2013 San Francisco Giants Thread

Originally posted by Garcia:
Pagan for 4 Years 40 mill
or
Victorino for 3 years 39 mil

whats better?

Neither are great. Boston is just stupid.

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Am I the only one thinking, "so what if we give Pagan a 4 year deal or Scoots a 3 year deal?" It's not my money...if people are worried about budgets, they shouldn't be. This franchise is flush with cash and obviously willing to shell out big bucks or they wouldn't be making these deals. I know this, if the Zito, Rowand and FreSanchez deals didn't hinder us from winning 2 titles in 3 years, I'm confident that signing Pagan and Scutaro won't either.

Plus, Scutaro's value goes beyond on-field performance. I don't know how he did it, but he managed to become the heart and soul of this team almost over night. That quality alone is worth another year to sweeten the deal, IMO.

I dont make posts thinking about whether its my money. I make them thinking about whether I think its a smart baseball move. Scutaro for 3 years isnt in my opinion.

What wouldn't be smart about it, if not for the money/investment piece? Will Scutaro be the same player in 2015 than he was in 2012, likely not at all. But if it takes giving him that third year of a contract to get another 1-2 solid years out of him (and/or 1 more title), I think it's a great business move. I acknowledge the risk, absolutely, but I don't see it as a risk that if it goes wrong, would undermine my franchise for years to come.

Btw, I'm in the talent acquisition business, and everyone that I work with agrees (especially the people putting up the money), if you have to pay a little extra for the talent YOU WANT, you do it. Because without the right talent, you can't achieve your goals...and that costs WAY more than giving someone extra.

So being "smart" about what/who you pay is all a matter of perspective.

Ghost, I have been a very successful headhunter for the past 13 years myself and I have a pretty strong idea when it comes to negotiation. I also know that it cant JUST be about the money.

Scutaro has never had a place where he was so appreciated and had this success. He is loved in SF. It should not JUST be about the money. I tell candidates that all the time. GO where you will be happy. I dont think Scutaro would leave the Giants if he had a fair 2 year deal on the table with an option year. Maybe I'm wrong but that would be as far as I would go with him. We arent talking Robinson Cano here. We are talking about a guy who has had a decent career and got hot for a couple of months. Do I want Scutaro to stay? Sure. DO I think he should get 3 years? Hell no. Not at his age and not at the level he has produced for the majority of his career.

You have a fair point and agree that the law of averages/age aren't on his side. I think of both Pagan and Scutaro when I say this...they were really only worth 3 and 2 year deals respectively, but they both got an extra year for what they did in 2012. Call it, a signing bonus if you will. It's for services already rendered and not just for what they will do in the future. Both these guys were absolutely crucial to winning that second title, and will almost assuredly play key roles next year and in 2014 as go for our 3rd/4th titles.

That extra year for both? Just a sweetener, and from a business standpoint, that creates goodwill in the clubhouse knowing that if you contribute to winning it all, you'll get paid by this front office (within the parameters of their annual budget, of course). I don't know about you, but that's a STRONG incentive to give my heart and soul.

So from a pure business standpoint (black and white, profit and loss), I completely get what you're saying. And I've been with companies who believe what you're saying to their core....and as successful as they are, they garner little or no loyalty from the staff. They do what they have to stay employed, but little more. I've also been (and currently am with) a company that is generous to a fault, and that spirit permeates the entire organization. You want to run through brick walls for your employer when they go above and beyond to take care of you and your family.

So I get it, but there's a flip-side.

Btw....

Andrew Baggarly ✔@CSNBaggs Must've gotten wires crossed on Scutaro. I am hearing definitively now that 2 years plus vesting option is what the #SFGiants last offered.

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:

Ehh, I hear what you are saying Ghost, but I dont necessarily agree. I would love Scutaro to come back as well. But 3 years is OD in my opinion. You and I know damn well he wont be an $8M player when he is 40.

Hes not an 8 mil player NOW. He was an old, mediocre MIF even at Coors before he came over. He had a historic 2nd half for us, but it wont continue. Giving a 3 year deal to a guy who will be 38 next season is idiotic. This is why i rag on Sabean all the time. He doesnt make smart decisions with money.

3 years/24 mil is way too much for Scutaro.

Aubrey Huff all over again.

imo.

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
Ehh, I hear what you are saying Ghost, but I dont necessarily agree. I would love Scutaro to come back as well. But 3 years is OD in my opinion. You and I know damn well he wont be an $8M player when he is 40.

Hes not an 8 mil player NOW. He was an old, mediocre MIF even at Coors before he came over. He had a historic 2nd half for us, but it wont continue. Giving a 3 year deal to a guy who will be 38 next season is idiotic. This is why i rag on Sabean all the time. He doesnt make smart decisions with money.

Yet, he's got 2 WS titles compared to however many you have as a GM. Just sayin....

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
Ehh, I hear what you are saying Ghost, but I dont necessarily agree. I would love Scutaro to come back as well. But 3 years is OD in my opinion. You and I know damn well he wont be an $8M player when he is 40.

Hes not an 8 mil player NOW. He was an old, mediocre MIF even at Coors before he came over. He had a historic 2nd half for us, but it wont continue. Giving a 3 year deal to a guy who will be 38 next season is idiotic. This is why i rag on Sabean all the time. He doesnt make smart decisions with money.

On a rare occasion I agree with 99. LOL. Here is the deal. Without those 3 months Scutaro would be damn lucky to have gotten a 1 year deal for 4M-5M. He got traded for Charlie Fricking Culberson. NO one wanted the guy or at least willing to give up anything decent to get him. Now, he is suddenly worth a 24 million dollar deal? I just dont get it.

