There are 101 users in the forums

Remember
Not a member? Register Now!

Penn St. football sexual abuse scandal

Originally posted by MoistButtCheeks:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by SportsFan:
Originally posted by aman49:
Originally posted by Jcool:
Originally posted by Joecool:
I just don't see Paterno as an accomplice to anything. He is an innocent man who forwarded "hearsay." Personally, the actual witness should have made sure some action was taken upon his voice.

Please avoid personal attacks

Exactly. Reading the PDF the AD and president seem to state that the initial report was of inappropriate contact. It is hard to say what exactly was told to Paterno.

Holy crap, man...that in and of itself isn't enough to morally implicate Paterno?!?!?

55 year old man + 10 year old boy + shower + "inappropriate contact" in YOUR facilities

At the VERY least that's what Paterno knew. If that was you...you wouldn't follow up to see what the hell the AD was gonna do with that? Would you just let it be? Would you let that guy be around your facilities? I coach HS basketball, and if there was a report of someone around the program doing this to a kid, not only am I reporting this to my AD, but that guy would ABSOLUTELY NOT be allowed around my facilities until he was COMPLETELY exonerated. And you bet your ass that I'm following up to ensure that my AD went to the proper authorities.

Paterno's actions absolve him in a legal sense, but not a moral one. This smacks of a buddy covering up for a buddy, and a man who was preoccupied with his own reputation instead of doing the right thing. And quite frankly, I find it curious that a 2 year grand jury investigation of 15+ years of allegations finally come to light exactly one week after Paterno breaks the D-1 wins record.

same dude who outright displayed his hatred for Mayweather by calling him a n****r....

http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/other-sports/155129-mayweather-ortiz-september-17th/page18/

What does this have to do with this story?
Originally posted by SportsFan:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by SportsFan:
Originally posted by aman49:
Originally posted by Jcool:
Originally posted by Joecool:
I just don't see Paterno as an accomplice to anything. He is an innocent man who forwarded "hearsay." Personally, the actual witness should have made sure some action was taken upon his voice.

Please avoid personal attacks

Exactly. Reading the PDF the AD and president seem to state that the initial report was of inappropriate contact. It is hard to say what exactly was told to Paterno.

Holy crap, man...that in and of itself isn't enough to morally implicate Paterno?!?!?

55 year old man + 10 year old boy + shower + "inappropriate contact" in YOUR facilities

At the VERY least that's what Paterno knew. If that was you...you wouldn't follow up to see what the hell the AD was gonna do with that? Would you just let it be? Would you let that guy be around your facilities? I coach HS basketball, and if there was a report of someone around the program doing this to a kid, not only am I reporting this to my AD, but that guy would ABSOLUTELY NOT be allowed around my facilities until he was COMPLETELY exonerated. And you bet your ass that I'm following up to ensure that my AD went to the proper authorities.

Paterno's actions absolve him in a legal sense, but not a moral one. This smacks of a buddy covering up for a buddy, and a man who was preoccupied with his own reputation instead of doing the right thing. And quite frankly, I find it curious that a 2 year grand jury investigation of 15+ years of allegations finally come to light exactly one week after Paterno breaks the D-1 wins record.

And if the AD told you the University Police were notified and are handling it, then what. And at the same time, it is not just about a report of "someone", it is about someone you have known for a VERY long time.

It is easier said than done but if someone tells you they went to the police, which I assume, is the proper authority, wouldn't you believe that the police are now handling the situation since they are the proper authority.

IMO, Shultz/Curly who down played the situation to the police and the police that did not investigate are the real culprits here.

As much as we want to pretend we know how much we think Paterno knew or knows, we really don't.

Exactly. The problem is that with kids involved, and rightfully so, people just let their emotions get the best of them without sitting back and letting all the evidence come out first. I do agree that Joe, to show compassion for the victims, should retire a few games early.

