MMA vs Boxing question

Originally posted by silkyjohnson:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by silkyjohnson:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
Two words that describe MMA - Vale Tudo.

Two words that describes boxing - One-dimensional

James Toney!!!

I seem to recall Ray Mercer knocking out Tim Sylvia

I seem to recall, Couture shooting in and Toney not having a chance in hell. How about example #2, Ray Mercer getting owned by one of the lowest level MMA fighters in Kimbo Slice.

How about Vitor Belfort crossing over and making his Pro debut in Boxing.

MMA>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Boxing

Toney and Mercer only fight to collect a paycheck. You can just look at their bodies and see that they're not taking these fights too seriously anymore. If anything they're probally loving these MMA fights because they're over with an under a 1 minute any way you look at it.

They land that punch or they get choked out.

As for Victor Belfort he fought one boxing match against a complete bum. That's the only known fight from his competition. Wow, what a victory!!!!!!!!

Well you list the only time a MMA fighter has actually been KO'd, but Vitor Belforts one victory is not satisfiable??

Tim Sylvia is one of the worst MMA fighters I've ever seen, he was overrated from the start.

How many credible boxers have actually fought MMA? Not a large sample number right there.

Tim Sylvia is a former champ. Vincent Belfort fought a bum off the street with 0 professional fights. I think there's a difference there.

How does it make it different just cause Tim Sylvia was an ex-champ. Its still boxing vs. MMA and MMA cross over to boxing anyway you slice it. Tim Sylvia chose to stand and he got caught, credit Mercer for that. But, that's just the way Sylvia is, he'll stand and strike with anyone. And that should answer one of the questions, that if a MMA fighter chose to stand with a boxer. But that's also one of Sylvia's weaknesses, he cannot work the inside to save his life and leaves himself open, hence the Mercer KO.

So far its still 3-1, MMA.

The point is one was credible victory, and the other wasn't. Why should I care that Vincent Belfort boxed a bum off the street and won? That's not proving anything.

What does it tell you when a old washed up boxer wants to go MMA he's main eventing, but when a MMA fighter makes the switch he starts from the bottom?

Again, your not excepting for what it is.

VITOR debuted where he was given, don't you think if he had a real money fight he would've took it?? He simply played the cards he was dealt, how do you fault him for that?? It was still boxing in the end. Ask Vitor if he would box the best, and I'm sure he wouldn't tun it down. Shoot Anderson Silva wanted/wants to box Roy Jones Jr., ask the promoters why that doesn't happen??

But in the end, what exactly is your argument. Is it that an MMA fighter got KO by a boxer in the Octagon, no doubt I won't argue that it happened. Or is that, Boxing will always beat MMA fighters, obviously, you have no argument there. For one, its still 3-1 MMA over boxing. Two, how many boxers have transitioned over to MMA, none that will give us a clear cut answer. Again, I'm getting mixed signals on your argument, or is it that you just hate to lose arguments??

I'm not faulting him for it at all, but you're the one who brought it up making it look like he had success in boxing and could make the crossover. He didn't. He fought one fight against a bum off the street and left boxing. That's not success by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm just countering your argument that a boxer can't hold up against a MMA fighter. Where did I imply that they'd win every fight? You have at it 3-1 but I'm only seeing 2 victories so far Slice over Mercer and Couture over Toney.

My point was that Vitor fought a sanctioned boxing match, how hard is that to except. An MMA fighter willing to cross over. How did I imply that it was success, other than it was just a cross over?? And example #2 is right above your post, Yeves Edwards.

Ray Mercer, James Toney and Marcus Davis (UFC #1).

He fought a sanctioned boxing match against a bum. How hard is to accept that. The same goes for Yeves Edwards. He compiled a 2-0 record against local gym rats.

You have to fill me in on Marcus Davis. Sounds like he had a good career making the transition from boxer to MMA fighter.

OK so set up a boxing match against Belfort and Mayweather then. And Yeves Edwards and Paciquao too. I mean cheesus, your not acknowleding the fact that they in fact crossed over. Again, its the cards they are dealt with, you act like you are able to set up matches. Again, if Belfort and Edwards could straight up get big money fights do you think they would turn it down....no, they boxed who they had to, to make their debut. Where did we imply that it was success??

My bad his name was Art Jimmerson, not Marcus Davis. And before that there was another boxer who fought in the UFC from the beginning.

You're the one who mentioned it like it had meaning. They crossed over and beat some guy fighting for a sandwich. Take it for what it's worth.

Art who? I thought we're talking about credible boxers making the crossover here.

I think we would all love to see Mayweather or Paciquo go up against insert great MMA fighter in both the Octagon and the ring. God would that be great. Let's see how it plays out in both worlds. You can barely get 2 great boxers to fight each other so don't hold your breath on that one.

Again, how many times must I repeat myself, I was only pointing out that a MMA fighter has crossed over. You were the one implying that I was looking at it as success.

And as for Art Jimmerson, hes a 1983 national golden glove champion. You keep bringing up the caliber of a boxer, my main point is that a boxer will be defeated more times than not in the Octagon. Isn't that the whole point to this thread??

Of course you looked at it as success, why else would you flaunt his result with a bum in that 3-1 record?

What??

