ECF: HEAT (3) VS. BULLS(1)

Originally posted by Joecool:
Lebron James keeps debunking the all about him not being elite enough.

what is there to debunk when 1 needs great talent around him in wade and bosh. now if it was back in Ohio then yes i would agree

Originally posted by Negrodamus:

Originally posted by jrg:

Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:

Originally posted by Kalen49ers:
Bulls will need another scorer on this team going forward. They need a legit SG

I agree...get J-Rich this summer. He is a FA.

Again, this series is NOT over.

J-Rich would be good for them.

They wouldn't keep him standing at the 3pt line and actually let him attack the basket, unlike Orlando.

no need for old dudes. we need to someone who can create off of the dribble. take the pressure off of d-rose. we need to go after a pf who can shoot from the outside and bang bodies. get rid of booza and get Nene who i think is FA

Nene is one year younger than J-Rich (and has had gone through series of injuries) and how can Nene create his own shot? The guy plays in a run&gun offense, and has inflated offensive numbers.

Boozer is pretty decent at PF, Deng is fine at SF, Noah is great at Center and you have the 2nd best PG in the game (sorry, CP3 >>> Rose as a PG). All you guys need is a SG. J-Rich will be a great fit.

Maybe you guys can trade for Brandon Roy and hope he is healthy.

But, I don't why you guys are acting like the series is over. It's 3-1, Bulls win game 5 at home and the pressure is on Heat to close it out in Miami.

Derrick Rose's FG % is disgusting. Then he has more to's than assists.
How he comes up in league MVP talks is beyond me

Originally posted by Negrodamus:

Originally posted by Joecool:
Lebron James keeps debunking the all about him not being elite enough.

what is there to debunk when 1 needs great talent around him in wade and bosh. now if it was back in Ohio then yes i would agree

That team was trash without him. Very overly romaticized by the WZ. He had nothing in Cleveland. Look where they ended up the year without Lebron. Everybody needs help.

Jordan had Pippen, Grant/Rodman. Magic had Kareem, Byron Scott, James Worthy. Boston has a Big 4. Kobe had Shaq in his prime. And later Gasol and Odom and Bynum in limited times when he was healthy.

Everybody needs other good players. Duh. It doesn't take away how great Lebron is. And the closer and 4th Quarter finisher has been Lebron in the Celtics series and Bulls series...

Reading Michael Jordan/Jerry Rice worshipers talking about not liking LeBron because he's a douchebag as a person was pretty damn awesome. I only "sports hate" LeBron, because he's both a rival, and someone whose on court impact I think is grossly overrated.

This series is a good example, with some folks pushing hard for a narrative in his favor that isn't there. Miami didn't even outscore Chicago when LeBron was on the floor. As brilliant as he was in Game 3 by making simple plays and keeping the offense flowing, he stifled a ton of possessions tonight.

He was a -1, and that figure was a -7 before the end of game free throw attempts happened. By comparison, Miami outscored Chicago by 36 points in the 26 minutes that Mike Miller played. Haslem was a +25.

He has the luxury of playing great basketball every two or three games and still winning, because odds are someone else will pick up the slack. He's always gonna put the stats up because he has the ball in his hands so much, but the overall offense suffers because of it. (except in Game 3, when he was brilliant)

The difference in this series has been the tremendous suckitude of Derrick Rose.

Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Reading Michael Jordan/Jerry Rice worshipers talking about not liking LeBron because he's a douchebag as a person was pretty damn awesome. I only "sports hate" LeBron, because he's both a rival, and someone whose on court impact I think is grossly overrated.

This series is a good example, with some folks pushing hard for a narrative in his favor that isn't there. Miami didn't even outscore Chicago when LeBron was on the floor. As brilliant as he was in Game 3 by making simple plays and keeping the offense flowing, he stifled a ton of possessions tonight.

He was a -1, and that figure was a -7 before the end of game free throw attempts happened. By comparison, Miami outscored Chicago by 36 points in the 26 minutes that Mike Miller played. Haslem was a +25.

He has the luxury of playing great basketball every two or three games and still winning, because odds are someone else will pick up the slack. He's always gonna put the stats up because he has the ball in his hands so much, but the overall offense suffers because of it. (except in Game 3, when he was brilliant)

The difference in this series has been the tremendous suckitude of Derrick Rose.

Haha yea, I don't even understand why ppl care that a player is a douche?

