There are 85 users in the forums

Remember
Not a member? Register Now!

2013 San Francisco Giants Thread

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Not crazy about the extra years but at least the Giants locked up Affeldt, Scutaro, and Pagan for about the same cost as what the Braves paid for a BJ.

I see what you did there
  • teeohh
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 11,874
RT @CSNBaggs #SFGiants want RH OF bat and had 2-year deal set up with Ryan Ludwick before Scutaro tapped them out. Now even Hairston too pricy for them.
Now apparently even Ryan Ludwick is too expensive after the Scuatro deal.

I would have gone about things differently, but I guess we'll just have to wait and see what the season brings.
Originally posted by Rubberneck36:
3/20 mil. I think the third year isn't good, but its market price I'm sure. The thing about SCUTARO is he doesn't miss when swinging. Perfect two hitter. He will always move runners around and his defense is solid. So I'm sure he will have a very good year this year. I am happy about getting our lead off and two hole hitter back again.

Adding Swisher would be a perfect cap to the offseason, not sure he wants to give a discount that accompanies him really wanting to play in SF. I hope so.

Agreed. Although both Pagan and Scutaro got an extra year and $2 mil per year too much. But whatever, I'm glad they're back with SF. Both did play crucial roles to get us another WS title, especially Scutaro.
Originally posted by toeshawn:
RT @CSNBaggs #SFGiants want RH OF bat and had 2-year deal set up with Ryan Ludwick before Scutaro tapped them out. Now even Hairston too pricy for them.

Time to see what the young guys can do in a platoon with Blanco....Kieschnick, Peggs, Brown or even Pill as a LF/1B rotational guy. We might have to tough it out in LF and use that position as an open audition for prospects until the trade deadline.

Pagan - CF
Scutaro - 2nd
Pablo - 3rd
Posey - C
Pence - RF
Belt - 1st
Blanco/RK/FP/GB/BP - LF
Crawford - SS
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
Ehh, I hear what you are saying Ghost, but I dont necessarily agree. I would love Scutaro to come back as well. But 3 years is OD in my opinion. You and I know damn well he wont be an $8M player when he is 40.

Hes not an 8 mil player NOW. He was an old, mediocre MIF even at Coors before he came over. He had a historic 2nd half for us, but it wont continue. Giving a 3 year deal to a guy who will be 38 next season is idiotic. This is why i rag on Sabean all the time. He doesnt make smart decisions with money.

Yet, he's got 2 WS titles compared to however many you have as a GM. Just sayin....

ooohhh BURN!

Since hes been the GM, Sabean has made a vast array of terrible signings, and a few of the worst trades of the last decade. I shouldnt have to defend my reasons for critisizing him. Yes, we have won 2 WS in the 17 years hes been on the job. Yes, he gets credit for putting the pieces in place. No, the team/coaches winning the rings doesnt make him a smart, or above average GM. He makes alot of bad baseball moves regardless of outcome.

I wasn't criticizing you. Was just merely stating a fact. You choose to place the blame squarely on Sabean's shoulders for "pieces" that don't pan out, but you're unwilling to give him credit for those that have and led to our team winning 2 out of the last 3 world titles. In those instances, you credit the team and the coaches.

Signings that don't work out, Sabes fault (fair enough). Signings that do pan out, the coaches (that he hired) and the team (that he put together) get the real credit. If you see that as sound logic, so be it.

Lol Ghost, you can't argue with the Sabean haters here. It will always be dumb luck if he is successful but 100% his fault if things go wrong. They won't see the logic, and nothing that you or I say will make a difference.

Hell, john says him or I could have done what Sabean did this offseason so I guess I best be giving the Giants a call to offer my services!
Ludwick would have been a nice fit in SF.
Originally posted by dcsham:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
Ehh, I hear what you are saying Ghost, but I dont necessarily agree. I would love Scutaro to come back as well. But 3 years is OD in my opinion. You and I know damn well he wont be an $8M player when he is 40.

Hes not an 8 mil player NOW. He was an old, mediocre MIF even at Coors before he came over. He had a historic 2nd half for us, but it wont continue. Giving a 3 year deal to a guy who will be 38 next season is idiotic. This is why i rag on Sabean all the time. He doesnt make smart decisions with money.

Yet, he's got 2 WS titles compared to however many you have as a GM. Just sayin....

ooohhh BURN!

Since hes been the GM, Sabean has made a vast array of terrible signings, and a few of the worst trades of the last decade. I shouldnt have to defend my reasons for critisizing him. Yes, we have won 2 WS in the 17 years hes been on the job. Yes, he gets credit for putting the pieces in place. No, the team/coaches winning the rings doesnt make him a smart, or above average GM. He makes alot of bad baseball moves regardless of outcome.

I wasn't criticizing you. Was just merely stating a fact. You choose to place the blame squarely on Sabean's shoulders for "pieces" that don't pan out, but you're unwilling to give him credit for those that have and led to our team winning 2 out of the last 3 world titles. In those instances, you credit the team and the coaches.

Signings that don't work out, Sabes fault (fair enough). Signings that do pan out, the coaches (that he hired) and the team (that he put together) get the real credit. If you see that as sound logic, so be it.

Lol Ghost, you can't argue with the Sabean haters here. It will always be dumb luck if he is successful but 100% his fault if things go wrong. They won't see the logic, and nothing that you or I say will make a difference.

Hell, john says him or I could have done what Sabean did this offseason so I guess I best be giving the Giants a call to offer my services!