That 3-1 record is about boxing vs. MMA. That's all to my knowledge I have to go by, when judging the overall situation.

WTH are you talking about.

I'm talking about how you prop up a meaningless win to somehow mean something in the context of MMA vs boxing. S**t, I mean, it's like if I decided to become an MMA fighter and took on boxers Marcos Maidana or Victor Ortiz in an MMA fight. No doubt they'd whoop my ass but I doubt you'd bother to count it in the overall picture of boxing vs MMA, yet you actually put stock in Belfort's win over some dude that never fought a professional fight in his life.

Vitor Belforts cross over has nothing to do with the 3-1 record. It was just a showing that an MMA fighter did cross over.

Ray Mercer vs. Tim Sylvia - Boxing

Ray Mercer vs. Kimbo Slice - MMA

Randy Couture vs. James Toney - MMA

Royce Gracie vs. Art Jimmerson - MMA

That's where my 3-1 is coming from. You people need to stop putting words in my mouth.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
Two words that describe MMA - Vale Tudo.

Two words that describes boxing - One-dimensional

James Toney!!!

I seem to recall Ray Mercer knocking out Tim Sylvia

I seem to recall, Couture shooting in and Toney not having a chance in hell. How about example #2, Ray Mercer getting owned by one of the lowest level MMA fighters in Kimbo Slice.

How about Vitor Belfort crossing over and making his Pro debut in Boxing.

MMA>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Boxing

Toney and Mercer only fight to collect a paycheck. You can just look at their bodies and see that they're not taking these fights too seriously anymore. If anything they're probally loving these MMA fights because they're over with an under a 1 minute any way you look at it.

They land that punch or they get choked out.

As for Victor Belfort he fought one boxing match against a complete bum. That's the only known fight from his competition. Wow, what a victory!!!!!!!!

Well you list the only time a MMA fighter has actually been KO'd, but Vitor Belforts one victory is not satisfiable??

Tim Sylvia is one of the worst MMA fighters I've ever seen, he was overrated from the start.

How many credible boxers have actually fought MMA? Not a large sample number right there.

Tim Sylvia is a former champ. Vincent Belfort fought a bum off the street with 0 professional fights. I think there's a difference there.

How does it make it different just cause Tim Sylvia was an ex-champ. Its still boxing vs. MMA and MMA cross over to boxing anyway you slice it. Tim Sylvia chose to stand and he got caught, credit Mercer for that. But, that's just the way Sylvia is, he'll stand and strike with anyone. And that should answer one of the questions, that if a MMA fighter chose to stand with a boxer. But that's also one of Sylvia's weaknesses, he cannot work the inside to save his life and leaves himself open, hence the Mercer KO.

So far its still 3-1, MMA.

The point is one was credible victory, and the other wasn't. Why should I care that Vincent Belfort boxed a bum off the street and won? That's not proving anything.

What does it tell you when a old washed up boxer wants to go MMA he's main eventing, but when a MMA fighter makes the switch he starts from the bottom?

Again, your not excepting for what it is.

VITOR debuted where he was given, don't you think if he had a real money fight he would've took it?? He simply played the cards he was dealt, how do you fault him for that?? It was still boxing in the end. Ask Vitor if he would box the best, and I'm sure he wouldn't tun it down. Shoot Anderson Silva wanted/wants to box Roy Jones Jr., ask the promoters why that doesn't happen??

But in the end, what exactly is your argument. Is it that an MMA fighter got KO by a boxer in the Octagon, no doubt I won't argue that it happened. Or is that, Boxing will always beat MMA fighters, obviously, you have no argument there. For one, its still 3-1 MMA over boxing. Two, how many boxers have transitioned over to MMA, none that will give us a clear cut answer. Again, I'm getting mixed signals on your argument, or is it that you just hate to lose arguments??

I'm not faulting him for it at all, but you're the one who brought it up making it look like he had success in boxing and could make the crossover. He didn't. He fought one fight against a bum off the street and left boxing. That's not success by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm just countering your argument that a boxer can't hold up against a MMA fighter. Where did I imply that they'd win every fight? You have at it 3-1 but I'm only seeing 2 victories so far Slice over Mercer and Couture over Toney.

My point was that Vitor fought a sanctioned boxing match, how hard is that to except. An MMA fighter willing to cross over. How did I imply that it was success, other than it was just a cross over?? And example #2 is right above your post, Yeves Edwards.

Ray Mercer, James Toney and Marcus Davis (UFC #1).

He fought a sanctioned boxing match against a bum. How hard is to accept that. The same goes for Yeves Edwards. He compiled a 2-0 record against local gym rats.

You have to fill me in on Marcus Davis. Sounds like he had a good career making the transition from boxer to MMA fighter.

OK so set up a boxing match against Belfort and Mayweather then. And Yeves Edwards and Paciquao too. I mean cheesus, your not acknowleding the fact that they in fact crossed over. Again, its the cards they are dealt with, you act like you are able to set up matches. Again, if Belfort and Edwards could straight up get big money fights do you think they would turn it down....no, they boxed who they had to, to make their debut. Where did we imply that it was success??

My bad his name was Art Jimmerson, not Marcus Davis. And before that there was another boxer who fought in the UFC from the beginning.