Anyway, I agree that Lebron didn't have as good a game last night offensively - but when you play 44+ minutes out of 48 in a tie game - it's tough to be + for the game. Derrick Rose played fewer minutes than Lebron and was completely gassed by the end of regulation, and Lebron was giving 110% on the defensive end as well, whereas Rose is guarding Bibby or Chalmers mostly. That's been the most impressive thing about James. He is playin' ridiculous amounts of minutes, and is still great in the 4th quarter.

...and again, when it really mattered - Lebron delivered, on both ends of the floor, scoring wise and making the right passes, and then playing terrific defense on Rose down the stretch. Honestly, Rose has gotten maybe couple of easy baskets in each of the last 3 games and that's it. Miami's defense in playoffs is one of the best I've seen in recent times.

In the last 3 games, Bulls/Rose haven't figured out what to do. Does he need to be more aggressive? Does he need to pass the ball? They have tried both, and neither strategy resulted in a win, or found much success in the 4th quarter. Miami's D is the single biggest reason for the playoff success so far, and it starts with D-Wade and Lebron James.

This is the best I've seen Lebron play defense. He has been a pretty decent defender last few years, but he has been special this year...and that has def. hurt his efficiency on the other side a little bit - but I'll take that when your defense can restrict the other team around 90 pts consistently.

Lmao at J-Rich being an old dude

Originally posted by Brew:
Derrick Rose's FG % is disgusting. Then he has more to's than assists.
How he comes up in league MVP talks is beyond me

Yet he won the award by a landslide...so he's having a tough series against 2 potential hall of famers. Its alright though, knowing Rose, this will only make him work harder in the offseason. The kid is only 22 and so far, this series has shown that he's a young player learning what it takes to get his team to the next level. Lebron and Wade are in their prime and have been through the rigors of the postseason before, Rose is just getting started and is only going to get better.
I'm looking for a big bounce back game for the Bulls tomorrow night. Gotta keep the silly turnovers to a minimum, and hopefully Korver can actually hit a shot. I haven't given up hope yet on these Bulls. Go Bulls!!

Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Reading Michael Jordan/Jerry Rice worshipers talking about not liking LeBron because he's a douchebag as a person was pretty damn awesome. I only "sports hate" LeBron, because he's both a rival, and someone whose on court impact I think is grossly overrated.

This series is a good example, with some folks pushing hard for a narrative in his favor that isn't there. Miami didn't even outscore Chicago when LeBron was on the floor. As brilliant as he was in Game 3 by making simple plays and keeping the offense flowing, he stifled a ton of possessions tonight.

He was a -1, and that figure was a -7 before the end of game free throw attempts happened. By comparison, Miami outscored Chicago by 36 points in the 26 minutes that Mike Miller played. Haslem was a +25.

He has the luxury of playing great basketball every two or three games and still winning, because odds are someone else will pick up the slack. He's always gonna put the stats up because he has the ball in his hands so much, but the overall offense suffers because of it. (except in Game 3, when he was brilliant)

The difference in this series has been the tremendous suckitude of Derrick Rose.

Haha yea, I don't even understand why ppl care that a player is a douche?

Anyway, I agree that Lebron didn't have as good a game last night offensively - but when you play 44+ minutes out of 48 in a tie game - it's tough to be + for the game. Derrick Rose played fewer minutes than Lebron and was completely gassed by the end of regulation, and Lebron was giving 110% on the defensive end as well, whereas Rose is guarding Bibby or Chalmers mostly. That's been the most impressive thing about James. He is playin' ridiculous amounts of minutes, and is still great in the 4th quarter.

...and again, when it really mattered - Lebron delivered, on both ends of the floor, scoring wise and making the right passes, and then playing terrific defense on Rose down the stretch. Honestly, Rose has gotten maybe couple of easy baskets in each of the last 3 games and that's it. Miami's defense in playoffs is one of the best I've seen in recent times.

In the last 3 games, Bulls/Rose haven't figured out what to do. Does he need to be more aggressive? Does he need to pass the ball? They have tried both, and neither strategy resulted in a win, or found much success in the 4th quarter. Miami's D is the single biggest reason for the playoff success so far, and it starts with D-Wade and Lebron James.

This is the best I've seen Lebron play defense. He has been a pretty decent defender last few years, but he has been special this year...and that has def. hurt his efficiency on the other side a little bit - but I'll take that when your defense can restrict the other team around 90 pts consistently.

