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Is D.Jeter the greatest Yankee of all time?

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
atleast Michael Young is a way better comp then Juan Gonzalez.

Juan Gonzalez haha

Uhhhhh.......

first off, if ur gonna use stats, atleast use baseball reference.

Do you still think Jeter>Gonzalez?

I could make an argument that Luis Gonzalez is better than Juan Gonzalez.

LOL. No you can't. I can't believe how little love all you guys are giving him. If he's not the best player of the entire decade of the 90's, he's certainly no worse than 2nd or 3rd. He won 2 MVP's. And he did it all for the one squad. And you guys are acting like I just said Jim Druckenmiller>Joe Montana. I just don't get it.


Luis - .283 Avg 354 HRs 596 2Bs 1439 RBIs 1155 BBs 1218 Ks .367 OBP .479 SLG .845 OPS

Juan -.295 Avg 434 HRs 388 2Bs 1404 RBIs 457 BBs 1273 Ks .343 OBP .561 SLG .904 OPS

Juan hit higher average, less RBIs, WAY less walks, on-base less often, way less doubles...


i win.

Jesus. Luis had over 2600 more at bats. How much weight do you think having 35 more career RBI's holds? Lol. And slugging and OPS are both waaaaaay better stats than OBP, and Juan holds quite healthy advantages in those (way bigger discrepancies than Luis' small advantage on OBP, which, like I said, is way less important anyways)- which take doubles into account. About the only thing Luis was better at was walks. Juan won 2 MVP's to Luis' 0. Also, do you deny that Juan was no worse than the 3rd best player of the entire decade of the 90's, or are you gonna disagree with that too???

Ken Griffey Jr,
Barry Bonds
Frank Thomas.

Next subject.

I think Juan Gonzalez is likely better than Frank Thomas. But even if he's not, how many others can you name? The bottom line is he was ONE of the best players of the 90's (I think he may have had more extra base hits than anyone else in that span). It's not like you can say the same about a stretch that long for Jeter. Can we not agree on that?
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
atleast Michael Young is a way better comp then Juan Gonzalez.

Juan Gonzalez haha

Uhhhhh.......

first off, if ur gonna use stats, atleast use baseball reference.

Do you still think Jeter>Gonzalez?

I could make an argument that Luis Gonzalez is better than Juan Gonzalez.

LOL. No you can't. I can't believe how little love all you guys are giving him. If he's not the best player of the entire decade of the 90's, he's certainly no worse than 2nd or 3rd. He won 2 MVP's. And he did it all for the one squad. And you guys are acting like I just said Jim Druckenmiller>Joe Montana. I just don't get it.


Luis - .283 Avg 354 HRs 596 2Bs 1439 RBIs 1155 BBs 1218 Ks .367 OBP .479 SLG .845 OPS

Juan -.295 Avg 434 HRs 388 2Bs 1404 RBIs 457 BBs 1273 Ks .343 OBP .561 SLG .904 OPS

Juan hit higher average, less RBIs, WAY less walks, on-base less often, way less doubles...


i win.

Jesus. Luis had over 2600 more at bats. How much weight do you think having 35 more career RBI's holds? Lol. And slugging and OPS are both waaaaaay better stats than OBP, and Juan holds quite healthy advantages in those (way bigger discrepancies than Luis' small advantage on OBP, which, like I said, is way less important anyways)- which take doubles into account. About the only thing Luis was better at was walks. Juan won 2 MVP's to Luis' 0. Also, do you deny that Juan was no worse than the 3rd best player of the entire decade of the 90's, or are you gonna disagree with that too???

Ken Griffey Jr,
Barry Bonds
Frank Thomas.

Next subject.

I think Juan Gonzalez is likely better than Frank Thomas. But even if he's not, how many others can you name? The bottom line is he was ONE of the best players of the 90's (I think he may have had more extra base hits than anyone else in that span). It's not like you can say the same about a stretch that long for Jeter. Can we not agree on that?

Backtracking now? Thomas had top 7 MVP's 7 times in the 90s. Gonzalez 3 times. You are wrong again. Next subject.
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
again, its apples to oranges.

Comparing Michael Jordan to Marquez Pope is also apples to oranges. They didn't even play the same sport. Doesn't mean you can't say Jordan was a better athlete. Same thing here. Yes, they had different roles. That doesn't mean you can't say Juan Gon was better.
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
atleast Michael Young is a way better comp then Juan Gonzalez.

Juan Gonzalez haha

Uhhhhh.......

first off, if ur gonna use stats, atleast use baseball reference.

Do you still think Jeter>Gonzalez?

I could make an argument that Luis Gonzalez is better than Juan Gonzalez.