Yeah, if you want to point the finger at people in this situation that Joe Pa would be doing, you BETTER be 100% sure there is something going on. It's similar to a woman saying someone raped her in spite because it is a heavy hand even if it is NOT true.

I agree with everyone on this board about the sickening and disturbing person this guy is (Sandusky). He IS a monster. But the fact is Joe Pa, right now, is being seen in a tangent fashion and that is FAR from the truth and what talking heads are portraying from their opinions as if JoePa "allowed" this.

Fact is, the police were notified but the people who notified the police are nearly as bad as Sandusky to me. Shcultz and Curly or whatever his name is are THE people responsible for this.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by SportsFan:
Originally posted by aman49:
Originally posted by Jcool:
Originally posted by Joecool:
I just don't see Paterno as an accomplice to anything. He is an innocent man who forwarded "hearsay." Personally, the actual witness should have made sure some action was taken upon his voice.

Please avoid personal attacks

Exactly. Reading the PDF the AD and president seem to state that the initial report was of inappropriate contact. It is hard to say what exactly was told to Paterno.

Holy crap, man...that in and of itself isn't enough to morally implicate Paterno?!?!?

55 year old man + 10 year old boy + shower + "inappropriate contact" in YOUR facilities

At the VERY least that's what Paterno knew. If that was you...you wouldn't follow up to see what the hell the AD was gonna do with that? Would you just let it be? Would you let that guy be around your facilities? I coach HS basketball, and if there was a report of someone around the program doing this to a kid, not only am I reporting this to my AD, but that guy would ABSOLUTELY NOT be allowed around my facilities until he was COMPLETELY exonerated. And you bet your ass that I'm following up to ensure that my AD went to the proper authorities.

Paterno's actions absolve him in a legal sense, but not a moral one. This smacks of a buddy covering up for a buddy, and a man who was preoccupied with his own reputation instead of doing the right thing. And quite frankly, I find it curious that a 2 year grand jury investigation of 15+ years of allegations finally come to light exactly one week after Paterno breaks the D-1 wins record.

And if the AD told you the University Police were notified and are handling it, then what. And at the same time, it is not just about a report of "someone", it is about someone you have known for a VERY long time.

It is easier said than done but if someone tells you they went to the police, which I assume, is the proper authority, wouldn't you believe that the police are now handling the situation since they are the proper authority.

IMO, Shultz/Curly who down played the situation to the police and the police that did not investigate are the real culprits here.

As much as we want to pretend we know how much we think Paterno knew or knows, we really don't.

JoeCool...so let me get this straight. in 1998 sandusky is investigated by the police for child molestation and no charges are brought up. the DA that is investigating soon after mysteriously disappears and also goes missing is his work laptop. he is NEVER heard from again. not a trace. there is no way in the world paterno does not know about this investigation. there just can't be, if you think he didnt know you are deluding yourself. then in 2002 paterno is told about an incident that happneed on school property. he reports up the chain of command. hears that it is being handled. oddly never hears about any follow up again. knowing that hey this is the SECOND time something has come up related to this. MAYBE something is FISHY. then paterno hears (probably agreed to, but that is a different point) that sandusky can't bring boys on campus anymore. that's it. at this point he doesn't question why????? he just says to himself oh cool. then goes about his business until 2004 when he hooks up the grad assistant w a permanent gig. then both of these incidents that we know about paterno being exposed to, he just forgets for oh say pretty much 10 years. then suddenly when the grand jury investigation is going on in 2009, he testifies to what he knew. i'm sure at that point he heard the rumors, if he hadn't for the 40 years before. and should have told sandusky to stay away from the campus for ever. but NO. sandusky was wokring out at the facilities last week. if you really believe that he knew nothing about what was goin on and was not 100% complicit, involved, leading, and facilitating the cover up then i really don't konw what to say to you. from all that we know about paterno at penn state he was the man with the most power. this is a case of colelnel jessup ordering the code red so to speak. no way a man that powerful doesnt know, control, bless everything that is going on on his turf. that is the reality.
Now this is getting interesting...

