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Is D.Jeter the greatest Yankee of all time?

Sorry Andes i'm jumped out for awhile... With all of the guys you have named (Delgado, Wright, Walker, etc...), I don't think you would find 1 expert/analyst to agree with you. Even the other guys like bagwell and thomas, I think most experts would take Jeter. This probably pisses you off, but if someone had to pick one of these guys to have on a team, I think they would go with Jeter. Stats tell a good amount of the story but to me the stats get people talking about the HOF. The rest of it is intangibles, longevity, leadership, etc... it is hard to judge. Jeter without a doubt has all those things and it's why people talk so highly of him. You don't even need to guess that Jeter is a HOFer. But someone like Jim Thome they debate even though he has tons of HR's and RBI's. It's not all about the stats.
Originally posted by jacklegniner:
Sorry Andes i'm jumped out for awhile... With all of the guys you have named (Delgado, Wright, Walker, etc...), I don't think you would find 1 expert/analyst to agree with you. Even the other guys like bagwell and thomas, I think most experts would take Jeter. This probably pisses you off, but if someone had to pick one of these guys to have on a team, I think they would go with Jeter. Stats tell a good amount of the story but to me the stats get people talking about the HOF. The rest of it is intangibles, longevity, leadership, etc... it is hard to judge. Jeter without a doubt has all those things and it's why people talk so highly of him. You don't even need to guess that Jeter is a HOFer. But someone like Jim Thome they debate even though he has tons of HR's and RBI's. It's not all about the stats.

WOW! Well said and 100% on the money.
Originally posted by jacklegniner:
Sorry Andes i'm jumped out for awhile... With all of the guys you have named (Delgado, Wright, Walker, etc...), I don't think you would find 1 expert/analyst to agree with you. Even the other guys like bagwell and thomas, I think most experts would take Jeter. This probably pisses you off, but if someone had to pick one of these guys to have on a team, I think they would go with Jeter. Stats tell a good amount of the story but to me the stats get people talking about the HOF. The rest of it is intangibles, longevity, leadership, etc... it is hard to judge. Jeter without a doubt has all those things and it's why people talk so highly of him. You don't even need to guess that Jeter is a HOFer. But someone like Jim Thome they debate even though he has tons of HR's and RBI's. It's not all about the stats.

It is mostly about stats. But HR's and RBI's are not all stats. I think Stan Musial is one of the 3-5 best players ever and he never hit 40 homers in a season. RBI's is skewed anyways because people who have better players in front of them have more RBI chances. But that's why slugging is a very good statistic. Total bases per at bat. Takes into account how often you get hits and how often you get extra base hits and gives you credit accordingly since, you know, HR>triple>double>single (OPS is a good one too because it takes into account walks, but the only flaw is that grounding into fielders choices or reaching because of an error boosts it). Jeter lovers just don't like it because it doesn't work in their favor. And I already acknowledged all the other stuff. Wright, like I said for Tulowitzki, is for WHEN THEY'RE done. Walker is unquestionably better. And how can you say Delgado isn't? The intangibles/leadership is BS- I'm talking about objective stuff- not fluff. No one would praise Jeter for his almighty leadership if he played in Toronto and never won a ring like Delgado. As for longevity, again, like I said, I believe being good for a million years is not as impressive as being dominant for a shorter amount of time. That's why no one thinks Ricky Proehl>Sterling Sharpe.
[ Edited by andes14 on Jul 11, 2011 at 4:12 PM ]
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
atleast Michael Young is a way better comp then Juan Gonzalez.

Juan Gonzalez haha

Uhhhhh.......

first off, if ur gonna use stats, atleast use baseball reference.

Do you still think Jeter>Gonzalez?

I could make an argument that Luis Gonzalez is better than Juan Gonzalez.

LOL. No you can't. I can't believe how little love all you guys are giving him. If he's not the best player of the entire decade of the 90's, he's certainly no worse than 2nd or 3rd. He won 2 MVP's. And he did it all for the one squad. And you guys are acting like I just said Jim Druckenmiller>Joe Montana. I just don't get it.
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by jacklegniner:
Sorry Andes i'm jumped out for awhile... With all of the guys you have named (Delgado, Wright, Walker, etc...), I don't think you would find 1 expert/analyst to agree with you. Even the other guys like bagwell and thomas, I think most experts would take Jeter. This probably pisses you off, but if someone had to pick one of these guys to have on a team, I think they would go with Jeter. Stats tell a good amount of the story but to me the stats get people talking about the HOF. The rest of it is intangibles, longevity, leadership, etc... it is hard to judge. Jeter without a doubt has all those things and it's why people talk so highly of him. You don't even need to guess that Jeter is a HOFer. But someone like Jim Thome they debate even though he has tons of HR's and RBI's. It's not all about the stats.

WOW! Well said and 100% on the money.

