Lebron vs. Jordan

Originally posted by TheGoldenState:

Originally posted by Amir_Mamu:

Originally posted by TheSixthRing:

Originally posted by Amir_Mamu:
Mark Jackson said that he thinks D-Wade is the third best SG of all time behind Jordan and Kobe. What do ya'll think?

I'd have to agree. I can't think of another SG I'd take over Wade, outside MJ and Kobe. Clyde in his prime, maybe.

Reggie??

Oscar Robertson?????

The Big O is generally considered a Point Guard.

Originally posted by TheSixthRing:

Originally posted by TheGoldenState:

Originally posted by Amir_Mamu:

Originally posted by TheSixthRing:

Originally posted by Amir_Mamu:
Mark Jackson said that he thinks D-Wade is the third best SG of all time behind Jordan and Kobe. What do ya'll think?

I'd have to agree. I can't think of another SG I'd take over Wade, outside MJ and Kobe. Clyde in his prime, maybe.

Reggie??

Oscar Robertson?????

The Big O is generally considered a Point Guard.

Jerry West? I might take Wade over him but I am just asking because I never saw West play.

Originally posted by andes14:

Originally posted by Amir_Mamu:

Originally posted by blizzuntz:

Originally posted by Amir_Mamu:
Mark Jackson said that he thinks D-Wade is the third best SG of all time behind Jordan and Kobe. What do ya'll think?

I'd say he is #2

You'd put D-Herps over Kobe??? No way!!!

I can agree with the argument of him being 3 but no way 2.

Why exactly is there no way that D-Wade is #2 behind only Jordan.

Also, Reggie Miller is AT BEST 7-8 on the list...AT BEST.

You think that Wade is better than Kobe in his prime? Wade is sick and the best scorer on his team but he is not better than Prime Kobe dude. Kobe has 5 rings, they both played with the same guy(Shaq) and got a ring from him, and now Wade is working on ring #2 with 2 other superstars on his team. Meanwhile Kobe has 5 rings, had a better jump shot and post game, an MVP, a finals MVP or 2, and Wade doesnt have an MVP he only has a finals MVP(which is still pretty good). Sorry but Kobe's resume is better.

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by andes14:

Originally posted by Amir_Mamu:

Originally posted by blizzuntz:

Originally posted by Amir_Mamu:
Mark Jackson said that he thinks D-Wade is the third best SG of all time behind Jordan and Kobe. What do ya'll think?

I'd say he is #2

You'd put D-Herps over Kobe??? No way!!!

I can agree with the argument of him being 3 but no way 2.

Why exactly is there no way that D-Wade is #2 behind only Jordan.

Also, Reggie Miller is AT BEST 7-8 on the list...AT BEST.

You think that Wade is better than Kobe in his prime? Wade is sick and the best scorer on his team but he is not better than Prime Kobe dude. Kobe has 5 rings, they both played with the same guy(Shaq) and got a ring from him, and now Wade is working on ring #2 with 2 other superstars on his team. Meanwhile Kobe has 5 rings, had a better jump shot and post game, an MVP, a finals MVP or 2, and Wade doesnt have an MVP he only has a finals MVP(which is still pretty good). Sorry but Kobe's resume is better.

For now his resume is better.

Originally posted by blizzuntz:

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by andes14:

Originally posted by Amir_Mamu:

Originally posted by blizzuntz:

Originally posted by Amir_Mamu:
Mark Jackson said that he thinks D-Wade is the third best SG of all time behind Jordan and Kobe. What do ya'll think?

I'd say he is #2

You'd put D-Herps over Kobe??? No way!!!

I can agree with the argument of him being 3 but no way 2.

Why exactly is there no way that D-Wade is #2 behind only Jordan.

Also, Reggie Miller is AT BEST 7-8 on the list...AT BEST.

