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Is Stephen Strasburg really the next Nolan Ryan?

Is Stephen Strasburg really the next Nolan Ryan?

Originally posted by DynastyChile:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by DynastyChile:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by DynastyChile:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by TheChozen:
I'll give Strasburg some credit. He's gonna be a stud but don't take anything away from other MLB teams and players. Right now, he's just a small fish in a big pond. He's faced one team with a winning record and got beat. Say what you will about the Nats offense but Tim Hudson pitched awesome too(yeah, he was in the game too.) I just think its too early to carve his bust in Cooperstown yet.

Of course its too early to put him in Cooperstown but there is no doubt in my mind that he is a top 10 pitcher already in the majors. He is going to get beat like every pitcher in history has especially playing with the Nats. The guy he is compared to in this thread barely won more games that he lost.

Here is a good question. How many teams in all of baseball wouldnt trade their #1 Sp for Strasburg? Can you name 3? I cant. 2? I still cant.


That is just simply not true. There are 30 teams in the MLB, the majority has an ace, and the majority of them at this point are better. When he started out this season cracking top 25 pitchers was where he was projected to be, and it looks about right to me once its all said and done.

ESPN just jizzed all over him right when he came out so they could make money and put him on sunday night games ETC, and it worked for a while, but he is gonna have struggles. He is gonna be filthy, but its gonna take some time.

After 5 decisions a 2-2 record w a 2.27 ERA and almost 50K is about right, he probably wont end up that much over .500 because A. he wont have the same control every game B. Big leaguers will start to figure him out a little more and C. he wont get much run support.

You are completley wrong in my opinion if you think that the majority of teams have ace pitchers that are better than Strasburg.

OK.. lets go team for team then:
Giants - Lincecum MAYBE but he sure isnt showing it
Rockies -Ubaldo - ok yes
Dodgers -Kershaw -no although i do like kershaw
Arizona Haren - um.. NO
Padres Latos - no

Brewers - Gallardo -yes by a bit
Cards - Wainwright - yes
Cubs - no one
Astros - no one
Pirates - no one
Reds - no one

Mets Pelfrey .. no and no way for Santana either
Phillies Halliday yes
Marlins Johnson yes
Braves Hansen no

A's no one
Texas no one
Seattle Felix maybe although he hasnt shown it
Angels Weaver - maybe but doubtful

Tigers Verlander - maybe
KC Greinke no
Minn Lirinao no
Cleve no one
Chicago no

NY Sabathia yes
Boston Beckett? no Lester? maybe
TB Price Yes
Balti no one
Toron no one

OK - i may give you 9-10 teams that would think their ace is better right now. MAYBE. However, that wasnt the question. It certainly isnt the majority of the teams.

The question was how many teams wouldnt deal there #1 straight up for Strasburg and I believe it would be 1 or 2 at most.

I think there are only 4 pitchers in baseball that teams might not deal for him:
David Price
Josh Johnson
Ubaldo Jiminez
Felix Hernandez

Listen, I know that I am in the minority on this persepective. I did provide two names, Jim Callis from Baseball America and Keith Law from ESPN that share my beliefs but everyone is entitled to whatever they think. I choose to look at how great this kid will be and how good he already is.

It is kind of like the NBA. John Wall hasnt played a game yet but the vast majority of teams would deal their point guards for him. Why? Because of the potential greatness of the kid.


First of all the basketball analogy is completely irrelevant to the discussion. John Wall is not one of the better prospects to come out in a long time to alot of scouts, the comparison of Wall coming out and Strasburg coming out isn't even close. And I don't want to argue with you over your point, which i clearly mis read from the beginning, because thats not what I'm trying to dispute. Clearly based off potential many managers would trade their ace except for 5-7, but as for this year, he wont be a top 10 pitcher, mark it. Like i said, top 20-25 is not anything to sneeze at and he'd be well on his way to being a top ace for a long time.

He wont be a top 10 pitcher if you simply look at total wins and other categories where the other top pitchers didnt miss 2 months of the season. That is pretty obvious.
Yes you misunderstood my point. My point was that there would be very few teams that wouldnt deal their top pitcher for Strasburg and I really believe that. I also think that right now there would be less than 10 pitchers in all of baseball that I would want on the mound for me. I do believe he is a top 10 pitcher right now although the stats and wins for 2010 certainly will not show that.

