Originally posted by danimal:
Originally posted by Niners99:
ha ha, we won it in 10 and 12, there is pretty much no way you could call 11 a low % chance at winning the WS.
Originally posted by Garcia:
maybe its the Mets media trying to get back at us for how we fleeced them with Torres + Ramirez for Pagan? Thats a pretty bad trade for them
I dont think anyone cares about that. The real fleecing was trading us a rental guy who was old, on his way out the door, and didnt carry any draft compensation when he left, for an elite pitching prospect. The Mets even asked for Gary Brown instead, and we said no. With the way the Giants had been drafting high end SP talent, its a real possibility that we traded the next guy in the Cain, Lincecum, Bumgarner line. And for a low % chance at repeating.
I have never seen a team win 2 of 3 and not be contenders in that middle year too. In any sport. Beltran gave us a good chance of winning it again. Wheeler is an unknown with no value in 11 and evidently 12 either
All the Beltran trade haters need to be men and make sure to come back and eat crow on this forum when Wheeler does not pan out. If Wheeler ever does pan out, I will eat crow. The whole debate should just be on pause now until something develops with Wheeler, everything is moot until we see how he turns out
p.s. I did think we had a good chance of resigning Beltran and so it was that much sweeter when we sent him home for picking the wrong horse.
What does 2010 and 2012 have to do with our chances in 2011?
When we made the trade in 2011, Buster Posey had been out for a while. We were CLEARLY a team in need of much more than just 1 bat to become title contenders. We needed 2-3 good bats, which obviously wasnt possible. Sabean shouldve realized that and just chalked it up to "Cant win it every year". He actually stated "We owe it to the fans to try and repeat". He shouldve said "We owe it to the fans to not make any rash moves that will jeopardize the future."
Wheeler is NOT an unknown. Hes a premium asset. Hes a potential future ace. With that logic trading Cain, Lincecum, or Bumgarner back before they were called up wouldve been a good idea, because they were "unknown's".
Regardless of whether Wheeler pans out, it was a bad trade. We gave up a top tier pitching prospect for a rental that wasnt going to make us title contenders by himself.
The Mets were in a corner. Beltran had to be traded. He was going to be a f/a, he was playing well, he carried no compensational draft pick if he left, and the Mets season was down the toilet already. For the Giants to offer a top prospect for a guy like that...It was one of the worst baseball moves of the last decade.
Beltran did EXACTLY what everyone knew he would do. Be a great addition to the lineup, get hurt once or twice, and in the end make little difference in a season that was lost from the moment Buster Posey went down. Then he left, and we got no draft pick. If Beltran makes the HOF someday, all that trade will have gotten us is a "hey, remember when Carlos Beltran played for the Giants for a couple months? that was kinda cool."
To make it worse, the Mets even asked for Gary Brown instead, and the Giants said no. The chances that we were going to repeat after only adding Beltran were very, very slim if you had been following the team that year. The chances of Zack Wheeler becoming a big league ace someday are pretty darn good.
With the condition the rotation is going to be in about 1-2 years, its going to matter. Lincecum is going to leave, and the Vogelsong/Zito combo is getting old. Outside Crick, Blackburn, and Stratton about 3 years from now, we have nothing on the horizon at SP. Wheeler wouldve been a heck of a bridge from Bumgarner to Stratton.