Originally posted by andes14:Originally posted by Ninerjohn:Originally posted by LA9erFan:Originally posted by itlynstalyn:Originally posted by LA9erFan:Originally posted by Niners99:Originally posted by Ninerjohn:Originally posted by itlynstalyn:Originally posted by LundyLove:
if he was on the reds he would be Barry larkin
This. He'll always be a top tier shortstop (probably in the top 5-10 of all-time) in my mind and a shoe-in hall-of-famer, but best Yankee in history? Very doubtful. He had the benefit of being on great teams with $100+ million payrolls most of his entire career, but he still contributed and came through in a ridiculously tough market. I don't like Jeter mainly because I hate the Yankees, but I respect his ability as a player.
I agree with this.
Best SS in Yankee history - without question
Top 5 SS of all time - I would say YES
First Ballot HOF - Of course
Overrated - Only to the those who dont get it.
Top Yankee Ever... only if we wipe out Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Joe Dimaggio, and
Mickey Mantle from the records.
Alex Rodriguez, Honus Wagner, Cal Ripken Jr., and Ernie Banks are the only real legendary SS, so being 5th, he beats our Barry Larkin and Ozzie Smith?
the fact that he was a top 5 SS is impressive, but that 5th spot was kind of open for the taking.
i agree with most of the rest. You keep harping on how he isnt overrated. he CAN be overrated, depending on where people rate him. if people say hes a solid HOF SS, that isnt overrated. when people say hes right up there with Mantle and DiMaggio, that IS overrated.
and i would say Yogi Berra was a better player also among Yankees. Reggie Jackson easily, but that depends on if you view his stint there as long enough. he did win them a couple WS. among just Yankee position players, hes top 8, but thats as high as im willing to go. theres still a couple guys who didnt play there as long, but whos whole career still match up like Wade Boggs and Dave Winfield.
among everyone for all time Yankees?
Ruth, Gehrig, Mantle, DiMaggio, Berra, Jackson, Ford, Jeter is where id probably rank him.
I'm curious as to why Cal Ripken is considered "legendary", but Jeter isn't.
I think that Wagner and Rodriguez (who along with Banks will probably finish his career playing more games at a different position) are a cut above all other SS's, but after you probably have Banks as the clear #3 guy, and Ripken, Jeter, Arky Vaughn, Smith, & Larkin all jumbled together after that. There's no way Ripken's a cut above those other guys.
Cal was a good defender, has 3000 hits and 400+ HR's and all while playing his entire career on s**tty Orioles teams. 19 All Star games, 2 league MVP's, 8 silver sluggers, 2 gold gloves and has the iron man record, which could probably be argued as one of the hardest records to break at the moment. Dude was definitely a legend in my eyes.
I'm not necessarily arguing with his resume, I'm just saying that if you consider him to be a legend, I think you have to consider a couple of others the same way, with Jeter being one of them. I don't think he belongs in the same category as A-Rod & Wagner, and I don't think he's a cut above the others I mentioned either. His career OPS+ is 112, which is the lowest amongst the guy's we're discussing, aside from Ozzie Smith, obviously.
He broke a streak that required unparalleled endurance, but I think that's overly weighted when discussing what kind of player he was.
OPS only measures hitters and if anyone ever said that Jeter was among the top 10 greatest hitters of all time ... well then they WOULD be overrating him. Jeter has been a great all round player that could field, hit, run, and be a leader on his team. Plus, he played in the highest pressure organization in all of professional sports. He isnt the greatest Yankee ever obviously but he would be the greatest player(not just hitter) for several organizations in my opinion. I would put him on the same level as Ripken.
Name one, other than the Rays who have barely been around.
Angels ( close with Carew)
Indians ( position player anyway - Feller might be #1)
Blue Jays ( please tell me Carlos Delgado again. That cracks me up)
Diamondbacks ( without question top position player and RJ only played 6 yrs)
Rockies ( Oh ya.. LArry Walker is your choice - the I will never make the HOF guy)
Padres (close with Gywnn)
Mets ( would be greatest postion player)
Marlins ( not even close)