You think that Wade is better than Kobe in his prime? Wade is sick and the best scorer on his team but he is not better than Prime Kobe dude. Kobe has 5 rings, they both played with the same guy(Shaq) and got a ring from him, and now Wade is working on ring #2 with 2 other superstars on his team. Meanwhile Kobe has 5 rings, had a better jump shot and post game, an MVP, a finals MVP or 2, and Wade doesnt have an MVP he only has a finals MVP(which is still pretty good). Sorry but Kobe's resume is better.

For now his resume is better.

I thought you were one of the people saying Bron is better than DWade, now Wade is better than Kobe? Even though Kobe in his prime would take Bron to school?

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by andes14:

Originally posted by Amir_Mamu:

Originally posted by blizzuntz:

Originally posted by Amir_Mamu:
Mark Jackson said that he thinks D-Wade is the third best SG of all time behind Jordan and Kobe. What do ya'll think?

I'd say he is #2

You'd put D-Herps over Kobe??? No way!!!

I can agree with the argument of him being 3 but no way 2.

Why exactly is there no way that D-Wade is #2 behind only Jordan.

Also, Reggie Miller is AT BEST 7-8 on the list...AT BEST.

You think that Wade is better than Kobe in his prime? Wade is sick and the best scorer on his team but he is not better than Prime Kobe dude. Kobe has 5 rings, they both played with the same guy(Shaq) and got a ring from him, and now Wade is working on ring #2 with 2 other superstars on his team. Meanwhile Kobe has 5 rings, had a better jump shot and post game, an MVP, a finals MVP or 2, and Wade doesnt have an MVP he only has a finals MVP(which is still pretty good). Sorry but Kobe's resume is better.

First of all, let's not compare their time with Shaq. Kobe had Shaq during his 8 prime, best years. Wade had him for a year or 2 while he was still good but not like he was before, and for a year or 2 when he was starting to slip badly. And that's it. Kobe arguably doesn't get any non-Shaq rings if it weren't for Celtics injuries (they woulda have to have been the faves to win in '09 with Garnett as they pushed the eventual conference champs to 7 games without a single second played by their best player...it's also very likely they don't eek out the game 7 win in '10 with Perkins). Also, while they both average essentially the same ppg for their careers (while it took Kobe a full additional shot per game to do so), Kobe's career high in FG% is surpassed by Wade's FG% every year of his career except for his rookie year (and even that was close). He also has a career edge in eFG% and TS% as well. He is also a significantly better passer and at least as good if not better on the glass and defensively. The same for every thing I just said is also true when comparing their playoff stats. Then throw in the significant career supporting cast advantage Kobe has enjoyed throughout his career (which explains the fact he has won more), and I don't see how one can say there is no chance Wade>Kobe.

Also, the year Kobe won MVP, you could EASILY make the argument it should have gone to CP3, LBJ, or Garnett ahead of him. As for the stuff like jump shot and post game, that may be true, yet it doesn't wind up mattering if it doesn't give him any edge in scoring metrics such as FG%, eFG%, TS%. For example, Kobe shoots 4.7% better from distance, yet he fails to have a higher eFG% even though it is weighted for 3's, so that edge doesn't really mean anything. Just like Kobe is a better free throw shooter, yet if it doesn't give him a higher TS% (which takes into account free throw shooting), it is meaningless.

But again, please don't imply that the playing with Shaq factor is something that is worthy of being canceled out because it is clearly not. Even the biggest LBJ haters don't point out that he didn't win a ring with Shaq because that would just be ludicrous.

[ Edited by andes14 on Jun 8, 2011 at 18:41:56 ]

Reminds me of '06, when people were saying that Wade was better than Kobe.

Wade's a great player, and he's in the conversation for the #3 SG of all time, but this is just as silly as Henry Abbott calling LeBron the next Jordan after the Chicago series, or people comparing Dirk to Larry Bird.

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by blizzuntz:

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by andes14:

Originally posted by Amir_Mamu:

Originally posted by blizzuntz:

Originally posted by Amir_Mamu:
Mark Jackson said that he thinks D-Wade is the third best SG of all time behind Jordan and Kobe. What do ya'll think?