LOL. No you can't. I can't believe how little love all you guys are giving him. If he's not the best player of the entire decade of the 90's, he's certainly no worse than 2nd or 3rd. He won 2 MVP's. And he did it all for the one squad. And you guys are acting like I just said Jim Druckenmiller>Joe Montana. I just don't get it.


Luis - .283 Avg 354 HRs 596 2Bs 1439 RBIs 1155 BBs 1218 Ks .367 OBP .479 SLG .845 OPS

Juan -.295 Avg 434 HRs 388 2Bs 1404 RBIs 457 BBs 1273 Ks .343 OBP .561 SLG .904 OPS

Juan hit higher average, less RBIs, WAY less walks, on-base less often, way less doubles...


i win.

Jesus. Luis had over 2600 more at bats. How much weight do you think having 35 more career RBI's holds? Lol. And slugging and OPS are both waaaaaay better stats than OBP, and Juan holds quite healthy advantages in those (way bigger discrepancies than Luis' small advantage on OBP, which, like I said, is way less important anyways)- which take doubles into account. About the only thing Luis was better at was walks. Juan won 2 MVP's to Luis' 0. Also, do you deny that Juan was no worse than the 3rd best player of the entire decade of the 90's, or are you gonna disagree with that too???

Ken Griffey Jr,
Barry Bonds
Frank Thomas.

Next subject.

I think Juan Gonzalez is likely better than Frank Thomas. But even if he's not, how many others can you name? The bottom line is he was ONE of the best players of the 90's (I think he may have had more extra base hits than anyone else in that span). It's not like you can say the same about a stretch that long for Jeter. Can we not agree on that?

Backtracking now? Thomas had top 7 MVP's 7 times in the 90s. Gonzalez 3 times. You are wrong again. Next subject.

YOU'RE talking about backtracking? The man who went out of his way to say Jeter would have been the best player and NOT just hitter on several teams, then listing teams saying he would be the best position player for them? Ok smart guy, so where do you rank Gonzalez amongst the best players of the 90's?

Also, btw, I love how NOW you're willing to call Thomas a top-3 players of the 90's but still claimed Jeter would be the best player in White Sox history. Contradiction, much?
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
atleast Michael Young is a way better comp then Juan Gonzalez.

Juan Gonzalez haha

Uhhhhh.......

first off, if ur gonna use stats, atleast use baseball reference.

Do you still think Jeter>Gonzalez?

I could make an argument that Luis Gonzalez is better than Juan Gonzalez.

LOL. No you can't. I can't believe how little love all you guys are giving him. If he's not the best player of the entire decade of the 90's, he's certainly no worse than 2nd or 3rd. He won 2 MVP's. And he did it all for the one squad. And you guys are acting like I just said Jim Druckenmiller>Joe Montana. I just don't get it.


Luis - .283 Avg 354 HRs 596 2Bs 1439 RBIs 1155 BBs 1218 Ks .367 OBP .479 SLG .845 OPS

Juan -.295 Avg 434 HRs 388 2Bs 1404 RBIs 457 BBs 1273 Ks .343 OBP .561 SLG .904 OPS

Juan hit higher average, less RBIs, WAY less walks, on-base less often, way less doubles...


i win.

Jesus. Luis had over 2600 more at bats. How much weight do you think having 35 more career RBI's holds? Lol. And slugging and OPS are both waaaaaay better stats than OBP, and Juan holds quite healthy advantages in those (way bigger discrepancies than Luis' small advantage on OBP, which, like I said, is way less important anyways)- which take doubles into account. About the only thing Luis was better at was walks. Juan won 2 MVP's to Luis' 0. Also, do you deny that Juan was no worse than the 3rd best player of the entire decade of the 90's, or are you gonna disagree with that too???

Ken Griffey Jr,
Barry Bonds
Frank Thomas.

Next subject.

I think Juan Gonzalez is likely better than Frank Thomas. But even if he's not, how many others can you name? The bottom line is he was ONE of the best players of the 90's (I think he may have had more extra base hits than anyone else in that span). It's not like you can say the same about a stretch that long for Jeter. Can we not agree on that?

Backtracking now? Thomas had top 7 MVP's 7 times in the 90s. Gonzalez 3 times. You are wrong again. Next subject.

YOU'RE talking about backtracking? The man who went out of his way to say Jeter would have been the best player and NOT just hitter on several teams, then listing teams saying he would be the best position player for them? Ok smart guy, so where do you rank Gonzalez amongst the best players of the 90's?

Also, btw, I love how NOW you're willing to call Thomas a top-3 players of the 90's but still claimed Jeter would be the best player in White Sox history. Contradiction, much?