As to the John Wall.. it was to make a point. Yes, he isnt the incredible prospect that Strasburg is but the vast majority of NBA teams would still trade almost any player on their roster for a chance to have him on their team for many years. Just like Strasburg.

LOL what? You're putting him on Lebron status right now, he wasn't even the clear cut #1 prospect coming out, a lot of teams would have wanted Turner..

He might not even be the most successful NBA player from his Kentucky team

So you dont think teams would trade almost ( and notice i said ALMOST) anyone from their roster for Wall? Of course most teams would. The Warriors would deal anyone other than Curry for Wall in a heartbeat. Cleveland.. anyone other than LeBron. The Lakers.. anyone other than Kobe and Gasol. Celtics? Anyone other than Rondo. Most teams.. anyone at all. This isnt a hard concept and how is this putting him on the same level as LeBron?

As far as a lot of teams prefering Turner.. well I didnt know you had the ear of all the GMS in the league. That is really interesting. I dont buy it however. But, thats besides the point.

The point is again.... teams do see star players (whether they are Evan Turner or John Wall or any fricking kid from college) and project how great they will be. If they think they are THAT good they will trade current stars for them. If there is potential greatness and the kind of player that can take them to the promised land teams will do some crazy things to get them. Maybe you dont remember trading an entire draft to get Ricky Williams. Maybe you dont remember the Warriors trading Penny Hardaway AND 3 FIRST RD PICKS to get Chris Webber.
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by DynastyChile:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by DynastyChile:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by DynastyChile:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by TheChozen:
I'll give Strasburg some credit. He's gonna be a stud but don't take anything away from other MLB teams and players. Right now, he's just a small fish in a big pond. He's faced one team with a winning record and got beat. Say what you will about the Nats offense but Tim Hudson pitched awesome too(yeah, he was in the game too.) I just think its too early to carve his bust in Cooperstown yet.

Of course its too early to put him in Cooperstown but there is no doubt in my mind that he is a top 10 pitcher already in the majors. He is going to get beat like every pitcher in history has especially playing with the Nats. The guy he is compared to in this thread barely won more games that he lost.

Here is a good question. How many teams in all of baseball wouldnt trade their #1 Sp for Strasburg? Can you name 3? I cant. 2? I still cant.


That is just simply not true. There are 30 teams in the MLB, the majority has an ace, and the majority of them at this point are better. When he started out this season cracking top 25 pitchers was where he was projected to be, and it looks about right to me once its all said and done.

ESPN just jizzed all over him right when he came out so they could make money and put him on sunday night games ETC, and it worked for a while, but he is gonna have struggles. He is gonna be filthy, but its gonna take some time.

After 5 decisions a 2-2 record w a 2.27 ERA and almost 50K is about right, he probably wont end up that much over .500 because A. he wont have the same control every game B. Big leaguers will start to figure him out a little more and C. he wont get much run support.

You are completley wrong in my opinion if you think that the majority of teams have ace pitchers that are better than Strasburg.

OK.. lets go team for team then:
Giants - Lincecum MAYBE but he sure isnt showing it
Rockies -Ubaldo - ok yes
Dodgers -Kershaw -no although i do like kershaw
Arizona Haren - um.. NO
Padres Latos - no

Brewers - Gallardo -yes by a bit
Cards - Wainwright - yes
Cubs - no one
Astros - no one
Pirates - no one
Reds - no one

Mets Pelfrey .. no and no way for Santana either
Phillies Halliday yes
Marlins Johnson yes
Braves Hansen no

A's no one
Texas no one
Seattle Felix maybe although he hasnt shown it
Angels Weaver - maybe but doubtful

Tigers Verlander - maybe
KC Greinke no
Minn Lirinao no
Cleve no one
Chicago no

NY Sabathia yes
Boston Beckett? no Lester? maybe
TB Price Yes
Balti no one
Toron no one

OK - i may give you 9-10 teams that would think their ace is better right now. MAYBE. However, that wasnt the question. It certainly isnt the majority of the teams.

The question was how many teams wouldnt deal there #1 straight up for Strasburg and I believe it would be 1 or 2 at most.