You're the one who mentioned it like it had meaning. They crossed over and beat some guy fighting for a sandwich. Take it for what it's worth.

Art who? I thought we're talking about credible boxers making the crossover here.

I think we would all love to see Mayweather or Paciquo go up against insert great MMA fighter in both the Octagon and the ring. God would that be great. Let's see how it plays out in both worlds. You can barely get 2 great boxers to fight each other so don't hold your breath on that one.

Again, how many times must I repeat myself, I was only pointing out that a MMA fighter has crossed over. You were the one implying that I was looking at it as success.

And as for Art Jimmerson, hes a 1983 national golden glove champion. You keep bringing up the caliber of a boxer, my main point is that a boxer will be defeated more times than not in the Octagon. Isn't that the whole point to this thread??

Plenty of average boxers have had success crossing over into MMA. You brought up Bruce Davis, Jeremy Williams went 5-0 in MMA (against scrubs), hell Butterbean had a pretty decent MMA career. I don't see the proof that boxers can't make it in MMA. Especially if they actually take the fight seriously and don't just show up to collect a paycheck like Mercer and Toney.

Who the heck is Bruce Davis?? You need to go re-read my post. And which Jeremy Williams are you talking about, its like your just throwing names out there. Butterbean, LOL, can't believe you actually called that boxing, more like brawling but OK. Like I said, if you train to sprawl and for submssions, does that make you still a boxer or an MMA fighter?? Of course your gonna say boxer, because you are pretty much biased in your opinion and judging from your recent post you have a hard time agreeing with someone, hence your the names you went and threw out there.

I used to box as an amateur and was in my fair share of street fights. Your average street fight usually starts out as a boxing match, and your average person getting in a street fight doesn't know what he is doing and would be destroyed by someone of minimal skills in seconds. On the other hand when two people of high skill one being a boxer and one an MMA guy get into it, the boxer only has one advantage, the ability to throw a powerful punch from a standing position, the MMA guy has the advantage in all of the ground fighting skills. The boxer's only chance is nailing the cage fighter before he gets a hold of him, so I would say the cage fighter wins 9 out of 10 times in a street fight.

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by silkyjohnson:


I'm talking about how you prop up a meaningless win to somehow mean something in the context of MMA vs boxing. S**t, I mean, it's like if I decided to become an MMA fighter and took on boxers Marcos Maidana or Victor Ortiz in an MMA fight. No doubt they'd whoop my ass but I doubt you'd bother to count it in the overall picture of boxing vs MMA, yet you actually put stock in Belfort's win over some dude that never fought a professional fight in his life.

Vitor Belforts cross over has nothing to do with the 3-1 record. It was just a showing that an MMA fighter did cross over.

Ray Mercer vs. Tim Sylvia - Boxing

Ray Mercer vs. Kimbo Slice - MMA

Randy Couture vs. James Toney - MMA

Royce Gracie vs. Art Jimmerson - MMA

That's where my 3-1 is coming from. You people need to stop putting words in my mouth.

Come on now, nobody's putting words in your mouth, I'm just reiterating what you already stated. So you found a substitute fight to replace the Belfort fight you highly touted. Go read post #24 and if that doesn't give off the impression that you hold the Belfort fight in some regard in this MMA vs Boxing debate then you need to work on your reading and/or writing comprehension. Before that post not once did you mention Royce Gracie.

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
Two words that describe MMA - Vale Tudo.

Two words that describes boxing - One-dimensional

James Toney!!!

I seem to recall Ray Mercer knocking out Tim Sylvia

I seem to recall, Couture shooting in and Toney not having a chance in hell. How about example #2, Ray Mercer getting owned by one of the lowest level MMA fighters in Kimbo Slice.

How about Vitor Belfort crossing over and making his Pro debut in Boxing.

MMA>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Boxing

Toney and Mercer only fight to collect a paycheck. You can just look at their bodies and see that they're not taking these fights too seriously anymore. If anything they're probally loving these MMA fights because they're over with an under a 1 minute any way you look at it.

They land that punch or they get choked out.

As for Victor Belfort he fought one boxing match against a complete bum. That's the only known fight from his competition. Wow, what a victory!!!!!!!!

Well you list the only time a MMA fighter has actually been KO'd, but Vitor Belforts one victory is not satisfiable??

Tim Sylvia is one of the worst MMA fighters I've ever seen, he was overrated from the start.

How many credible boxers have actually fought MMA? Not a large sample number right there.

Tim Sylvia is a former champ. Vincent Belfort fought a bum off the street with 0 professional fights. I think there's a difference there.

How does it make it different just cause Tim Sylvia was an ex-champ. Its still boxing vs. MMA and MMA cross over to boxing anyway you slice it. Tim Sylvia chose to stand and he got caught, credit Mercer for that. But, that's just the way Sylvia is, he'll stand and strike with anyone. And that should answer one of the questions, that if a MMA fighter chose to stand with a boxer. But that's also one of Sylvia's weaknesses, he cannot work the inside to save his life and leaves himself open, hence the Mercer KO.

So far its still 3-1, MMA.

The point is one was credible victory, and the other wasn't. Why should I care that Vincent Belfort boxed a bum off the street and won? That's not proving anything.

