crick as being the only big time impact prospect with a very high ceiling.

I'm just unable to get sold on pitching stats of 22 year olds in Low A Ball Augusta

And btw, it's not that I think Norris is a world-beater or anything. It's just that competent starting pitching is so hard to find that when you can get a solid young starter for more than a 2-month rental period, it will be costly. Now, I hope we don't have to give up a Gary Brown or anyone else that has REAL potential, but the market will dictate that we give up something of actual value to get a solid #3/4 starter.
Originally posted by sfgiantdave:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
To me, the only thing Sabean could do that would be considered "nuts" is trading Crick (very similar to Wheeler in terms of stuff/potential, IMO). Short of that, I don't think it would be overly risky to move any of our other prospects especially for someone that we could control for a few years (e.g., Norris). Of course that doesn't mean we should give away the farm, but packaging someone like Gary Brown and say Ty Blach might make sense. Whether it's good enough to get Norris is another matter though.

I'm with GhostofGredDean74,

I only see Kyle Crick as being the only big time impact prospect with a very high ceiling.

I'm just unable to get sold on pitching stats of 22 year olds in Low A Ball Augusta

I guess you dont think the Giants should draft college pitching then. Most of their pitchers start at Low A ball and work there way up and are going to be 21-22 . Stratton and Agosta were their top 2 picks last year and have pitched well in Augusta. I'm sure they will advance to San Jose before the end of the year. I am not saying they are the prospects that Crick is by any means but still good prospects at this point.
[ Edited by Ninerjohn on Jun 24, 2013 at 1:26 PM ]
you cant give away Stratton. We just picked him and he looks solid. He was a college pitcher, so he is a few years older. It also means he potentially can go through the minors faster.

Keep Krick. Work a deal. Get me a SP and a bullpen pitcher Sabean. At this point I would be Ok with giving up Brown since the Gs dont plan on giving him a shot. But I would rather give up Peguero.
Originally posted by Rubberneck36:
you cant give away Stratton. We just picked him and he looks solid. He was a college pitcher, so he is a few years older. It also means he potentially can go through the minors faster.

Keep Krick. Work a deal. Get me a SP and a bullpen pitcher Sabean. At this point I would be Ok with giving up Brown since the Gs dont plan on giving him a shot. But I would rather give up Peguero.

I think the Giants told us what they really thought of Gary Brown when they were willing to give Angel Pagan a 40 million dollar deal. If they thought Brown was a stud they never would have done that. I do think he will be part of a trade for a starter and I am fine with that at this point. I'd rather trade a singles hitter who cant steal bases than a power arm.
Originally posted by Rubberneck36:
you cant give away Stratton. We just picked him and he looks solid. He was a college pitcher, so he is a few years older. It also means he potentially can go through the minors faster.

Keep Krick. Work a deal. Get me a SP and a bullpen pitcher Sabean. At this point I would be Ok with giving up Brown since the Gs dont plan on giving him a shot. But I would rather give up Peguero.

Yah, I don't think you just give Stratton away...but if Stratton could get something really solid in return, you have to look at it. My only point was, the one guy who shouldn't be in any discussions is Crick. He's not a Zach Wheeler, but he's the closest thing to it that we have and should be off the table.
[ Edited by GhostofFredDean74 on Jun 24, 2013 at 1:39 PM ]
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by Rubberneck36:
you cant give away Stratton. We just picked him and he looks solid. He was a college pitcher, so he is a few years older. It also means he potentially can go through the minors faster.

Keep Krick. Work a deal. Get me a SP and a bullpen pitcher Sabean. At this point I would be Ok with giving up Brown since the Gs dont plan on giving him a shot. But I would rather give up Peguero.

I think the Giants told us what they really thought of Gary Brown when they were willing to give Angel Pagan a 40 million dollar deal. If they thought Brown was a stud they never would have done that. I do think he will be part of a trade for a starter and I am fine with that at this point. I'd rather trade a singles hitter who cant steal bases than a power arm.

To think the Mets wanted Gary Brown first...

The Giants should just not put any stock into a hitting prospect unless they are on the Posey level of "cant miss". Their track record of developing hitters is so bad its mind boggling. They put way too much faith in Brown for the level he was playing in at the time. Now he probably would barely get us Bud Norris, if that.

At some point we need to go outside the organization and hire someone with a track record of developing good hitters to be an assistant GM or assistant scouting director. We obviously have nobody in the building who knows how to scout hitting. Even if they werent directly in charge of their former team, just someone who comes from an organization that knows what to look for, who was involved in the process directly, and saw fruitful results.

We put way too much emphasis on an aggressive hitting approach in our system. We look for guys who swing early and often, and we teach our minor leaguers to do so as well. While its not totally a bad thing, I think its too extreme. The Giants seem to shun hitters who are patient. I can easily see why we liked Hunter Pence. Hes our type of guy. He swings early and often. I just want to stress getting on base more. Our style of development tends to produce alot of free swinging busts.

To be fair, the Giants are always in the bottom 5 for team strikeouts, but the lack of ability to make the starter work for his outs is KILLING us. Especially in an era when pitch count is such a factor. Bullpens are generally bad, get into them early! Make the pitcher sweat to get his outs. We have too many guys swinging at the first pitch and making easy outs. Its one thing if the opposing pitcher has it going, there isnt much you can do. But we bail pitchers out too often imo. Id like to see a more balanced approach starting in the farm system.
I totally agree on Crick. That's a must keeper.
Look I wouldn't trade Stratton for an average rental, but I would do it for Norris who we control over for a couple additional seasons. At least we would have another sure starter in the rotation for the next couple of years while Stratton may or may not pan out.
would be down to trade Heston. He is valued at top 10 correct?
Vogey on 95.7 The Game this morning: "Brian Wilson is coming back. He is going to pitch in the Major Leagues again."
Originally posted by sfgiantdave:
Look I wouldn't trade Stratton for an average rental, but I would do it for Norris who we control over for a couple additional seasons. At least we would have another sure starter in the rotation for the next couple of years while Stratton may or may not pan out.

Totally disagree. Chris Stratton is going to be at very least a solid 3 starter in the Majors. The Giants know their pitching prospects, and he was a mid first round pick just a year ago. I think the Giants view him in the same vein as Matt Cain and Madison Bumgarner. They like well built pitchers from the south with good control and velocity.

He's just starting out as a pro, and to give him up for a mediocre SP like Bud Norris just because he hasnt shot through the farm system would be terribly short-sighted. Bud Norris is not that great. He'd stick in the rotation just fine, and be a good replacement for Vogelsong, Zito, or Lincecum in the coming years, but trading Stratton for him would be a huge mistake. I think the Astros would be over the moon if Sabean offered Stratton, and we'd get made fun of all around baseball for once again giving up a big potential SP so easily.
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