I think there are only 4 pitchers in baseball that teams might not deal for him:
David Price
Josh Johnson
Ubaldo Jiminez
Felix Hernandez

Listen, I know that I am in the minority on this persepective. I did provide two names, Jim Callis from Baseball America and Keith Law from ESPN that share my beliefs but everyone is entitled to whatever they think. I choose to look at how great this kid will be and how good he already is.

It is kind of like the NBA. John Wall hasnt played a game yet but the vast majority of teams would deal their point guards for him. Why? Because of the potential greatness of the kid.


First of all the basketball analogy is completely irrelevant to the discussion. John Wall is not one of the better prospects to come out in a long time to alot of scouts, the comparison of Wall coming out and Strasburg coming out isn't even close. And I don't want to argue with you over your point, which i clearly mis read from the beginning, because thats not what I'm trying to dispute. Clearly based off potential many managers would trade their ace except for 5-7, but as for this year, he wont be a top 10 pitcher, mark it. Like i said, top 20-25 is not anything to sneeze at and he'd be well on his way to being a top ace for a long time.

He wont be a top 10 pitcher if you simply look at total wins and other categories where the other top pitchers didnt miss 2 months of the season. That is pretty obvious.
Yes you misunderstood my point. My point was that there would be very few teams that wouldnt deal their top pitcher for Strasburg and I really believe that. I also think that right now there would be less than 10 pitchers in all of baseball that I would want on the mound for me. I do believe he is a top 10 pitcher right now although the stats and wins for 2010 certainly will not show that.

As to the John Wall.. it was to make a point. Yes, he isnt the incredible prospect that Strasburg is but the vast majority of NBA teams would still trade almost any player on their roster for a chance to have him on their team for many years. Just like Strasburg.

LOL what? You're putting him on Lebron status right now, he wasn't even the clear cut #1 prospect coming out, a lot of teams would have wanted Turner..

He might not even be the most successful NBA player from his Kentucky team

So you dont think teams would trade almost ( and notice i said ALMOST) anyone from their roster for Wall? Of course most teams would. The Warriors would deal anyone other than Curry for Wall in a heartbeat. Cleveland.. anyone other than LeBron. The Lakers.. anyone other than Kobe and Gasol. Celtics? Anyone other than Rondo. Most teams.. anyone at all. This isnt a hard concept and how is this putting him on the same level as LeBron?

As far as a lot of teams prefering Turner.. well I didnt know you had the ear of all the GMS in the league. That is really interesting. I dont buy it however. But, thats besides the point.

The point is again.... teams do see star players (whether they are Evan Turner or John Wall or any fricking kid from college) and project how great they will be. If they think they are THAT good they will trade current stars for them. If there is potential greatness and the kind of player that can take them to the promised land teams will do some crazy things to get them. Maybe you dont remember trading an entire draft to get Ricky Williams. Maybe you dont remember the Warriors trading Penny Hardaway AND 3 FIRST RD PICKS to get Chris Webber.

Alright, agree to disagree man. You put so much stock into talent that hasn't even touched a professional court its pointless to argue.

There's a really dope high school kid that just committed to Kansas that lives up the street, I'll go knock on his door and tell him the Celtics are trading Kendrick Perkins to the Jayhawks for him cuz he has that much talent and potential!
Originally posted by DynastyChile:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by DynastyChile:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by DynastyChile:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by DynastyChile:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by TheChozen:
I'll give Strasburg some credit. He's gonna be a stud but don't take anything away from other MLB teams and players. Right now, he's just a small fish in a big pond. He's faced one team with a winning record and got beat. Say what you will about the Nats offense but Tim Hudson pitched awesome too(yeah, he was in the game too.) I just think its too early to carve his bust in Cooperstown yet.

Of course its too early to put him in Cooperstown but there is no doubt in my mind that he is a top 10 pitcher already in the majors. He is going to get beat like every pitcher in history has especially playing with the Nats. The guy he is compared to in this thread barely won more games that he lost.

Here is a good question. How many teams in all of baseball wouldnt trade their #1 Sp for Strasburg? Can you name 3? I cant. 2? I still cant.


That is just simply not true. There are 30 teams in the MLB, the majority has an ace, and the majority of them at this point are better. When he started out this season cracking top 25 pitchers was where he was projected to be, and it looks about right to me once its all said and done.

