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Lebron James Approval Rating

Lebron James Approval Rating

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Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Mike Miller and Udonis Haslem are both healthy and have been productive, high-minute role players throughout their careers, Joel Anthony is one of the 5 best defensive centers in the game, and Mario Chalmers is one of the better PG defenders as well. Considering that only 7-8 guys get minutes in a playoff setting, Miami's extremely talented.

Haslem and Miller aren't healthy by any stretch. Haslem has played last 3 games, and isn't close to being 100% and Mike Miller is playin' injured and has had 1 good game.

Joel Anthony is not one of the 5 best defensive centers. He is a great shot-blocker but below average on the boards. Give me Marc Gasol, Bynum, Perkins, Noah, Howard, Okafor, Bogut, and many more over Anthony just on the defensive end.

Chalmers is a good defensive PG, but nothing extra-ordinary. And, when you're such a big fat zero on the other end, you can't play more than 24 minutes consistently.

On offense, Miami has been playin' 3 on 5 ball for pretty much the whole playoffs, and even with limited minutes from Haslem and Miller - they have to play LONG stretches of 3 vs 5 on one end of the floor.

Miami has been one of the top offensive scoring teams in the league, in regular season. But, when you're going up against two of the best defenses in the league in playoffs, you are going to struggle to score 95-100 pts consistently.
Originally posted by Joecool:
It's that you make the statement of having three super talented players as a fan of a team full of the best player in the league and the biggest front court in the league. I also can't understand how Ron Artest, a guy who helped a crap Kings team into the playoffs and nearly single handedly got the Rockets into the Semis all of a sudden sucks as a player now. It turns back to the Lakers because your team is very similar to what you say mIA is but in a different way. Lakers were considered one of the most talented teams prior to the season.

Either way, Lebron in MIA or Lebron in cleveland doesn't matter. He had crap in CLE and went to the Finals and lost. When Kobe or any other player does not have enough cohesive talent, they also lose a Finals.

Ron Artest didn't nearly single-handedly get the Rockets into the semis. Yao Ming led that team to the 2nd round. I didn't say Artest sucks now either. He's a solid role player, but he hasn't been even close to being a star in a few years.

Citing what Artest did in 2007 in Sacramento and trying to apply it to 2011 is about as valid as me doing the same with Mike Bibby.
I don't think I'm ever going to be a LeBrick fan. He has done way too many childish and egotistical things to just forget. In my eyes, he's just another punk, and he will never EVER be the legend Jordan was or even Kobe.
The scariest thing about Lebron is he is only getting better. 3 years ago Lebron was arguably the best at taking it to the hole. Now you could argue he is the best open court player on offense and defense, top defender if not the best defender in this years playoffs. His jumper has vastly improved to the point where it is no longer a surprise when he hits consecutive shots. And he is starting to make appearances in the post game.

He can only get better in the half court once he figures how to make the offense less stagnant due to his ball hogging.
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Originally posted by blizzuntz:
The scariest thing about Lebron is he is only getting better. 3 years ago Lebron was arguably the best at taking it to the hole. Now you could argue he is the best open court player on offense and defense, top defender if not the best defender in this years playoffs. His jumper has vastly improved to the point where it is no longer a surprise when he hits consecutive shots. And he is starting to make appearances in the post game.

He can only get better in the half court once he figures how to make the offense less stagnant due to his ball hogging.

Honestly, I've no confidence in his jumper, especially when it's contested. I don't know how he is hitting those consistently in 4th quarter...but I always cringe when he takes a contested 3 or a long jumper.

He has been a good defender past few years, but he has taken that part of his game to another level. He is a top defender in the league right now at his position, and the fact that he can guard 1-4 effectively - makes him probably a top 3 defender in the league at any position. I do want to say this though, having Wade and other good defenders on the team helps tremendously. When you know that you can get beat and the team behind you is fully capable of stoppin' your guy, it makes things a LOT easier.
Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:
Haslem and Miller aren't healthy by any stretch. Haslem has played last 3 games, and isn't close to being 100% and Mike Miller is playin' injured and has had 1 good game.

Joel Anthony is not one of the 5 best defensive centers. He is a great shot-blocker but below average on the boards. Give me Marc Gasol, Bynum, Perkins, Noah, Howard, Okafor, Bogut, and many more over Anthony just on the defensive end.

Chalmers is a good defensive PG, but nothing extra-ordinary. And, when you're such a big fat zero on the other end, you can't play more than 24 minutes consistently.