Murder? A coverup? Off the DA before he can prosecute?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/09/sports/ncaafootball/questions-on-sandusky-wrapped-in-2005-gricar-mystery.html
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Holy crap, man...that in and of itself isn't enough to morally implicate Paterno?!?!?

55 year old man + 10 year old boy + shower + "inappropriate contact" in YOUR facilities

At the VERY least that's what Paterno knew. If that was you...you wouldn't follow up to see what the hell the AD was gonna do with that? Would you just let it be? Would you let that guy be around your facilities? I coach HS basketball, and if there was a report of someone around the program doing this to a kid, not only am I reporting this to my AD, but that guy would ABSOLUTELY NOT be allowed around my facilities until he was COMPLETELY exonerated. And you bet your ass that I'm following up to ensure that my AD went to the proper authorities.

Paterno's actions absolve him in a legal sense, but not a moral one. This smacks of a buddy covering up for a buddy, and a man who was preoccupied with his own reputation instead of doing the right thing. And quite frankly, I find it curious that a 2 year grand jury investigation of 15+ years of allegations finally come to light exactly one week after Paterno breaks the D-1 wins record.

I am over trying to debate this with people so all I will say is I agree with all of this. I will also add that Paterno knew this man was still on campus, still had an office on campus and still was on the faculty list as recently as a couple of weeks ago, and if he says he wasn't aware of this then he's lying. Not to mention there were shady allegations against Sandusky after he was initially told to retire (98' believe). Mind you this was well before the 2002 shower incident.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Yeah, if you want to point the finger at people in this situation that Joe Pa would be doing, you BETTER be 100% sure there is something going on. It's similar to a woman saying someone raped her in spite because it is a heavy hand even if it is NOT true.

I agree with everyone on this board about the sickening and disturbing person this guy is (Sandusky). He IS a monster. But the fact is Joe Pa, right now, is being seen in a tangent fashion and that is FAR from the truth and what talking heads are portraying from their opinions as if JoePa "allowed" this.

Fact is, the police were notified but the people who notified the police are nearly as bad as Sandusky to me. Shcultz and Curly or whatever his name is are THE people responsible for this.
What more do you want according to the Grand Jury report the GA was a eye witness of what was happening. Went to Joe and told him what he saw. Do you think that if he said that he was raping his grandson he wouldn't have just gone to the AD
Originally posted by ninersush:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by SportsFan:
Originally posted by aman49:
Originally posted by Jcool:
Originally posted by Joecool:
I just don't see Paterno as an accomplice to anything. He is an innocent man who forwarded "hearsay." Personally, the actual witness should have made sure some action was taken upon his voice.

Please avoid personal attacks

Exactly. Reading the PDF the AD and president seem to state that the initial report was of inappropriate contact. It is hard to say what exactly was told to Paterno.

Holy crap, man...that in and of itself isn't enough to morally implicate Paterno?!?!?

55 year old man + 10 year old boy + shower + "inappropriate contact" in YOUR facilities

At the VERY least that's what Paterno knew. If that was you...you wouldn't follow up to see what the hell the AD was gonna do with that? Would you just let it be? Would you let that guy be around your facilities? I coach HS basketball, and if there was a report of someone around the program doing this to a kid, not only am I reporting this to my AD, but that guy would ABSOLUTELY NOT be allowed around my facilities until he was COMPLETELY exonerated. And you bet your ass that I'm following up to ensure that my AD went to the proper authorities.

Paterno's actions absolve him in a legal sense, but not a moral one. This smacks of a buddy covering up for a buddy, and a man who was preoccupied with his own reputation instead of doing the right thing. And quite frankly, I find it curious that a 2 year grand jury investigation of 15+ years of allegations finally come to light exactly one week after Paterno breaks the D-1 wins record.