The main point is that when it has mattered, Lebron has come through and taken over games. As you said, it is very difficult having to play high level defense throughout the game, especially with his help defense in the paint. Dude actually disrupts shots and can lock a player down on the perimeter. It's easy to point out how he wasn't always playing great offense throughout a game but players like Rose or even Kobe are not required to play this intense of defense throughout a game. When was the last time you saw these guys run down players on fast breaks to block shots. Lebron has done this repeatedly.

Also, a -1 impact in a series as close as this is not something to measure the impact of a player as the games have mostly been close throughout and you can't blame Lebron for the main reason they get down which is CHI offensive rebounds. In a series as close as this, what's Lebron's +- in the 4th quarter and that will tell you his impact in the games.

LA, come closer to the Dark Side of the hate. It is strong.

Originally posted by Brew:
Derrick Rose's FG % is disgusting. Then he has more to's than assists.
How he comes up in league MVP talks is beyond me

Isn't MVP mostly about the Regular Season performance correct? If it had anything to do with playoff performance they would wait until after the Finals to announce it right?

Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:
Haha yea, I don't even understand why ppl care that a player is a douche?

Anyway, I agree that Lebron didn't have as good a game last night offensively - but when you play 44+ minutes out of 48 in a tie game - it's tough to be + for the game. Derrick Rose played fewer minutes than Lebron and was completely gassed by the end of regulation, and Lebron was giving 110% on the defensive end as well, whereas Rose is guarding Bibby or Chalmers mostly. That's been the most impressive thing about James. He is playin' ridiculous amounts of minutes, and is still great in the 4th quarter.

...and again, when it really mattered - Lebron delivered, on both ends of the floor, scoring wise and making the right passes, and then playing terrific defense on Rose down the stretch. Honestly, Rose has gotten maybe couple of easy baskets in each of the last 3 games and that's it. Miami's defense in playoffs is one of the best I've seen in recent times.

In the last 3 games, Bulls/Rose haven't figured out what to do. Does he need to be more aggressive? Does he need to pass the ball? They have tried both, and neither strategy resulted in a win, or found much success in the 4th quarter. Miami's D is the single biggest reason for the playoff success so far, and it starts with D-Wade and Lebron James.

This is the best I've seen Lebron play defense. He has been a pretty decent defender last few years, but he has been special this year...and that has def. hurt his efficiency on the other side a little bit - but I'll take that when your defense can restrict the other team around 90 pts consistently.

I disagree that he's been coming through down the stretch on both ends when it matters. Miami got exactly 2 points in the last 2 minutes of regulation, on a look that Bosh created on his own. This included an offensive foul with 8 seconds left, when LeBron had no business doing that with that much time left on the clock and it jeopardized the game. Neither he nor Miami has been very good in crunch time in this series on the offensive end, but the Bulls have been much worse. He's been great on the other side on the defensive end, as the entire team has been in 4th quarters and in the clutch. When the other team isn't scoring at all, eventually you're going to make some plays on the offensive end that win the game.

Miami's D IS the biggest single reason for their playoff success. I agree. The Bulls are averaging 15.7 points per 4th quarter in the last 3 games. LeBron has been phenomenal defensively, but so has Wade, Anthony, & Chalmers. Rose being God awful is the difference in this series, and (as you said) he's being mostly guarded by Bibby/Chalmers and whichever big is defending the pick and roll.

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:
Haha yea, I don't even understand why ppl care that a player is a douche?

Anyway, I agree that Lebron didn't have as good a game last night offensively - but when you play 44+ minutes out of 48 in a tie game - it's tough to be + for the game. Derrick Rose played fewer minutes than Lebron and was completely gassed by the end of regulation, and Lebron was giving 110% on the defensive end as well, whereas Rose is guarding Bibby or Chalmers mostly. That's been the most impressive thing about James. He is playin' ridiculous amounts of minutes, and is still great in the 4th quarter.

...and again, when it really mattered - Lebron delivered, on both ends of the floor, scoring wise and making the right passes, and then playing terrific defense on Rose down the stretch. Honestly, Rose has gotten maybe couple of easy baskets in each of the last 3 games and that's it. Miami's defense in playoffs is one of the best I've seen in recent times.

In the last 3 games, Bulls/Rose haven't figured out what to do. Does he need to be more aggressive? Does he need to pass the ball? They have tried both, and neither strategy resulted in a win, or found much success in the 4th quarter. Miami's D is the single biggest reason for the playoff success so far, and it starts with D-Wade and Lebron James.