This article about sums it up. http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/majors/awards/executive-of-the-year/2012/2614367.html

Key snippets from the article:


The Giants, and Brian Sabean, the longest-tenured general manager in the game, have long been an easy mark for what acronym-inclined bloggers perceived as old-school methods. Now that the Giants are checking to see if their ring sizes have changed in 24 months, analysts, both recreational and professional, are trying to figure out how the heck the franchise they love to lampoon has pulled off the nearest thing to a dynasty by a National League club since the Big Red Machine.

"Hopefully we'll be able to bear down and keep our heads down like we always do," Sabean said. "I don't think we're going to change our mantra of pitching and defense. Pitching is going to be our celebrity. It's not the all-eggs-in-one-basket with one player approach. This is what works. It's what is conducive to our ballpark and our division."
[ Edited by GhostofFredDean74 on Dec 5, 2012 at 9:23 AM ]
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by toeshawn:
RT @CSNBaggs #SFGiants want RH OF bat and had 2-year deal set up with Ryan Ludwick before Scutaro tapped them out. Now even Hairston too pricy for them.

Time to see what the young guys can do in a platoon with Blanco....Kieschnick, Peggs, Brown or even Pill as a LF/1B rotational guy. We might have to tough it out in LF and use that position as an open audition for prospects until the trade deadline.

Pagan - CF
Scutaro - 2nd
Pablo - 3rd
Posey - C
Pence - RF
Belt - 1st
Blanco/RK/FP/GB/BP - LF
Crawford - SS

Hopefully it doesnt come down to that because I dont think any of them are close to being ready.
Originally posted by dcsham:
Lol Ghost, you can't argue with the Sabean haters here. It will always be dumb luck if he is successful but 100% his fault if things go wrong. They won't see the logic, and nothing that you or I say will make a difference.

Hell, john says him or I could have done what Sabean did this offseason so I guess I best be giving the Giants a call to offer my services!

LOL. I dont know how many times I have to say that I give Sabean all the credit in the world for trades he made to get the Giants over the hump. However, there is no debating his poor record when it comes to free agency. It has been bad no matter how you look at it. I dont think I need to give the laundry list again for you.

All he did this off season ( in which you called his job great) was to resign his 3 players at market or above market rate. These were guys who really wanted to stay in SF but certainly did not give the team hometown discounts to stay. Affeldt, Scutaro, and Pagan all got more years than expected and more money as well. Sabean didnt have much choice due to the fact that the Giants system has zero players ready to come up and produce.

As far as being able to simply give out the highest years and money for your own players and keep them... well yes, even you could have done that I think.
7/8 of our positions are lock-down guaranteed (barring injury) in December. I like that.

I am really hoping for continued growth and solid seasons for Belt and Crawford. I am expecting Scutaro, and maybe even Pagan to come back to earth from where they finished last year. I am hoping for the best with Panda, but who knows...
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by dcsham:
Lol Ghost, you can't argue with the Sabean haters here. It will always be dumb luck if he is successful but 100% his fault if things go wrong. They won't see the logic, and nothing that you or I say will make a difference.

Hell, john says him or I could have done what Sabean did this offseason so I guess I best be giving the Giants a call to offer my services!

LOL. I dont know how many times I have to say that I give Sabean all the credit in the world for trades he made to get the Giants over the hump. However, there is no debating his poor record when it comes to free agency. It has been bad no matter how you look at it. I dont think I need to give the laundry list again for you.

All he did this off season ( in which you called his job great) was to resign his 3 players at market or above market rate. These were guys who really wanted to stay in SF but certainly did not give the team hometown discounts to stay. Affeldt, Scutaro, and Pagan all got more years than expected and more money as well. Sabean didnt have much choice due to the fact that the Giants system has zero players ready to come up and produce.

As far as being able to simply give out the highest years and money for your own players and keep them... well yes, even you could have done that I think.

It's my understanding that Sabes isn't the chief negotiator; that would be Bobby Evans' job. Btw, most GMs in just about every major sport are working from a place of weakness. If the try and play hardball on negotiations, they'll be considered an unattractive destination for the top talent. If the player is any good at all, agents will just say, "screw those guys, I'll take my client somewhere else or not even bother with them in the first place." In that sense, I can see what you're saying about anyone being able to do that aspect of the job. It's probably true to a certain extent, but it would apply to just about every other front office as well, other than Oakland's.

Talented agents/players have all the leverage.
[ Edited by GhostofFredDean74 on Dec 5, 2012 at 10:51 AM ]
After all this Sabean talk, I thought I would bump what I wrote about a month ago:

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
My opinion of Brian Sabean prior to 2010: He has made questionable move after questionable move. He made more terrible trades than good ones. He signed more bad players to contracts that exceeded their value than good players to contracts that were less than their value. He wasted Barry Bonds' career by not putting enough pieces around him. He wasted 2 years of elite pitching by not putting enough good hitters around it. He doesnt have the slightest clue how to draft hitting prospects, which means he is an average talent evaluator when coupled with his ability to draft pitching prospects. He was as big of a problem as anything else with this team.

My opinion of Brian Sabean now: Everything I wrote above is completely moot after winning 2 World Series Championships in the last 3 years. While I may question some of his moves going forward, he has now earned the benefit of the doubt for the foreseeable future.
The only thing that causes me to wake up at night screaming and breaking out in a cold sweat is a recurring nightmare of the stadium announcer saying,"Now batting for the Giants, Gregor Blanco, the left fielder." We need to rectify the situation. Excellent defensively, somewhat lacking at the plate.
Since there's a lot of pro-Sabean/anti-Sabean talk going on right now I have a proposal: everyone take the $78 million Sabes has spent so far this off-season and give us your take on how you would have spent in the FA period.

This is purely for our own entertainment. Will be interesting to go back and see during the season how the players each person wanted or didn't want perform. Anyone want to participate?
Get the Latest News at Giants365.com