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Dirk Nowitzki vs Larry Bird

LOL @ the idea that these 2 are being compared. come on...

Larry Bird is a 3 time MVP, a 3 time champion, a 2 time Finals MVP, a 12 time all-star, and an NBA legend.
Is the support for guys' argument really based around 10 minute long YouTube videos? You can splice together highlights to look like MJ was terrible if you wanted to.

Even adjusted for pace, the 80's were much higher scoring. Aside from the 80's Bad Boys, please name me some teams that was known for their physicality. I'm curious. You have smaller, weaker, & slower athletes that surrendered many more points per possession than their modern counterparts, but you think it's logical to assume that it was a more physical game than today?

It's nothing more than nostalgia.

[ Edited by LA9erFan on Jun 6, 2011 at 01:33:27 ]
Originally posted by Niners99:
LOL @ the idea that these 2 are being compared. come on...

Larry Bird is a 3 time MVP, a 3 time champion, a 2 time Finals MVP, a 12 time all-star, and an NBA legend.
Originally posted by crzy:
This comparison is an insult to Larry Bird.

This
Originally posted by Strwy2Hevn:
Originally posted by crzy:
This comparison is an insult to Larry Bird.

This
Originally posted by solidg2000:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/723111-dirk-nowitzki-vs-larry-bird-who-truly-is-the-better-of-the-two

Since everyone and their moms is comparing them, my buddy decided to write about it
Tell him what you think, some of you might remember him. He's the NY Giants fan that has gone to a couple of the tailgates with me. His wifey had that big booty lol

This isn't even a legit debate. Dirk has to do what he's doing right now for the next decade in order to deserve mention.
  • BobS
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 7,560
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Is the support for guys' argument really based around 10 minute long YouTube videos? You can splice together highlights to look like MJ was terrible if you wanted to.

Even adjusted for pace, the 80's were much higher scoring. Aside from the 80's Bad Boys, please name me some teams that was known for their physicality. I'm curious. You have smaller, weaker, & slower athletes that surrendered many more points per possession than their modern counterparts, but you think it's logical to assume that it was a more physical game than today?

It's nothing more than nostalgia.

Smaller, weaker athletes? First you are off a decade. Want to see small and weak, go back into the the 70's and before when only football players lifted weights. Also even if they were small and weak they were playing against other small and weak guys so that evens out. The point you are missing in the videos is that rougher play was tolerated, a lot of those fouls if they happened today would lead to ejections. The Bynum foul on J.J. Berea would not have got him tossed in 1988. Bearing this in mind if physical play is allowed, the players will be more physical. The league has toned down the roughness, you appear to be ignoring the evidence.
Originally posted by BobS:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Is the support for guys' argument really based around 10 minute long YouTube videos? You can splice together highlights to look like MJ was terrible if you wanted to.

Even adjusted for pace, the 80's were much higher scoring. Aside from the 80's Bad Boys, please name me some teams that was known for their physicality. I'm curious. You have smaller, weaker, & slower athletes that surrendered many more points per possession than their modern counterparts, but you think it's logical to assume that it was a more physical game than today?

It's nothing more than nostalgia.

Smaller, weaker athletes? First you are off a decade. Want to see small and weak, go back into the the 70's and before when only football players lifted weights. Also even if they were small and weak they were playing against other small and weak guys so that evens out. The point you are missing in the videos is that rougher play was tolerated, a lot of those fouls if they happened today would lead to ejections. The Bynum foul on J.J. Berea would not have got him tossed in 1988. Bearing this in mind if physical play is allowed, the players will be more physical. The league has toned down the roughness, you appear to be ignoring the evidence.

The athletes in Bird/Magic era were not smaller/weaker. Lifting weights will help in preventing injuries more than it will help in terms of being able to box out. Look at Kevin Durant. It is the mentality and aggressive nature of a player that makes him stronger on the court. Bird would be able to hang with today's player physically due to his ability to scrap alone.

Look at Hakeem Olajuwan, he came into the league in 84 but excelled in play in the mid 90's. The players today would not be as effective in the playoffs against those teams in the late 80's. Today's player wants to win playing basketball. Mid to Late 80's player won by gamesmanship and physical play if needed.

Today's player doesn't understand gamesmanship and would get mentally abused and out of their game playing against the players from Bird's era.
Originally posted by BobS:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Is the support for guys' argument really based around 10 minute long YouTube videos? You can splice together highlights to look like MJ was terrible if you wanted to.

Even adjusted for pace, the 80's were much higher scoring. Aside from the 80's Bad Boys, please name me some teams that was known for their physicality. I'm curious. You have smaller, weaker, & slower athletes that surrendered many more points per possession than their modern counterparts, but you think it's logical to assume that it was a more physical game than today?

It's nothing more than nostalgia.