This is the best I've seen Lebron play defense. He has been a pretty decent defender last few years, but he has been special this year...and that has def. hurt his efficiency on the other side a little bit - but I'll take that when your defense can restrict the other team around 90 pts consistently.

I disagree that he's been coming through down the stretch on both ends when it matters. Miami got exactly 2 points in the last 2 minutes of regulation, on a look that Bosh created on his own. This included an offensive foul with 8 seconds left, when LeBron had no business doing that with that much time left on the clock and it jeopardized the game. Neither he nor Miami has been very good in crunch time in this series on the offensive end, but the Bulls have been much worse. He's been great on the other side on the defensive end, as the entire team has been in 4th quarters and in the clutch. When the other team isn't scoring at all, eventually you're going to make some plays on the offensive end that win the game.

Miami's D IS the biggest single reason for their playoff success. I agree. The Bulls are averaging 15.7 points per 4th quarter in the last 3 games. LeBron has been phenomenal defensively, but so has Wade, Anthony, & Chalmers. Rose being God awful is the difference in this series, and (as you said) he's being mostly guarded by Bibby/Chalmers and whichever big is defending the pick and roll.

I think the biggest reason why Rose is having such a horrible series is the offense they are running. The Bulls have been so focused on running their plays on most possessions that good shots are being passed up so they can run the play. Also, the insistance on running pick and roll with Noah has been unsuccessful. Yes Bibby/Chalmers have been guarding Rose, but everytime they run the pick, one of the Heat bigs are always there to double up on Rose, and Noah isn't taking that jumper anymore. They should definitely run more iso, not exclusively, but more.

This whole series so far has been a battle of defenses, and so far, the Heat have been better. Omer Asik is apparently out for the rest of the postseason, which could be a good thing for the Bulls because now Kurt Thomas can get some run. With Thomas, the Bulls can run the pick and pop game, since he can actually hit a jump shot.

Originally posted by samoan49er:
I think the biggest reason why Rose is having such a horrible series is the offense they are running. The Bulls have been so focused on running their plays on most possessions that good shots are being passed up so they can run the play. Also, the insistance on running pick and roll with Noah has been unsuccessful. Yes Bibby/Chalmers have been guarding Rose, but everytime they run the pick, one of the Heat bigs are always there to double up on Rose, and Noah isn't taking that jumper anymore. They should definitely run more iso, not exclusively, but more.

This whole series so far has been a battle of defenses, and so far, the Heat have been better. Omer Asik is apparently out for the rest of the postseason, which could be a good thing for the Bulls because now Kurt Thomas can get some run. With Thomas, the Bulls can run the pick and pop game, since he can actually hit a jump shot.

I think your observations are spot on. All that pick and roll is doing is making Rose easy to double. I don't understand why you're giving Rose screens, ESPECIALLY when Bibby's guarding him. Let him break Bibby down off the dribble and draw the defense. Thomas should also help with the pick and pop, as you said. Rose has also been making some terrible decisions with the ball though, both in terms of shot selection and bad passes that lead to turnovers.

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:
Haha yea, I don't even understand why ppl care that a player is a douche?

Anyway, I agree that Lebron didn't have as good a game last night offensively - but when you play 44+ minutes out of 48 in a tie game - it's tough to be + for the game. Derrick Rose played fewer minutes than Lebron and was completely gassed by the end of regulation, and Lebron was giving 110% on the defensive end as well, whereas Rose is guarding Bibby or Chalmers mostly. That's been the most impressive thing about James. He is playin' ridiculous amounts of minutes, and is still great in the 4th quarter.

...and again, when it really mattered - Lebron delivered, on both ends of the floor, scoring wise and making the right passes, and then playing terrific defense on Rose down the stretch. Honestly, Rose has gotten maybe couple of easy baskets in each of the last 3 games and that's it. Miami's defense in playoffs is one of the best I've seen in recent times.

In the last 3 games, Bulls/Rose haven't figured out what to do. Does he need to be more aggressive? Does he need to pass the ball? They have tried both, and neither strategy resulted in a win, or found much success in the 4th quarter. Miami's D is the single biggest reason for the playoff success so far, and it starts with D-Wade and Lebron James.

This is the best I've seen Lebron play defense. He has been a pretty decent defender last few years, but he has been special this year...and that has def. hurt his efficiency on the other side a little bit - but I'll take that when your defense can restrict the other team around 90 pts consistently.