ESPN just jizzed all over him right when he came out so they could make money and put him on sunday night games ETC, and it worked for a while, but he is gonna have struggles. He is gonna be filthy, but its gonna take some time.

After 5 decisions a 2-2 record w a 2.27 ERA and almost 50K is about right, he probably wont end up that much over .500 because A. he wont have the same control every game B. Big leaguers will start to figure him out a little more and C. he wont get much run support.

You are completley wrong in my opinion if you think that the majority of teams have ace pitchers that are better than Strasburg.

OK.. lets go team for team then:
Giants - Lincecum MAYBE but he sure isnt showing it
Rockies -Ubaldo - ok yes
Dodgers -Kershaw -no although i do like kershaw
Arizona Haren - um.. NO
Padres Latos - no

Brewers - Gallardo -yes by a bit
Cards - Wainwright - yes
Cubs - no one
Astros - no one
Pirates - no one
Reds - no one

Mets Pelfrey .. no and no way for Santana either
Phillies Halliday yes
Marlins Johnson yes
Braves Hansen no

A's no one
Texas no one
Seattle Felix maybe although he hasnt shown it
Angels Weaver - maybe but doubtful

Tigers Verlander - maybe
KC Greinke no
Minn Lirinao no
Cleve no one
Chicago no

NY Sabathia yes
Boston Beckett? no Lester? maybe
TB Price Yes
Balti no one
Toron no one

OK - i may give you 9-10 teams that would think their ace is better right now. MAYBE. However, that wasnt the question. It certainly isnt the majority of the teams.

The question was how many teams wouldnt deal there #1 straight up for Strasburg and I believe it would be 1 or 2 at most.

I think there are only 4 pitchers in baseball that teams might not deal for him:
David Price
Josh Johnson
Ubaldo Jiminez
Felix Hernandez

Listen, I know that I am in the minority on this persepective. I did provide two names, Jim Callis from Baseball America and Keith Law from ESPN that share my beliefs but everyone is entitled to whatever they think. I choose to look at how great this kid will be and how good he already is.

It is kind of like the NBA. John Wall hasnt played a game yet but the vast majority of teams would deal their point guards for him. Why? Because of the potential greatness of the kid.


First of all the basketball analogy is completely irrelevant to the discussion. John Wall is not one of the better prospects to come out in a long time to alot of scouts, the comparison of Wall coming out and Strasburg coming out isn't even close. And I don't want to argue with you over your point, which i clearly mis read from the beginning, because thats not what I'm trying to dispute. Clearly based off potential many managers would trade their ace except for 5-7, but as for this year, he wont be a top 10 pitcher, mark it. Like i said, top 20-25 is not anything to sneeze at and he'd be well on his way to being a top ace for a long time.

He wont be a top 10 pitcher if you simply look at total wins and other categories where the other top pitchers didnt miss 2 months of the season. That is pretty obvious.
Yes you misunderstood my point. My point was that there would be very few teams that wouldnt deal their top pitcher for Strasburg and I really believe that. I also think that right now there would be less than 10 pitchers in all of baseball that I would want on the mound for me. I do believe he is a top 10 pitcher right now although the stats and wins for 2010 certainly will not show that.

As to the John Wall.. it was to make a point. Yes, he isnt the incredible prospect that Strasburg is but the vast majority of NBA teams would still trade almost any player on their roster for a chance to have him on their team for many years. Just like Strasburg.

LOL what? You're putting him on Lebron status right now, he wasn't even the clear cut #1 prospect coming out, a lot of teams would have wanted Turner..

He might not even be the most successful NBA player from his Kentucky team

So you dont think teams would trade almost ( and notice i said ALMOST) anyone from their roster for Wall? Of course most teams would. The Warriors would deal anyone other than Curry for Wall in a heartbeat. Cleveland.. anyone other than LeBron. The Lakers.. anyone other than Kobe and Gasol. Celtics? Anyone other than Rondo. Most teams.. anyone at all. This isnt a hard concept and how is this putting him on the same level as LeBron?

As far as a lot of teams prefering Turner.. well I didnt know you had the ear of all the GMS in the league. That is really interesting. I dont buy it however. But, thats besides the point.