What does it tell you when a old washed up boxer wants to go MMA he's main eventing, but when a MMA fighter makes the switch he starts from the bottom?

Again, your not excepting for what it is.

VITOR debuted where he was given, don't you think if he had a real money fight he would've took it?? He simply played the cards he was dealt, how do you fault him for that?? It was still boxing in the end. Ask Vitor if he would box the best, and I'm sure he wouldn't tun it down. Shoot Anderson Silva wanted/wants to box Roy Jones Jr., ask the promoters why that doesn't happen??

But in the end, what exactly is your argument. Is it that an MMA fighter got KO by a boxer in the Octagon, no doubt I won't argue that it happened. Or is that, Boxing will always beat MMA fighters, obviously, you have no argument there. For one, its still 3-1 MMA over boxing. Two, how many boxers have transitioned over to MMA, none that will give us a clear cut answer. Again, I'm getting mixed signals on your argument, or is it that you just hate to lose arguments??

I'm not faulting him for it at all, but you're the one who brought it up making it look like he had success in boxing and could make the crossover. He didn't. He fought one fight against a bum off the street and left boxing. That's not success by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm just countering your argument that a boxer can't hold up against a MMA fighter. Where did I imply that they'd win every fight? You have at it 3-1 but I'm only seeing 2 victories so far Slice over Mercer and Couture over Toney.

My point was that Vitor fought a sanctioned boxing match, how hard is that to except. An MMA fighter willing to cross over. How did I imply that it was success, other than it was just a cross over?? And example #2 is right above your post, Yeves Edwards.

Ray Mercer, James Toney and Marcus Davis (UFC #1).

He fought a sanctioned boxing match against a bum. How hard is to accept that. The same goes for Yeves Edwards. He compiled a 2-0 record against local gym rats.

You have to fill me in on Marcus Davis. Sounds like he had a good career making the transition from boxer to MMA fighter.

OK so set up a boxing match against Belfort and Mayweather then. And Yeves Edwards and Paciquao too. I mean cheesus, your not acknowleding the fact that they in fact crossed over. Again, its the cards they are dealt with, you act like you are able to set up matches. Again, if Belfort and Edwards could straight up get big money fights do you think they would turn it down....no, they boxed who they had to, to make their debut. Where did we imply that it was success??

My bad his name was Art Jimmerson, not Marcus Davis. And before that there was another boxer who fought in the UFC from the beginning.

You're the one who mentioned it like it had meaning. They crossed over and beat some guy fighting for a sandwich. Take it for what it's worth.

Art who? I thought we're talking about credible boxers making the crossover here.

I think we would all love to see Mayweather or Paciquo go up against insert great MMA fighter in both the Octagon and the ring. God would that be great. Let's see how it plays out in both worlds. You can barely get 2 great boxers to fight each other so don't hold your breath on that one.

Again, how many times must I repeat myself, I was only pointing out that a MMA fighter has crossed over. You were the one implying that I was looking at it as success.

And as for Art Jimmerson, hes a 1983 national golden glove champion. You keep bringing up the caliber of a boxer, my main point is that a boxer will be defeated more times than not in the Octagon. Isn't that the whole point to this thread??

Plenty of average boxers have had success crossing over into MMA. You brought up Bruce Davis, Jeremy Williams went 5-0 in MMA (against scrubs), hell Butterbean had a pretty decent MMA career. I don't see the proof that boxers can't make it in MMA. Especially if they actually take the fight seriously and don't just show up to collect a paycheck like Mercer and Toney.

Who the heck is Bruce Davis?? You need to go re-read my post. And which Jeremy Williams are you talking about, its like your just throwing names out there. Butterbean, LOL, can't believe you actually called that boxing, more like brawling but OK. Like I said, if you train to sprawl and for submssions, does that make you still a boxer or an MMA fighter?? Of course your gonna say boxer, because you are pretty much biased in your opinion and judging from your recent post you have a hard time agreeing with someone, hence your the names you went and threw out there.

I meant Marcus Davis, and yes you did bring him up when you were scrambling to find that 3rd MMA win.

Which Jeremy Williams? It's pretty obvious I'm talking about the one with a 68-4 boxing record. We are talking boxers crossing over into MMA, right?

So what you're saying is if Mayweather trained a little in MMA added some skills outside of boxing and beat some MMA fighters it doesn't count, but if a MMA fighter beat Mayweather in the boxing ring he's not a boxer he's a MMA fighter. That's a pretty big double standard there. You really think a MMA fighter stepping into the boxing ring is going to be working on takedowns and leg kicks. I think not. He's going to be working on boxing. Adding skills he currently doesn't have with his MMA training.

Originally posted by TonyStarks:
UFC is only famous because of the reality show.

Once that sh*t dies out, so will that sport.

I'm not sure what's crazier, the idea that a good boxer would consistently beat an adequate boxer, or that MMA's going to die once a reality TV show ends.

If any sport is on life support, it's boxing. It's going the same way that baseball and horse racing in this country. Look at the ratings. Look at the demographics. MMA DESTROYS boxing in all of the demos of people under 50. It's not even close. Boxing is dying a slow death.