I disagree that he's been coming through down the stretch on both ends when it matters. Miami got exactly 2 points in the last 2 minutes of regulation, on a look that Bosh created on his own. This included an offensive foul with 8 seconds left, when LeBron had no business doing that with that much time left on the clock and it jeopardized the game. Neither he nor Miami has been very good in crunch time in this series on the offensive end, but the Bulls have been much worse. He's been great on the other side on the defensive end, as the entire team has been in 4th quarters and in the clutch. When the other team isn't scoring at all, eventually you're going to make some plays on the offensive end that win the game.

Miami's D IS the biggest single reason for their playoff success. I agree. The Bulls are averaging 15.7 points per 4th quarter in the last 3 games. LeBron has been phenomenal defensively, but so has Wade, Anthony, & Chalmers. Rose being God awful is the difference in this series, and (as you said) he's being mostly guarded by Bibby/Chalmers and whichever big is defending the pick and roll.

James in the 4th quarter this series:

Game 1: 3 of teams 19 points: loss
Game 2: 10 of the teams 14 points
Game 3: 10 of teams 28 points
Game 4: 7 of the 22 teams points and 6 of teams 16 points in OT

In the last three games, James has been the most consistent offensive player for the Heat in the 4th quarter. Championship caliber teams always have a different player here and there who comes through during the series (Haslem, Bosh, and Miller) but James has been the only consistent player in just about every game in the 4th quarter which is what teams with great players always have.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:
Haha yea, I don't even understand why ppl care that a player is a douche?

Anyway, I agree that Lebron didn't have as good a game last night offensively - but when you play 44+ minutes out of 48 in a tie game - it's tough to be + for the game. Derrick Rose played fewer minutes than Lebron and was completely gassed by the end of regulation, and Lebron was giving 110% on the defensive end as well, whereas Rose is guarding Bibby or Chalmers mostly. That's been the most impressive thing about James. He is playin' ridiculous amounts of minutes, and is still great in the 4th quarter.

...and again, when it really mattered - Lebron delivered, on both ends of the floor, scoring wise and making the right passes, and then playing terrific defense on Rose down the stretch. Honestly, Rose has gotten maybe couple of easy baskets in each of the last 3 games and that's it. Miami's defense in playoffs is one of the best I've seen in recent times.

In the last 3 games, Bulls/Rose haven't figured out what to do. Does he need to be more aggressive? Does he need to pass the ball? They have tried both, and neither strategy resulted in a win, or found much success in the 4th quarter. Miami's D is the single biggest reason for the playoff success so far, and it starts with D-Wade and Lebron James.

This is the best I've seen Lebron play defense. He has been a pretty decent defender last few years, but he has been special this year...and that has def. hurt his efficiency on the other side a little bit - but I'll take that when your defense can restrict the other team around 90 pts consistently.

I disagree that he's been coming through down the stretch on both ends when it matters. Miami got exactly 2 points in the last 2 minutes of regulation, on a look that Bosh created on his own. This included an offensive foul with 8 seconds left, when LeBron had no business doing that with that much time left on the clock and it jeopardized the game. Neither he nor Miami has been very good in crunch time in this series on the offensive end, but the Bulls have been much worse. He's been great on the other side on the defensive end, as the entire team has been in 4th quarters and in the clutch. When the other team isn't scoring at all, eventually you're going to make some plays on the offensive end that win the game.

Miami's D IS the biggest single reason for their playoff success. I agree. The Bulls are averaging 15.7 points per 4th quarter in the last 3 games. LeBron has been phenomenal defensively, but so has Wade, Anthony, & Chalmers. Rose being God awful is the difference in this series, and (as you said) he's being mostly guarded by Bibby/Chalmers and whichever big is defending the pick and roll.

James in the 4th quarter this series:

Game 1: 3 of teams 19 points: loss
Game 2: 10 of the teams 14 points
Game 3: 10 of teams 28 points
Game 4: 7 of the 22 teams points and 6 of teams 16 points in OT

In the last three games, James has been the most consistent offensive player for the Heat in the 4th quarter. Championship caliber teams always have a different player here and there who comes through during the series (Haslem, Bosh, and Miller) but James has been the only consistent player in just about every game in the 4th quarter which is what teams with great players always have.

Of course he's gonna put individual numbers up when he has the ball in his hands as much as he does. Look at the team points in each of those 4th quarters. Aside from Game 3, when he was great, all low totals. No one else is gonna be all that productive in 4th quarters when he dominates the ball like that. Bosh has been consistent and effective when he's gotten the ball in this series...he's just not getting it much in the 4th quarter. As a big, he can't pass the ball to himself.