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Is D.Jeter the greatest Yankee of all time?

Originally posted by DaManRathman:
Jeter is great, but he's no Michael Young!

Michael Young - Working on his 11th season
.301 1964 hits 372 2Bs 166 homers 870 RBIS .450 slugging

Derek Jeter - working on his 17th season
.313 3004 hits 481 2Bs 237 homers 1159 rbis .449 slugging

just saying.
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by itlynstalyn:
Originally posted by LundyLove:
if he was on the reds he would be Barry larkin

This. He'll always be a top tier shortstop (probably in the top 5-10 of all-time) in my mind and a shoe-in hall-of-famer, but best Yankee in history? Very doubtful. He had the benefit of being on great teams with $100+ million payrolls most of his entire career, but he still contributed and came through in a ridiculously tough market. I don't like Jeter mainly because I hate the Yankees, but I respect his ability as a player.

I agree with this.

Best SS in Yankee history - without question
Top 5 SS of all time - I would say YES
First Ballot HOF - Of course
Overrated - Only to the those who dont get it.
Top Yankee Ever... only if we wipe out Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Joe Dimaggio, and
Mickey Mantle from the records.

Alex Rodriguez, Honus Wagner, Cal Ripken Jr., and Ernie Banks are the only real legendary SS, so being 5th, he beats our Barry Larkin and Ozzie Smith?

the fact that he was a top 5 SS is impressive, but that 5th spot was kind of open for the taking.

i agree with most of the rest. You keep harping on how he isnt overrated. he CAN be overrated, depending on where people rate him. if people say hes a solid HOF SS, that isnt overrated. when people say hes right up there with Mantle and DiMaggio, that IS overrated.

and i would say Yogi Berra was a better player also among Yankees. Reggie Jackson easily, but that depends on if you view his stint there as long enough. he did win them a couple WS. among just Yankee position players, hes top 8, but thats as high as im willing to go. theres still a couple guys who didnt play there as long, but whos whole career still match up like Wade Boggs and Dave Winfield.

among everyone for all time Yankees?

Ruth, Gehrig, Mantle, DiMaggio, Berra, Jackson, Ford, Jeter is where id probably rank him.
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by Ether:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
I think you are looking too deep into what overrated means.

ESPN will lead you to believe that Jeter is the greatest player ever. Hes all over tv constantly, they always talk about him. I know more about Jeter than i do about Pablo Sandoval! and its not by choice!!

You said is he top 5 all time? your answer was that you would say yes. ESPN has me believing he is the best of all time!

Thats what im saying when i say overrated. Hes rated daily over what he is. Overrated.

OVERRATED doesnt mean NOT GOOD.

Hes been very good i know. But hes not as good as hes portrayed.

You're mad because he's covered on TV? Would you rather them do segments on players that are dead or retired instead of players that just recently got his 3000th hit?

I understand right now why hes all over tv but hes ALWAYS on tv. ALWAYS

Even during Giants games on ESPN, all they were talking about was Jeter, the Shadows and Jeter.
Originally posted by itlynstalyn:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by Ether:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
I think you are looking too deep into what overrated means.

ESPN will lead you to believe that Jeter is the greatest player ever. Hes all over tv constantly, they always talk about him. I know more about Jeter than i do about Pablo Sandoval! and its not by choice!!

You said is he top 5 all time? your answer was that you would say yes. ESPN has me believing he is the best of all time!

Thats what im saying when i say overrated. Hes rated daily over what he is. Overrated.

OVERRATED doesnt mean NOT GOOD.

Hes been very good i know. But hes not as good as hes portrayed.

You're mad because he's covered on TV? Would you rather them do segments on players that are dead or retired instead of players that just recently got his 3000th hit?