The point is again.... teams do see star players (whether they are Evan Turner or John Wall or any fricking kid from college) and project how great they will be. If they think they are THAT good they will trade current stars for them. If there is potential greatness and the kind of player that can take them to the promised land teams will do some crazy things to get them. Maybe you dont remember trading an entire draft to get Ricky Williams. Maybe you dont remember the Warriors trading Penny Hardaway AND 3 FIRST RD PICKS to get Chris Webber.

Alright, agree to disagree man. You put so much stock into talent that hasn't even touched a professional court its pointless to argue.

There's a really dope high school kid that just committed to Kansas that lives up the street, I'll go knock on his door and tell him the Celtics are trading Kendrick Perkins to the Jayhawks for him cuz he has that much talent and potential!

Nice attempt at humor but it didnt work. I guess teams were pretty happy that they took high school players like Kevin Garnett, Kobe Bryant, Lebron James, etc, etc right out of HS without even seeing them play in college. Why did they take them early in the draft without even seeing them play in college? TALENT AND POTENTIAL. I can add baseball players to that as well. I guess AROD and Griffey JR werent too bad even though they came right out of HS.


Oh your HS kid.. maybe you can tell him about this HS kid that the Lakers traded a big man much better than Perkins for. He was unproven at the time. Ya.. I guess Kobe was worth it.

I dont even know what you can disagree with but sure we can agree to disagree if that makes you happy.
Soooo the 12 people, including the one that drafted kobe at 13 and traded him away for vlade divac all would have traded their star players for the POTENTIAL and TALENT that they saw? No one knows how ANY of these players will turn out, hence the reason why they dont trade away their own proven players for them...They just hope to get in the lottery and have a chance.

Look at where that beautiful chris webber trade got the warriors. How many other times do teams trade the boat to get up into the top 3 lottery picks?
Originally posted by DynastyChile:
Soooo the 12 people, including the one that drafted kobe at 13 and traded him away for vlade divac all would have traded their star players for the POTENTIAL and TALENT that they saw? No one knows how ANY of these players will turn out, hence the reason why they dont trade away their own proven players for them...They just hope to get in the lottery and have a chance.

Look at where that beautiful chris webber trade got the warriors. How many other times do teams trade the boat to get up into the top 3 lottery picks?

Forget it. You dont get it so time to move on. Just be thankful as a Laker fan that Jerry West DID understand the value of trading a proven player for an unproven high school player. He could see greatness and traded for Kobe. He had vision.
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by DynastyChile:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by DynastyChile:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by DynastyChile:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by DynastyChile:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by TheChozen:
I'll give Strasburg some credit. He's gonna be a stud but don't take anything away from other MLB teams and players. Right now, he's just a small fish in a big pond. He's faced one team with a winning record and got beat. Say what you will about the Nats offense but Tim Hudson pitched awesome too(yeah, he was in the game too.) I just think its too early to carve his bust in Cooperstown yet.

Of course its too early to put him in Cooperstown but there is no doubt in my mind that he is a top 10 pitcher already in the majors. He is going to get beat like every pitcher in history has especially playing with the Nats. The guy he is compared to in this thread barely won more games that he lost.

Here is a good question. How many teams in all of baseball wouldnt trade their #1 Sp for Strasburg? Can you name 3? I cant. 2? I still cant.


That is just simply not true. There are 30 teams in the MLB, the majority has an ace, and the majority of them at this point are better. When he started out this season cracking top 25 pitchers was where he was projected to be, and it looks about right to me once its all said and done.

ESPN just jizzed all over him right when he came out so they could make money and put him on sunday night games ETC, and it worked for a while, but he is gonna have struggles. He is gonna be filthy, but its gonna take some time.

After 5 decisions a 2-2 record w a 2.27 ERA and almost 50K is about right, he probably wont end up that much over .500 because A. he wont have the same control every game B. Big leaguers will start to figure him out a little more and C. he wont get much run support.

You are completley wrong in my opinion if you think that the majority of teams have ace pitchers that are better than Strasburg.

