2013 San Francisco Giants Thread

Originally posted by sfgiantdave:
Look I wouldn't trade Stratton for an average rental, but I would do it for Norris who we control over for a couple additional seasons. At least we would have another sure starter in the rotation for the next couple of years while Stratton may or may not pan out.

Totally disagree. Chris Stratton is going to be at very least a solid 3 starter in the Majors. The Giants know their pitching prospects, and he was a mid first round pick just a year ago. I think the Giants view him in the same vein as Matt Cain and Madison Bumgarner. They like well built pitchers from the south with good control and velocity.

He's just starting out as a pro, and to give him up for a mediocre SP like Bud Norris just because he hasnt shot through the farm system would be terribly short-sighted. Bud Norris is not that great. He'd stick in the rotation just fine, and be a good replacement for Vogelsong, Zito, or Lincecum in the coming years, but trading Stratton for him would be a huge mistake. I think the Astros would be over the moon if Sabean offered Stratton, and we'd get made fun of all around baseball for once again giving up a big potential SP so easily.

Originally posted by SF69ers:
Vogey on 95.7 The Game this morning: "Brian Wilson is coming back. He is going to pitch in the Major Leagues again."

so is Vogey his agent now?

Originally posted by SF69ers:

Vogey on 95.7 The Game this morning: "Brian Wilson is coming back. He is going to pitch in the Major Leagues again."

we need him. sign him, Sabs!

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by SF69ers:
Vogey on 95.7 The Game this morning: "Brian Wilson is coming back. He is going to pitch in the Major Leagues again."

we need him. sign him, Sabs!

Wilson is going to be willing to sign for a VERY low base salary with incentive clauses built in for performance and innings pitched. My guess is that he wont pitch this year.

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by sfgiantdave:
Look I wouldn't trade Stratton for an average rental, but I would do it for Norris who we control over for a couple additional seasons. At least we would have another sure starter in the rotation for the next couple of years while Stratton may or may not pan out.

Totally disagree. Chris Stratton is going to be at very least a solid 3 starter in the Majors. The Giants know their pitching prospects, and he was a mid first round pick just a year ago. I think the Giants view him in the same vein as Matt Cain and Madison Bumgarner. They like well built pitchers from the south with good control and velocity.

He's just starting out as a pro, and to give him up for a mediocre SP like Bud Norris just because he hasnt shot through the farm system would be terribly short-sighted. Bud Norris is not that great. He'd stick in the rotation just fine, and be a good replacement for Vogelsong, Zito, or Lincecum in the coming years, but trading Stratton for him would be a huge mistake. I think the Astros would be over the moon if Sabean offered Stratton, and we'd get made fun of all around baseball for once again giving up a big potential SP so easily.

I wouldn't trade Stratton for Norris straight up either, but I'm not sure Stratton is viewed as a Cain/MadBum-type just yet. I'm sure the Giants (and us fans) hope he turns out like either of them (or even something close), but IMO it's too early to tell either way. What Stratton has going for him more than anything is perception....there's at least the perception that Stratton could be a quality arm in the majors, so given that, he could easily fetch something of better quality than Norris. I will grant you that.

Btw, Norris is better than mediocre. He's on a horrible team, but has a better ERA than CC Sabathia, Justin Verlander, Matt Moore and Jarrod Parker and has pitched more innings than any of those guys but CC. Plus he's averaged nearly 30 starts a year since 2010 so you know he's going to take the ball every 5th day.

What I like most about Norris though is that he's only given up 7 HRs this year, which is a crazy low number if you think about the park he has to pitch half his games in. By comparison, Cainer has given up 16, Vogey 11 and Timmy/MadBum have both given up 9.

The 2013 numbers show that Norris is actually an above average pitcher, and that's on a bad team in a HR-hitting park.

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
I wouldn't trade Stratton for Norris straight up either, but I'm not sure Stratton is viewed as a Cain/MadBum-type just yet. I'm sure the Giants (and us fans) hope he turns out like either of them (or even something close), but IMO it's too early to tell either way. What Stratton has going for him more than anything is perception....there's at least the perception that Stratton could be a quality arm in the majors, so given that, he could easily fetch something of better quality than Norris. I will grant you that.

Btw, Norris is better than mediocre. He's on a horrible team, but has a better ERA than CC Sabathia, Justin Verlander, Matt Moore and Jarrod Parker and has pitched more innings than any of those guys but CC. Plus he's averaged nearly 30 starts a year since 2010 so you know he's going to take the ball every 5th day.

What I like most about Norris though is that he's only given up 7 HRs this year, which is a crazy low number if you think about the park he has to pitch half his games in. By comparison, Cainer has given up 16, Vogey 11 and Timmy/MadBum have both given up 9.

The 2013 numbers show that Norris is actually an above average pitcher, and that's on a bad team in a HR-hitting park.

I agree that Norris is better than mediocre and would be a nice fit for the Giants at the back end of their rotation. With Zito, Lincecum, and Vogelsong all in Limbo for next year and probably 2 of them gone, it really makes sense to go get Norris. I think the problem is that Houston is going to shop him big time and get more than he might be worth.