At least you recognize that I am smart. Sorry but I cannot reciprocate.
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
atleast Michael Young is a way better comp then Juan Gonzalez.

Juan Gonzalez haha

Uhhhhh.......

first off, if ur gonna use stats, atleast use baseball reference.

Do you still think Jeter>Gonzalez?

I could make an argument that Luis Gonzalez is better than Juan Gonzalez.

LOL. No you can't. I can't believe how little love all you guys are giving him. If he's not the best player of the entire decade of the 90's, he's certainly no worse than 2nd or 3rd. He won 2 MVP's. And he did it all for the one squad. And you guys are acting like I just said Jim Druckenmiller>Joe Montana. I just don't get it.


Luis - .283 Avg 354 HRs 596 2Bs 1439 RBIs 1155 BBs 1218 Ks .367 OBP .479 SLG .845 OPS

Juan -.295 Avg 434 HRs 388 2Bs 1404 RBIs 457 BBs 1273 Ks .343 OBP .561 SLG .904 OPS

Juan hit higher average, less RBIs, WAY less walks, on-base less often, way less doubles...


i win.

Jesus. Luis had over 2600 more at bats. How much weight do you think having 35 more career RBI's holds? Lol. And slugging and OPS are both waaaaaay better stats than OBP, and Juan holds quite healthy advantages in those (way bigger discrepancies than Luis' small advantage on OBP, which, like I said, is way less important anyways)- which take doubles into account. About the only thing Luis was better at was walks. Juan won 2 MVP's to Luis' 0. Also, do you deny that Juan was no worse than the 3rd best player of the entire decade of the 90's, or are you gonna disagree with that too???

Ken Griffey Jr,
Barry Bonds
Frank Thomas.

Next subject.

I'd throw Albert Belle in the mix too.

And even though he didn't play for the entire decade, Manny is pretty high on the list as well.
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
atleast Michael Young is a way better comp then Juan Gonzalez.

Juan Gonzalez haha

Uhhhhh.......

first off, if ur gonna use stats, atleast use baseball reference.

Do you still think Jeter>Gonzalez?

I could make an argument that Luis Gonzalez is better than Juan Gonzalez.

LOL. No you can't. I can't believe how little love all you guys are giving him. If he's not the best player of the entire decade of the 90's, he's certainly no worse than 2nd or 3rd. He won 2 MVP's. And he did it all for the one squad. And you guys are acting like I just said Jim Druckenmiller>Joe Montana. I just don't get it.


Luis - .283 Avg 354 HRs 596 2Bs 1439 RBIs 1155 BBs 1218 Ks .367 OBP .479 SLG .845 OPS

Juan -.295 Avg 434 HRs 388 2Bs 1404 RBIs 457 BBs 1273 Ks .343 OBP .561 SLG .904 OPS

Juan hit higher average, less RBIs, WAY less walks, on-base less often, way less doubles...


i win.

Jesus. Luis had over 2600 more at bats. How much weight do you think having 35 more career RBI's holds? Lol. And slugging and OPS are both waaaaaay better stats than OBP, and Juan holds quite healthy advantages in those (way bigger discrepancies than Luis' small advantage on OBP, which, like I said, is way less important anyways)- which take doubles into account. About the only thing Luis was better at was walks. Juan won 2 MVP's to Luis' 0. Also, do you deny that Juan was no worse than the 3rd best player of the entire decade of the 90's, or are you gonna disagree with that too???

Ken Griffey Jr,
Barry Bonds
Frank Thomas.

Next subject.

I think Juan Gonzalez is likely better than Frank Thomas. But even if he's not, how many others can you name? The bottom line is he was ONE of the best players of the 90's (I think he may have had more extra base hits than anyone else in that span). It's not like you can say the same about a stretch that long for Jeter. Can we not agree on that?

Backtracking now? Thomas had top 7 MVP's 7 times in the 90s. Gonzalez 3 times. You are wrong again. Next subject.

YOU'RE talking about backtracking? The man who went out of his way to say Jeter would have been the best player and NOT just hitter on several teams, then listing teams saying he would be the best position player for them? Ok smart guy, so where do you rank Gonzalez amongst the best players of the 90's?

Also, btw, I love how NOW you're willing to call Thomas a top-3 players of the 90's but still claimed Jeter would be the best player in White Sox history. Contradiction, much?

At least you recognize that I am smart. Sorry but I cannot reciprocate.