I understand right now why hes all over tv but hes ALWAYS on tv. ALWAYS

Even during Giants games on ESPN, all they were talking about was Jeter, the Shadows and Jeter.

and i cant stand Bobby Valentine. And he sounds like Kermit
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by itlynstalyn:
Originally posted by LundyLove:
if he was on the reds he would be Barry larkin

This. He'll always be a top tier shortstop (probably in the top 5-10 of all-time) in my mind and a shoe-in hall-of-famer, but best Yankee in history? Very doubtful. He had the benefit of being on great teams with $100+ million payrolls most of his entire career, but he still contributed and came through in a ridiculously tough market. I don't like Jeter mainly because I hate the Yankees, but I respect his ability as a player.

I agree with this.

Best SS in Yankee history - without question
Top 5 SS of all time - I would say YES
First Ballot HOF - Of course
Overrated - Only to the those who dont get it.
Top Yankee Ever... only if we wipe out Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Joe Dimaggio, and
Mickey Mantle from the records.

Alex Rodriguez, Honus Wagner, Cal Ripken Jr., and Ernie Banks are the only real legendary SS, so being 5th, he beats our Barry Larkin and Ozzie Smith?

the fact that he was a top 5 SS is impressive, but that 5th spot was kind of open for the taking.

i agree with most of the rest. You keep harping on how he isnt overrated. he CAN be overrated, depending on where people rate him. if people say hes a solid HOF SS, that isnt overrated. when people say hes right up there with Mantle and DiMaggio, that IS overrated.

and i would say Yogi Berra was a better player also among Yankees. Reggie Jackson easily, but that depends on if you view his stint there as long enough. he did win them a couple WS. among just Yankee position players, hes top 8, but thats as high as im willing to go. theres still a couple guys who didnt play there as long, but whos whole career still match up like Wade Boggs and Dave Winfield.

among everyone for all time Yankees?

Ruth, Gehrig, Mantle, DiMaggio, Berra, Jackson, Ford, Jeter is where id probably rank him.

I'm curious as to why Cal Ripken is considered "legendary", but Jeter isn't.

I think that Wagner and Rodriguez (who along with Banks will probably finish his career playing more games at a different position) are a cut above all other SS's, but after you probably have Banks as the clear #3 guy, and Ripken, Jeter, Arky Vaughn, Smith, & Larkin all jumbled together after that. There's no way Ripken's a cut above those other guys.
[ Edited by LA9erFan on Jul 11, 2011 at 12:42 PM ]
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by itlynstalyn:
Originally posted by LundyLove:
if he was on the reds he would be Barry larkin

This. He'll always be a top tier shortstop (probably in the top 5-10 of all-time) in my mind and a shoe-in hall-of-famer, but best Yankee in history? Very doubtful. He had the benefit of being on great teams with $100+ million payrolls most of his entire career, but he still contributed and came through in a ridiculously tough market. I don't like Jeter mainly because I hate the Yankees, but I respect his ability as a player.

I agree with this.

Best SS in Yankee history - without question
Top 5 SS of all time - I would say YES
First Ballot HOF - Of course
Overrated - Only to the those who dont get it.
Top Yankee Ever... only if we wipe out Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Joe Dimaggio, and
Mickey Mantle from the records.

Alex Rodriguez, Honus Wagner, Cal Ripken Jr., and Ernie Banks are the only real legendary SS, so being 5th, he beats our Barry Larkin and Ozzie Smith?

the fact that he was a top 5 SS is impressive, but that 5th spot was kind of open for the taking.

i agree with most of the rest. You keep harping on how he isnt overrated. he CAN be overrated, depending on where people rate him. if people say hes a solid HOF SS, that isnt overrated. when people say hes right up there with Mantle and DiMaggio, that IS overrated.

and i would say Yogi Berra was a better player also among Yankees. Reggie Jackson easily, but that depends on if you view his stint there as long enough. he did win them a couple WS. among just Yankee position players, hes top 8, but thats as high as im willing to go. theres still a couple guys who didnt play there as long, but whos whole career still match up like Wade Boggs and Dave Winfield.

among everyone for all time Yankees?

Ruth, Gehrig, Mantle, DiMaggio, Berra, Jackson, Ford, Jeter is where id probably rank him.

I'm curious as to why Cal Ripken is considered "legendary", but Jeter isn't.