On offense, Miami has been playin' 3 on 5 ball for pretty much the whole playoffs, and even with limited minutes from Haslem and Miller - they have to play LONG stretches of 3 vs 5 on one end of the floor.

Miami has been one of the top offensive scoring teams in the league, in regular season. But, when you're going up against two of the best defenses in the league in playoffs, you are going to struggle to score 95-100 pts consistently.

First of all..thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you for your ability to always discuss these things intelligently. You and a couple of others keep me sane.

Regarding Haslem, while he's only been back for 3 games, has there been a better defense/rebounding/hustle big on the floor in those 3 games? Miami got destroyed on the boards in Game 1, and it's no coincidence that changed when Haslem returned. He may have just come back, but he's doing what he does (defense/rebounding/hustle) at an extremely high level.

As for Miller, just yesterday Spoelstra said, "Mike has really struggled through a frustrating year for him, and we're all happy for him that now he's able to play without really being inhibited by injuries."

If we're talking about the entirety of the year...ya, Miami hasn't had much depth. But the Haslem and Miller that they have right now (when championships are won) are very good players.

I probably overshot Anthony's defensive value due to his rebounding. My point was that he's about the 6th best player on this team, and he's amongst the elite rim protectors in the league. Neither Gasol nor Perkins are close to his level in this respect. The rebounding point is a fair one, but again, we're talking about the 6th best player on this team.

It's difficult to quantify perimeter defense in a discussion like this, but I think you undersell Chalmers as a defender. He's been renowned for his defense since his days at Kansas, and he's been the primary defender on Rose in this series. Chalmers has come up in conversation with a couple of the people that are affiliated with the NBA, and he's apparently highly thought of around the league on this end, with the caveat that he's a gigantic dumbass on the offensive end. Despite being on the same team with LeBron & Wade, he's the best ball hawk on the team in terms of steals per minute, and he's been amongst the best in the league in this respect since he was a rookie. And offensively, his only job is to knock down open threes, and he's done that at a respectable 35.4% clip. He's not a great player, but he's a contributor and solid guy to have as your 6th or 7th best player.

I don't think the regular season is terribly relevant to the discussion of his supporting cast during the playoffs. It's a different team.
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by Joecool:
It's that you make the statement of having three super talented players as a fan of a team full of the best player in the league and the biggest front court in the league. I also can't understand how Ron Artest, a guy who helped a crap Kings team into the playoffs and nearly single handedly got the Rockets into the Semis all of a sudden sucks as a player now. It turns back to the Lakers because your team is very similar to what you say mIA is but in a different way. Lakers were considered one of the most talented teams prior to the season.

Either way, Lebron in MIA or Lebron in cleveland doesn't matter. He had crap in CLE and went to the Finals and lost. When Kobe or any other player does not have enough cohesive talent, they also lose a Finals.

Ron Artest didn't nearly single-handedly get the Rockets into the semis. Yao Ming led that team to the 2nd round. I didn't say Artest sucks now either. He's a solid role player, but he hasn't been even close to being a star in a few years.

Citing what Artest did in 2007 in Sacramento and trying to apply it to 2011 is about as valid as me doing the same with Mike Bibby.

Artest being a role player in LA does not take away from his ability to be able to be the best player on another team. That actually verifies even more the talent of the Lakers. It's no different than Bosh now being considered as a role player. If I recall, HOU without Yao was giving the Lakers major problems until the Fisher head butt. Ron Artest was playing at a very high level and has played at a very high level when called upon. Last years Lakers Championship and throughout the playoffs, Ron Artest was a HUGE factor in Lakers wins. Kobe did help the Lakers win the championship, but as you stated about Lebron needing Millers...Haslem's or whomevers help is no different than Kobe needing a lot of help last year from some of the league's best players in Artest, Pau, and Odom. Kobe didn't have the greatest NBA Finals. His highest stage last year was the PHX series.

Lakers are no different than a super team with Kobe, the biggest front court in the league, Ron Artest, and Lamar Odom coming off the bench. That's 3 of 5 players they acquired through FA/trade.

Fact is, Lebron has lead his team overall for the last 5 games. The Heat are debunking many things everyone was saying about them and Lebron is doing the same and showing how he can take over a game if he wants to.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Artest being a role player in LA does not take away from his ability to be able to be the best player on another team. That actually verifies even more the talent of the Lakers. It's no different than Bosh now being considered as a role player. If I recall, HOU without Yao was giving the Lakers major problems until the Fisher head butt. Ron Artest was playing at a very high level and has played at a very high level when called upon. Last years Lakers Championship and throughout the playoffs, Ron Artest was a HUGE factor in Lakers wins. Kobe did help the Lakers win the championship, but as you stated about Lebron needing Millers...Haslem's or whomevers help is no different than Kobe needing a lot of help last year from some of the league's best players in Artest, Pau, and Odom. Kobe didn't have the greatest NBA Finals. His highest stage last year was the PHX series.