Smaller, weaker athletes? First you are off a decade. Want to see small and weak, go back into the the 70's and before when only football players lifted weights. Also even if they were small and weak they were playing against other small and weak guys so that evens out. The point you are missing in the videos is that rougher play was tolerated, a lot of those fouls if they happened today would lead to ejections. The Bynum foul on J.J. Berea would not have got him tossed in 1988. Bearing this in mind if physical play is allowed, the players will be more physical. The league has toned down the roughness, you appear to be ignoring the evidence.

Yes, they were smaller, weaker athletes in the 80's. Kevin McHale was 210-225lbs for most of his career. You know what we call that in 2011? A shooting guard. That was a normal size for a PF. The guys playing the same position in 2011 are a good 20-30lbs bigger, and a few inches taller. The league is bigger and stronger across the board.

In terms of the contact that is allowed, I think we're talking about different things. Yes, the punishment for intentional fouling is much greater now, and that sort of thing was definitely more prevalent during the 80's. No argument there.

But that's also something that happened once every 10 games or so. I'm not talking about fighting, I'm talking about the play-to-play action. The amount of jockeying for position and contact as a result is a night and day difference. That's why the average team was putting up 110ppg and shooting 48-49% from the field...considerably less resistance from defenses

Chuck Daly (RIP) revolutionized the game with his emphasis on the defensive end, specifically in terms of physicality and defensive rotations, and that influence carried over into the 90's, when the game got a lot more physical largely due to the Piston's influence, and scoring/percentages dropped as a result. But the 80's? No way.
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Niners99:
LOL @ the idea that these 2 are being compared. come on...

Larry Bird is a 3 time MVP, a 3 time champion, a 2 time Finals MVP, a 12 time all-star, and an NBA legend.
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by BobS:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Is the support for guys' argument really based around 10 minute long YouTube videos? You can splice together highlights to look like MJ was terrible if you wanted to.

Even adjusted for pace, the 80's were much higher scoring. Aside from the 80's Bad Boys, please name me some teams that was known for their physicality. I'm curious. You have smaller, weaker, & slower athletes that surrendered many more points per possession than their modern counterparts, but you think it's logical to assume that it was a more physical game than today?

It's nothing more than nostalgia.

Smaller, weaker athletes? First you are off a decade. Want to see small and weak, go back into the the 70's and before when only football players lifted weights. Also even if they were small and weak they were playing against other small and weak guys so that evens out. The point you are missing in the videos is that rougher play was tolerated, a lot of those fouls if they happened today would lead to ejections. The Bynum foul on J.J. Berea would not have got him tossed in 1988. Bearing this in mind if physical play is allowed, the players will be more physical. The league has toned down the roughness, you appear to be ignoring the evidence.

Yes, they were smaller, weaker athletes in the 80's. Kevin McHale was 210-225lbs for most of his career. You know what we call that in 2011? A shooting guard. That was a normal size for a PF. The guys playing the same position in 2011 are a good 20-30lbs bigger, and a few inches taller. The league is bigger and stronger across the board.

In terms of the contact that is allowed, I think we're talking about different things. Yes, the punishment for intentional fouling is much greater now, and that sort of thing was definitely more prevalent during the 80's. No argument there.

But that's also something that happened once every 10 games or so. I'm not talking about fighting, I'm talking about the play-to-play action. The amount of jockeying for position and contact as a result is a night and day difference. That's why the average team was putting up 110ppg and shooting 48-49% from the field...considerably less resistance from defenses

Chuck Daly (RIP) revolutionized the game with his emphasis on the defensive end, specifically in terms of physicality and defensive rotations, and that influence carried over into the 90's, when the game got a lot more physical largely due to the Piston's influence, and scoring/percentages dropped as a result. But the 80's? No way.

I don't think NBA is a game heavily influenced by strength and weight. Like my example of Olajuwan, Barkley also played well in the 90's and he would be the first one to tell everyone how tough McHale was. The mentality of the players today is different and I don't see a lot of them being able to handle the gamesmanship used in the Bird era. That was one of Jordan's biggest influences in how mentally tough he was. Bird would mind f**k a lot of today's players.

Size and strength is over rated in a game where it is illegal to run a player over. Jockeying for position takes a lot more than size and strength and guys like McHale, Bird, Rodman, and Barkley knew how it was done. Kobe is also scrappy in that sense. Not a lot of players today with that much scrap and mental toughness to them.

[ Edited by Joecool on Jun 6, 2011 at 15:07:26 ]
lock this thread please!

Larry Bird in my opinion is the third greatest player of all time. Dirk is awesome and a first ballot hall of famer but he'll never be able to do what Bird has done on the court. Bird was a true original
white guy > german guy
Originally posted by bayarealuv:
white guy > german guy

The space/time continuum just collapsed: white guy > german guy = white guy
I like Larry Bird and i cant stand Dirk Nowitzki

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