As for the fighting element, the 3 point shootout analogy is perfect. The only chance a boxer has is to catch the MMA guy with a knockout shot. As others have said, one's a sport of punching (and only above the waist), and the other is a sport of complete fighting. In the scenario put forth, with no rules? The boxer only has a puncher's chance. Throw fights between guys who are washed up out the window.

My dad was a boxer when he was younger and I grew up with the sport. I don't have anything against boxing, but it's a more limited sport than MMA, and it's popularity is dying.

shouldnt Tony have fought someone like Liddell who would have stood up and traded blows with him instead of fighting a wrestler in couture? would have made for a much better fight, not just a one sided "we dont wanna hear about boxing anyone" fight

Originally posted by silkyjohnson:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by silkyjohnson:


I'm talking about how you prop up a meaningless win to somehow mean something in the context of MMA vs boxing. S**t, I mean, it's like if I decided to become an MMA fighter and took on boxers Marcos Maidana or Victor Ortiz in an MMA fight. No doubt they'd whoop my ass but I doubt you'd bother to count it in the overall picture of boxing vs MMA, yet you actually put stock in Belfort's win over some dude that never fought a professional fight in his life.

Vitor Belforts cross over has nothing to do with the 3-1 record. It was just a showing that an MMA fighter did cross over.

Ray Mercer vs. Tim Sylvia - Boxing

Ray Mercer vs. Kimbo Slice - MMA

Randy Couture vs. James Toney - MMA

Royce Gracie vs. Art Jimmerson - MMA

That's where my 3-1 is coming from. You people need to stop putting words in my mouth.

Come on now, nobody's putting words in your mouth, I'm just reiterating what you already stated. So you found a substitute fight to replace the Belfort fight you highly touted. Go read post #24 and if that doesn't give off the impression that you hold the Belfort fight in some regard in this MMA vs Boxing debate then you need to work on your reading and/or writing comprehension. Before that post not once did you mention Royce Gracie.

Post #24

Quote:
How does it make it different just cause Tim Sylvia was an ex-champ. Its still boxing vs. MMA and MMA cross over to boxing anyway you slice it. Tim Sylvia chose to stand and he got caught, credit Mercer for that. But, that's just the way Sylvia is, he'll stand and strike with anyone. And that should answer one of the questions, that if a MMA fighter chose to stand with a boxer. But that's also one of Sylvia's weaknesses, he cannot work the inside to save his life and leaves himself open, hence the Mercer KO.

So far its still 3-1, MMA.

I'm confused, just what are you getting at?? Again, I mention "CROSS-OVER" where do I imply that its success???

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
Two words that describe MMA - Vale Tudo.

Two words that describes boxing - One-dimensional

James Toney!!!

I seem to recall Ray Mercer knocking out Tim Sylvia

I seem to recall, Couture shooting in and Toney not having a chance in hell. How about example #2, Ray Mercer getting owned by one of the lowest level MMA fighters in Kimbo Slice.

How about Vitor Belfort crossing over and making his Pro debut in Boxing.

MMA>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Boxing

Toney and Mercer only fight to collect a paycheck. You can just look at their bodies and see that they're not taking these fights too seriously anymore. If anything they're probally loving these MMA fights because they're over with an under a 1 minute any way you look at it.

They land that punch or they get choked out.

As for Victor Belfort he fought one boxing match against a complete bum. That's the only known fight from his competition. Wow, what a victory!!!!!!!!

Well you list the only time a MMA fighter has actually been KO'd, but Vitor Belforts one victory is not satisfiable??

Tim Sylvia is one of the worst MMA fighters I've ever seen, he was overrated from the start.

How many credible boxers have actually fought MMA? Not a large sample number right there.

Tim Sylvia is a former champ. Vincent Belfort fought a bum off the street with 0 professional fights. I think there's a difference there.

How does it make it different just cause Tim Sylvia was an ex-champ. Its still boxing vs. MMA and MMA cross over to boxing anyway you slice it. Tim Sylvia chose to stand and he got caught, credit Mercer for that. But, that's just the way Sylvia is, he'll stand and strike with anyone. And that should answer one of the questions, that if a MMA fighter chose to stand with a boxer. But that's also one of Sylvia's weaknesses, he cannot work the inside to save his life and leaves himself open, hence the Mercer KO.

So far its still 3-1, MMA.

The point is one was credible victory, and the other wasn't. Why should I care that Vincent Belfort boxed a bum off the street and won? That's not proving anything.

What does it tell you when a old washed up boxer wants to go MMA he's main eventing, but when a MMA fighter makes the switch he starts from the bottom?

Again, your not excepting for what it is.

VITOR debuted where he was given, don't you think if he had a real money fight he would've took it?? He simply played the cards he was dealt, how do you fault him for that?? It was still boxing in the end. Ask Vitor if he would box the best, and I'm sure he wouldn't tun it down. Shoot Anderson Silva wanted/wants to box Roy Jones Jr., ask the promoters why that doesn't happen??

But in the end, what exactly is your argument. Is it that an MMA fighter got KO by a boxer in the Octagon, no doubt I won't argue that it happened. Or is that, Boxing will always beat MMA fighters, obviously, you have no argument there. For one, its still 3-1 MMA over boxing. Two, how many boxers have transitioned over to MMA, none that will give us a clear cut answer. Again, I'm getting mixed signals on your argument, or is it that you just hate to lose arguments??