I'd say he is #2

You'd put D-Herps over Kobe??? No way!!!

I can agree with the argument of him being 3 but no way 2.

Why exactly is there no way that D-Wade is #2 behind only Jordan.

Also, Reggie Miller is AT BEST 7-8 on the list...AT BEST.

You think that Wade is better than Kobe in his prime? Wade is sick and the best scorer on his team but he is not better than Prime Kobe dude. Kobe has 5 rings, they both played with the same guy(Shaq) and got a ring from him, and now Wade is working on ring #2 with 2 other superstars on his team. Meanwhile Kobe has 5 rings, had a better jump shot and post game, an MVP, a finals MVP or 2, and Wade doesnt have an MVP he only has a finals MVP(which is still pretty good). Sorry but Kobe's resume is better.

For now his resume is better.

I thought you were one of the people saying Bron is better than DWade, now Wade is better than Kobe? Even though Kobe in his prime would take Bron to school?

False.

Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Reminds me of '06, when people were saying that Wade was better than Kobe.

Wade's a great player, and he's in the conversation for the #3 SG of all time, but this is just as silly as Henry Abbott calling LeBron the next Jordan after the Chicago series, or people comparing Dirk to Larry Bird.

Yes but at least the statistical facts back Bird being better than Dirk and MJ being better than LBJ. Not the case for Kobe being better than Wade.

Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Reminds me of '06, when people were saying that Wade was better than Kobe.

Wade's a great player, and he's in the conversation for the #3 SG of all time, but this is just as silly as Henry Abbott calling LeBron the next Jordan after the Chicago series, or people comparing Dirk to Larry Bird.

Exactly. I have no problem with people saying D-Herps at #3 for All Time SG but over Kobe? No way, no how.

The tremendous disconnect between the opinion of fans/media and the opinion of NBA talent evaluators/contributors as it relates to Kobe Bryant is greater than any player I've ever seen in any sport. NBA folks, as recently as the beginning of this year picked Kobe as the best player in the league. And you know what? It wasn't even close. More than twice as many votes as the #2 player, LeBron James. Same was true last year.

There's a direct correlation between how much you know about basketball and how much you appreciate Kobe Bryant's game. Some of the conversation on here on this topic is f**kin' ridiculous.

Originally posted by LA9erFan:
The tremendous disconnect between the opinion of fans/media and the opinion of NBA talent evaluators/contributors as it relates to Kobe Bryant is greater than any player I've ever seen in any sport. NBA folks, as recently as the beginning of this year picked Kobe as the best player in the league. And you know what? It wasn't even close. More than twice as many votes as the #2 player, LeBron James. Same was true last year.

There's a direct correlation between how much you know about basketball and how much you appreciate Kobe Bryant's game. Some of the conversation on here on this topic is f**kin' ridiculous.

Well said again. I hate Kobe. I hate the Lakers. But I'm not gonna deny how good Kobe is. Same with Jordan.

Kobe is far and away the second best SG of all time behind MJ. It's not even close after that.

Originally posted by LA9erFan:
The tremendous disconnect between the opinion of fans/media and the opinion of NBA talent evaluators/contributors as it relates to Kobe Bryant is greater than any player I've ever seen in any sport. NBA folks, as recently as the beginning of this year picked Kobe as the best player in the league. And you know what? It wasn't even close. More than twice as many votes as the #2 player, LeBron James. Same was true last year.

There's a direct correlation between how much you know about basketball and how much you appreciate Kobe Bryant's game. Some of the conversation on here on this topic is f**kin' ridiculous.

Yes it's merely hypothetical, but I'd bet good money if Wade, LBJ, and the other superstars of the NBA had the good fortune of playing the last 15 years surrounded by the talent Kobe has had, and thus accumulated the jewelry that Kobe has, that vote would be different. After all, the jobs of the talent evaluators, GM's, etc. is to build championship winning teams so of course their judgement is gonna be naturally favorable to the guys that have won. Do you think that vote would look the same if LBJ played for LAL the past 8 years and Kobe wasted away in Cleveland?

