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Week 7: 49er Thoughts after watching STANFORD game....

Granted, I haven't watched a lot of Stanford this year, but I was struck by the thought that, if Harbaugh had his druthers, that his offense would look exactly like Stanfords did in that game. I think what we've seen so far this year from the 49ers basically speaks exactly to that. I just hope that people will realize that and we can stop arguing about whether Harbaugh is "hiding" Smith or whether Smith is incapable of throwing for 300+ yards. There's a number of reasons that our passing offense has been slow or has struggled, but overall I think its completely by design.

Finding a franchise QB is one of the hardest feats in sports. If you have an offense--run successfully--that doesn't rely on the QB as much, and relies instead of RB's, which are a "dime a dozen," you have an advantage over the rest of the league.
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
if you watched other cardinal games, Luck does throw a lot more and it is why he gets the attention. Stanford finds and exploits the other teams weakness and it happened to be the run this game.

If you want to measure Luck, this weekends game and the one Vs Oregon are the games to watch.

I've watched a number of them and Luck will have games when he gets his numbers, but Stanford almost always uses HEAVY doses of the running game. Alot of Lucks numbers come on play action.

BTW, I'm not trying to downplay Luck so much as I'm saying that the offense is very QB friendly.
Originally posted by Nicks240:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Just a few thoughts on a bye week....

1) It really is amazing how similar these offenses are. 7 Linemen sets. 3 TE sets. 7 Linemen, 2 TE sets. Crazy. Motion all over the place.

2) To all the "Alex Smith is only throwing for 125 yards" critics. Andrew Luck....16-21 169 yards and 2 TDs. How did they win by so much? They RAN for 400+ yards For all of the attention Luck gets, Stanford is a RUNNING team. Just ask Toby Gerhart.

3) I think the Niners will be looking at TE Coby Fleener in the draft next year.

4) I really like Andrew Luck, but part of me wonders if he is a product of his system and that he isn't the can't miss prospect he is billed to be. It seems to me that Harbaugh is the QB Whisperer and ALL of his QBs perform.

5) It also seems that Harbaugh is treating Kaepernick the same way he treated Luck. Harbaugh redshirted Luck his first year. Even if Smith struggles, I'd be really surprised to see Kaep start a game this year.
Its a mistake if Kaepernick ever sees the field as a starter, ever. I'm not bashing you, I just do not think he will do good in this league.

We'll see....
Originally posted by Marvin49:
I've watched a number of them and Luck will have games when he gets his numbers, but Stanford almost always uses HEAVY doses of the running game. Alot of Lucks numbers come on play action.

BTW, I'm not trying to downplay Luck so much as I'm saying that the offense is very QB friendly.

This.
Originally posted by Marvin49:
I've watched a number of them and Luck will have games when he gets his numbers, but Stanford almost always uses HEAVY doses of the running game. Alot of Lucks numbers come on play action.

BTW, I'm not trying to downplay Luck so much as I'm saying that the offense is very QB friendly.

Its QB friendly because of the QB running it. The Spread is a system that is truly QB friendly.
Originally posted by sdaddy101269:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Just a few thoughts on a bye week....

1) It really is amazing how similar these offenses are. 7 Linemen sets. 3 TE sets. 7 Linemen, 2 TE sets. Crazy. Motion all over the place.

2) To all the "Alex Smith is only throwing for 125 yards" critics. Andrew Luck....16-21 169 yards and 2 TDs. How did they win by so much? They RAN for 400+ yards For all of the attention Luck gets, Stanford is a RUNNING team. Just ask Toby Gerhart.

3) I think the Niners will be looking at TE Coby Fleener in the draft next year.

4) I really like Andrew Luck, but part of me wonders if he is a product of his system and that he isn't the can't miss prospect he is billed to be. It seems to me that Harbaugh is the QB Whisperer and ALL of his QBs perform.

5) It also seems that Harbaugh is treating Kaepernick the same way he treated Luck. Harbaugh redshirted Luck his first year. Even if Smith struggles, I'd be really surprised to see Kaep start a game this year.

You're missing a couple things:

1. If you're going to compare Smiths stats to Lucks then Include ALL of them not just this past weekend. (99% of 9er fans would take Luck and quite a few other guys over Smith)

2. There are no University of Washingtons in the NFL so you can run for 400 and not have to pass.

3. It is said that Luck is the ONLY can't miss prospect since Elway.

4. Why would they look at Fleener in the draft? seems to me he would be a free agent pickup at most.

Just my 2cents

1) ...and so would I. Wasn't my point. My point was that many OTHER QBs might be able to run this offense very well. Yes, Luck has put up some numbers, but Stanford ALWAYS runs the ball well and Luck doesn't always throw for 300.