I'm not faulting him for it at all, but you're the one who brought it up making it look like he had success in boxing and could make the crossover. He didn't. He fought one fight against a bum off the street and left boxing. That's not success by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm just countering your argument that a boxer can't hold up against a MMA fighter. Where did I imply that they'd win every fight? You have at it 3-1 but I'm only seeing 2 victories so far Slice over Mercer and Couture over Toney.

My point was that Vitor fought a sanctioned boxing match, how hard is that to except. An MMA fighter willing to cross over. How did I imply that it was success, other than it was just a cross over?? And example #2 is right above your post, Yeves Edwards.

Ray Mercer, James Toney and Marcus Davis (UFC #1).

He fought a sanctioned boxing match against a bum. How hard is to accept that. The same goes for Yeves Edwards. He compiled a 2-0 record against local gym rats.

You have to fill me in on Marcus Davis. Sounds like he had a good career making the transition from boxer to MMA fighter.

OK so set up a boxing match against Belfort and Mayweather then. And Yeves Edwards and Paciquao too. I mean cheesus, your not acknowleding the fact that they in fact crossed over. Again, its the cards they are dealt with, you act like you are able to set up matches. Again, if Belfort and Edwards could straight up get big money fights do you think they would turn it down....no, they boxed who they had to, to make their debut. Where did we imply that it was success??

My bad his name was Art Jimmerson, not Marcus Davis. And before that there was another boxer who fought in the UFC from the beginning.

You're the one who mentioned it like it had meaning. They crossed over and beat some guy fighting for a sandwich. Take it for what it's worth.

Art who? I thought we're talking about credible boxers making the crossover here.

I think we would all love to see Mayweather or Paciquo go up against insert great MMA fighter in both the Octagon and the ring. God would that be great. Let's see how it plays out in both worlds. You can barely get 2 great boxers to fight each other so don't hold your breath on that one.

Again, how many times must I repeat myself, I was only pointing out that a MMA fighter has crossed over. You were the one implying that I was looking at it as success.

And as for Art Jimmerson, hes a 1983 national golden glove champion. You keep bringing up the caliber of a boxer, my main point is that a boxer will be defeated more times than not in the Octagon. Isn't that the whole point to this thread??

Plenty of average boxers have had success crossing over into MMA. You brought up Bruce Davis, Jeremy Williams went 5-0 in MMA (against scrubs), hell Butterbean had a pretty decent MMA career. I don't see the proof that boxers can't make it in MMA. Especially if they actually take the fight seriously and don't just show up to collect a paycheck like Mercer and Toney.

Who the heck is Bruce Davis?? You need to go re-read my post. And which Jeremy Williams are you talking about, its like your just throwing names out there. Butterbean, LOL, can't believe you actually called that boxing, more like brawling but OK. Like I said, if you train to sprawl and for submssions, does that make you still a boxer or an MMA fighter?? Of course your gonna say boxer, because you are pretty much biased in your opinion and judging from your recent post you have a hard time agreeing with someone, hence your the names you went and threw out there.

I meant Marcus Davis, and yes you did bring him up when you were scrambling to find that 3rd MMA win.

Which Jeremy Williams? It's pretty obvious I'm talking about the one with a 68-4 boxing record. We are talking boxers crossing over into MMA, right?

So what you're saying is if Mayweather trained a little in MMA added some skills outside of boxing and beat some MMA fighters it doesn't count, but if a MMA fighter beat Mayweather in the boxing ring he's not a boxer he's a MMA fighter. That's a pretty big double standard there. You really think a MMA fighter stepping into the boxing ring is going to be working on takedowns and leg kicks. I think not. He's going to be working on boxing. Adding skills he currently doesn't have with his MMA training.

Seriously, go back and read my post, I apologized for getting his name wrong, his name was Art Jimmerson, NOT Marcus Davis. As I put it, it was in UFC 1.

And who said, it doesn't count, all I said, was, would it still make that fighter a boxer??

What do you two (silkyjohnson) want, to say oh snap you guys are right, you win. Well you guys win if it makes you happy, I got other things to do, gotta head out to the beach instead of arguing nonsense.....later.

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by TonyStarks:
UFC is only famous because of the reality show.

Once that sh*t dies out, so will that sport.

I'm not sure what's crazier, the idea that a good boxer would consistently beat an adequate boxer, or that MMA's going to die once a reality TV show ends.

If any sport is on life support, it's boxing. It's going the same way that baseball and horse racing in this country. Look at the ratings. Look at the demographics. MMA DESTROYS boxing in all of the demos of people under 50. It's not even close. Boxing is dying a slow death.

As for the fighting element, the 3 point shootout analogy is perfect. The only chance a boxer has is to catch the MMA guy with a knockout shot. As others have said, one's a sport of punching (and only above the waist), and the other is a sport of complete fighting. In the scenario put forth, with no rules? The boxer only has a puncher's chance. Throw fights between guys who are washed up out the window.

My dad was a boxer when he was younger and I grew up with the sport. I don't have anything against boxing, but it's a more limited sport than MMA, and it's popularity is dying.