I think that Wagner and Rodriguez (who along with Banks will probably finish his career playing more games at a different position) are a cut above all other SS's, but after you probably have Banks as the clear #3 guy, and Ripken, Jeter, Arky Vaughn, Smith, & Larkin all jumbled together after that. There's no way Ripken's a cut above those other guys.

Cal was a good defender, has 3000 hits and 400+ HR's and all while playing his entire career on s**tty Orioles teams. 19 All Star games, 2 league MVP's, 8 silver sluggers, 2 gold gloves and has the iron man record, which could probably be argued as one of the hardest records to break at the moment. Dude was definitely a legend in my eyes.
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by DaManRathman:
Jeter is great, but he's no Michael Young!

Michael Young - Working on his 11th season
.301 1964 hits 372 2Bs 166 homers 870 RBIS .450 slugging

Derek Jeter - working on his 17th season
.313 3004 hits 481 2Bs 237 homers 1159 rbis .449 slugging

just saying.

Michael Young is a very good hitter. Jeter has been better but Young is damned good. However, thats where any comparison stops. Michael Young will never be the player that Derick Jeter was in his prime years.
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by itlynstalyn:
Originally posted by LundyLove:
if he was on the reds he would be Barry larkin

This. He'll always be a top tier shortstop (probably in the top 5-10 of all-time) in my mind and a shoe-in hall-of-famer, but best Yankee in history? Very doubtful. He had the benefit of being on great teams with $100+ million payrolls most of his entire career, but he still contributed and came through in a ridiculously tough market. I don't like Jeter mainly because I hate the Yankees, but I respect his ability as a player.

I agree with this.

Best SS in Yankee history - without question
Top 5 SS of all time - I would say YES
First Ballot HOF - Of course
Overrated - Only to the those who dont get it.
Top Yankee Ever... only if we wipe out Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Joe Dimaggio, and
Mickey Mantle from the records.

Alex Rodriguez, Honus Wagner, Cal Ripken Jr., and Ernie Banks are the only real legendary SS, so being 5th, he beats our Barry Larkin and Ozzie Smith?

the fact that he was a top 5 SS is impressive, but that 5th spot was kind of open for the taking.

i agree with most of the rest. You keep harping on how he isnt overrated. he CAN be overrated, depending on where people rate him. if people say hes a solid HOF SS, that isnt overrated. when people say hes right up there with Mantle and DiMaggio, that IS overrated.

and i would say Yogi Berra was a better player also among Yankees. Reggie Jackson easily, but that depends on if you view his stint there as long enough. he did win them a couple WS. among just Yankee position players, hes top 8, but thats as high as im willing to go. theres still a couple guys who didnt play there as long, but whos whole career still match up like Wade Boggs and Dave Winfield.

among everyone for all time Yankees?

Ruth, Gehrig, Mantle, DiMaggio, Berra, Jackson, Ford, Jeter is where id probably rank him.

Id take A-Rod out cause of the Roids

Pisses me off that people always exclude Bonds when they talk about great players just because he took roids but they still include A-Rod
Originally posted by itlynstalyn:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by itlynstalyn:
Originally posted by LundyLove:
if he was on the reds he would be Barry larkin

This. He'll always be a top tier shortstop (probably in the top 5-10 of all-time) in my mind and a shoe-in hall-of-famer, but best Yankee in history? Very doubtful. He had the benefit of being on great teams with $100+ million payrolls most of his entire career, but he still contributed and came through in a ridiculously tough market. I don't like Jeter mainly because I hate the Yankees, but I respect his ability as a player.

I agree with this.

Best SS in Yankee history - without question
Top 5 SS of all time - I would say YES
First Ballot HOF - Of course
Overrated - Only to the those who dont get it.
Top Yankee Ever... only if we wipe out Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Joe Dimaggio, and
Mickey Mantle from the records.

