Pacquiao vs. Margarito - November 13, 2010 / Cowboys Stadium

Originally posted by MoistButtCheeks:
Okay i'll chime in. They have both put hands on basically the same guys. So we have a "push" there.

At this point I dont think its size but speed and agility we want to see Pac face. I have to give PBF the 1up because he did take on Mosely. I mean does anyone really think Margo is comparable to SSM?

I think that is the best fight for fans now SSM vs Pac. Unless Pac decides to fight one of the younger guys, who are not even ready for him. It is a little suspect why that fight cant be made. SSM has been begging everyone the last 8 years for a fight.

keywords there "At this point"

3 years ago SIZE is exactly what everyone wanted to see if Manny could handle. Over the last 3 years this is exactly what Manny has proved that he has no problem with.

So lets not forget that. We are just now at the point where everyone is convinced he is a Giant killer.

OK

So now it is on to speed and agility. Thats fine...but its not that easy, because it will have to be somebody who compares to Pacmans speed and agility. You have already eliminated 99% of the world population just right there in that requirement

[ Edited by danimal on Nov 19, 2010 at 11:33:35 ]

All f**ken gayweather has to do is agree to fight manny.

manny is not ducking him. he's the one that's calling gayweather out.
i' don't understand why hopkins gotta butt in and try to defend these "black fighters"

bunch of bulls**t to me!!!

make it simple and give EVERYONE what they wanna see....

gayweather vs. pacquiao

settle it once and for all!!!!

Originally posted by SoCal9ers:
All f**ken gayweather has to do is agree to fight manny.

manny is not ducking him. he's the one that's calling gayweather out.
i' don't understand why hopkins gotta butt in and try to defend these "black fighters"

bunch of bulls**t to me!!!

make it simple and give EVERYONE what they wanna see....

gayweather vs. pacquiao

settle it once and for all!!!!

Dude why waste energy on this? Floyd is not gonna fight this dude.

Originally posted by binary2nd:

Originally posted by SoCal9ers:
All f**ken gayweather has to do is agree to fight manny.

manny is not ducking him. he's the one that's calling gayweather out.
i' don't understand why hopkins gotta butt in and try to defend these "black fighters"

bunch of bulls**t to me!!!

make it simple and give EVERYONE what they wanna see....

gayweather vs. pacquiao

settle it once and for all!!!!

Dude why waste energy on this? Floyd is not gonna fight this dude.

it's just funny how hopkins wanna come out and defend these "inner street black fighters"

like WTF did it not cross your damaged brain that manny's to fight gayweather.

i know i shouldn't waste my time on this, but i see what's gayweather is trying to do and that's wait it out a couple more years until manny is beatable

Originally posted by danimal:

Originally posted by MoistButtCheeks:
Okay i'll chime in. They have both put hands on basically the same guys. So we have a "push" there.

At this point I dont think its size but speed and agility we want to see Pac face. I have to give PBF the 1up because he did take on Mosely. I mean does anyone really think Margo is comparable to SSM?

I think that is the best fight for fans now SSM vs Pac. Unless Pac decides to fight one of the younger guys, who are not even ready for him. It is a little suspect why that fight cant be made. SSM has been begging everyone the last 8 years for a fight.

keywords there "At this point"

3 years ago SIZE is exactly what everyone wanted to see if Manny could handle. Over the last 3 years this is exactly what Manny has proved that he has no problem with.

So lets not forget that. We are just now at the point where everyone is convinced he is a Giant killer.

OK

So now it is on to speed and agility. Thats fine...but its not that easy, because it will have to be somebody who compares to Pacmans speed and agility. You have already eliminated 99% of the world population just right there in that requirement

Giant killer? Hatton? Cotto? Dehydrated DLH? Garbage ass Clottey? Hatton and Cotto are comparable sizes to Manny. After DLH Manny was accustomed to that weight. Fatton doesn't know what defense is. All anyone has to do against Cotto is take him the distance and pressure him.

Margs is somewhat of a giant compared to Manny, but why do we still act shocked at Manny's agility? Margs is one of the slowest in the bizz, in both hands AND feet, like seriously just look at his old videos... Manny's agility more than cancels out Marg's size. What else does Margo bring to the table? Just look at the Vegas odds, that should tell you everything.