Boxing is doing just fine, sure it's missing that American heavyweight crossover star, or American heavyweights in general, but aside from that, it's doing as well as it ever has, especially outside of this country. It's got a lot of upcoming youngsters who, barring terrible mismanagement, will be making a name for themselves.

And sure the UFC's got a much better structure to succeed there's no denying that and it may continue to grow bigger than boxing, but those ratings ain't exactly blowing boxing's ratings out of the water, boxing's put up some numbers that the UFC hasn't been able to touch.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pay-per-view#HBO_PPV

Sorry to say this, but that slow painful death is nowhere in sight.

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by silkyjohnson:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by silkyjohnson:


I'm talking about how you prop up a meaningless win to somehow mean something in the context of MMA vs boxing. S**t, I mean, it's like if I decided to become an MMA fighter and took on boxers Marcos Maidana or Victor Ortiz in an MMA fight. No doubt they'd whoop my ass but I doubt you'd bother to count it in the overall picture of boxing vs MMA, yet you actually put stock in Belfort's win over some dude that never fought a professional fight in his life.

Vitor Belforts cross over has nothing to do with the 3-1 record. It was just a showing that an MMA fighter did cross over.

Ray Mercer vs. Tim Sylvia - Boxing

Ray Mercer vs. Kimbo Slice - MMA

Randy Couture vs. James Toney - MMA

Royce Gracie vs. Art Jimmerson - MMA

That's where my 3-1 is coming from. You people need to stop putting words in my mouth.

Come on now, nobody's putting words in your mouth, I'm just reiterating what you already stated. So you found a substitute fight to replace the Belfort fight you highly touted. Go read post #24 and if that doesn't give off the impression that you hold the Belfort fight in some regard in this MMA vs Boxing debate then you need to work on your reading and/or writing comprehension. Before that post not once did you mention Royce Gracie.

Post #24

Quote:
How does it make it different just cause Tim Sylvia was an ex-champ. Its still boxing vs. MMA and MMA cross over to boxing anyway you slice it. Tim Sylvia chose to stand and he got caught, credit Mercer for that. But, that's just the way Sylvia is, he'll stand and strike with anyone. And that should answer one of the questions, that if a MMA fighter chose to stand with a boxer. But that's also one of Sylvia's weaknesses, he cannot work the inside to save his life and leaves himself open, hence the Mercer KO.

So far its still 3-1, MMA.

I'm confused, just what are you getting at?? Again, I mention "CROSS-OVER" where do I imply that its success???

Cutting off the chain of quotes that proves my point... niiiiice!

and

Originally posted by silkyjohnson:

I'm talking about how you prop up a meaningless win to somehow mean something in the context of MMA vs boxing.

^ although it seems that you've changed your mind about this one and are trying to deny, deny, deny now

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
Two words that describe MMA - Vale Tudo.

Two words that describes boxing - One-dimensional

James Toney!!!

I seem to recall Ray Mercer knocking out Tim Sylvia

I seem to recall, Couture shooting in and Toney not having a chance in hell. How about example #2, Ray Mercer getting owned by one of the lowest level MMA fighters in Kimbo Slice.

How about Vitor Belfort crossing over and making his Pro debut in Boxing.

MMA>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Boxing

Toney and Mercer only fight to collect a paycheck. You can just look at their bodies and see that they're not taking these fights too seriously anymore. If anything they're probally loving these MMA fights because they're over with an under a 1 minute any way you look at it.

They land that punch or they get choked out.

As for Victor Belfort he fought one boxing match against a complete bum. That's the only known fight from his competition. Wow, what a victory!!!!!!!!

Well you list the only time a MMA fighter has actually been KO'd, but Vitor Belforts one victory is not satisfiable??

Tim Sylvia is one of the worst MMA fighters I've ever seen, he was overrated from the start.

How many credible boxers have actually fought MMA? Not a large sample number right there.

Tim Sylvia is a former champ. Vincent Belfort fought a bum off the street with 0 professional fights. I think there's a difference there.

How does it make it different just cause Tim Sylvia was an ex-champ. Its still boxing vs. MMA and MMA cross over to boxing anyway you slice it. Tim Sylvia chose to stand and he got caught, credit Mercer for that. But, that's just the way Sylvia is, he'll stand and strike with anyone. And that should answer one of the questions, that if a MMA fighter chose to stand with a boxer. But that's also one of Sylvia's weaknesses, he cannot work the inside to save his life and leaves himself open, hence the Mercer KO.

So far its still 3-1, MMA.

The point is one was credible victory, and the other wasn't. Why should I care that Vincent Belfort boxed a bum off the street and won? That's not proving anything.

What does it tell you when a old washed up boxer wants to go MMA he's main eventing, but when a MMA fighter makes the switch he starts from the bottom?

Again, your not excepting for what it is.

VITOR debuted where he was given, don't you think if he had a real money fight he would've took it?? He simply played the cards he was dealt, how do you fault him for that?? It was still boxing in the end. Ask Vitor if he would box the best, and I'm sure he wouldn't tun it down. Shoot Anderson Silva wanted/wants to box Roy Jones Jr., ask the promoters why that doesn't happen??