I just hope this result is better than Huff's deal when Sabean rewarded him for a title. Colleti saved Sabean from the same mistake with Uribe as well.

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
Ehh, I hear what you are saying Ghost, but I dont necessarily agree. I would love Scutaro to come back as well. But 3 years is OD in my opinion. You and I know damn well he wont be an $8M player when he is 40.

Hes not an 8 mil player NOW. He was an old, mediocre MIF even at Coors before he came over. He had a historic 2nd half for us, but it wont continue. Giving a 3 year deal to a guy who will be 38 next season is idiotic. This is why i rag on Sabean all the time. He doesnt make smart decisions with money.

Yet, he's got 2 WS titles compared to however many you have as a GM. Just sayin....

Ghost. Come on man. You know when it comes to money and free agents that Sabean has been a huge bust. Yes, he has won 2 titles and we all give him credit for that. Some good trades no doubt. But free agency and contracts? FAIL.

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
Ehh, I hear what you are saying Ghost, but I dont necessarily agree. I would love Scutaro to come back as well. But 3 years is OD in my opinion. You and I know damn well he wont be an $8M player when he is 40.

Hes not an 8 mil player NOW. He was an old, mediocre MIF even at Coors before he came over. He had a historic 2nd half for us, but it wont continue. Giving a 3 year deal to a guy who will be 38 next season is idiotic. This is why i rag on Sabean all the time. He doesnt make smart decisions with money.

Yet, he's got 2 WS titles compared to however many you have as a GM. Just sayin....

Ghost. Come on man. You know when it comes to money and free agents that Sabean has been a huge bust. Yes, he has won 2 titles and we all give him credit for that. Some good trades no doubt. But free agency and contracts? FAIL.

If your overall investments pay off in winning the ultimate prize, how is that a fail dude? Individually, you may not hit on every free agent investment, I agree. But your task is to put together a TEAM by any means necessary that hoists the trophy. He's done that.

It's like saying you don't like how General so-and-so manages the military procurement process....but oh yah, he's won 2 wars. Who, but the pickiest of the picky, really cares that in one area, a guy hasn't done well if he fairly consistently wins the ultimate prize? I don't get it.

So I guess I'm saying that I can't disagree that one point, but at the end of the day, who really cares given the outcomes in 2010 and 2012?

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Btw....

Andrew Baggarly ✔@CSNBaggs Must've gotten wires crossed on Scutaro. I am hearing definitively now that 2 years plus vesting option is what the #SFGiants last offered.

better

Originally posted by Rubberneck36:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Btw....

Andrew Baggarly ✔@CSNBaggs Must've gotten wires crossed on Scutaro. I am hearing definitively now that 2 years plus vesting option is what the #SFGiants last offered.

better

That and Swisher for left on a discount since he wants to play here and I would call it a successful FA period.

Also, lock Posey up already for the love of God.

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
Ehh, I hear what you are saying Ghost, but I dont necessarily agree. I would love Scutaro to come back as well. But 3 years is OD in my opinion. You and I know damn well he wont be an $8M player when he is 40.

Hes not an 8 mil player NOW. He was an old, mediocre MIF even at Coors before he came over. He had a historic 2nd half for us, but it wont continue. Giving a 3 year deal to a guy who will be 38 next season is idiotic. This is why i rag on Sabean all the time. He doesnt make smart decisions with money.

Yet, he's got 2 WS titles compared to however many you have as a GM. Just sayin....

Ghost. Come on man. You know when it comes to money and free agents that Sabean has been a huge bust. Yes, he has won 2 titles and we all give him credit for that. Some good trades no doubt. But free agency and contracts? FAIL.

If your overall investments pay off in winning the ultimate prize, how is that a fail dude? Individually, you may not hit on every free agent investment, I agree. But your task is to put together a TEAM by any means necessary that hoists the trophy. He's done that.

It's like saying you don't like how General so-and-so manages the military procurement process....but oh yah, he's won 2 wars. Who, but the pickiest of the picky, really cares that in one area, a guy hasn't done well if he fairly consistently wins the ultimate prize? I don't get it.

I am not debating on his success over the past 3 years. I am simply telling you that he has been awful for almost 20 years when it comes to free agency and paying the right amount of money to the right players. Certainly the Giants had most every thing go there way to win last year and I give him credit for trading for Pagan and Scutaro to make that happen. Kudos to Brian. I will ALWAYS give him credit for that.

We can go back and forth on the good and bad things about Brian Sabean. I would have fired him before 2010 but that has changed because of some good trades he has made. He has turned it around. It doesnt mean I think he is smart at all when it comes to free agency though.

Originally posted by Rubberneck36:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Btw....

Andrew Baggarly ✔@CSNBaggs Must've gotten wires crossed on Scutaro. I am hearing definitively now that 2 years plus vesting option is what the #SFGiants last offered.

better

2 years plus option is a MUCH smarter deal. Hopefully that is the case.

Originally posted by itlynstalyn:
I'd rather let Arias start at 2B full-time then pay Scutaro that much money.

Kelly Johnson and Jeff Keppinger should be looked at as alternatives right now, I would remove that deal for Scutaro off the table. He's going to be ridiculously unproductive in the latter years of that contract.

this, Keppinger until Panik is ready in 2014

From Olney: Source involved in talks thinks it's 50-50 Scutaro goes back to SF. Cardinals thought to be most likely alternative to SF. Decision close.

PLEASE GO TO SF