If someone can objectively/statistically explain how there is NO chance Wade is better than Kobe, WITHOUT POINTING OUT RINGS (since supporting casts have just a wee bit of influence on rings), I'm all ears. I mean, like I said, Wade also has better POSTSEASON numbers than Kobe...

[ Edited by andes14 on Jun 8, 2011 at 18:52:02 ]

Originally posted by andes14:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:
The tremendous disconnect between the opinion of fans/media and the opinion of NBA talent evaluators/contributors as it relates to Kobe Bryant is greater than any player I've ever seen in any sport. NBA folks, as recently as the beginning of this year picked Kobe as the best player in the league. And you know what? It wasn't even close. More than twice as many votes as the #2 player, LeBron James. Same was true last year.

There's a direct correlation between how much you know about basketball and how much you appreciate Kobe Bryant's game. Some of the conversation on here on this topic is f**kin' ridiculous.

Yes it's merely hypothetical, but I'd bet good money if Wade, LBJ, and the other superstars of the NBA had the good fortune of playing the last 15 years surrounded by the talent Kobe has had, and thus accumulated the jewelry that Kobe has, that vote would be different. After all, the jobs of the talent evaluators, GM's, etc. is to build championship winning teams so of course their judgement is gonna be weighted to the guys that have won. Do you think that vote would look the same if LBJ played for LAL the past 8 years and Kobe wasted away in Cleveland?

If someone can objectively/statistically explain how there is NO chance Wade is better than Kobe, WITHOUT POINTING OUT RINGS (since supporting casts have just a wee bit of influence on rings), I'm all ears. I mean, like I said, Wade also has better POSTSEASON numbers than Kobe...

Don't forget Kobe's first three seasons (right out of HS) skew his reg season and playoff numbers. Take those away, and he would be statistically better than Wade. Also, Kobe averaged 30+ in 4 playoff seasons. Wades only done it once.

And damn you for making me back Kobe.

[ Edited by Amir_Mamu on Jun 8, 2011 at 18:54:09 ]

Originally posted by Amir_Mamu:

Originally posted by andes14:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:
The tremendous disconnect between the opinion of fans/media and the opinion of NBA talent evaluators/contributors as it relates to Kobe Bryant is greater than any player I've ever seen in any sport. NBA folks, as recently as the beginning of this year picked Kobe as the best player in the league. And you know what? It wasn't even close. More than twice as many votes as the #2 player, LeBron James. Same was true last year.

There's a direct correlation between how much you know about basketball and how much you appreciate Kobe Bryant's game. Some of the conversation on here on this topic is f**kin' ridiculous.

Yes it's merely hypothetical, but I'd bet good money if Wade, LBJ, and the other superstars of the NBA had the good fortune of playing the last 15 years surrounded by the talent Kobe has had, and thus accumulated the jewelry that Kobe has, that vote would be different. After all, the jobs of the talent evaluators, GM's, etc. is to build championship winning teams so of course their judgement is gonna be weighted to the guys that have won. Do you think that vote would look the same if LBJ played for LAL the past 8 years and Kobe wasted away in Cleveland?

If someone can objectively/statistically explain how there is NO chance Wade is better than Kobe, WITHOUT POINTING OUT RINGS (since supporting casts have just a wee bit of influence on rings), I'm all ears. I mean, like I said, Wade also has better POSTSEASON numbers than Kobe...

Don't forget Kobe's first three seasons (right out of HS) skew his reg season and playoff numbers. Take those away, and he would be statistically better than Wade. Also, Kobe averaged 30+ in 4 playoff seasons. Wades only done it once.

Even still, even Kobe's most efficient season is surpassed by nearly ALL of Wade's seasons. Coming out of high school does nothing to skew that.