But in the end, what exactly is your argument. Is it that an MMA fighter got KO by a boxer in the Octagon, no doubt I won't argue that it happened. Or is that, Boxing will always beat MMA fighters, obviously, you have no argument there. For one, its still 3-1 MMA over boxing. Two, how many boxers have transitioned over to MMA, none that will give us a clear cut answer. Again, I'm getting mixed signals on your argument, or is it that you just hate to lose arguments??

I'm not faulting him for it at all, but you're the one who brought it up making it look like he had success in boxing and could make the crossover. He didn't. He fought one fight against a bum off the street and left boxing. That's not success by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm just countering your argument that a boxer can't hold up against a MMA fighter. Where did I imply that they'd win every fight? You have at it 3-1 but I'm only seeing 2 victories so far Slice over Mercer and Couture over Toney.

My point was that Vitor fought a sanctioned boxing match, how hard is that to except. An MMA fighter willing to cross over. How did I imply that it was success, other than it was just a cross over?? And example #2 is right above your post, Yeves Edwards.

Ray Mercer, James Toney and Marcus Davis (UFC #1).

He fought a sanctioned boxing match against a bum. How hard is to accept that. The same goes for Yeves Edwards. He compiled a 2-0 record against local gym rats.

You have to fill me in on Marcus Davis. Sounds like he had a good career making the transition from boxer to MMA fighter.

OK so set up a boxing match against Belfort and Mayweather then. And Yeves Edwards and Paciquao too. I mean cheesus, your not acknowleding the fact that they in fact crossed over. Again, its the cards they are dealt with, you act like you are able to set up matches. Again, if Belfort and Edwards could straight up get big money fights do you think they would turn it down....no, they boxed who they had to, to make their debut. Where did we imply that it was success??

My bad his name was Art Jimmerson, not Marcus Davis. And before that there was another boxer who fought in the UFC from the beginning.

You're the one who mentioned it like it had meaning. They crossed over and beat some guy fighting for a sandwich. Take it for what it's worth.

Art who? I thought we're talking about credible boxers making the crossover here.

I think we would all love to see Mayweather or Paciquo go up against insert great MMA fighter in both the Octagon and the ring. God would that be great. Let's see how it plays out in both worlds. You can barely get 2 great boxers to fight each other so don't hold your breath on that one.

Again, how many times must I repeat myself, I was only pointing out that a MMA fighter has crossed over. You were the one implying that I was looking at it as success.

And as for Art Jimmerson, hes a 1983 national golden glove champion. You keep bringing up the caliber of a boxer, my main point is that a boxer will be defeated more times than not in the Octagon. Isn't that the whole point to this thread??

Plenty of average boxers have had success crossing over into MMA. You brought up Bruce Davis, Jeremy Williams went 5-0 in MMA (against scrubs), hell Butterbean had a pretty decent MMA career. I don't see the proof that boxers can't make it in MMA. Especially if they actually take the fight seriously and don't just show up to collect a paycheck like Mercer and Toney.

Who the heck is Bruce Davis?? You need to go re-read my post. And which Jeremy Williams are you talking about, its like your just throwing names out there. Butterbean, LOL, can't believe you actually called that boxing, more like brawling but OK. Like I said, if you train to sprawl and for submssions, does that make you still a boxer or an MMA fighter?? Of course your gonna say boxer, because you are pretty much biased in your opinion and judging from your recent post you have a hard time agreeing with someone, hence your the names you went and threw out there.

I meant Marcus Davis, and yes you did bring him up when you were scrambling to find that 3rd MMA win.

Which Jeremy Williams? It's pretty obvious I'm talking about the one with a 68-4 boxing record. We are talking boxers crossing over into MMA, right?

So what you're saying is if Mayweather trained a little in MMA added some skills outside of boxing and beat some MMA fighters it doesn't count, but if a MMA fighter beat Mayweather in the boxing ring he's not a boxer he's a MMA fighter. That's a pretty big double standard there. You really think a MMA fighter stepping into the boxing ring is going to be working on takedowns and leg kicks. I think not. He's going to be working on boxing. Adding skills he currently doesn't have with his MMA training.

Seriously, go back and read my post, I apologized for getting his name wrong, his name was Art Jimmerson, NOT Marcus Davis. As I put it, it was in UFC 1.

And who said, it doesn't count, all I said, was, would it still make that fighter a boxer??
What do you two (silkyjohnson) want, to say oh snap you guys are right, you win. Well you guys win if it makes you happy, I got other things to do, gotta head out to the beach instead of arguing nonsense.....later.

Yes he's still a boxer. Just because Shannon Briggs thru some kicks when he was in K-1 doesn't mean he's now a kick boxer in place of a boxer. I don't get what you're saying here. If he actually trains for a MMA fight he's no longer a boxer but a MMA fighter. Why? If Belfort is fighting a boxing match against Mayweather he's training for a boxing match. Is he no longer an MMA fighter?

I need to chime in on this.

MMA is Gay

That is all

Originally posted by valrod33:
I need to chime in on this.

MMA is Gay

That is all

OTB but it's only gay if you make eye contact.

Originally posted by HaiGuise:

Originally posted by valrod33:
I need to chime in on this.

MMA is Gay

That is all

OTB but it's only gay if you make eye contact.