Alex Rodriguez, Honus Wagner, Cal Ripken Jr., and Ernie Banks are the only real legendary SS, so being 5th, he beats our Barry Larkin and Ozzie Smith?

the fact that he was a top 5 SS is impressive, but that 5th spot was kind of open for the taking.

i agree with most of the rest. You keep harping on how he isnt overrated. he CAN be overrated, depending on where people rate him. if people say hes a solid HOF SS, that isnt overrated. when people say hes right up there with Mantle and DiMaggio, that IS overrated.

and i would say Yogi Berra was a better player also among Yankees. Reggie Jackson easily, but that depends on if you view his stint there as long enough. he did win them a couple WS. among just Yankee position players, hes top 8, but thats as high as im willing to go. theres still a couple guys who didnt play there as long, but whos whole career still match up like Wade Boggs and Dave Winfield.

among everyone for all time Yankees?

Ruth, Gehrig, Mantle, DiMaggio, Berra, Jackson, Ford, Jeter is where id probably rank him.

I'm curious as to why Cal Ripken is considered "legendary", but Jeter isn't.

I think that Wagner and Rodriguez (who along with Banks will probably finish his career playing more games at a different position) are a cut above all other SS's, but after you probably have Banks as the clear #3 guy, and Ripken, Jeter, Arky Vaughn, Smith, & Larkin all jumbled together after that. There's no way Ripken's a cut above those other guys.

Cal was a good defender, has 3000 hits and 400+ HR's and all while playing his entire career on s**tty Orioles teams. 19 All Star games, 2 league MVP's, 8 silver sluggers, 2 gold gloves and has the iron man record, which could probably be argued as one of the hardest records to break at the moment. Dude was definitely a legend in my eyes.

I'm not necessarily arguing with his resume, I'm just saying that if you consider him to be a legend, I think you have to consider a couple of others the same way, with Jeter being one of them. I don't think he belongs in the same category as A-Rod & Wagner, and I don't think he's a cut above the others I mentioned either. His career OPS+ is 112, which is the lowest amongst the guy's we're discussing, aside from Ozzie Smith, obviously.

He broke a streak that required unparalleled endurance, but I think that's overly weighted when discussing what kind of player he was.
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by itlynstalyn:
Originally posted by LundyLove:
if he was on the reds he would be Barry larkin

This. He'll always be a top tier shortstop (probably in the top 5-10 of all-time) in my mind and a shoe-in hall-of-famer, but best Yankee in history? Very doubtful. He had the benefit of being on great teams with $100+ million payrolls most of his entire career, but he still contributed and came through in a ridiculously tough market. I don't like Jeter mainly because I hate the Yankees, but I respect his ability as a player.

I agree with this.

Best SS in Yankee history - without question
Top 5 SS of all time - I would say YES
First Ballot HOF - Of course
Overrated - Only to the those who dont get it.
Top Yankee Ever... only if we wipe out Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Joe Dimaggio, and
Mickey Mantle from the records.

Alex Rodriguez, Honus Wagner, Cal Ripken Jr., and Ernie Banks are the only real legendary SS, so being 5th, he beats our Barry Larkin and Ozzie Smith?

the fact that he was a top 5 SS is impressive, but that 5th spot was kind of open for the taking.

i agree with most of the rest. You keep harping on how he isnt overrated. he CAN be overrated, depending on where people rate him. if people say hes a solid HOF SS, that isnt overrated. when people say hes right up there with Mantle and DiMaggio, that IS overrated.

and i would say Yogi Berra was a better player also among Yankees. Reggie Jackson easily, but that depends on if you view his stint there as long enough. he did win them a couple WS. among just Yankee position players, hes top 8, but thats as high as im willing to go. theres still a couple guys who didnt play there as long, but whos whole career still match up like Wade Boggs and Dave Winfield.

among everyone for all time Yankees?

Ruth, Gehrig, Mantle, DiMaggio, Berra, Jackson, Ford, Jeter is where id probably rank him.

Ernie Banks played more games at 1b than he did at SS so its hard to list him as the "legendary SS" as you described him. AROD will also end up playing more games at 3B when its all said and done. Wagner, Ripken and Jeter will be the top 3 SS's ever to have played the game that were true SS's for their entire ( or vast majority) of their careers.
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by Ether:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
I think you are looking too deep into what overrated means.

