There are 62 users in the forums

Remember
Not a member? Register Now!

Dirk Nowitzki vs Larry Bird

  • BobS
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 7,827
We now have a center named Noah (6'11 232) and a power forward Garnett (6'11" 220) who are known for physical play and rebounding, I would say they aren't any bigger than their 80's counter parts. Their are just as many tooth picks running around today as 30 years ago and just as many tight end looking types in the 1980's[ as 2011.
Originally posted by BobS:
We now have a center named Noah (6'11 232) and a power forward Garnett (6'11" 220) who are known for physical play and rebounding, I would say they aren't any bigger than their 80's counter parts. Their are just as many tooth picks running around today as 30 years ago and just as many tight end looking types in the 1980's[ as 2011.

And McHale or Parish would probably own Noah.
Originally posted by BobS:
We now have a center named Noah (6'11 232) and a power forward Garnett (6'11" 220) who are known for physical play and rebounding, I would say they aren't any bigger than their 80's counter parts. Their are just as many tooth picks running around today as 30 years ago and just as many tight end looking types in the 1980's[ as 2011.

You really don't think the league is bigger today, Bob?

Judging by the numbers you posted, I'm guessing that you just went to basketball-reference.com for your info. They post the height and weights of players from when they entered the league. Being that Garnett was 19 years old at the time, that skews the numbers. He's played most of his career at 245-250, and his currently listed weight is 253. Big difference. Noah's right though.

I'm never heard someone argue that the average player today isn't bigger. That's provably untrue.
  • jimrat
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 12,177
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by BobS:
We now have a center named Noah (6'11 232) and a power forward Garnett (6'11" 220) who are known for physical play and rebounding, I would say they aren't any bigger than their 80's counter parts. Their are just as many tooth picks running around today as 30 years ago and just as many tight end looking types in the 1980's[ as 2011.

And McHale or Parish would probably own Noah.

None of these guys today would be able to guard McHale, his low post moves where unreal.
  • jimrat
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 12,177
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by BobS:
We now have a center named Noah (6'11 232) and a power forward Garnett (6'11" 220) who are known for physical play and rebounding, I would say they aren't any bigger than their 80's counter parts. Their are just as many tooth picks running around today as 30 years ago and just as many tight end looking types in the 1980's[ as 2011.

You really don't think the league is bigger today, Bob?

Judging by the numbers you posted, I'm guessing that you just went to basketball-reference.com for your info. They post the height and weights of players from when they entered the league. Being that Garnett was 19 years old at the time, that skews the numbers. He's played most of his career at 245-250, and his currently listed weight is 253. Big difference. Noah's right though.

I'm never heard someone argue that the average player today isn't bigger. That's provably untrue.

Kevin Garnett does not look 245 or 250, thats got to be inflated just a little lol

[ Edited by jimrat201 on Jun 7, 2011 at 13:19:56 ]
Originally posted by jimrat201:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by BobS:
We now have a center named Noah (6'11 232) and a power forward Garnett (6'11" 220) who are known for physical play and rebounding, I would say they aren't any bigger than their 80's counter parts. Their are just as many tooth picks running around today as 30 years ago and just as many tight end looking types in the 1980's[ as 2011.

You really don't think the league is bigger today, Bob?

Judging by the numbers you posted, I'm guessing that you just went to basketball-reference.com for your info. They post the height and weights of players from when they entered the league. Being that Garnett was 19 years old at the time, that skews the numbers. He's played most of his career at 245-250, and his currently listed weight is 253. Big difference. Noah's right though.

I'm never heard someone argue that the average player today isn't bigger. That's provably untrue.

Kevin Garnett does not look 245 or 250, thats got to be inflated just a little lol

Either way, the "muscle size" doesn't exactly improve a players game or ability by enough to make a vast difference. I don't know how Garnett would compare against a McHale matchup as Garnett is/was an exceptional player, but then again, McHale gave Barkley problems and I do feel a Barkley in his prime would own Garnett.

It was a more tactical and physical game in the late 80's (playoffs) that it is now. Players today, like Garnett and Howard rely heavily on their physical ability more than anything which is why Garnett never displayed true post-up skill and it's why a lot the bigs today do not display true post-up skill. This is why Duncan, as little muscle he has had throughout his career, owned taller or more powerful players. Players like McHale were not afraid of the contact that was necessary to post-up. Players today, even in the post, still try to run around the defender and fade-away to avoid contact when the contact, with great footwork would give them a huge advantage.
Larry Bird
Originally posted by 80849er4life:
Larry Bird
Originally posted by jimrat201:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by BobS:
We now have a center named Noah (6'11 232) and a power forward Garnett (6'11" 220) who are known for physical play and rebounding, I would say they aren't any bigger than their 80's counter parts. Their are just as many tooth picks running around today as 30 years ago and just as many tight end looking types in the 1980's[ as 2011.

And McHale or Parish would probably own Noah.

None of these guys today would be able to guard McHale, his low post moves where unreal.

Dwight Howard would D him up.....
Originally posted by 80849er4life:
Originally posted by jimrat201:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by BobS:
We now have a center named Noah (6'11 232) and a power forward Garnett (6'11" 220) who are known for physical play and rebounding, I would say they aren't any bigger than their 80's counter parts. Their are just as many tooth picks running around today as 30 years ago and just as many tight end looking types in the 1980's[ as 2011.

And McHale or Parish would probably own Noah.

None of these guys today would be able to guard McHale, his low post moves where unreal.

Dwight Howard would D him up.....

