General NBA Playoff Discussion

Originally posted by TheSixthRing:
Pound for pound, Jason Kidd is the best rebounder ever.

I'll go with Fat Lever for my answer.

Originally posted by valrod33:

Originally posted by Negrodamus:

Originally posted by valrod33:
Okay guys im here to settle this

Dennis rodman is the best Rebounder of all time.

You can go about your day now, I HAVE SPOKEN

now can settle the M. Jordan beef along with who were on his 1st 3peat squad. the world would be a better place. k thnx

Jordan is the best of all time and its not even close

you're welcome

even if the zen master said someone not worthy was close enough? what about the 2nd part of the ?uestion

Originally posted by Negrodamus:

Originally posted by valrod33:

Originally posted by Negrodamus:

Originally posted by valrod33:
Okay guys im here to settle this

Dennis rodman is the best Rebounder of all time.

You can go about your day now, I HAVE SPOKEN

now can settle the M. Jordan beef along with who were on his 1st 3peat squad. the world would be a better place. k thnx

Jordan is the best of all time and its not even close

you're welcome

even if the zen master said someone not worthy was close enough? what about the 2nd part of the ?uestion

49

Originally posted by valrod33:

Originally posted by Negrodamus:

Originally posted by valrod33:

Originally posted by Negrodamus:

Originally posted by valrod33:
Okay guys im here to settle this

Dennis rodman is the best Rebounder of all time.

You can go about your day now, I HAVE SPOKEN

now can settle the M. Jordan beef along with who were on his 1st 3peat squad. the world would be a better place. k thnx

Jordan is the best of all time and its not even close

you're welcome

even if the zen master said someone not worthy was close enough? what about the 2nd part of the ?uestion

49

sorry don't get it

Originally posted by Negrodamus:

Originally posted by valrod33:

Originally posted by Negrodamus:

Originally posted by valrod33:

Originally posted by Negrodamus:

Originally posted by valrod33:
Okay guys im here to settle this

Dennis rodman is the best Rebounder of all time.

You can go about your day now, I HAVE SPOKEN

now can settle the M. Jordan beef along with who were on his 1st 3peat squad. the world would be a better place. k thnx

Jordan is the best of all time and its not even close

you're welcome

even if the zen master said someone not worthy was close enough? what about the 2nd part of the ?uestion

49

sorry don't get it

nobody does but its the answer

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by blizzuntz:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by blizzuntz:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by BobS:

Originally posted by andes14:

Originally posted by BobS:

Originally posted by Joecool:
Numbers can help a lot of debates but they don't tell the entire impact of the player. Numbers can also claim that Jason Kidd was one of the best 3-point shooters in the game and his percentages are not too far behind Ray Allens'.

But, we have all seen them play and know this isn't even a close argument but 30 years from now, someone can debate this using numbers alone.

Exactly. Most of you are not 50 years old as I am and I have been watching sports since I was 5. So there is next to no one in here that has witnessed the evolution of football and basketball due to rule changes like I have. It is also rare that commentators and sports shows ever mention the evolution of the rules in these games. How many guys under 40 in here know that they used to shoot all fouls in NBA games? That offensive lineman in the NFL basically could not extend their arms when blocking? That defensive lineman could hit an offensive lineman in the head? Rule changes over the years have made it to where you just can't blindly compare stats.

Wilt was not a better rebounder than Rodman. He was loads taller than all the other bigs and Rodman was way shorter than all the other bigs and he STILL gobbled up a higher % of boards. C'mon now..

I guess you must define rebounder? Rodman led the league for many years while giving away 4 inches and 50 pounds to the average biggest guy on the court. Wilt was the biggest guy on the court, but had to contend with a lot of double teams and sometimes triple teams. True Wilt did use size and strength to dominate, but he was more athletic than people think. Rodman made rebounding an art, he seemed to know exactly what he could get away with to get position and grab rebounds with out picking up too many fouls.

I still think being a primary scorer and shot-blocker makes it much more difficult to get into position for rebounding. In fact, it usually puts a player completely out of position to rebound. Players like Wallace, Barkely, and Wilt were still considered at the top in terms of rebounding but also took on more responsibilities. Rodman had the luxury of not being a shot blocker or scorer where all he had to focus on was keeping his body between his opponent and the basket, even if he were guarding a post-up scorer.