And if the AD told you the University Police were notified and are handling it, then what. And at the same time, it is not just about a report of "someone", it is about someone you have known for a VERY long time.

It is easier said than done but if someone tells you they went to the police, which I assume, is the proper authority, wouldn't you believe that the police are now handling the situation since they are the proper authority.

IMO, Shultz/Curly who down played the situation to the police and the police that did not investigate are the real culprits here.

As much as we want to pretend we know how much we think Paterno knew or knows, we really don't.

JoeCool...so let me get this straight. in 1998 sandusky is investigated by the police for child molestation and no charges are brought up. the DA that is investigating soon after mysteriously disappears and also goes missing is his work laptop. he is NEVER heard from again. not a trace. there is no way in the world paterno does not know about this investigation. there just can't be, if you think he didnt know you are deluding yourself. then in 2002 paterno is told about an incident that happneed on school property. he reports up the chain of command. hears that it is being handled. oddly never hears about any follow up again. knowing that hey this is the SECOND time something has come up related to this. MAYBE something is FISHY. then paterno hears (probably agreed to, but that is a different point) that sandusky can't bring boys on campus anymore. that's it. at this point he doesn't question why????? he just says to himself oh cool. then goes about his business until 2004 when he hooks up the grad assistant w a permanent gig. then both of these incidents that we know about paterno being exposed to, he just forgets for oh say pretty much 10 years. then suddenly when the grand jury investigation is going on in 2009, he testifies to what he knew. i'm sure at that point he heard the rumors, if he hadn't for the 40 years before. and should have told sandusky to stay away from the campus for ever. but NO. sandusky was wokring out at the facilities last week. if you really believe that he knew nothing about what was goin on and was not 100% complicit, involved, leading, and facilitating the cover up then i really don't konw what to say to you. from all that we know about paterno at penn state he was the man with the most power. this is a case of colelnel jessup ordering the code red so to speak. no way a man that powerful doesnt know, control, bless everything that is going on on his turf. that is the reality.

You can assume all you want. Obviously, he isn't the man with the most power if he reported what he heard to a higher power. "oh cool" is completely insinuating one side. Isn't that grad assistant an assistant coach now? He was also a former player so you are completely discrediting the fact that he could possibly be a good coach to have received a promotion? Last time I checked, Penn State is playing well.

Rumors???? Believe me, if there were rumors going around, CPA would have definitely been on it due to someone saying something. From all we know, 2 people covered this up because those are the ONLY people that have lied to a Jury. Joe Pa did not lie to a Jury unless they find more stuff if it exists.

What I'm saying is that maybe we need to cool down on our thoughts about Joe Pa because from what has been presented so far, Shwartz and Curly are THE people who made this worse than it should have been.

And to finish, usually, the people closest to someone doing something dirty are the last to be aware of it.
Originally posted by IWasWrongRubber:
Now this is getting interesting...

Murder? A coverup? Off the DA before he can prosecute?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/09/sports/ncaafootball/questions-on-sandusky-wrapped-in-2005-gricar-mystery.html

Murder?
Originally posted by LB49ers:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Yeah, if you want to point the finger at people in this situation that Joe Pa would be doing, you BETTER be 100% sure there is something going on. It's similar to a woman saying someone raped her in spite because it is a heavy hand even if it is NOT true.

I agree with everyone on this board about the sickening and disturbing person this guy is (Sandusky). He IS a monster. But the fact is Joe Pa, right now, is being seen in a tangent fashion and that is FAR from the truth and what talking heads are portraying from their opinions as if JoePa "allowed" this.