Lol, way to actually respond to the points at hand. Why don't you answer the question, where do you rank Gonzalez amonst the best players of the 90's? It doesn't matter if it's 1st, it doesn't matter if it's 2nd, it doesn't matter if it's 4th. All that matters is that whatever it is, you can't say something similar about Jeter for a similar stretch.
^
I'd go:

Griffey
Bonds
Thomas
Belle
Gonzalez
Ramirez
Originally posted by DaManRathman:
^
I'd go:

Griffey
Bonds
Thomas
Belle
Gonzalez
Ramirez

Ok, so wouldn't you agree that that makes Gonzalez>Jeter? Esp. when you throw in the 2 MVP awards. And that makes that original Indians statement so absurd. TWO-THIRDS of their outfield in the mid-90's alone were composed of players better than Jeter.
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
atleast Michael Young is a way better comp then Juan Gonzalez.

Juan Gonzalez haha

Uhhhhh.......

first off, if ur gonna use stats, atleast use baseball reference.

Do you still think Jeter>Gonzalez?

I could make an argument that Luis Gonzalez is better than Juan Gonzalez.

LOL. No you can't. I can't believe how little love all you guys are giving him. If he's not the best player of the entire decade of the 90's, he's certainly no worse than 2nd or 3rd. He won 2 MVP's. And he did it all for the one squad. And you guys are acting like I just said Jim Druckenmiller>Joe Montana. I just don't get it.


Luis - .283 Avg 354 HRs 596 2Bs 1439 RBIs 1155 BBs 1218 Ks .367 OBP .479 SLG .845 OPS

Juan -.295 Avg 434 HRs 388 2Bs 1404 RBIs 457 BBs 1273 Ks .343 OBP .561 SLG .904 OPS

Juan hit higher average, less RBIs, WAY less walks, on-base less often, way less doubles...


i win.

Jesus. Luis had over 2600 more at bats. How much weight do you think having 35 more career RBI's holds? Lol. And slugging and OPS are both waaaaaay better stats than OBP, and Juan holds quite healthy advantages in those (way bigger discrepancies than Luis' small advantage on OBP, which, like I said, is way less important anyways)- which take doubles into account. About the only thing Luis was better at was walks. Juan won 2 MVP's to Luis' 0. Also, do you deny that Juan was no worse than the 3rd best player of the entire decade of the 90's, or are you gonna disagree with that too???

Ken Griffey Jr,
Barry Bonds
Frank Thomas.

Next subject.

I think Juan Gonzalez is likely better than Frank Thomas. But even if he's not, how many others can you name? The bottom line is he was ONE of the best players of the 90's (I think he may have had more extra base hits than anyone else in that span). It's not like you can say the same about a stretch that long for Jeter. Can we not agree on that?

Backtracking now? Thomas had top 7 MVP's 7 times in the 90s. Gonzalez 3 times. You are wrong again. Next subject.

YOU'RE talking about backtracking? The man who went out of his way to say Jeter would have been the best player and NOT just hitter on several teams, then listing teams saying he would be the best position player for them? Ok smart guy, so where do you rank Gonzalez amongst the best players of the 90's?

Also, btw, I love how NOW you're willing to call Thomas a top-3 players of the 90's but still claimed Jeter would be the best player in White Sox history. Contradiction, much?

At least you recognize that I am smart. Sorry but I cannot reciprocate.

Lol, way to actually respond to the points at hand. Why don't you answer the question, where do you rank Gonzalez amonst the best players of the 90's? It doesn't matter if it's 1st, it doesn't matter if it's 2nd, it doesn't matter if it's 4th. All that matters is that whatever it is, you can't say something similar about Jeter for a similar stretch.

I would put Jeter ahead of Gonzalez for an ENTIRE career given everything that it takes to be a ballplayer and not just the ability to hit the ball out of the park. All you care about is power stats. You dont seem to care that he was a marginal outfielder at best who DH'd about 1 out of every 4 games. OR.. that he was slow and only stole 26 bases in 17 seasons while getting caught 19 times. OR.. that he was near the top in hitting into DPs several times. OR.. that he was washed up by the time he was 33. OR.. that he played a corner OF position where it is MUCH easier to find a power hitter than at SS.

For a power hitter with no other redeeming features it is surprising that Juan Gonzalez NEVER - REPEAT NEVER finished in the top 3 in OPS in any season. So. in summary... NO speed, Bad defense, No longevity, No titles, NEVER top 3 in OPS. Oh wait.. it gets better. Jeter top 6 in WAR 6 times in his career. Juan Gonzalez.. 0 ( ZERO, NADA, NIL, ZIP, NEVER) times. Well.. he did finish 9th once!The defense rests!
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
atleast Michael Young is a way better comp then Juan Gonzalez.

Juan Gonzalez haha

Uhhhhh.......

first off, if ur gonna use stats, atleast use baseball reference.

Do you still think Jeter>Gonzalez?