ESPN will lead you to believe that Jeter is the greatest player ever. Hes all over tv constantly, they always talk about him. I know more about Jeter than i do about Pablo Sandoval! and its not by choice!!

You said is he top 5 all time? your answer was that you would say yes. ESPN has me believing he is the best of all time!

Thats what im saying when i say overrated. Hes rated daily over what he is. Overrated.

OVERRATED doesnt mean NOT GOOD.

Hes been very good i know. But hes not as good as hes portrayed.

You're mad because he's covered on TV? Would you rather them do segments on players that are dead or retired instead of players that just recently got his 3000th hit?

I understand right now why hes all over tv but hes ALWAYS on tv. ALWAYS

You dont think it might be - just possibly - that he was chasing 3000 hits do you? That NO Yankee had ever done it and that this might be of interest to a lot of people. You probably thought it was great when ESPN was following Bonds every night with Pedro Gomez. Star players that have interest get a LOT of attention. Joe Montanta used to get it, Tom Brady gets it, and Derek Jeter gets it too. BFD.
I guess over-rated is that you guys are just tired of hearing about him all the time. I get it if people are trying to throw him with Ruth, etc... People just try and create stories. No one is realistically ranking him there though. Just because some people bring those questions up doesn't mean he is over-rated though. 3000 hits period is an exclusive club. Think of how many great players come up way short of that mark. Even the division rival Rays came out to applaud and tip their cap because ball players just know the kind player it takes to do that. In a steriod filled era, i think it's hard to view him as over-rated.
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by itlynstalyn:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by itlynstalyn:
Originally posted by LundyLove:
if he was on the reds he would be Barry larkin

This. He'll always be a top tier shortstop (probably in the top 5-10 of all-time) in my mind and a shoe-in hall-of-famer, but best Yankee in history? Very doubtful. He had the benefit of being on great teams with $100+ million payrolls most of his entire career, but he still contributed and came through in a ridiculously tough market. I don't like Jeter mainly because I hate the Yankees, but I respect his ability as a player.

I agree with this.

Best SS in Yankee history - without question
Top 5 SS of all time - I would say YES
First Ballot HOF - Of course
Overrated - Only to the those who dont get it.
Top Yankee Ever... only if we wipe out Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Joe Dimaggio, and
Mickey Mantle from the records.

Alex Rodriguez, Honus Wagner, Cal Ripken Jr., and Ernie Banks are the only real legendary SS, so being 5th, he beats our Barry Larkin and Ozzie Smith?

the fact that he was a top 5 SS is impressive, but that 5th spot was kind of open for the taking.

i agree with most of the rest. You keep harping on how he isnt overrated. he CAN be overrated, depending on where people rate him. if people say hes a solid HOF SS, that isnt overrated. when people say hes right up there with Mantle and DiMaggio, that IS overrated.

and i would say Yogi Berra was a better player also among Yankees. Reggie Jackson easily, but that depends on if you view his stint there as long enough. he did win them a couple WS. among just Yankee position players, hes top 8, but thats as high as im willing to go. theres still a couple guys who didnt play there as long, but whos whole career still match up like Wade Boggs and Dave Winfield.

among everyone for all time Yankees?

Ruth, Gehrig, Mantle, DiMaggio, Berra, Jackson, Ford, Jeter is where id probably rank him.

I'm curious as to why Cal Ripken is considered "legendary", but Jeter isn't.

I think that Wagner and Rodriguez (who along with Banks will probably finish his career playing more games at a different position) are a cut above all other SS's, but after you probably have Banks as the clear #3 guy, and Ripken, Jeter, Arky Vaughn, Smith, & Larkin all jumbled together after that. There's no way Ripken's a cut above those other guys.

Cal was a good defender, has 3000 hits and 400+ HR's and all while playing his entire career on s**tty Orioles teams. 19 All Star games, 2 league MVP's, 8 silver sluggers, 2 gold gloves and has the iron man record, which could probably be argued as one of the hardest records to break at the moment. Dude was definitely a legend in my eyes.