Fact is, the police were notified but the people who notified the police are nearly as bad as Sandusky to me. Shcultz and Curly or whatever his name is are THE people responsible for this.
What more do you want according to the Grand Jury report the GA was a eye witness of what was happening. Went to Joe and told him what he saw. Do you think that if he said that he was raping his grandson he wouldn't have just gone to the AD

And what more do you want from Joe to go straight to the AD and tell them. Comparing his grandson being a victim is not viable. Yes, I agree that's how EVERYONE should see it as no different than you should see a homicide on the news as if it were your own family getting murdered, right?
http://www.amazon.com/Touched-Jerry-Sandusky-Story/dp/1582613575

My favorite comment:

‎"Look - it also comes in a "Leather Bound" edition - Just like the children at his camp..."
One of the boy's mother even confroted Sandusky. There's all your "This is what I would do..." talk. She was the boy's mother and this is ALL she did.

Gricar, he said, reviewed the police reports in private including, presumably, notes or recordings of two conversations that the police heard between Sandusky and the boy's mother. But Gricar had a reputation for thoroughness, and if he thought he had enough to charge Sandusky, he would have, De Boef and other lawyers said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/09/sports/ncaafootball/questions-on-sandusky-wrapped-in-2005-gricar-mystery.html?_r=1

Like I said, you all can say this or that should happen or you would have done this or that, but it's always easier when you are outside looking in.

And Sandusky could be even more of a fearful person that a predator. This guy fooled a s**t load of people so to go out and flame Joe Pa...well...let's wait until this is all done before you guys say he shoulda....and since he didn't he should go to jail or quit what he loves doing.
Originally posted by Joecool:
One of the boy's mother even confroted Sandusky. There's all your "This is what I would do..." talk. She was the boy's mother and this is ALL she did.

Gricar, he said, reviewed the police reports in private including, presumably, notes or recordings of two conversations that the police heard between Sandusky and the boy's mother. But Gricar had a reputation for thoroughness, and if he thought he had enough to charge Sandusky, he would have, De Boef and other lawyers said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/09/sports/ncaafootball/questions-on-sandusky-wrapped-in-2005-gricar-mystery.html?_r=1

Like I said, you all can say this or that should happen or you would have done this or that, but it's always easier when you are outside looking in.

And Sandusky could be even more of a fearful person that a predator. This guy fooled a s**t load of people so to go out and flame Joe Pa...well...let's wait until this is all done before you guys say he shoulda....and since he didn't he should go to jail or quit what he loves doing.

the poor boy's mother was the one who filed the charges with the police. let's not forget that sandusky got his victims from the foundation. they were underprivlidged kids that had single parents. so its very easy to see how a person as beloved/powerful/etc as sandusky could strong arm his way around a underprivlidged family that was trying to make a quick buck by making up bs about a legendary coach.

there is no doubt that sandusky should be tortured endlessly for the next 50 years. there is no doubt that the two administrators that have stepped down/fired are completely to blame. paterno who was the most powerful man on campus, if even on paper only he had a superior, knew all and ignored all. paterno brought in all the money, all the boosters, all the media. he could bring the masses of students and alumni down on any administrator if he wanted to, even the AD, university president, whoever in that university. because paterno brought in 50% if not more of the money to run that university and pay everyone's salaries. so yeah paterno was the most powerful man. no way he doesn't hear all/see all/know all. no chance what so ever. if you don't believe that, then we can agree to disagree.

in crimes like this, i'd rather shoot first and ask questions later. at worst you arrest and charge an innocent man and he has done nothing and this is far better then the alternative. the alternative being what actually happened.
[ Edited by ninersush on Nov 9, 2011 at 3:37 PM ]
Originally posted by Joecool:
One of the boy's mother even confroted Sandusky. There's all your "This is what I would do..." talk. She was the boy's mother and this is ALL she did.

Gricar, he said, reviewed the police reports in private including, presumably, notes or recordings of two conversations that the police heard between Sandusky and the boy's mother. But Gricar had a reputation for thoroughness, and if he thought he had enough to charge Sandusky, he would have, De Boef and other lawyers said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/09/sports/ncaafootball/questions-on-sandusky-wrapped-in-2005-gricar-mystery.html?_r=1

Like I said, you all can say this or that should happen or you would have done this or that, but it's always easier when you are outside looking in.