2) Missing the point again. Nobody is going to run for 400 yards in a game, but they can run for 200+ yards (something the Niners have done in each of the past 2 weeks).

3) I don't buy it. There is no such thing as "can't miss". There are too many idiots running offenses in the NFL (See Hostler, Jim; Raye, Jimmy). Luck is very rarely pressured and hits recievers who are open by about 10 yards. I think Luck will be good, but I don't think he's as "Can't Miss" as many people say.

4) We will agree to disagree on Fleener. Big, Fast, can block, already knows the offense.
Originally posted by travisdecpn:
The Wham running play is being picked up by other teams now, both the Lions and Falcons were using it yesterday, albeit not quite as well as the 49ers run it. It's nice having a coaching staff that is competent; can't remember the last time other teams were taking plays out of our playbook.

This.
Originally posted by sdaddy101269:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Just a few thoughts on a bye week....

1) It really is amazing how similar these offenses are. 7 Linemen sets. 3 TE sets. 7 Linemen, 2 TE sets. Crazy. Motion all over the place.

2) To all the "Alex Smith is only throwing for 125 yards" critics. Andrew Luck....16-21 169 yards and 2 TDs. How did they win by so much? They RAN for 400+ yards For all of the attention Luck gets, Stanford is a RUNNING team. Just ask Toby Gerhart.

3) I think the Niners will be looking at TE Coby Fleener in the draft next year.

4) I really like Andrew Luck, but part of me wonders if he is a product of his system and that he isn't the can't miss prospect he is billed to be. It seems to me that Harbaugh is the QB Whisperer and ALL of his QBs perform.

5) It also seems that Harbaugh is treating Kaepernick the same way he treated Luck. Harbaugh redshirted Luck his first year. Even if Smith struggles, I'd be really surprised to see Kaep start a game this year.

You're missing a couple things:

1. If you're going to compare Smiths stats to Lucks then Include ALL of them not just this past weekend. (99% of 9er fans would take Luck and quite a few other guys over Smith)

2. There are no University of Washingtons in the NFL so you can run for 400 and not have to pass.

3. It is said that Luck is the ONLY can't miss prospect since Elway.

4. Why would they look at Fleener in the draft? seems to me he would be a free agent pickup at most.

Just my 2cents

UW is not the same UW that went 1-11 a couple of years ago with very little talent. They were ranked 25th before the game and steve sarkisian has helped mightly with the recruiting since taking over as the head coach. UW isn't a joke of a program that it once was.

Coby Fleener should be one of the top TE prospects in the nation. He's got it all for a TE, size (6'6" 245lbs), speed, strength, good hands, and he is athletic. Very versatile, can stretch the field with his speed and hands and can stay in and block. He already is one of the best TE's in the PAC12 so for him to not be drafted at all would be a complete joke.
Originally posted by sdaddy101269:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
I've watched a number of them and Luck will have games when he gets his numbers, but Stanford almost always uses HEAVY doses of the running game. Alot of Lucks numbers come on play action.

BTW, I'm not trying to downplay Luck so much as I'm saying that the offense is very QB friendly.

Its QB friendly because of the QB running it. The Spread is a system that is truly QB friendly.

BS.

Its QB friendly with any QB running it. How often is he pressured? How often is a guy running open by 10 yards? What makes it SOOOO QB friendly? All of the "grey area" is removed to make decisions easier and there is ALOT of play-action pulling the safeties out of the middle. Again, I'm not trying to bash Luck. I think he'll be good...I'm just not buying the "next Peyton Manning" label just yet. I think this O has a habit of making QBs look really good. (Josh Johnson, Andrew Luck, and now to a lesser extent even Alex Smith). Thats not a bad thing BTW...as Greg Cosell said on the radio a few days ago....thats called COACHING.

The spread just allows QBs to get alot of attempts and yards and gets recievers in space so the numbers skyrocket.
Originally posted by schmons:
Originally posted by sdaddy101269:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Just a few thoughts on a bye week....

1) It really is amazing how similar these offenses are. 7 Linemen sets. 3 TE sets. 7 Linemen, 2 TE sets. Crazy. Motion all over the place.

2) To all the "Alex Smith is only throwing for 125 yards" critics. Andrew Luck....16-21 169 yards and 2 TDs. How did they win by so much? They RAN for 400+ yards For all of the attention Luck gets, Stanford is a RUNNING team. Just ask Toby Gerhart.

3) I think the Niners will be looking at TE Coby Fleener in the draft next year.

4) I really like Andrew Luck, but part of me wonders if he is a product of his system and that he isn't the can't miss prospect he is billed to be. It seems to me that Harbaugh is the QB Whisperer and ALL of his QBs perform.