What Kevin Love did this year, averaging 15.2 rbs/game and scoring 20 is a far greater rebounding display than what Dennis Rodman did.

Wow!

what non sense! Rodman used to study game tape on player's missed shots to see if they had a tendency to miss and bounce short, long, right and left. It was not about just boxing someone out, he was also a superb defender.

Think of Rodman as a guy of Michael Jordan's body type, and Russel's rebounding ability. Pound for pound the best rebounder of all time for sure, if not the greatest rebounder ever.

Yes, but that was all he was required to do. I don't want to take away his desire to be able to do one thing great but he was able to do one thing great because he was not required to do anything else.

ok, so by the same standard..... the body that was on Rodman had nothing to worry about except boxing him out. Yet Rodman still got his on bigger players

Rodman was primarily guarding the other teams best post scorer. Those players' responsibility was to score, not to clean-up so they were not boxing Rodman out. Since Rodman wasn't a shot blocker, his main strategy was to stay in front.

This is why Rodman didn't have the best offensive rebounding stats. The defense's primary goal was to box Rodman out. So in his best 18.7 per game year, he averaged 4.0 offensive rebounds. Charles Barkley averaged 4.0 offensive rebounds for his career. Barkley's best 14.6 rebounding year, he averaged 5.7 offensive rebounds per game.

So, does that make Barkley a better rebounder than Rodman on the offensive end?

what are you talking about?

Rodman averaged 6.4 offensive rebounds per game that year

Originally posted by blizzuntz:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by blizzuntz:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by blizzuntz:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by BobS:

Originally posted by andes14:

Originally posted by BobS:

Originally posted by Joecool:
Numbers can help a lot of debates but they don't tell the entire impact of the player. Numbers can also claim that Jason Kidd was one of the best 3-point shooters in the game and his percentages are not too far behind Ray Allens'.

But, we have all seen them play and know this isn't even a close argument but 30 years from now, someone can debate this using numbers alone.

Exactly. Most of you are not 50 years old as I am and I have been watching sports since I was 5. So there is next to no one in here that has witnessed the evolution of football and basketball due to rule changes like I have. It is also rare that commentators and sports shows ever mention the evolution of the rules in these games. How many guys under 40 in here know that they used to shoot all fouls in NBA games? That offensive lineman in the NFL basically could not extend their arms when blocking? That defensive lineman could hit an offensive lineman in the head? Rule changes over the years have made it to where you just can't blindly compare stats.

Wilt was not a better rebounder than Rodman. He was loads taller than all the other bigs and Rodman was way shorter than all the other bigs and he STILL gobbled up a higher % of boards. C'mon now..

I guess you must define rebounder? Rodman led the league for many years while giving away 4 inches and 50 pounds to the average biggest guy on the court. Wilt was the biggest guy on the court, but had to contend with a lot of double teams and sometimes triple teams. True Wilt did use size and strength to dominate, but he was more athletic than people think. Rodman made rebounding an art, he seemed to know exactly what he could get away with to get position and grab rebounds with out picking up too many fouls.

I still think being a primary scorer and shot-blocker makes it much more difficult to get into position for rebounding. In fact, it usually puts a player completely out of position to rebound. Players like Wallace, Barkely, and Wilt were still considered at the top in terms of rebounding but also took on more responsibilities. Rodman had the luxury of not being a shot blocker or scorer where all he had to focus on was keeping his body between his opponent and the basket, even if he were guarding a post-up scorer.

What Kevin Love did this year, averaging 15.2 rbs/game and scoring 20 is a far greater rebounding display than what Dennis Rodman did.

Wow!

what non sense! Rodman used to study game tape on player's missed shots to see if they had a tendency to miss and bounce short, long, right and left. It was not about just boxing someone out, he was also a superb defender.

Think of Rodman as a guy of Michael Jordan's body type, and Russel's rebounding ability. Pound for pound the best rebounder of all time for sure, if not the greatest rebounder ever.

Yes, but that was all he was required to do. I don't want to take away his desire to be able to do one thing great but he was able to do one thing great because he was not required to do anything else.

ok, so by the same standard..... the body that was on Rodman had nothing to worry about except boxing him out. Yet Rodman still got his on bigger players

Rodman was primarily guarding the other teams best post scorer. Those players' responsibility was to score, not to clean-up so they were not boxing Rodman out. Since Rodman wasn't a shot blocker, his main strategy was to stay in front.