And Sandusky could be even more of a fearful person that a predator. This guy fooled a s**t load of people so to go out and flame Joe Pa...well...let's wait until this is all done before you guys say he shoulda....and since he didn't he should go to jail or quit what he loves doing.
.

Why are defending Paterno and Sandusky ?
Originally posted by ninersush:
Originally posted by Joecool:
One of the boy's mother even confroted Sandusky. There's all your "This is what I would do..." talk. She was the boy's mother and this is ALL she did.

Gricar, he said, reviewed the police reports in private including, presumably, notes or recordings of two conversations that the police heard between Sandusky and the boy's mother. But Gricar had a reputation for thoroughness, and if he thought he had enough to charge Sandusky, he would have, De Boef and other lawyers said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/09/sports/ncaafootball/questions-on-sandusky-wrapped-in-2005-gricar-mystery.html?_r=1

Like I said, you all can say this or that should happen or you would have done this or that, but it's always easier when you are outside looking in.

And Sandusky could be even more of a fearful person that a predator. This guy fooled a s**t load of people so to go out and flame Joe Pa...well...let's wait until this is all done before you guys say he shoulda....and since he didn't he should go to jail or quit what he loves doing.

the poor boy's mother was the one who filed the charges with the police. let's not forget that sandusky got his victims from the foundation. they were underprivlidged kids that had single parents. so its very easy to see how a person as beloved/powerful/etc as sandusky could strong arm his way around a underprivlidged family that was trying to make a quick buck by making up bs about a legendary coach.

there is no doubt that sandusky should be tortured endlessly for the next 50 years. there is no doubt that the two administrators that have stepped down/fired are completely to blame, but that does not mean that paterno who was the most powerful man on campus, if even on paper only he had a superior, knew all and ignored all. paterno brought in all the money, all the boosters, all the media. he could bring the masses of students and alumni down on any administrator if he wanted to, even the AD, university president, whoever in that university. because paterno brought in 50% if not more of the money to run that university and pay everyone's salaries. so yeah paterno was the most powerful man. no way he doesn't hear all/see all/know all. no chance what so ever. if you don't believe that, then we can agree to disagree.

in crimes like this, i'd rather shoot first and ask questions later. at worst you arrest and charge an innocent man and he has done nothing and this is far better then the alternative. the alternative being what actually happened.

Yes but that's all assuming that Joe PA believed enough to warrant doing this. Like I said, the people a monster fools first are the ones closest to him. We need to see how this plays out before we start puffing our chests out. Not saying you are puffing your chest out but it annoys me to hear, "I would do this..." "He shoulda..." talk.

Unless you've been there, you have NO idea what you would do and you have NO idea what JoePA knew or was aware of. For all we know, he's an old man that was oblivious to what goes on around him and was ONLY a figure head.

The one's closest are always the quickest to fool.
Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by Joecool:
One of the boy's mother even confroted Sandusky. There's all your "This is what I would do..." talk. She was the boy's mother and this is ALL she did.

Gricar, he said, reviewed the police reports in private including, presumably, notes or recordings of two conversations that the police heard between Sandusky and the boy's mother. But Gricar had a reputation for thoroughness, and if he thought he had enough to charge Sandusky, he would have, De Boef and other lawyers said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/09/sports/ncaafootball/questions-on-sandusky-wrapped-in-2005-gricar-mystery.html?_r=1

Like I said, you all can say this or that should happen or you would have done this or that, but it's always easier when you are outside looking in.

And Sandusky could be even more of a fearful person that a predator. This guy fooled a s**t load of people so to go out and flame Joe Pa...well...let's wait until this is all done before you guys say he shoulda....and since he didn't he should go to jail or quit what he loves doing.
.

Why are defending Paterno and Sandusky ?

Huh? Not defending Sandusky at all.