Lakers are no different than a super team with Kobe, the biggest front court in the league, Ron Artest, and Lamar Odom coming off the bench. That's 3 of 5 players they acquired through FA/trade.

Fact is, Lebron has lead his team overall for the last 5 games. The Heat are debunking many things everyone was saying about them and Lebron is doing the same and showing how he can take over a game if he wants to.

Ron Artest in 2010 or 2011 is nowhere near one of the league's best players. He hasn't been since about 2007. Hell, we didn't even HAVE Artest for the first title. We had Trevor Ariza, who has struggled tremendously since leaving.

The idea that people think the Lakers had a super team around Kobe in the last two seasons blows my mind. Kobe had a legit all-star (Gasol), a very good player (Odom), a few good role players (injured Bynum, Artest/Ariza, and Fisher if you're being REALLY generous) and no bench. LeBron has a superstar (Wade), a legit all-star (Bosh), and a few good role players (Haslem, Miller, and Anthony/Chalmers if you're being Fisher-level generous)
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Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:
Haslem and Miller aren't healthy by any stretch. Haslem has played last 3 games, and isn't close to being 100% and Mike Miller is playin' injured and has had 1 good game.

Joel Anthony is not one of the 5 best defensive centers. He is a great shot-blocker but below average on the boards. Give me Marc Gasol, Bynum, Perkins, Noah, Howard, Okafor, Bogut, and many more over Anthony just on the defensive end.

Chalmers is a good defensive PG, but nothing extra-ordinary. And, when you're such a big fat zero on the other end, you can't play more than 24 minutes consistently.

On offense, Miami has been playin' 3 on 5 ball for pretty much the whole playoffs, and even with limited minutes from Haslem and Miller - they have to play LONG stretches of 3 vs 5 on one end of the floor.

Miami has been one of the top offensive scoring teams in the league, in regular season. But, when you're going up against two of the best defenses in the league in playoffs, you are going to struggle to score 95-100 pts consistently.

First of all..thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you for your ability to always discuss these things intelligently. You and a couple of others keep me sane.

Regarding Haslem, while he's only been back for 3 games, has there been a better defense/rebounding/hustle big on the floor in those 3 games? Miami got destroyed on the boards in Game 1, and it's no coincidence that changed when Haslem returned. He may have just come back, but he's doing what he does (defense/rebounding/hustle) at an extremely high level.

As for Miller, just yesterday Spoelstra said, "Mike has really struggled through a frustrating year for him, and we're all happy for him that now he's able to play without really being inhibited by injuries."

If we're talking about the entirety of the year...ya, Miami hasn't had much depth. But the Haslem and Miller that they have right now (when championships are won) are very good players.

I probably overshot Anthony's defensive value due to his rebounding. My point was that he's about the 6th best player on this team, and he's amongst the elite rim protectors in the league. Neither Gasol nor Perkins are close to his level in this respect. The rebounding point is a fair one, but again, we're talking about the 6th best player on this team.

It's difficult to quantify perimeter defense in a discussion like this, but I think you undersell Chalmers as a defender. He's been renowned for his defense since his days at Kansas, and he's been the primary defender on Rose in this series. Chalmers has come up in conversation with a couple of the people that are affiliated with the NBA, and he's apparently highly thought of around the league on this end, with the caveat that he's a gigantic dumbass on the offensive end. Despite being on the same team with LeBron & Wade, he's the best ball hawk on the team in terms of steals per minute, and he's been amongst the best in the league in this respect since he was a rookie. And offensively, his only job is to knock down open threes, and he's done that at a respectable 35.4% clip. He's not a great player, but he's a contributor and solid guy to have as your 6th or 7th best player.

I don't think the regular season is terribly relevant to the discussion of his supporting cast during the playoffs. It's a different team.

Thanks Pete...man, it's always great discussing hoops with you. You're probably spot-on with Chalmers, it's just that the dude plays more than half a game once in a blue-moon, you kind of think of him strictly as a role player. You're absolutely correct in the steals dept. - he is one of the best in the league.