This is why Rodman didn't have the best offensive rebounding stats. The defense's primary goal was to box Rodman out. So in his best 18.7 per game year, he averaged 4.0 offensive rebounds. Charles Barkley averaged 4.0 offensive rebounds for his career. Barkley's best 14.6 rebounding year, he averaged 5.7 offensive rebounds per game.

So, does that make Barkley a better rebounder than Rodman on the offensive end?

what are you talking about?

Rodman averaged 6.4 offensive rebounds per game that year

Ah s**t! I read the wrong line. Either way, Barkley had a higher ORB percentage to his total rebounding. Also, if you look at career numbers: Barkley's 11.7 to Rodman's 13.1. Rodman wasn't a "great" rebounder until that was all that he was asked to do. Actually, until he focused more on rebounds, he was not even a double digit rebounder his first 4 years.

I'm just saying, he was a great rebounder because that's all he focused on. It doesn't mean that he would outrebound a guy like Wilt or Shaq or even Barkley if that's all they needed to do.

Now, let's do take into consideration better competition. In his playoffs career, his rebounding dropped considerably to 9.9 per game. This is where teams are tougher and play tougher. He never kept his rebounding averages (if so, rarely) from the regular season to the playoffs. Charles Barkley on the other hand, increased his rebounding average in the playoffs grabbing 12.8 per game.

Rodman, if focused on or up against tougher competition, is not the best rebounder ever.

Someone who should be considered the "greatest" at something should be able to equal that output in the playoffs also but he drastically declined.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by blizzuntz:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by blizzuntz:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by blizzuntz:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by BobS:

Originally posted by andes14:

Originally posted by BobS:

Originally posted by Joecool:
Numbers can help a lot of debates but they don't tell the entire impact of the player. Numbers can also claim that Jason Kidd was one of the best 3-point shooters in the game and his percentages are not too far behind Ray Allens'.

But, we have all seen them play and know this isn't even a close argument but 30 years from now, someone can debate this using numbers alone.

Exactly. Most of you are not 50 years old as I am and I have been watching sports since I was 5. So there is next to no one in here that has witnessed the evolution of football and basketball due to rule changes like I have. It is also rare that commentators and sports shows ever mention the evolution of the rules in these games. How many guys under 40 in here know that they used to shoot all fouls in NBA games? That offensive lineman in the NFL basically could not extend their arms when blocking? That defensive lineman could hit an offensive lineman in the head? Rule changes over the years have made it to where you just can't blindly compare stats.

Wilt was not a better rebounder than Rodman. He was loads taller than all the other bigs and Rodman was way shorter than all the other bigs and he STILL gobbled up a higher % of boards. C'mon now..

I guess you must define rebounder? Rodman led the league for many years while giving away 4 inches and 50 pounds to the average biggest guy on the court. Wilt was the biggest guy on the court, but had to contend with a lot of double teams and sometimes triple teams. True Wilt did use size and strength to dominate, but he was more athletic than people think. Rodman made rebounding an art, he seemed to know exactly what he could get away with to get position and grab rebounds with out picking up too many fouls.

I still think being a primary scorer and shot-blocker makes it much more difficult to get into position for rebounding. In fact, it usually puts a player completely out of position to rebound. Players like Wallace, Barkely, and Wilt were still considered at the top in terms of rebounding but also took on more responsibilities. Rodman had the luxury of not being a shot blocker or scorer where all he had to focus on was keeping his body between his opponent and the basket, even if he were guarding a post-up scorer.

What Kevin Love did this year, averaging 15.2 rbs/game and scoring 20 is a far greater rebounding display than what Dennis Rodman did.

Wow!

what non sense! Rodman used to study game tape on player's missed shots to see if they had a tendency to miss and bounce short, long, right and left. It was not about just boxing someone out, he was also a superb defender.

Think of Rodman as a guy of Michael Jordan's body type, and Russel's rebounding ability. Pound for pound the best rebounder of all time for sure, if not the greatest rebounder ever.