Originally posted by Niners99:
To think the Mets wanted Gary Brown first...

The Giants should just not put any stock into a hitting prospect unless they are on the Posey level of "cant miss". Their track record of developing hitters is so bad its mind boggling. They put way too much faith in Brown for the level he was playing in at the time. Now he probably would barely get us Bud Norris, if that.

At some point we need to go outside the organization and hire someone with a track record of developing good hitters to be an assistant GM or assistant scouting director. We obviously have nobody in the building who knows how to scout hitting. Even if they werent directly in charge of their former team, just someone who comes from an organization that knows what to look for, who was involved in the process directly, and saw fruitful results.

We put way too much emphasis on an aggressive hitting approach in our system. We look for guys who swing early and often, and we teach our minor leaguers to do so as well. While its not totally a bad thing, I think its too extreme. The Giants seem to shun hitters who are patient. I can easily see why we liked Hunter Pence. Hes our type of guy. He swings early and often. I just want to stress getting on base more. Our style of development tends to produce alot of free swinging busts.

To be fair, the Giants are always in the bottom 5 for team strikeouts, but the lack of ability to make the starter work for his outs is KILLING us. Especially in an era when pitch count is such a factor. Bullpens are generally bad, get into them early! Make the pitcher sweat to get his outs. We have too many guys swinging at the first pitch and making easy outs. Its one thing if the opposing pitcher has it going, there isnt much you can do. But we bail pitchers out too often imo. Id like to see a more balanced approach starting in the farm system.

Ken Rosenthal reporting on the trade potential a couple of years ago... why could he not have been right????

"Beltran is not going to the Rangers, tweets Rosenthal. The Giants are his presumed frontrunner. He says the Mets had asked about Giants prospects Zack Wheeler and Gary Brown. They won't get Wheeler, but Rosenthal says "we'll see" on Brown."

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
I wouldn't trade Stratton for Norris straight up either, but I'm not sure Stratton is viewed as a Cain/MadBum-type just yet. I'm sure the Giants (and us fans) hope he turns out like either of them (or even something close), but IMO it's too early to tell either way. What Stratton has going for him more than anything is perception....there's at least the perception that Stratton could be a quality arm in the majors, so given that, he could easily fetch something of better quality than Norris. I will grant you that.

Btw, Norris is better than mediocre. He's on a horrible team, but has a better ERA than CC Sabathia, Justin Verlander, Matt Moore and Jarrod Parker and has pitched more innings than any of those guys but CC. Plus he's averaged nearly 30 starts a year since 2010 so you know he's going to take the ball every 5th day.

What I like most about Norris though is that he's only given up 7 HRs this year, which is a crazy low number if you think about the park he has to pitch half his games in. By comparison, Cainer has given up 16, Vogey 11 and Timmy/MadBum have both given up 9.

The 2013 numbers show that Norris is actually an above average pitcher, and that's on a bad team in a HR-hitting park.

I agree that Norris is better than mediocre and would be a nice fit for the Giants at the back end of their rotation. With Zito, Lincecum, and Vogelsong all in Limbo for next year and probably 2 of them gone, it really makes sense to go get Norris. I think the problem is that Houston is going to shop him big time and get more than he might be worth.

Agreed.

Originally posted by SF69ers:
Vogey on 95.7 The Game this morning: "Brian Wilson is coming back. He is going to pitch in the Major Leagues again."

well not for the giants

Originally posted by ads_2006:

Originally posted by SF69ers:
Vogey on 95.7 The Game this morning: "Brian Wilson is coming back. He is going to pitch in the Major Leagues again."

well not for the giants

he has a lot of pride, from what i can tell. didn't even show up for the ring ceremony.

Andrew Baggarly ‏@CSNBaggs 1m
The Giants have optioned Jean Machi and recalled George Kontos from Fresno.




fuuuuu.

Panda back tonight?!?!??!!

Originally posted by SF69ers:
Andrew Baggarly ‏@CSNBaggs 1m
The Giants have optioned Jean Machi and recalled George Kontos from Fresno.




fuuuuu.

f**k machi and Kontos was really good last year and in the playoffs, hopefully he's got his stuff back.

It's obvious we need to make a move, the thing is we may need to make more than one.

Originally posted by SF69ers:
Andrew Baggarly ‏@CSNBaggs 1m
The Giants have optioned Jean Machi and recalled George Kontos from Fresno.




fuuuuu.

One dog for another. I actually have more faith in Kontos as hard as that is to believe.

Originally posted by SF69ers:

Originally posted by ads_2006:

Originally posted by SF69ers:
Vogey on 95.7 The Game this morning: "Brian Wilson is coming back. He is going to pitch in the Major Leagues again."

well not for the giants

he has a lot of pride, from what i can tell. didn't even show up for the ring ceremony.

f**k his pride. Did he want the Giants to give him some big deal for this year even though he couldnt even pitch? I just wonder what he expected them to do after they just paid him a full years pay at several million dollars for doing nothing. I am so over Brian Wilson.