Btw...I haven't seen Spols statement on Miller but in the article today on Espn:

Quote:
Miami Heat guard Mike Miller has been playing with a ruptured tendon in his left thumb that he suffered a month ago, coach Erik Spoelstra revealed at practice on Wednesday.

Even during the last game, the commentators talked about the pain Miller is in. So, I'm confused why Spols said that.

But, Miller is a pretty good on the boards, so he has been a factor there. Haslem finally played over 30 minutes in the last game, and I don't want to minimize his contribution to the team against the Bulls. He has been HUGE - so I've no issues with your take on him. Though, I must add - Heat has looked very very impressive in the playoffs before he joined the team.

As for Anthony, he is a pretty good rim protector - and I'd be completely fine with him being a 6th best player, but as a center - if you can't rebound, you really hurt your team, not just defensively, but also offensively - because Lebron and Wade are forced to stay back and rebound.

I still believe this team has major flaws, outside shooting is ehh and front-court that can box out is lacking in a big way - which is why, many people doubted they could have huge impact in the playoffs in 2011.
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by Jigga:
Like him.

Although the "Decision" was a bit tasteless, the silver lining is that its sponsporship revenue brought in approx $2M for the Boys and Girls' Club of America. Nobody really brings that up. Not to mention the fact that a majority of us watched it LIVE in anticipation of what he was going to say. A good percentage of us wanted to see him out of a Cavs uni anyway. Sucks for Cleveland fan...not for me.

Let's stop for a minute and take into account that Lebron James is arguably the most coddled, most publicized, most anointed High School athlete of our lifetime. You know what that means, right? Yup...Dude has had people wiping his a$$ during and after infancy. Signed a $100M contract with Nike before he even played an NBA game. There's reason as to why he can be douche-like...some of it is warranted IMO. Let's not kid ourselves. Some of sports' biggest figures were NOT humble human beings.

Yeah, spot on. I mean, MJ is a gigantic a-hole and he might be the most beloved athlete in history. Our very own Jerry Rice isn't Citizen of the Year either. I don't get all of the hate that LeBron gets in this respect. I "sports hate" him because he's both a rival and I think he's overrated as a player. But as a person, I don't really have an opinion. I don't know the guy.

I also think he wussed out by joining forces with Wade & Bosh.

Can't really blame him for wanting a supporting cast after that group he had in Cleveland for 7 years. I bet if even one of Wade or Bosh (or even a Stoudemire, Joe Johnson, etc.) would have been willing to go to Cleveland, he would have stayed, but who wants to go to Cleveland?

Lest we forget Kobe's tantrums in the summer of '07 and the fact that he probably would have wanted to join another star or two if it weren't for the Gasol donation. I wonder how he would have handled himself and what he would have done if he were in LBJ's shoes for SEVEN (don't forget he only had supporting casts that weren't outstanding for THREE out of 15 years) years in Cleveland. Just be sure to keep in mind Kobe had outstanding supporting casts in 13 of 16 years and LBJ didn't even have an average caliber supporting cast for any of 7 years.
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:
Originally posted by crabman82:
Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:
Originally posted by crabman82:
Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:
Originally posted by crabman82:
Wade > LeBron, ya i said it, why do u think bosh went to miami instead of cleveland? lebron only followed once he knew bosh was going to south beach

What kind of reasoning is this? Who the f**k wants to play in Cleveland? Lebron just announced his decision the last, but it was clear - Wade and Lebron were going to play together...whether it was in NY, Chicago, or Miami.

bs lebron was recruiting bosh 2 go to cleveland, i'm sure he woulda liked wade to join them, but once bosh went 2 miami he had to go to other alpha males team who already has his ring

It is well documented - Lebron and Wade were going to sign up with the same team this off-seaosn. Miami made the most sense because Miami had the room to sign 3 stars, whereas Chicago and NY could only add 2.

Wade has one championship...with Shaq still dominating inside. Yeah...that def. makes Wade the more "alpha-man" than Lebron.


ya shaq dominatd the middle so much that without wade they woulda gotta swept by dallas in 2006. i dont doubt lebron wanted to play with wade, but he wanted it in cleveland, once bosh said i'm going to miami thats when lebron changed his mind

http://www.fearthesword.com/2010/7/6/1554543/broussard-lebron-wants-chris-bosh

Riley wanted Amare, Wade, and Lebron

Miami's initial plan didn't even involve Bosh. Wade and Lebron were going to play together, it was a matter of who the 3rd player was going to be. Anyways, it doesn't matter. Lebron is the best player in the NBA right now, so it's a moot point discussing who the best player on the Heat is. There will be games when D-Wade plays better than Lebron...just like there are days when Ray Allen outplays Garnett and Pierce, when Gasol outplays Kobe, when Pippen outplayed Jordan - but Lebron is the best player, and it's not really close.