Besides Oscar and Margo these guys aren't giants.

I think Mosley would be a good fight for Pac and the fans though even this late in his career. He may not be the most agile but he does have fast hands still. and a granite chin as well, which is his key to victory. Not to mention that he KO's at a higher percentage than a lot of NBA players can shoot free throws, his other key to victory. Although Manny will be hitting from all angles, he's shown that he can leave himself open every now and then. I'd expect Manny to win most rounds and most likely win a majority decision but I could see Shane putting down Pac. So granite chin and true power, that's something Pac hasn't been up against. Would be interesting IMO. This is the match that should have happened instead of Cotto.

[ Edited by silkyjohnson on Nov 19, 2010 at 12:13:16 ]

Originally posted by silkyjohnson:

Originally posted by danimal:

Originally posted by MoistButtCheeks:
Okay i'll chime in. They have both put hands on basically the same guys. So we have a "push" there.

At this point I dont think its size but speed and agility we want to see Pac face. I have to give PBF the 1up because he did take on Mosely. I mean does anyone really think Margo is comparable to SSM?

I think that is the best fight for fans now SSM vs Pac. Unless Pac decides to fight one of the younger guys, who are not even ready for him. It is a little suspect why that fight cant be made. SSM has been begging everyone the last 8 years for a fight.

keywords there "At this point"

3 years ago SIZE is exactly what everyone wanted to see if Manny could handle. Over the last 3 years this is exactly what Manny has proved that he has no problem with.

So lets not forget that. We are just now at the point where everyone is convinced he is a Giant killer.

OK

So now it is on to speed and agility. Thats fine...but its not that easy, because it will have to be somebody who compares to Pacmans speed and agility. You have already eliminated 99% of the world population just right there in that requirement

Giant killer? Hatton? Cotto? Dehydrated DLH? Garbage ass Clottey? Hatton and Cotto are comparable sizes to Manny. After DLH Manny was accustomed to that weight. Fatton doesn't know what defense is. All anyone has to do against Cotto is take him the distance and pressure him.

Margs is somewhat of a giant compared to Manny, but why do we still act shocked at Manny's agility? Margs is one of the slowest in the bizz, in both hands AND feet, like seriously just look at his old videos... Manny's agility more than cancels out Marg's size. What else does Margo bring to the table? Just look at the Vegas odds, that should tell you everything.

Besides Oscar and Margo these guys aren't giants.

I think Mosley would be a good fight for Pac and the fans though even this late in his career. He may not be the most agile but he does have fast hands still. and a granite chin as well, which is his key to victory. Not to mention that he KO's at a higher percentage than a lot of NBA players can shoot free throws, his other key to victory. Although Manny will be hitting from all angles, he's shown that he can leave himself open every now and then. I'd expect Manny to win most rounds and most likely win a majority decision but I could see Shane putting down Pac. So granite chin and true power, that's something Pac hasn't been up against. Would be interesting IMO. This is the match that should have happened instead of Cotto.

My main point is there is a very finite number you can expect any fighter to fight in a year. Its all too easy......AFTER the fact; that you can complain about how it should have been that fight or it should have been this fight.

What I am saying is, no fight promoter can ever make EVERYBODY happy. Clearly the promoters have been pitting Manny against heavier and taller fighters than himself, because many fans wanted to see that. PERIOD.

Only now do the majority of the fans not have any interest in Manny vs Size. So only from this point forward can we be critical if his next opponent is not a fast and agile type of boxer.

Keep in mind, Manny should retire sooner than later.

Totally aside from Manny or Mayweather. I have never liked how critical boxing fans are of fights. Its not an easy f**king thing to do to pick the perfect fights. Whose fault is it that there is a serious lack of developed talent in this sport? Don't blame the sport...blame common sense on that. Most athletic people will steer themselves away from combative sports.

Ideally I would have liked to see Manny fight this type of boxer exclusively over the last couple of years

- experienced and fully developed
- BUT, not old and past his prime
- 5-7 to 5-10
- 140 to 150 lbs
- very fast, very agile
- tough chin
- some power

Who fits this mold?