I don't disagree that people would probably take Jeter over Frank Thomas or Jeff Bagwell (power hitting 1B are a dime-a-dozen), but I think there's at least argument for the fact that Jeter wouldn't be the best player in their history, considering the odds of him winning a ring with either of those teams is considerably lower than the Yankees no doubt about it.
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
atleast Michael Young is a way better comp then Juan Gonzalez.

Juan Gonzalez haha

Uhhhhh.......

first off, if ur gonna use stats, atleast use baseball reference.

Do you still think Jeter>Gonzalez?

I could make an argument that Luis Gonzalez is better than Juan Gonzalez.

LOL. No you can't. I can't believe how little love all you guys are giving him. If he's not the best player of the entire decade of the 90's, he's certainly no worse than 2nd or 3rd. He won 2 MVP's. And he did it all for the one squad. And you guys are acting like I just said Jim Druckenmiller>Joe Montana. I just don't get it.

Now you're on to something.
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
atleast Michael Young is a way better comp then Juan Gonzalez.

Juan Gonzalez haha

Uhhhhh.......

first off, if ur gonna use stats, atleast use baseball reference.

Do you still think Jeter>Gonzalez?

I could make an argument that Luis Gonzalez is better than Juan Gonzalez.

LOL. No you can't. I can't believe how little love all you guys are giving him. If he's not the best player of the entire decade of the 90's, he's certainly no worse than 2nd or 3rd. He won 2 MVP's. And he did it all for the one squad. And you guys are acting like I just said Jim Druckenmiller>Joe Montana. I just don't get it.

Now you're on to something.

So you think Jeter>Juan Gonzalez too? Unbelievable.

Who have I claimed is better than Jeter that you disagree with, and why? Keep in mind my position regarding G. Anderson is just that his 3-5 best seasons MAY be better than Jeter's 3-5 best which you have failed to respond to whether or not you agree, and why.
[ Edited by andes14 on Jul 11, 2011 at 4:18 PM ]
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
atleast Michael Young is a way better comp then Juan Gonzalez.

Juan Gonzalez haha

Uhhhhh.......

first off, if ur gonna use stats, atleast use baseball reference.

Do you still think Jeter>Gonzalez?

I could make an argument that Luis Gonzalez is better than Juan Gonzalez.

LOL. No you can't. I can't believe how little love all you guys are giving him. If he's not the best player of the entire decade of the 90's, he's certainly no worse than 2nd or 3rd. He won 2 MVP's. And he did it all for the one squad. And you guys are acting like I just said Jim Druckenmiller>Joe Montana. I just don't get it.


Luis - .283 Avg 354 HRs 596 2Bs 1439 RBIs 1155 BBs 1218 Ks .367 OBP .479 SLG .845 OPS

Juan -.295 Avg 434 HRs 388 2Bs 1404 RBIs 457 BBs 1273 Ks .343 OBP .561 SLG .904 OPS

Juan hit higher average, less RBIs, WAY less walks, on-base less often, way less doubles...


i win.
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
atleast Michael Young is a way better comp then Juan Gonzalez.

Juan Gonzalez haha

Uhhhhh.......

first off, if ur gonna use stats, atleast use baseball reference.

Do you still think Jeter>Gonzalez?

I could make an argument that Luis Gonzalez is better than Juan Gonzalez.

LOL. No you can't. I can't believe how little love all you guys are giving him. If he's not the best player of the entire decade of the 90's, he's certainly no worse than 2nd or 3rd. He won 2 MVP's. And he did it all for the one squad. And you guys are acting like I just said Jim Druckenmiller>Joe Montana. I just don't get it.

Now you're on to something.

So you think Jeter>Juan Gonzalez too? Unbelievable.

Who have I claimed is better than Jeter that you disagree with, and why? Keep in mind my position regarding G. Anderson is just that his 3-5 best seasons MAY be better than Jeter's 3-5 best which you have failed to respond to whether or not you agree, and why.

you are comparing a 2 hole hitting, sometimes leadoff man, to a power hitting cleanup hitter, whos job is to drive in runs. Jeters job is to get on base.

apples to oranges.
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
atleast Michael Young is a way better comp then Juan Gonzalez.

Juan Gonzalez haha

Uhhhhh.......

first off, if ur gonna use stats, atleast use baseball reference.

Do you still think Jeter>Gonzalez?

I could make an argument that Luis Gonzalez is better than Juan Gonzalez.

LOL. No you can't. I can't believe how little love all you guys are giving him. If he's not the best player of the entire decade of the 90's, he's certainly no worse than 2nd or 3rd. He won 2 MVP's. And he did it all for the one squad. And you guys are acting like I just said Jim Druckenmiller>Joe Montana. I just don't get it.

Now you're on to something.

BINGO!!!!!! Pete is always the man of reason.
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
atleast Michael Young is a way better comp then Juan Gonzalez.

Juan Gonzalez haha

Uhhhhh.......

first off, if ur gonna use stats, atleast use baseball reference.

Do you still think Jeter>Gonzalez?