Yes, but that was all he was required to do. I don't want to take away his desire to be able to do one thing great but he was able to do one thing great because he was not required to do anything else.

ok, so by the same standard..... the body that was on Rodman had nothing to worry about except boxing him out. Yet Rodman still got his on bigger players

Rodman was primarily guarding the other teams best post scorer. Those players' responsibility was to score, not to clean-up so they were not boxing Rodman out. Since Rodman wasn't a shot blocker, his main strategy was to stay in front.

This is why Rodman didn't have the best offensive rebounding stats. The defense's primary goal was to box Rodman out. So in his best 18.7 per game year, he averaged 4.0 offensive rebounds. Charles Barkley averaged 4.0 offensive rebounds for his career. Barkley's best 14.6 rebounding year, he averaged 5.7 offensive rebounds per game.

So, does that make Barkley a better rebounder than Rodman on the offensive end?

what are you talking about?

Rodman averaged 6.4 offensive rebounds per game that year

Ah s**t! I read the wrong line. Either way, Barkley had a higher ORB percentage to his total rebounding. Also, if you look at career numbers: Barkley's 11.7 to Rodman's 13.1. Rodman wasn't a "great" rebounder until that was all that he was asked to do. Actually, until he focused more on rebounds, he was not even a double digit rebounder his first 4 years.

I'm just saying, he was a great rebounder because that's all he focused on. It doesn't mean that he would outrebound a guy like Wilt or Shaq or even Barkley if that's all they needed to do.

Now, let's do take into consideration better competition. In his playoffs career, his rebounding dropped considerably to 9.9 per game. This is where teams are tougher and play tougher. He never kept his rebounding averages (if so, rarely) from the regular season to the playoffs. Charles Barkley on the other hand, increased his rebounding average in the playoffs grabbing 12.8 per game.

Rodman, if focused on or up against tougher competition, is not the best rebounder ever.

Someone who should be considered the "greatest" at something should be able to equal that output in the playoffs also but he drastically declined.

Just divide playoff rebounds by playoff minutes for their careers and there goes your answer.

Originally posted by valrod33:

Originally posted by Negrodamus:

Originally posted by valrod33:
Okay guys im here to settle this

Dennis rodman is the best Rebounder of all time.

You can go about your day now, I HAVE SPOKEN

now can settle the M. Jordan beef along with who were on his 1st 3peat squad. the world would be a better place. k thnx

Jordan is the best of all time and its not even close

you're welcome

Monta > Jordan

Originally posted by TheGoldenState:

Originally posted by valrod33:

Originally posted by Negrodamus:

Originally posted by valrod33:
Okay guys im here to settle this

Dennis rodman is the best Rebounder of all time.

You can go about your day now, I HAVE SPOKEN

now can settle the M. Jordan beef along with who were on his 1st 3peat squad. the world would be a better place. k thnx

Jordan is the best of all time and its not even close

you're welcome

Monta > Jordan

Curry > Monta

Originally posted by monsterzero789:

Originally posted by TheGoldenState:

Originally posted by valrod33:

Originally posted by Negrodamus:

Originally posted by valrod33:
Okay guys im here to settle this

Dennis rodman is the best Rebounder of all time.

You can go about your day now, I HAVE SPOKEN

now can settle the M. Jordan beef along with who were on his 1st 3peat squad. the world would be a better place. k thnx

Jordan is the best of all time and its not even close

you're welcome

Monta > Jordan

Curry > Monta

Not yet. Maybe next year or 2 years from now

but Monta still > Jordan

Originally posted by monsterzero789:

Originally posted by TheGoldenState:

Originally posted by valrod33:

Originally posted by Negrodamus:

Originally posted by valrod33:
Okay guys im here to settle this

Dennis rodman is the best Rebounder of all time.

You can go about your day now, I HAVE SPOKEN

now can settle the M. Jordan beef along with who were on his 1st 3peat squad. the world would be a better place. k thnx

Jordan is the best of all time and its not even close

you're welcome

Monta > Jordan

Curry > Monta

Random thought- unless I'm mistaken, didn't every single play-off series this year that was tied at 2-2 have the home team winning game 5? Hell, even at 3-1 the only series I can think of where the road team won game 5 was in the ECF. It's like it's harder to win a game 5 on the road than a game 7...interesting trend, especially because every series went at least 5 except for DAL-LAL and BOS-NYK.