Originally posted by SoCal9ers:

Originally posted by binary2nd:

Originally posted by SoCal9ers:
All f**ken gayweather has to do is agree to fight manny.

manny is not ducking him. he's the one that's calling gayweather out.
i' don't understand why hopkins gotta butt in and try to defend these "black fighters"

bunch of bulls**t to me!!!

make it simple and give EVERYONE what they wanna see....

gayweather vs. pacquiao

settle it once and for all!!!!

Dude why waste energy on this? Floyd is not gonna fight this dude.

it's just funny how hopkins wanna come out and defend these "inner street black fighters"

like WTF did it not cross your damaged brain that manny's to fight gayweather.

i know i shouldn't waste my time on this, but i see what's gayweather is trying to do and that's wait it out a couple more years until manny is beatable

Playing the Race Card is soooooo overused....

Originally posted by danimal:

Originally posted by silkyjohnson:

Originally posted by danimal:

Originally posted by MoistButtCheeks:
Okay i'll chime in. They have both put hands on basically the same guys. So we have a "push" there.

At this point I dont think its size but speed and agility we want to see Pac face. I have to give PBF the 1up because he did take on Mosely. I mean does anyone really think Margo is comparable to SSM?

I think that is the best fight for fans now SSM vs Pac. Unless Pac decides to fight one of the younger guys, who are not even ready for him. It is a little suspect why that fight cant be made. SSM has been begging everyone the last 8 years for a fight.

keywords there "At this point"

3 years ago SIZE is exactly what everyone wanted to see if Manny could handle. Over the last 3 years this is exactly what Manny has proved that he has no problem with.

So lets not forget that. We are just now at the point where everyone is convinced he is a Giant killer.

OK

So now it is on to speed and agility. Thats fine...but its not that easy, because it will have to be somebody who compares to Pacmans speed and agility. You have already eliminated 99% of the world population just right there in that requirement

Giant killer? Hatton? Cotto? Dehydrated DLH? Garbage ass Clottey? Hatton and Cotto are comparable sizes to Manny. After DLH Manny was accustomed to that weight. Fatton doesn't know what defense is. All anyone has to do against Cotto is take him the distance and pressure him.

Margs is somewhat of a giant compared to Manny, but why do we still act shocked at Manny's agility? Margs is one of the slowest in the bizz, in both hands AND feet, like seriously just look at his old videos... Manny's agility more than cancels out Marg's size. What else does Margo bring to the table? Just look at the Vegas odds, that should tell you everything.

Besides Oscar and Margo these guys aren't giants.

I think Mosley would be a good fight for Pac and the fans though even this late in his career. He may not be the most agile but he does have fast hands still. and a granite chin as well, which is his key to victory. Not to mention that he KO's at a higher percentage than a lot of NBA players can shoot free throws, his other key to victory. Although Manny will be hitting from all angles, he's shown that he can leave himself open every now and then. I'd expect Manny to win most rounds and most likely win a majority decision but I could see Shane putting down Pac. So granite chin and true power, that's something Pac hasn't been up against. Would be interesting IMO. This is the match that should have happened instead of Cotto.

My main point is there is a very finite number you can expect any fighter to fight in a year. Its all too easy......AFTER the fact; that you can complain about how it should have been that fight or it should have been this fight.

What I am saying is, no fight promoter can ever make EVERYBODY happy. Clearly the promoters have been pitting Manny against heavier and taller fighters than himself, because many fans wanted to see that. PERIOD.

Only now do the majority of the fans not have any interest in Manny vs Size. So only from this point forward can we be critical if his next opponent is not a fast and agile type of boxer.

Keep in mind, Manny should retire sooner than later.

Totally aside from Manny or Mayweather. I have never liked how critical boxing fans are of fights. Its not an easy f**king thing to do to pick the perfect fights. Whose fault is it that there is a serious lack of developed talent in this sport? Don't blame the sport...blame common sense on that. Most athletic people will steer themselves away from combative sports.

Ideally I would have liked to see Manny fight this type of boxer exclusively over the last couple of years

- experienced and fully developed
- BUT, not old and past his prime
- 5-7 to 5-10
- 140 to 150 lbs
- very fast, very agile
- tough chin
- some power

Who fits this mold?