I'm not necessarily arguing with his resume, I'm just saying that if you consider him to be a legend, I think you have to consider a couple of others the same way, with Jeter being one of them. I don't think he belongs in the same category as A-Rod & Wagner, and I don't think he's a cut above the others I mentioned either. His career OPS+ is 112, which is the lowest amongst the guy's we're discussing, aside from Ozzie Smith, obviously.

He broke a streak that required unparalleled endurance, but I think that's overly weighted when discussing what kind of player he was.

OPS only measures hitters and if anyone ever said that Jeter was among the top 10 greatest hitters of all time ... well then they WOULD be overrating him. Jeter has been a great all round player that could field, hit, run, and be a leader on his team. Plus, he played in the highest pressure organization in all of professional sports. He isnt the greatest Yankee ever obviously but he would be the greatest player(not just hitter) for several organizations in my opinion. I would put him on the same level as Ripken.
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by itlynstalyn:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by itlynstalyn:
Originally posted by LundyLove:
if he was on the reds he would be Barry larkin

This. He'll always be a top tier shortstop (probably in the top 5-10 of all-time) in my mind and a shoe-in hall-of-famer, but best Yankee in history? Very doubtful. He had the benefit of being on great teams with $100+ million payrolls most of his entire career, but he still contributed and came through in a ridiculously tough market. I don't like Jeter mainly because I hate the Yankees, but I respect his ability as a player.

I agree with this.

Best SS in Yankee history - without question
Top 5 SS of all time - I would say YES
First Ballot HOF - Of course
Overrated - Only to the those who dont get it.
Top Yankee Ever... only if we wipe out Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Joe Dimaggio, and
Mickey Mantle from the records.

Alex Rodriguez, Honus Wagner, Cal Ripken Jr., and Ernie Banks are the only real legendary SS, so being 5th, he beats our Barry Larkin and Ozzie Smith?

the fact that he was a top 5 SS is impressive, but that 5th spot was kind of open for the taking.

i agree with most of the rest. You keep harping on how he isnt overrated. he CAN be overrated, depending on where people rate him. if people say hes a solid HOF SS, that isnt overrated. when people say hes right up there with Mantle and DiMaggio, that IS overrated.

and i would say Yogi Berra was a better player also among Yankees. Reggie Jackson easily, but that depends on if you view his stint there as long enough. he did win them a couple WS. among just Yankee position players, hes top 8, but thats as high as im willing to go. theres still a couple guys who didnt play there as long, but whos whole career still match up like Wade Boggs and Dave Winfield.

among everyone for all time Yankees?

Ruth, Gehrig, Mantle, DiMaggio, Berra, Jackson, Ford, Jeter is where id probably rank him.

I'm curious as to why Cal Ripken is considered "legendary", but Jeter isn't.

I think that Wagner and Rodriguez (who along with Banks will probably finish his career playing more games at a different position) are a cut above all other SS's, but after you probably have Banks as the clear #3 guy, and Ripken, Jeter, Arky Vaughn, Smith, & Larkin all jumbled together after that. There's no way Ripken's a cut above those other guys.

Cal was a good defender, has 3000 hits and 400+ HR's and all while playing his entire career on s**tty Orioles teams. 19 All Star games, 2 league MVP's, 8 silver sluggers, 2 gold gloves and has the iron man record, which could probably be argued as one of the hardest records to break at the moment. Dude was definitely a legend in my eyes.

I'm not necessarily arguing with his resume, I'm just saying that if you consider him to be a legend, I think you have to consider a couple of others the same way, with Jeter being one of them. I don't think he belongs in the same category as A-Rod & Wagner, and I don't think he's a cut above the others I mentioned either. His career OPS+ is 112, which is the lowest amongst the guy's we're discussing, aside from Ozzie Smith, obviously.

He broke a streak that required unparalleled endurance, but I think that's overly weighted when discussing what kind of player he was.

OPS only measures hitters and if anyone ever said that Jeter was among the top 10 greatest hitters of all time ... well then they WOULD be overrating him. Jeter has been a great all round player that could field, hit, run, and be a leader on his team. Plus, he played in the highest pressure organization in all of professional sports. He isnt the greatest Yankee ever obviously but he would be the greatest player(not just hitter) for several organizations in my opinion. I would put him on the same level as Ripken.

