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2013 San Francisco Giants Thread

Originally posted by danimal:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by Garcia:
maybe its the Mets media trying to get back at us for how we fleeced them with Torres + Ramirez for Pagan? Thats a pretty bad trade for them

I dont think anyone cares about that. The real fleecing was trading us a rental guy who was old, on his way out the door, and didnt carry any draft compensation when he left, for an elite pitching prospect. The Mets even asked for Gary Brown instead, and we said no. With the way the Giants had been drafting high end SP talent, its a real possibility that we traded the next guy in the Cain, Lincecum, Bumgarner line. And for a low % chance at repeating.
ha ha, we won it in 10 and 12, there is pretty much no way you could call 11 a low % chance at winning the WS.

I have never seen a team win 2 of 3 and not be contenders in that middle year too. In any sport. Beltran gave us a good chance of winning it again. Wheeler is an unknown with no value in 11 and evidently 12 either

All the Beltran trade haters need to be men and make sure to come back and eat crow on this forum when Wheeler does not pan out. If Wheeler ever does pan out, I will eat crow. The whole debate should just be on pause now until something develops with Wheeler, everything is moot until we see how he turns out

p.s. I did think we had a good chance of resigning Beltran and so it was that much sweeter when we sent him home for picking the wrong horse.

LOL This coming from the guy who was counting the Giants out last year by May. The Giants did not have their best player in 2011 which is why making that trade for Beltran made even less sense. If Posey had been healthy and the Giants were at full strength the trade would have made more sense. Either way though, it was fricking stupid .
Originally posted by danimal:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Going for broke is right. That's what Sabean got out of it.. nothing. If Beltran had at LEAST come with draft picks then it might have been worth the shot. Might have I say. With absolutley ZERO compensation it was just downright stupid in a year where Posey and Sanchez were hurt and Beltran wasnt going to get the Giants a title anyway.

Anyway, there are maybe 3 guys that I know of anywhere on the face of this earth that supported this deal. DC, Sabean, and you. OK. Maybe a couple more but that vast majority of knowledgeable people though it was a farce and a rip off.

Real easy to say that now. What I find ironic is you are one of the most unrealistic optimistic Giant's fan I know.

Please explain to me how the Giants with Beltran on his 1st day had any less of a shot of winning the title vs the 2010 Giants?

You and the others can pat yourselves on the back all you want for predicting it was going to be a bad trade. I will have to settle for being angry each season knowing I was right about that being our last shot to win a title for many years to come.

Bottom line is 10 years from now the trade will go down as the ultimate wash. 2010-2011 will be the apex of Giants baseball and neither Beltran or Wheeler was going to change that

This post from May of last year still cracks me up.
Originally posted by danimal:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by Garcia:
maybe its the Mets media trying to get back at us for how we fleeced them with Torres + Ramirez for Pagan? Thats a pretty bad trade for them

I dont think anyone cares about that. The real fleecing was trading us a rental guy who was old, on his way out the door, and didnt carry any draft compensation when he left, for an elite pitching prospect. The Mets even asked for Gary Brown instead, and we said no. With the way the Giants had been drafting high end SP talent, its a real possibility that we traded the next guy in the Cain, Lincecum, Bumgarner line. And for a low % chance at repeating.
ha ha, we won it in 10 and 12, there is pretty much no way you could call 11 a low % chance at winning the WS.

I have never seen a team win 2 of 3 and not be contenders in that middle year too. In any sport. Beltran gave us a good chance of winning it again. Wheeler is an unknown with no value in 11 and evidently 12 either

All the Beltran trade haters need to be men and make sure to come back and eat crow on this forum when Wheeler does not pan out. If Wheeler ever does pan out, I will eat crow. The whole debate should just be on pause now until something develops with Wheeler, everything is moot until we see how he turns out

p.s. I did think we had a good chance of resigning Beltran and so it was that much sweeter when we sent him home for picking the wrong horse.

What does 2010 and 2012 have to do with our chances in 2011?

When we made the trade in 2011, Buster Posey had been out for a while. We were CLEARLY a team in need of much more than just 1 bat to become title contenders. We needed 2-3 good bats, which obviously wasnt possible. Sabean shouldve realized that and just chalked it up to "Cant win it every year". He actually stated "We owe it to the fans to try and repeat". He shouldve said "We owe it to the fans to not make any rash moves that will jeopardize the future."

Wheeler is NOT an unknown. Hes a premium asset. Hes a potential future ace. With that logic trading Cain, Lincecum, or Bumgarner back before they were called up wouldve been a good idea, because they were "unknown's".

Regardless of whether Wheeler pans out, it was a bad trade. We gave up a top tier pitching prospect for a rental that wasnt going to make us title contenders by himself.

The Mets were in a corner. Beltran had to be traded. He was going to be a f/a, he was playing well, he carried no compensational draft pick if he left, and the Mets season was down the toilet already. For the Giants to offer a top prospect for a guy like that...It was one of the worst baseball moves of the last decade.