I could understand him taking on Hatton. I mean he had only previously lost to Mayweather and it made for an interesting, if not predictable, matchup. Cotto, f**k no, take Mosley. He was begging for it. Cotto was recently battered, everyone thought Mosley made for a more interesting opponent. Clottey? GTFO... just take the 14 days and fight Mayweather. Margarito? Right as the fight was rumored, boxing fans were outraged.

I and many boxing fans were complaining before "the fact". The fact is he had better, more legitimate options that fans wanted to see at every turn and if he had taken the other options and beaten them, he would be a more legitimate "legend" I guess, especially in the eyes of his critics, which he has many of. But he's always taken the easier route, Roach makes mention of this all the time, I don't see why it's so hard for everyone else to admit. It's not that I don't recognize his tremendous talent, it's just that I would like him to put it up against opposition that would actually cause him a problem, and then I wouldn't mind at all if people treated him as the 2nd coming of Jesus. But it's the casual fan that forms the largest opinion, and with the right promotion, all they see is a big dude with a recognizable name regardless of anything else he may (or may not) bring to the table.

Originally posted by silkyjohnson:

Originally posted by danimal:

Originally posted by silkyjohnson:

Originally posted by danimal:

Originally posted by MoistButtCheeks:
Okay i'll chime in. They have both put hands on basically the same guys. So we have a "push" there.

At this point I dont think its size but speed and agility we want to see Pac face. I have to give PBF the 1up because he did take on Mosely. I mean does anyone really think Margo is comparable to SSM?

I think that is the best fight for fans now SSM vs Pac. Unless Pac decides to fight one of the younger guys, who are not even ready for him. It is a little suspect why that fight cant be made. SSM has been begging everyone the last 8 years for a fight.

keywords there "At this point"

3 years ago SIZE is exactly what everyone wanted to see if Manny could handle. Over the last 3 years this is exactly what Manny has proved that he has no problem with.

So lets not forget that. We are just now at the point where everyone is convinced he is a Giant killer.

OK

So now it is on to speed and agility. Thats fine...but its not that easy, because it will have to be somebody who compares to Pacmans speed and agility. You have already eliminated 99% of the world population just right there in that requirement

Giant killer? Hatton? Cotto? Dehydrated DLH? Garbage ass Clottey? Hatton and Cotto are comparable sizes to Manny. After DLH Manny was accustomed to that weight. Fatton doesn't know what defense is. All anyone has to do against Cotto is take him the distance and pressure him.

Margs is somewhat of a giant compared to Manny, but why do we still act shocked at Manny's agility? Margs is one of the slowest in the bizz, in both hands AND feet, like seriously just look at his old videos... Manny's agility more than cancels out Marg's size. What else does Margo bring to the table? Just look at the Vegas odds, that should tell you everything.

Besides Oscar and Margo these guys aren't giants.

I think Mosley would be a good fight for Pac and the fans though even this late in his career. He may not be the most agile but he does have fast hands still. and a granite chin as well, which is his key to victory. Not to mention that he KO's at a higher percentage than a lot of NBA players can shoot free throws, his other key to victory. Although Manny will be hitting from all angles, he's shown that he can leave himself open every now and then. I'd expect Manny to win most rounds and most likely win a majority decision but I could see Shane putting down Pac. So granite chin and true power, that's something Pac hasn't been up against. Would be interesting IMO. This is the match that should have happened instead of Cotto.

My main point is there is a very finite number you can expect any fighter to fight in a year. Its all too easy......AFTER the fact; that you can complain about how it should have been that fight or it should have been this fight.

What I am saying is, no fight promoter can ever make EVERYBODY happy. Clearly the promoters have been pitting Manny against heavier and taller fighters than himself, because many fans wanted to see that. PERIOD.

Only now do the majority of the fans not have any interest in Manny vs Size. So only from this point forward can we be critical if his next opponent is not a fast and agile type of boxer.

Keep in mind, Manny should retire sooner than later.

Totally aside from Manny or Mayweather. I have never liked how critical boxing fans are of fights. Its not an easy f**king thing to do to pick the perfect fights. Whose fault is it that there is a serious lack of developed talent in this sport? Don't blame the sport...blame common sense on that. Most athletic people will steer themselves away from combative sports.