I could make an argument that Luis Gonzalez is better than Juan Gonzalez.

LOL. No you can't. I can't believe how little love all you guys are giving him. If he's not the best player of the entire decade of the 90's, he's certainly no worse than 2nd or 3rd. He won 2 MVP's. And he did it all for the one squad. And you guys are acting like I just said Jim Druckenmiller>Joe Montana. I just don't get it.


Luis - .283 Avg 354 HRs 596 2Bs 1439 RBIs 1155 BBs 1218 Ks .367 OBP .479 SLG .845 OPS

Juan -.295 Avg 434 HRs 388 2Bs 1404 RBIs 457 BBs 1273 Ks .343 OBP .561 SLG .904 OPS

Juan hit higher average, less RBIs, WAY less walks, on-base less often, way less doubles...


i win.

Jesus. Luis had over 2600 more at bats. How much weight do you think having 35 more career RBI's holds? Lol. And slugging and OPS are both waaaaaay better stats than OBP, and Juan holds quite healthy advantages in those (way bigger discrepancies than Luis' small advantage on OBP, which, like I said, is way less important anyways)- which take doubles into account. About the only thing Luis was better at was walks. Juan won 2 MVP's to Luis' 0. Also, do you deny that Juan was no worse than the 3rd best player of the entire decade of the 90's, or are you gonna disagree with that too???

Ken Griffey Jr,
Barry Bonds
Frank Thomas.

Next subject.

I think Juan Gonzalez is likely better than Frank Thomas. But even if he's not, how many others can you name? The bottom line is he was ONE of the best players of the 90's (I think he may have had more extra base hits than anyone else in that span). It's not like you can say the same about a stretch that long for Jeter. Can we not agree on that?

Backtracking now? Thomas had top 7 MVP's 7 times in the 90s. Gonzalez 3 times. You are wrong again. Next subject.

YOU'RE talking about backtracking? The man who went out of his way to say Jeter would have been the best player and NOT just hitter on several teams, then listing teams saying he would be the best position player for them? Ok smart guy, so where do you rank Gonzalez amongst the best players of the 90's?

Also, btw, I love how NOW you're willing to call Thomas a top-3 players of the 90's but still claimed Jeter would be the best player in White Sox history. Contradiction, much?

At least you recognize that I am smart. Sorry but I cannot reciprocate.

Lol, way to actually respond to the points at hand. Why don't you answer the question, where do you rank Gonzalez amonst the best players of the 90's? It doesn't matter if it's 1st, it doesn't matter if it's 2nd, it doesn't matter if it's 4th. All that matters is that whatever it is, you can't say something similar about Jeter for a similar stretch.

I would put Jeter ahead of Gonzalez for an ENTIRE career given everything that it takes to be a ballplayer and not just the ability to hit the ball out of the park. All you care about is power stats. You dont seem to care that he was a marginal outfielder at best who DH'd about 1 out of every 4 games. OR.. that he was slow and only stole 26 bases in 17 seasons while getting caught 19 times. OR.. that he was near the top in hitting into DPs several times. OR.. that he was washed up by the time he was 33. OR.. that he played a corner OF position where it is MUCH easier to find a power hitter than at SS.

For a power hitter with no other redeeming features it is surprising that Juan Gonzalez NEVER - REPEAT NEVER finished in the top 3 in OPS in any season. So. in summary... NO speed, Bad defense, No longevity, No titles, NEVER top 3 in OPS. Oh wait.. it gets better. Jeter top 6 in WAR 6 times in his career. Juan Gonzalez.. 0 ( ZERO, NADA, NIL, ZIP, NEVER) times. Well.. he did finish 9th once!The defense rests!

And Jeter's last good year was when he was at the WAAAY older age of..........drumroll...........34. AGAIN, longevity only carries so much weight. Being good for a million years is not as impressive as being dominant for a shorter period of time. That's why no one thinks Ricky Proehl was a better receiver than Sterling Sharpe. The key way to truly gauge how great someone is at something, you look at how they did at their best and so you gotta put a little more emphasis on the best FEW years of each. And Jeter at his best was nowhere near Juan Gon at his. I also care about far more than power stats. I bet I hold Stan Musial in higher esteem than you do, and he never even hit 40 dingers in a season. Jose Reyes is slugging .529 right now with an OPS of .927 and he has just 3 homers. Shane Victorino is another example. When I look at slugging, it's not just because great POWER players have great sugging %'s...it's because great players period do. Jeter was definitely a better fielder, it's not like there's plays that happen all the time that Jeter would make that the average big league shortstop couldn't. The GREAT, OVERWHELMING majority of balls hit are gonna be a basehit regardless of who's fielding or an out regardless of who's fielding. And though Jeter is obviously also a better basestealer, it's not like he's Rickey Henderson- he averages under 20 per season. As for the titles, you never respond to what I say about that, but this is copy and pasted from before: it's irrelevant when comparing players because teams win championships. So if you want to compare the YANKEES with the BLUE JAYS, then yes, the Yankees>Blue Jays. That doesn't make Jeter>Delgado. Is Horry>Jordan? You seem to ignore the INDIVIDUAL accolades that guys like Bagwell and Thomas and Gonzalez have acquired such as MVP and just seem to be focusing on team accomplishments. It's not like Delgado would have no rings if he were fortunate enough to play with the Yankees during those years, nor would Jeter have any rings if he played for the Blue Jays.
Paragraphs are for suckers.
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
atleast Michael Young is a way better comp then Juan Gonzalez.