I could make an argument that Luis Gonzalez is better than Juan Gonzalez.

LOL. No you can't. I can't believe how little love all you guys are giving him. If he's not the best player of the entire decade of the 90's, he's certainly no worse than 2nd or 3rd. He won 2 MVP's. And he did it all for the one squad. And you guys are acting like I just said Jim Druckenmiller>Joe Montana. I just don't get it.

Now you're on to something.

BINGO!!!!!! Pete is always the man of reason.

It's his intangibles.
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
atleast Michael Young is a way better comp then Juan Gonzalez.

Juan Gonzalez haha

Uhhhhh.......

first off, if ur gonna use stats, atleast use baseball reference.

Do you still think Jeter>Gonzalez?

I could make an argument that Luis Gonzalez is better than Juan Gonzalez.

LOL. No you can't. I can't believe how little love all you guys are giving him. If he's not the best player of the entire decade of the 90's, he's certainly no worse than 2nd or 3rd. He won 2 MVP's. And he did it all for the one squad. And you guys are acting like I just said Jim Druckenmiller>Joe Montana. I just don't get it.


Luis - .283 Avg 354 HRs 596 2Bs 1439 RBIs 1155 BBs 1218 Ks .367 OBP .479 SLG .845 OPS

Juan -.295 Avg 434 HRs 388 2Bs 1404 RBIs 457 BBs 1273 Ks .343 OBP .561 SLG .904 OPS

Juan hit higher average, less RBIs, WAY less walks, on-base less often, way less doubles...


i win.

Jesus. Luis had over 2600 more at bats. How much weight do you think having 35 more career RBI's holds? Lol. And slugging and OPS are both waaaaaay better stats than OBP, and Juan holds quite healthy advantages in those (way bigger discrepancies than Luis' small advantage on OBP, which, like I said, is way less important anyways)- which take doubles into account. About the only thing Luis was better at was walks. Juan won 2 MVP's to Luis' 0. Also, do you deny that Juan was no worse than the 3rd best player of the entire decade of the 90's, or are you gonna disagree with that too???
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
atleast Michael Young is a way better comp then Juan Gonzalez.

Juan Gonzalez haha

Uhhhhh.......

first off, if ur gonna use stats, atleast use baseball reference.

Do you still think Jeter>Gonzalez?

I could make an argument that Luis Gonzalez is better than Juan Gonzalez.

LOL. No you can't. I can't believe how little love all you guys are giving him. If he's not the best player of the entire decade of the 90's, he's certainly no worse than 2nd or 3rd. He won 2 MVP's. And he did it all for the one squad. And you guys are acting like I just said Jim Druckenmiller>Joe Montana. I just don't get it.


Luis - .283 Avg 354 HRs 596 2Bs 1439 RBIs 1155 BBs 1218 Ks .367 OBP .479 SLG .845 OPS

Juan -.295 Avg 434 HRs 388 2Bs 1404 RBIs 457 BBs 1273 Ks .343 OBP .561 SLG .904 OPS

Juan hit higher average, less RBIs, WAY less walks, on-base less often, way less doubles...


i win.

Jesus. Luis had over 2600 more at bats. How much weight do you think having 35 more career RBI's holds? Lol. And slugging and OPS are both waaaaaay better stats than OBP, and Juan holds quite healthy advantages in those (way bigger discrepancies than Luis' small advantage on OBP, which, like I said, is way less important anyways)- which take doubles into account. About the only thing Luis was better at was walks. Juan won 2 MVP's to Luis' 0. Also, do you deny that Juan was no worse than the 3rd best player of the entire decade of the 90's, or are you gonna disagree with that too???

Ken Griffey Jr,
Barry Bonds
Frank Thomas.

Next subject.
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
atleast Michael Young is a way better comp then Juan Gonzalez.

Juan Gonzalez haha

Uhhhhh.......

first off, if ur gonna use stats, atleast use baseball reference.

Do you still think Jeter>Gonzalez?

I could make an argument that Luis Gonzalez is better than Juan Gonzalez.

LOL. No you can't. I can't believe how little love all you guys are giving him. If he's not the best player of the entire decade of the 90's, he's certainly no worse than 2nd or 3rd. He won 2 MVP's. And he did it all for the one squad. And you guys are acting like I just said Jim Druckenmiller>Joe Montana. I just don't get it.

Now you're on to something.

So you think Jeter>Juan Gonzalez too? Unbelievable.

Who have I claimed is better than Jeter that you disagree with, and why? Keep in mind my position regarding G. Anderson is just that his 3-5 best seasons MAY be better than Jeter's 3-5 best which you have failed to respond to whether or not you agree, and why.

you are comparing a 2 hole hitting, sometimes leadoff man, to a power hitting cleanup hitter, whos job is to drive in runs. Jeters job is to get on base.

apples to oranges.

Does the fact that he won 2 MVP's and was the best player (or 2nd or 3rd) of the 90's hold no weight to you?
again, its apples to oranges.