Ideally I would have liked to see Manny fight this type of boxer exclusively over the last couple of years

- experienced and fully developed
- BUT, not old and past his prime
- 5-7 to 5-10
- 140 to 150 lbs
- very fast, very agile
- tough chin
- some power

Who fits this mold?

I could understand him taking on Hatton. I mean he had only previously lost to Mayweather and it made for an interesting, if not predictable, matchup. Cotto, f**k no, take Mosley. He was begging for it. Cotto was recently battered, everyone thought Mosley made for a more interesting opponent. Clottey? GTFO... just take the 14 days and fight Mayweather. Margarito? Right as the fight was rumored, boxing fans were outraged.

I and many boxing fans were complaining before "the fact". The fact is he had better, more legitimate options that fans wanted to see at every turn and if he had taken the other options and beaten them, he would be a more legitimate "legend" I guess, especially in the eyes of his critics, which he has many of. But he's always taken the easier route, Roach makes mention of this all the time, I don't see why it's so hard for everyone else to admit. It's not that I don't recognize his tremendous talent, it's just that I would like him to put it up against opposition that would actually cause him a problem, and then I wouldn't mind at all if people treated him as the 2nd coming of Jesus. But it's the casual fan that forms the largest opinion, and with the right promotion, all they see is a big dude with a recognizable name regardless of anything else he may (or may not) bring to the table.

Again. Its the lack of options that is the root problem. Notice how you only list one other option to each fight he took. Now if you can name a half dozen other options than you would be on to something. You can't be too critical of Arum - Roach - Pacquiao with these choices.

You say he should have taken Shane over Cotto. Had he, the argument would have been he beat up an old dude and dodged a guy in his prime

All I really wanted to see was Pacquiao vs Mayweather. Too bad Mayweather is well Mayweather.

Too bad there wasn't a guy out there just like Mayweather but without all the douchiness. Too bad there wasn't another Pacquiao out there without his superstitions.

Too bad boxing is wholly dependant on 2 guys and they don't have more talent

just re-watched pac / cotto yesterday.. that was probably the most exciting fight he's had in a while.. after watching that i can see why money may don't wanna fight him

Margarito was no joke.

Manny aka little Mac just worked him.

Not only did he beat the bigger man, he destroyed him.
It's unbelievable.

Sergio Martinez isn't as fast,but he's a southpaw.

A POWERFUL southpaw.

Originally posted by TonyStarks:
Margarito was no joke.

Manny aka little Mac just worked him.

Not only did he beat the bigger man, he destroyed him.
It's unbelievable.

Sergio Martinez isn't as fast,but he's a southpaw.

A POWERFUL southpaw.

^^ Haha! Manny looks like he's smiling, too. And that's the damage even with Manny backing off and pleading with the ref last couple of rounds to stop the fight already.

As of right now, I really want to see Martinez vs Pacman more than a Mayweather bout

First and foremost, it there is a PBF vs Pacman bout, I'll be stoked , but at this point I'm tired of the ducking and the b*tching

Second, I'm going to eat my crow and state Martinez clearly has shown to be a true contender. He beat Pavlik, avenged his loss to Williams, and since Williams beat Cintron and Martinez had a draw with contron, clearly shows he's fighting at a high level. Only negative would be he'd fight at a 156lb catchweight, which would mean he'd rehydrate back up to a weight difference similar to the Margarito fight, which Pacman has said he's hesitant about.

Finally, if the Martinez fight appears to be too high of a catchweight and PBF ducks again, here's a list of fighters most likely to fight Manny:

1. Andre Berto: Since Mike Jones pretty much got beat outside of the scorecard (thanks Arum), he clearly isn't ready for Berto. This fight would fit the bill for money making purposes:
- Youth vs Experience
- Champion vs Champion
- 140-147lb weight limit Manny wants
- Both speedy fighters with elusive power
- For Hopkins, will be Manny's first black American fighter
- Will bring enough interest to make money

2. Amir Khan: Okay, I've bashed Khan on the Boxing thread as a fight for Manny, but with his upcoming bout against Maidana, he might have the name recognition afterwards to allow a bout to occur. Not to mention, Khan brings a HUGE European following, the PPV numbers could get pretty high. This match might actually be the most likely out of the five possible contenders, but will put it below due to my own personal bias ....lol

3. Juan Marquez: Would be a rematch at a lower weight class (pro-Manny), but Marquez got destroyed their second bout, destroyed by PBF (granted he ought at too heavy of a weight-class), and even Pacman wouldn't want to fight him again b/c he knows he'll lose money. Only positive would be Manny would have more titles, but in a weight class he's already conquered previously.