Juan Gonzalez haha

Uhhhhh.......

first off, if ur gonna use stats, atleast use baseball reference.

Do you still think Jeter>Gonzalez?

I could make an argument that Luis Gonzalez is better than Juan Gonzalez.

LOL. No you can't. I can't believe how little love all you guys are giving him. If he's not the best player of the entire decade of the 90's, he's certainly no worse than 2nd or 3rd. He won 2 MVP's. And he did it all for the one squad. And you guys are acting like I just said Jim Druckenmiller>Joe Montana. I just don't get it.


Luis - .283 Avg 354 HRs 596 2Bs 1439 RBIs 1155 BBs 1218 Ks .367 OBP .479 SLG .845 OPS

Juan -.295 Avg 434 HRs 388 2Bs 1404 RBIs 457 BBs 1273 Ks .343 OBP .561 SLG .904 OPS

Juan hit higher average, less RBIs, WAY less walks, on-base less often, way less doubles...


i win.

Jesus. Luis had over 2600 more at bats. How much weight do you think having 35 more career RBI's holds? Lol. And slugging and OPS are both waaaaaay better stats than OBP, and Juan holds quite healthy advantages in those (way bigger discrepancies than Luis' small advantage on OBP, which, like I said, is way less important anyways)- which take doubles into account. About the only thing Luis was better at was walks. Juan won 2 MVP's to Luis' 0. Also, do you deny that Juan was no worse than the 3rd best player of the entire decade of the 90's, or are you gonna disagree with that too???

Ken Griffey Jr,
Barry Bonds
Frank Thomas.

Next subject.

I think Juan Gonzalez is likely better than Frank Thomas. But even if he's not, how many others can you name? The bottom line is he was ONE of the best players of the 90's (I think he may have had more extra base hits than anyone else in that span). It's not like you can say the same about a stretch that long for Jeter. Can we not agree on that?

Backtracking now? Thomas had top 7 MVP's 7 times in the 90s. Gonzalez 3 times. You are wrong again. Next subject.

YOU'RE talking about backtracking? The man who went out of his way to say Jeter would have been the best player and NOT just hitter on several teams, then listing teams saying he would be the best position player for them? Ok smart guy, so where do you rank Gonzalez amongst the best players of the 90's?

Also, btw, I love how NOW you're willing to call Thomas a top-3 players of the 90's but still claimed Jeter would be the best player in White Sox history. Contradiction, much?

At least you recognize that I am smart. Sorry but I cannot reciprocate.

Lol, way to actually respond to the points at hand. Why don't you answer the question, where do you rank Gonzalez amonst the best players of the 90's? It doesn't matter if it's 1st, it doesn't matter if it's 2nd, it doesn't matter if it's 4th. All that matters is that whatever it is, you can't say something similar about Jeter for a similar stretch.

I would put Jeter ahead of Gonzalez for an ENTIRE career given everything that it takes to be a ballplayer and not just the ability to hit the ball out of the park. All you care about is power stats. You dont seem to care that he was a marginal outfielder at best who DH'd about 1 out of every 4 games. OR.. that he was slow and only stole 26 bases in 17 seasons while getting caught 19 times. OR.. that he was near the top in hitting into DPs several times. OR.. that he was washed up by the time he was 33. OR.. that he played a corner OF position where it is MUCH easier to find a power hitter than at SS.

For a power hitter with no other redeeming features it is surprising that Juan Gonzalez NEVER - REPEAT NEVER finished in the top 3 in OPS in any season. So. in summary... NO speed, Bad defense, No longevity, No titles, NEVER top 3 in OPS. Oh wait.. it gets better. Jeter top 6 in WAR 6 times in his career. Juan Gonzalez.. 0 ( ZERO, NADA, NIL, ZIP, NEVER) times. Well.. he did finish 9th once!The defense rests!