Name one, other than the Rays and Marlins who have barely been around.
[ Edited by andes14 on Jul 11, 2011 at 1:29 PM ]
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by itlynstalyn:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by itlynstalyn:
Originally posted by LundyLove:
if he was on the reds he would be Barry larkin

This. He'll always be a top tier shortstop (probably in the top 5-10 of all-time) in my mind and a shoe-in hall-of-famer, but best Yankee in history? Very doubtful. He had the benefit of being on great teams with $100+ million payrolls most of his entire career, but he still contributed and came through in a ridiculously tough market. I don't like Jeter mainly because I hate the Yankees, but I respect his ability as a player.

I agree with this.

Best SS in Yankee history - without question
Top 5 SS of all time - I would say YES
First Ballot HOF - Of course
Overrated - Only to the those who dont get it.
Top Yankee Ever... only if we wipe out Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Joe Dimaggio, and
Mickey Mantle from the records.

Alex Rodriguez, Honus Wagner, Cal Ripken Jr., and Ernie Banks are the only real legendary SS, so being 5th, he beats our Barry Larkin and Ozzie Smith?

the fact that he was a top 5 SS is impressive, but that 5th spot was kind of open for the taking.

i agree with most of the rest. You keep harping on how he isnt overrated. he CAN be overrated, depending on where people rate him. if people say hes a solid HOF SS, that isnt overrated. when people say hes right up there with Mantle and DiMaggio, that IS overrated.

and i would say Yogi Berra was a better player also among Yankees. Reggie Jackson easily, but that depends on if you view his stint there as long enough. he did win them a couple WS. among just Yankee position players, hes top 8, but thats as high as im willing to go. theres still a couple guys who didnt play there as long, but whos whole career still match up like Wade Boggs and Dave Winfield.

among everyone for all time Yankees?

Ruth, Gehrig, Mantle, DiMaggio, Berra, Jackson, Ford, Jeter is where id probably rank him.

I'm curious as to why Cal Ripken is considered "legendary", but Jeter isn't.

I think that Wagner and Rodriguez (who along with Banks will probably finish his career playing more games at a different position) are a cut above all other SS's, but after you probably have Banks as the clear #3 guy, and Ripken, Jeter, Arky Vaughn, Smith, & Larkin all jumbled together after that. There's no way Ripken's a cut above those other guys.

Cal was a good defender, has 3000 hits and 400+ HR's and all while playing his entire career on s**tty Orioles teams. 19 All Star games, 2 league MVP's, 8 silver sluggers, 2 gold gloves and has the iron man record, which could probably be argued as one of the hardest records to break at the moment. Dude was definitely a legend in my eyes.

I'm not necessarily arguing with his resume, I'm just saying that if you consider him to be a legend, I think you have to consider a couple of others the same way, with Jeter being one of them. I don't think he belongs in the same category as A-Rod & Wagner, and I don't think he's a cut above the others I mentioned either. His career OPS+ is 112, which is the lowest amongst the guy's we're discussing, aside from Ozzie Smith, obviously.

He broke a streak that required unparalleled endurance, but I think that's overly weighted when discussing what kind of player he was.

OPS only measures hitters and if anyone ever said that Jeter was among the top 10 greatest hitters of all time ... well then they WOULD be overrating him. Jeter has been a great all round player that could field, hit, run, and be a leader on his team. Plus, he played in the highest pressure organization in all of professional sports. He isnt the greatest Yankee ever obviously but he would be the greatest player(not just hitter) for several organizations in my opinion. I would put him on the same level as Ripken.

Ya, the reason I specifically mentioned OPS as it related to Ripken was because hitting is the only area where I think you could make a legit argument for Cal being noticeably ahead of Jeter, and even when measuring that (via OPS+) Jeter's slightly ahead of Ripken.

I agree that he's on the same level as Jeter, but I can't find the argument that you could make to say he's a notch above.