5) It also seems that Harbaugh is treating Kaepernick the same way he treated Luck. Harbaugh redshirted Luck his first year. Even if Smith struggles, I'd be really surprised to see Kaep start a game this year.

You're missing a couple things:

1. If you're going to compare Smiths stats to Lucks then Include ALL of them not just this past weekend. (99% of 9er fans would take Luck and quite a few other guys over Smith)

2. There are no University of Washingtons in the NFL so you can run for 400 and not have to pass.

3. It is said that Luck is the ONLY can't miss prospect since Elway.

4. Why would they look at Fleener in the draft? seems to me he would be a free agent pickup at most.

Just my 2cents

UW is not the same UW that went 1-11 a couple of years ago with very little talent. They were ranked 25th before the game and steve sarkisian has helped mightly with the recruiting since taking over as the head coach. UW isn't a joke of a program that it once was.

Coby Fleener should be one of the top TE prospects in the nation. He's got it all for a TE, size (6'6" 245lbs), speed, strength, good hands, and he is athletic. Very versatile, can stretch the field with his speed and hands and can stay in and block. He already is one of the best TE's in the PAC12 so for him to not be drafted at all would be a complete joke.

This...in particular in regards to Fleener.
i just looked at a few draft prospect rankings and many have fleener as the top TE prospect already. he should be the first TE taken in the 2nd or 3rd round.
WTF!?! Why did this get moved? How is this not Niner related?

Lame.
This was clearly a 49er thread, why it was bumped is beyond me Just because Stanford was used as an example doesn't make it not a 49er discussion.



Anyways I think the point of the thread wasn't meant to bash anyone but to shine the light on the style of football that Harbaugh runs, Its safe to say that Stanford and the 49ers are a running team, designed to take pressure off the most important position in the game so that it reduces mistakes and maximizes the efficiency of each game, It would also be ignorant to say that this isn't the objective of every team, that goes for players like Manning, Brady, Rogers and Brees, all teams try to cover their QB's weaknesses to maximize their strengths.
[ Edited by Natewillis2252 on Oct 24, 2011 at 2:15 PM ]
Originally posted by schmons:
UW is not the same UW that went 1-11 a couple of years ago with very little talent. They were ranked 25th before the game and steve sarkisian has helped mightly with the recruiting since taking over as the head coach. UW isn't a joke of a program that it once was.

Coby Fleener should be one of the top TE prospects in the nation. He's got it all for a TE, size (6'6" 245lbs), speed, strength, good hands, and he is athletic. Very versatile, can stretch the field with his speed and hands and can stay in and block. He already is one of the best TE's in the PAC12 so for him to not be drafted at all would be a complete joke.

Colby Fleener is one of the top TEs along with Egnew of Mizzou, Ladarius Green of LA-Lafayette, and Davis Paulson of Oregon. As far as which one of those 4 goes first, it will probably depend on their work outs.


Originally posted by Marvin49:
BS.

Its QB friendly with any QB running it. How often is he pressured? How often is a guy running open by 10 yards? What makes it SOOOO QB friendly? All of the "grey area" is removed to make decisions easier and there is ALOT of play-action pulling the safeties out of the middle. Again, I'm not trying to bash Luck. I think he'll be good...I'm just not buying the "next Peyton Manning" label just yet. I think this O has a habit of making QBs look really good. (Josh Johnson, Andrew Luck, and now to a lesser extent even Alex Smith). Thats not a bad thing BTW...as Greg Cosell said on the radio a few days ago....thats called COACHING.

The spread just allows QBs to get alot of attempts and yards and gets recievers in space so the numbers skyrocket.

Calling Stanford's offense QB Friendly is kind of a joke. I would like to hear from you what successful offense isn't QB friendly in college...And the QB Friendly label is used to typically describe spread offenses that make a QB look a lot better than he is because it inflates his statistics.

Harbaugh used a run-first, pro-oriented offense built around a great O-line and multiple TEs in motion. Not much has changed with his offense at 49ers (although I think we are still one TE short of what Harbaugh wants to do).

And if you think Luck is removed from making decisions, I think you are totally mistaken. Just because its play action doesn't mean he isn't making a decision.

If you watch Stanford enough, you'll see they have no problem opening up the passing game if their run game struggles, but they prefer to use passing game as the killshot and use running to control possession and wear down a team.

Finally, one major reason Luck hasn't opened up his passing game much is you have to look at college recruiting to understand. Stanford has an extremely hard time getting WRs to commit, so in terms of WR talent there isn't much there outside of Owusu. Alternatively, Harbaugh was able to get a s**t load of TEs to commit because other teams weren't as focused on recruiting that position.
[ Edited by SunDevilNiner79 on Oct 24, 2011 at 3:00 PM ]