And Jeter's last good year was when he was at the WAAAY older age of..........drumroll...........34. AGAIN, longevity only carries so much weight. Being good for a million years is not as impressive as being dominant for a shorter period of time. That's why no one thinks Ricky Proehl was a better receiver than Sterling Sharpe. The key way to truly gauge how great someone is at something, you look at how they did at their best and so you gotta put a little more emphasis on the best FEW years of each. And Jeter at his best was nowhere near Juan Gon at his. I also care about far more than power stats. I bet I hold Stan Musial in higher esteem than you do, and he never even hit 40 dingers in a season. Jose Reyes is slugging .529 right now with an OPS of .927 and he has just 3 homers. Shane Victorino is another example. When I look at slugging, it's not just because great POWER players have great sugging %'s...it's because great players period do. Jeter was definitely a better fielder, it's not like there's plays that happen all the time that Jeter would make that the average big league shortstop couldn't. The GREAT, OVERWHELMING majority of balls hit are gonna be a basehit regardless of who's fielding or an out regardless of who's fielding. And though Jeter is obviously also a better basestealer, it's not like he's Rickey Henderson- he averages under 20 per season. As for the titles, you never respond to what I say about that, but this is copy and pasted from before: it's irrelevant when comparing players because teams win championships. So if you want to compare the YANKEES with the BLUE JAYS, then yes, the Yankees>Blue Jays. That doesn't make Jeter>Delgado. Is Horry>Jordan? You seem to ignore the INDIVIDUAL accolades that guys like Bagwell and Thomas and Gonzalez have acquired such as MVP and just seem to be focusing on team accomplishments. It's not like Delgado would have no rings if he were fortunate enough to play with the Yankees during those years, nor would Jeter have any rings if he played for the Blue Jays.

Jeter.. 6 times top 6 in WAR
Gonzalez ZERO

And.. you hold Musial in higher regard than I do? Really? THats f**king hilarious given that I have never made a comment on Stan Musial to you .

Face it.. you only know how to look at stats and dont know much about baseball. It is abundantly clear. I'm done wasting my time on anyone this clueless on the game. Anyone who ACTUALLY thinks Carlos Delgado was a better player than Derek Jeter has zero idea of what makes a great baseball player. However, you do know that Ricky Proehl wasnt as good as Sterling Sharpe. Congratulations on that.
HOw is it possible that this thread got to Juan Gonzalez being a top 3 player, from ANY decade??? Really?? REALLY?
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
atleast Michael Young is a way better comp then Juan Gonzalez.

Juan Gonzalez haha

Uhhhhh.......

first off, if ur gonna use stats, atleast use baseball reference.

Do you still think Jeter>Gonzalez?

I could make an argument that Luis Gonzalez is better than Juan Gonzalez.

LOL. No you can't. I can't believe how little love all you guys are giving him. If he's not the best player of the entire decade of the 90's, he's certainly no worse than 2nd or 3rd. He won 2 MVP's. And he did it all for the one squad. And you guys are acting like I just said Jim Druckenmiller>Joe Montana. I just don't get it.


Luis - .283 Avg 354 HRs 596 2Bs 1439 RBIs 1155 BBs 1218 Ks .367 OBP .479 SLG .845 OPS

Juan -.295 Avg 434 HRs 388 2Bs 1404 RBIs 457 BBs 1273 Ks .343 OBP .561 SLG .904 OPS

Juan hit higher average, less RBIs, WAY less walks, on-base less often, way less doubles...


i win.

Jesus. Luis had over 2600 more at bats. How much weight do you think having 35 more career RBI's holds? Lol. And slugging and OPS are both waaaaaay better stats than OBP, and Juan holds quite healthy advantages in those (way bigger discrepancies than Luis' small advantage on OBP, which, like I said, is way less important anyways)- which take doubles into account. About the only thing Luis was better at was walks. Juan won 2 MVP's to Luis' 0. Also, do you deny that Juan was no worse than the 3rd best player of the entire decade of the 90's, or are you gonna disagree with that too???

Ken Griffey Jr,
Barry Bonds
Frank Thomas.

Next subject.

I think Juan Gonzalez is likely better than Frank Thomas. But even if he's not, how many others can you name? The bottom line is he was ONE of the best players of the 90's (I think he may have had more extra base hits than anyone else in that span). It's not like you can say the same about a stretch that long for Jeter. Can we not agree on that?

Backtracking now? Thomas had top 7 MVP's 7 times in the 90s. Gonzalez 3 times. You are wrong again. Next subject.