I agree 100%.

I 2nd that.
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by Jigga:
Like him.

Although the "Decision" was a bit tasteless, the silver lining is that its sponsporship revenue brought in approx $2M for the Boys and Girls' Club of America. Nobody really brings that up. Not to mention the fact that a majority of us watched it LIVE in anticipation of what he was going to say. A good percentage of us wanted to see him out of a Cavs uni anyway. Sucks for Cleveland fan...not for me.

Let's stop for a minute and take into account that Lebron James is arguably the most coddled, most publicized, most anointed High School athlete of our lifetime. You know what that means, right? Yup...Dude has had people wiping his a$$ during and after infancy. Signed a $100M contract with Nike before he even played an NBA game. There's reason as to why he can be douche-like...some of it is warranted IMO. Let's not kid ourselves. Some of sports' biggest figures were NOT humble human beings.

Yeah, spot on. I mean, MJ is a gigantic a-hole and he might be the most beloved athlete in history. Our very own Jerry Rice isn't Citizen of the Year either. I don't get all of the hate that LeBron gets in this respect. I "sports hate" him because he's both a rival and I think he's overrated as a player. But as a person, I don't really have an opinion. I don't know the guy.

I also think he wussed out by joining forces with Wade & Bosh.

Can't really blame him for wanting a supporting cast after that group he had in Cleveland for 7 years. I bet if even one of Wade or Bosh (or even a Stoudemire, Joe Johnson, etc.) would have been willing to go to Cleveland, he would have stayed, but who wants to go to Cleveland?

Lest we forget Kobe's tantrums in the summer of '07 and the fact that he probably would have wanted to join another star or two if it weren't for the Gasol donation. I wonder how he would have handled himself and what he would have done if he were in LBJ's shoes for SEVEN (don't forget he only had supporting casts that weren't outstanding for THREE out of 15 years) years in Cleveland. Just be sure to keep in mind Kobe had outstanding supporting casts in 13 of 16 years and LBJ didn't even have an average caliber supporting cast for any of 7 years.

The lack of acknowledgment of degree in this discussion is frustrating.

I don't begrudge LeBron for wanting a better supporting cast. Had he just teamed up with Bosh on a team with a good #3 and good role players, I wouldn't feel this way. But he joined up with a first ballot HOFer, one of the best players in the game, and legitimate #1 guy on a championship team in Dwyane Wade AND a legit all-star in Bosh.

And for chrissakes, can we PLEASE stop comparing Pau Gasol to what Miami has. Pau Gasol is basically Chris Bosh. A legitimate all-star player who's talented and productive on the offensive end, kind of a weenie on the defensive end, and in no way, shape, or form a #1-level guy on a great team.

LeBron has that kinda guy as his #3 player, and a legit #1 as his second guy.
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by Jigga:
Like him.

Although the "Decision" was a bit tasteless, the silver lining is that its sponsporship revenue brought in approx $2M for the Boys and Girls' Club of America. Nobody really brings that up. Not to mention the fact that a majority of us watched it LIVE in anticipation of what he was going to say. A good percentage of us wanted to see him out of a Cavs uni anyway. Sucks for Cleveland fan...not for me.

Let's stop for a minute and take into account that Lebron James is arguably the most coddled, most publicized, most anointed High School athlete of our lifetime. You know what that means, right? Yup...Dude has had people wiping his a$$ during and after infancy. Signed a $100M contract with Nike before he even played an NBA game. There's reason as to why he can be douche-like...some of it is warranted IMO. Let's not kid ourselves. Some of sports' biggest figures were NOT humble human beings.

Yeah, spot on. I mean, MJ is a gigantic a-hole and he might be the most beloved athlete in history. Our very own Jerry Rice isn't Citizen of the Year either. I don't get all of the hate that LeBron gets in this respect. I "sports hate" him because he's both a rival and I think he's overrated as a player. But as a person, I don't really have an opinion. I don't know the guy.

I also think he wussed out by joining forces with Wade & Bosh.

Can't really blame him for wanting a supporting cast after that group he had in Cleveland for 7 years. I bet if even one of Wade or Bosh (or even a Stoudemire, Joe Johnson, etc.) would have been willing to go to Cleveland, he would have stayed, but who wants to go to Cleveland?