Or he would foul out. McHale would keep his feet and pivot sound enough to keep Howard from leaving the ground or punishing him if he does leave the ground.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by 80849er4life:
Originally posted by jimrat201:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by BobS:
We now have a center named Noah (6'11 232) and a power forward Garnett (6'11" 220) who are known for physical play and rebounding, I would say they aren't any bigger than their 80's counter parts. Their are just as many tooth picks running around today as 30 years ago and just as many tight end looking types in the 1980's[ as 2011.

And McHale or Parish would probably own Noah.

None of these guys today would be able to guard McHale, his low post moves where unreal.

Dwight Howard would D him up.....

Or he would foul out. McHale would keep his feet and pivot sound enough to keep Howard from leaving the ground or punishing him if he does leave the ground.

He can pivot all he wants size and strength would push and keep him out of the paint.....he would have to shoot jumper all day against Howard.
Originally posted by 80849er4life:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by 80849er4life:
Originally posted by jimrat201:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by BobS:
We now have a center named Noah (6'11 232) and a power forward Garnett (6'11" 220) who are known for physical play and rebounding, I would say they aren't any bigger than their 80's counter parts. Their are just as many tooth picks running around today as 30 years ago and just as many tight end looking types in the 1980's[ as 2011.

And McHale or Parish would probably own Noah.

None of these guys today would be able to guard McHale, his low post moves where unreal.

Dwight Howard would D him up.....

Or he would foul out. McHale would keep his feet and pivot sound enough to keep Howard from leaving the ground or punishing him if he does leave the ground.

He can pivot all he wants size and strength would push and keep him out of the paint.....he would have to shoot jumper all day against Howard.

No one is allowed to push a player out. The only thing that would keep McHale out of the key would be Howards quickness to move laterally with each move McHale makes, otherwise, it's a foul. This is why size (not height) and strength is highly over rated. You must be able to move your feet laterally quick enough to stop a move towards the basket.

They are both the same height, therefore, Howard would ultimately rely on his leaping ability to block McHale's shot or his quickness and move to stop penetration but a sound player can always find a way to be successful vs a player who relies on his leaping too much.

There's also the good ole step over the defenders knee move while in the post. That stymies his ability to move or jump in that direction. These are little things that an excellent post player understands and is very crafty at using contact in his favor.

Today's post player relies heavily on the run around move or the jump stop short hook. Hardly do you see a player make a move, pick up the ball, keep his pivot and make two more moves with the pivot. Dirk has added this dimension. Hakeem was great at it and Bynum showed some awesome post moves this year with his pivot. But players like Howard and Garnett still rely on that run one way with a possible second move but always resorting to a jump/short fade type of shot. Rarely do these guys keep there feet well enough to lean into the basket for that final move.

[ Edited by Joecool on Jun 7, 2011 at 14:55:10 ]
Larry Bizzerd
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by 80849er4life:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by 80849er4life:
Originally posted by jimrat201:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by BobS:
We now have a center named Noah (6'11 232) and a power forward Garnett (6'11" 220) who are known for physical play and rebounding, I would say they aren't any bigger than their 80's counter parts. Their are just as many tooth picks running around today as 30 years ago and just as many tight end looking types in the 1980's[ as 2011.

And McHale or Parish would probably own Noah.

None of these guys today would be able to guard McHale, his low post moves where unreal.

Dwight Howard would D him up.....

Or he would foul out. McHale would keep his feet and pivot sound enough to keep Howard from leaving the ground or punishing him if he does leave the ground.

He can pivot all he wants size and strength would push and keep him out of the paint.....he would have to shoot jumper all day against Howard.

No one is allowed to push a player out. The only thing that would keep McHale out of the key would be Howards quickness to move laterally with each move McHale makes, otherwise, it's a foul. This is why size (not height) and strength is highly over rated. You must be able to move your feet laterally quick enough to stop a move towards the basket.

They are both the same height, therefore, Howard would ultimately rely on his leaping ability to block McHale's shot or his quickness and move to stop penetration but a sound player can always find a way to be successful vs a player who relies on his leaping too much.

There's also the good ole step over the defenders knee move while in the post. That stymies his ability to move or jump in that direction. These are little things that an excellent post player understands and is very crafty at using contact in his favor.

Today's post player relies heavily on the run around move or the jump stop short hook. Hardly do you see a player make a move, pick up the ball, keep his pivot and make two more moves with the pivot. Dirk has added this dimension. Hakeem was great at it and Bynum showed some awesome post moves this year with his pivot. But players like Howard and Garnett still rely on that run one way with a possible second move but always resorting to a jump/short fade type of shot. Rarely do these guys keep there feet well enough to lean into the basket for that final move.

Nope.
  • BobS
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 7,827
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by BobS:
We now have a center named Noah (6'11 232) and a power forward Garnett (6'11" 220) who are known for physical play and rebounding, I would say they aren't any bigger than their 80's counter parts. Their are just as many tooth picks running around today as 30 years ago and just as many tight end looking types in the 1980's[ as 2011.

You really don't think the league is bigger today, Bob?

Judging by the numbers you posted, I'm guessing that you just went to basketball-reference.com for your info. They post the height and weights of players from when they entered the league. Being that Garnett was 19 years old at the time, that skews the numbers. He's played most of his career at 245-250, and his currently listed weight is 253. Big difference. Noah's right though.

I'm never heard someone argue that the average player today isn't bigger. That's provably untrue.

I would say the average player today is maybe 5-10 pounds bigger than 25 years ago, I am talking players of the same height. Garnett could tread water in a test tube, if he is 253, he must have grown another foot cause he didn't gain weight by adding muscle. If you go back to the 60's the average player probably is 25 pounds smaller as lifting weights wasn't even popular among football players.
As I have said previously the play was more physical in the 80's because it was tolerated, not because the players were stronger. Why not half kill someone driving for a lay-up if the penalty is the same as any other foul?