YOU'RE talking about backtracking? The man who went out of his way to say Jeter would have been the best player and NOT just hitter on several teams, then listing teams saying he would be the best position player for them? Ok smart guy, so where do you rank Gonzalez amongst the best players of the 90's?

Also, btw, I love how NOW you're willing to call Thomas a top-3 players of the 90's but still claimed Jeter would be the best player in White Sox history. Contradiction, much?

At least you recognize that I am smart. Sorry but I cannot reciprocate.

Lol, way to actually respond to the points at hand. Why don't you answer the question, where do you rank Gonzalez amonst the best players of the 90's? It doesn't matter if it's 1st, it doesn't matter if it's 2nd, it doesn't matter if it's 4th. All that matters is that whatever it is, you can't say something similar about Jeter for a similar stretch.

I would put Jeter ahead of Gonzalez for an ENTIRE career given everything that it takes to be a ballplayer and not just the ability to hit the ball out of the park. All you care about is power stats. You dont seem to care that he was a marginal outfielder at best who DH'd about 1 out of every 4 games. OR.. that he was slow and only stole 26 bases in 17 seasons while getting caught 19 times. OR.. that he was near the top in hitting into DPs several times. OR.. that he was washed up by the time he was 33. OR.. that he played a corner OF position where it is MUCH easier to find a power hitter than at SS.

For a power hitter with no other redeeming features it is surprising that Juan Gonzalez NEVER - REPEAT NEVER finished in the top 3 in OPS in any season. So. in summary... NO speed, Bad defense, No longevity, No titles, NEVER top 3 in OPS. Oh wait.. it gets better. Jeter top 6 in WAR 6 times in his career. Juan Gonzalez.. 0 ( ZERO, NADA, NIL, ZIP, NEVER) times. Well.. he did finish 9th once!The defense rests!

And Jeter's last good year was when he was at the WAAAY older age of..........drumroll...........34. AGAIN, longevity only carries so much weight. Being good for a million years is not as impressive as being dominant for a shorter period of time. That's why no one thinks Ricky Proehl was a better receiver than Sterling Sharpe. The key way to truly gauge how great someone is at something, you look at how they did at their best and so you gotta put a little more emphasis on the best FEW years of each. And Jeter at his best was nowhere near Juan Gon at his. I also care about far more than power stats. I bet I hold Stan Musial in higher esteem than you do, and he never even hit 40 dingers in a season. Jose Reyes is slugging .529 right now with an OPS of .927 and he has just 3 homers. Shane Victorino is another example. When I look at slugging, it's not just because great POWER players have great sugging %'s...it's because great players period do. Jeter was definitely a better fielder, it's not like there's plays that happen all the time that Jeter would make that the average big league shortstop couldn't. The GREAT, OVERWHELMING majority of balls hit are gonna be a basehit regardless of who's fielding or an out regardless of who's fielding. And though Jeter is obviously also a better basestealer, it's not like he's Rickey Henderson- he averages under 20 per season. As for the titles, you never respond to what I say about that, but this is copy and pasted from before: it's irrelevant when comparing players because teams win championships. So if you want to compare the YANKEES with the BLUE JAYS, then yes, the Yankees>Blue Jays. That doesn't make Jeter>Delgado. Is Horry>Jordan? You seem to ignore the INDIVIDUAL accolades that guys like Bagwell and Thomas and Gonzalez have acquired such as MVP and just seem to be focusing on team accomplishments. It's not like Delgado would have no rings if he were fortunate enough to play with the Yankees during those years, nor would Jeter have any rings if he played for the Blue Jays.

Jeter.. 6 times top 6 in WAR
Gonzalez ZERO

And.. you hold Musial in higher regard than I do? Really? THats f**king hilarious given that I have never made a comment on Stan Musial to you .

Face it.. you only know how to look at stats and dont know much about baseball. It is abundantly clear. I'm done wasting my time on anyone this clueless on the game. Anyone who ACTUALLY thinks Carlos Delgado was a better player than Derek Jeter has zero idea of what makes a great baseball player. However, you do know that Ricky Proehl wasnt as good as Sterling Sharpe. Congratulations on that.

Gonzalez...2 times MVP
Jeter...ZERO

My Musial comment was to prove that I don't only value homers or whatever. And face it- this is baseball. Stats DO tell virtually the whole story. You just seem to be looking at titles and fluff that has nothing to do with individual prowess. Like I said, do you think Delgado would be ringless if he played all those years for the Yankees? Do you think Jeter WOULDN'T be ringless if he played all those years in Toronto? Again, Robert Horry is not better than Michael Jordan because of titles. You wanna say NYY>TOR, fine. That does NOT mean Jete was better than Delgado. And he DEFINITELY wasn't better than Gonzalez.
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