Lest we forget Kobe's tantrums in the summer of '07 and the fact that he probably would have wanted to join another star or two if it weren't for the Gasol donation. I wonder how he would have handled himself and what he would have done if he were in LBJ's shoes for SEVEN (don't forget he only had supporting casts that weren't outstanding for THREE out of 15 years) years in Cleveland. Just be sure to keep in mind Kobe had outstanding supporting casts in 13 of 16 years and LBJ didn't even have an average caliber supporting cast for any of 7 years.

The lack of acknowledgment of degree in this discussion is frustrating.

I don't begrudge LeBron for wanting a better supporting cast. Had he just teamed up with Bosh on a team with a good #3 and good role players, I wouldn't feel this way. But he joined up with a first ballot HOFer, one of the best players in the game, and legitimate #1 guy on a championship team in Dwyane Wade AND a legit all-star in Bosh.

And for chrissakes, can we PLEASE stop comparing Pau Gasol to what Miami has. Pau Gasol is basically Chris Bosh. A legitimate all-star player who's talented and productive on the offensive end, kind of a weenie on the defensive end, and in no way, shape, or form a #1-level guy on a great team.

LeBron has that kinda guy as his #3 player, and a legit #1 as his second guy.

In general that might be the case. But LBJ is a unique case. Because his supporting cast was SO pedestrian for SUCH a long period of time (roughly the entire first half of his career and the majority of his prime), it's almost like he warranted that caliber of a 2 and 3 on his team. Even as it is though, they likely still have the NBA's worst roster from #5 on down.

Kevin McHale/Robert Parish are arguably as good or better as Wade/Bosh. Does that discount what Bird did? Granted he didn't join up as free agents or whatever, but still. And the role players on those C's squad>>>>current Heat role players. It's not like LBJ is the first dude to play with a superstar 2/legit all-star 3 (the sixers and lakers of the 80's are also other examples). I also think it would have behooved him far more though if his superstar 2 were a complementary big (or even PG), not a redundant wing (an advantage of most of the other examples).
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Artest being a role player in LA does not take away from his ability to be able to be the best player on another team. That actually verifies even more the talent of the Lakers. It's no different than Bosh now being considered as a role player. If I recall, HOU without Yao was giving the Lakers major problems until the Fisher head butt. Ron Artest was playing at a very high level and has played at a very high level when called upon. Last years Lakers Championship and throughout the playoffs, Ron Artest was a HUGE factor in Lakers wins. Kobe did help the Lakers win the championship, but as you stated about Lebron needing Millers...Haslem's or whomevers help is no different than Kobe needing a lot of help last year from some of the league's best players in Artest, Pau, and Odom. Kobe didn't have the greatest NBA Finals. His highest stage last year was the PHX series.

Lakers are no different than a super team with Kobe, the biggest front court in the league, Ron Artest, and Lamar Odom coming off the bench. That's 3 of 5 players they acquired through FA/trade.

Fact is, Lebron has lead his team overall for the last 5 games. The Heat are debunking many things everyone was saying about them and Lebron is doing the same and showing how he can take over a game if he wants to.

Ron Artest in 2010 or 2011 is nowhere near one of the league's best players. He hasn't been since about 2007. Hell, we didn't even HAVE Artest for the first title. We had Trevor Ariza, who has struggled tremendously since leaving.

The idea that people think the Lakers had a super team around Kobe in the last two seasons blows my mind. Kobe had a legit all-star (Gasol), a very good player (Odom), a few good role players (injured Bynum, Artest/Ariza, and Fisher if you're being REALLY generous) and no bench. LeBron has a superstar (Wade), a legit all-star (Bosh), and a few good role players (Haslem, Miller, and Anthony/Chalmers if you're being Fisher-level generous)

Ron Artest, in 6 of his years has averaged near or at 20 ppg. Note that it wasn't about lack of talent with Artest, it was more about his mental stability. With the Kings and Hou, he was fine and averaged 18.8, 20.5, and 17.1 per game.

Now include Pau: averages 18.8 for his career and went on a 2-year role averaging just over 20 per game.

Now throw in Odom's talents and you have 3 top level players + Bynum and Kobe.

That is 3 players who can average near 20ppg a season + Odom and Bynum. Heat have 2 better players but Bosh is no different from Pau and then the Heat have a huge drop from comparing with Odom and Bynum.
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Originally posted by Joecool:
Artest being a role player in LA does not take away from his ability to be able to be the best player on another team.

There is not a single team in the league on which Ron Artest would be considered the best player. Or even the second best player.