Beltran did EXACTLY what everyone knew he would do. Be a great addition to the lineup, get hurt once or twice, and in the end make little difference in a season that was lost from the moment Buster Posey went down. Then he left, and we got no draft pick. If Beltran makes the HOF someday, all that trade will have gotten us is a "hey, remember when Carlos Beltran played for the Giants for a couple months? that was kinda cool."

To make it worse, the Mets even asked for Gary Brown instead, and the Giants said no. The chances that we were going to repeat after only adding Beltran were very, very slim if you had been following the team that year. The chances of Zack Wheeler becoming a big league ace someday are pretty darn good.

With the condition the rotation is going to be in about 1-2 years, its going to matter. Lincecum is going to leave, and the Vogelsong/Zito combo is getting old. Outside Crick, Blackburn, and Stratton about 3 years from now, we have nothing on the horizon at SP. Wheeler wouldve been a heck of a bridge from Bumgarner to Stratton.
Watching the game right now vs. the Angels. Vogey looking extremely good.
GO GIANTS
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Kept MLB Network on..watching this now
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
LOL This coming from the guy who was counting the Giants out last year by May. The Giants did not have their best player in 2011 which is why making that trade for Beltran made even less sense. If Posey had been healthy and the Giants were at full strength the trade would have made more sense. Either way though, it was fricking stupid .

We were in contention at the time we made the trade and if I recall correctly, we won 2 of the first 3 with Beltran @ Philly. We were 1st in the NL West and I think we may have been close to the top record in the NL as well. The team just went on a terrible slide after that.

I don't think it's fair to say we didn't have a shot in 2011 because even with Posey out, we were still winning...yes it didn't sustain but that was after the trade.

I was in favor of trying to get Beltran at the time, but even me, someone who doesn't pay attention to MiLB, had heard of how good Wheeler could be...so I didn't like giving him up.
Originally posted by Leathaface:
We were in contention at the time we made the trade and if I recall correctly, we won 2 of the first 3 with Beltran @ Philly. We were 1st in the NL West and I think we may have been close to the top record in the NL as well. The team just went on a terrible slide after that.

I don't think it's fair to say we didn't have a shot in 2011 because even with Posey out, we were still winning...yes it didn't sustain but that was after the trade.

I was in favor of trying to get Beltran at the time, but even me, someone who doesn't pay attention to MiLB, had heard of how good Wheeler could be...so I didn't like giving him up.

we were in first place with a 2 game lead
So...

Posey, Timmy, and Pablo...

Rookie of the year. MVP. 2 cy youngs. 2010 best pitcher in world series/playoffs. World Series MVP and like 15 at bats too much from rookie of year. Oh yeah, and 2 World Series rings each.

Yet some would trade easily for Harper/Zimmerman/straus.

Ha. I remember the s**t that was given.
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
So...

Posey, Timmy, and Pablo...

Rookie of the year. MVP. 2 cy youngs. 2010 best pitcher in world series/playoffs. World Series MVP and like 15 at bats too much from rookie of year. Oh yeah, and 2 World Series rings each.

Yet some would trade easily for Harper/Zimmerman/straus.

Ha. I remember the s**t that was given.

Matt Cain
Originally posted by Garcia:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
So...

Posey, Timmy, and Pablo...

Rookie of the year. MVP. 2 cy youngs. 2010 best pitcher in world series/playoffs. World Series MVP and like 15 at bats too much from rookie of year. Oh yeah, and 2 World Series rings each.

Yet some would trade easily for Harper/Zimmerman/straus.

Ha. I remember the s**t that was given.

Matt Cain

Lincecum won the Babe Ruth Award in 2010, which is the award for MVP of the entire postseason.
Any word on how Gary Brown is doing in Spring Training?
Originally posted by VaBeachNiner:
Any word on how Gary Brown is doing in Spring Training?

From the games I've seen he looks a little overmatched but he's only had 7 AB's so far.

I would be shocked to see him not start the season in Fresno.
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
So...

Posey, Timmy, and Pablo...

Rookie of the year. MVP. 2 cy youngs. 2010 best pitcher in world series/playoffs. World Series MVP and like 15 at bats too much from rookie of year. Oh yeah, and 2 World Series rings each.

Yet some would trade easily for Harper/Zimmerman/straus.

Ha. I remember the s**t that was given.

LOL. I guess that was directed at me. Glad we didnt make the deal then obviously but I would do it now for sure. I love Posey a LOT but Panda may eat himself out of the league in a few years and Lincecum is about done as a big time pitcher. Put it this way, Washington would laugh hysterically at the offer.
Originally posted by itlynstalyn:
Originally posted by VaBeachNiner:
Any word on how Gary Brown is doing in Spring Training?

From the games I've seen he looks a little overmatched but he's only had 7 AB's so far.

I would be shocked to see him not start the season in Fresno.

You really see Brown repeating AA? I can't see that at all.
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