Okay, so after much thought and process, here's my theory on the next Pacman bout:

He will fight Amir Khan

As much as I would prefer a Martinez, PBF, or Berto bout, Khan provides the youth factor Berto does, lighter weight class Manny wants, and the legion of loyal European fans Arum loves to get PPV numbers.

I think the best overall fight would be Martinez (talent-wise he would give Manny the best challenge), he's just too big and Manny can't keep moving up weight classes and it wouldn't be fair to make Martinez drop so much weight (prolly would want to fight at the 150lb weight at most).

Berto Will still be very possible, it depends on how well he gets his name out this weekend (and better hope Khan loses) so he can make a HUGE payday





I've omitted Mosely b/c he's past his prime and is clearly just trying to get paid before he retires. He doesn't deserve a Manny bout and Manny doesn't owe him shyt



FYI, will repost this in Boxing thread just in case this thread gets locked soon

Originally posted by Crazy49er1313:
As of right now, I really want to see Martinez vs Pacman more than a Mayweather bout

First and foremost, it there is a PBF vs Pacman bout, I'll be stoked , but at this point I'm tired of the ducking and the b*tching

Second, I'm going to eat my crow and state Martinez clearly has shown to be a true contender. He beat Pavlik, avenged his loss to Williams, and since Williams beat Cintron and Martinez had a draw with contron, clearly shows he's fighting at a high level. Only negative would be he'd fight at a 156lb catchweight, which would mean he'd rehydrate back up to a weight difference similar to the Margarito fight, which Pacman has said he's hesitant about.

Finally, if the Martinez fight appears to be too high of a catchweight and PBF ducks again, here's a list of fighters most likely to fight Manny:

1. Andre Berto: Since Mike Jones pretty much got beat outside of the scorecard (thanks Arum), he clearly isn't ready for Berto. This fight would fit the bill for money making purposes:
- Youth vs Experience
- Champion vs Champion
- 140-147lb weight limit Manny wants
- Both speedy fighters with elusive power
- For Hopkins, will be Manny's first black American fighter
- Will bring enough interest to make money

2. Amir Khan: Okay, I've bashed Khan on the Boxing thread as a fight for Manny, but with his upcoming bout against Maidana, he might have the name recognition afterwards to allow a bout to occur. Not to mention, Khan brings a HUGE European following, the PPV numbers could get pretty high. This match might actually be the most likely out of the five possible contenders, but will put it below due to my own personal bias ....lol

3. Juan Marquez: Would be a rematch at a lower weight class (pro-Manny), but Marquez got destroyed their second bout, destroyed by PBF (granted he ought at too heavy of a weight-class), and even Pacman wouldn't want to fight him again b/c he knows he'll lose money. Only positive would be Manny would have more titles, but in a weight class he's already conquered previously.


Okay, so after much thought and process, here's my theory on the next Pacman bout:

He will fight Amir Khan

As much as I would prefer a Martinez, PBF, or Berto bout, Khan provides the youth factor Berto does, lighter weight class Manny wants, and the legion of loyal European fans Arum loves to get PPV numbers.

I think the best overall fight would be Martinez (talent-wise he would give Manny the best challenge), he's just too big and Manny can't keep moving up weight classes and it wouldn't be fair to make Martinez drop so much weight (prolly would want to fight at the 150lb weight at most).

Berto Will still be very possible, it depends on how well he gets his name out this weekend (and better hope Khan loses) so he can make a HUGE payday





I've omitted Mosely b/c he's past his prime and is clearly just trying to get paid before he retires. He doesn't deserve a Manny bout and Manny doesn't owe him shyt



FYI, will repost this in Boxing thread just in case this thread gets locked soon

khan huh.. let's see if you're right.. i just read his bio.. roach used to train him?