OK.. lets go team for team then:
Giants - Lincecum MAYBE but he sure isnt showing it
Rockies -Ubaldo - ok yes
Dodgers -Kershaw -no although i do like kershaw
Arizona Haren - um.. NO
Padres Latos - no

Brewers - Gallardo -yes by a bit
Cards - Wainwright - yes
Cubs - no one
Astros - no one
Pirates - no one
Reds - no one

Mets Pelfrey .. no and no way for Santana either
Phillies Halliday yes
Marlins Johnson yes
Braves Hansen no

A's no one
Texas no one
Seattle Felix maybe although he hasnt shown it
Angels Weaver - maybe but doubtful

Tigers Verlander - maybe
KC Greinke no
Minn Lirinao no
Cleve no one
Chicago no

NY Sabathia yes
Boston Beckett? no Lester? maybe
TB Price Yes
Balti no one
Toron no one

OK - i may give you 9-10 teams that would think their ace is better right now. MAYBE. However, that wasnt the question. It certainly isnt the majority of the teams.

The question was how many teams wouldnt deal there #1 straight up for Strasburg and I believe it would be 1 or 2 at most.

I think there are only 4 pitchers in baseball that teams might not deal for him:
David Price
Josh Johnson
Ubaldo Jiminez
Felix Hernandez

Listen, I know that I am in the minority on this persepective. I did provide two names, Jim Callis from Baseball America and Keith Law from ESPN that share my beliefs but everyone is entitled to whatever they think. I choose to look at how great this kid will be and how good he already is.

It is kind of like the NBA. John Wall hasnt played a game yet but the vast majority of teams would deal their point guards for him. Why? Because of the potential greatness of the kid.


First of all the basketball analogy is completely irrelevant to the discussion. John Wall is not one of the better prospects to come out in a long time to alot of scouts, the comparison of Wall coming out and Strasburg coming out isn't even close. And I don't want to argue with you over your point, which i clearly mis read from the beginning, because thats not what I'm trying to dispute. Clearly based off potential many managers would trade their ace except for 5-7, but as for this year, he wont be a top 10 pitcher, mark it. Like i said, top 20-25 is not anything to sneeze at and he'd be well on his way to being a top ace for a long time.

He wont be a top 10 pitcher if you simply look at total wins and other categories where the other top pitchers didnt miss 2 months of the season. That is pretty obvious.
Yes you misunderstood my point. My point was that there would be very few teams that wouldnt deal their top pitcher for Strasburg and I really believe that. I also think that right now there would be less than 10 pitchers in all of baseball that I would want on the mound for me. I do believe he is a top 10 pitcher right now although the stats and wins for 2010 certainly will not show that.

As to the John Wall.. it was to make a point. Yes, he isnt the incredible prospect that Strasburg is but the vast majority of NBA teams would still trade almost any player on their roster for a chance to have him on their team for many years. Just like Strasburg.

LOL what? You're putting him on Lebron status right now, he wasn't even the clear cut #1 prospect coming out, a lot of teams would have wanted Turner..

He might not even be the most successful NBA player from his Kentucky team

So you dont think teams would trade almost ( and notice i said ALMOST) anyone from their roster for Wall? Of course most teams would. The Warriors would deal anyone other than Curry for Wall in a heartbeat. Cleveland.. anyone other than LeBron. The Lakers.. anyone other than Kobe and Gasol. Celtics? Anyone other than Rondo. Most teams.. anyone at all. This isnt a hard concept and how is this putting him on the same level as LeBron?

As far as a lot of teams prefering Turner.. well I didnt know you had the ear of all the GMS in the league. That is really interesting. I dont buy it however. But, thats besides the point.

The point is again.... teams do see star players (whether they are Evan Turner or John Wall or any fricking kid from college) and project how great they will be. If they think they are THAT good they will trade current stars for them. If there is potential greatness and the kind of player that can take them to the promised land teams will do some crazy things to get them. Maybe you dont remember trading an entire draft to get Ricky Williams. Maybe you dont remember the Warriors trading Penny Hardaway AND 3 FIRST RD PICKS to get Chris Webber.

Alright, agree to disagree man. You put so much stock into talent that hasn't even touched a professional court its pointless to argue.

There's a really dope high school kid that just committed to Kansas that lives up the street, I'll go knock on his door and tell him the Celtics are trading Kendrick Perkins to the Jayhawks for him cuz he has that much talent and potential!

Nice attempt at humor but it didnt work. I guess teams were pretty happy that they took high school players like Kevin Garnett, Kobe Bryant, Lebron James, etc, etc right out of HS without even seeing them play in college. Why did they take them early in the draft without even seeing them play in college? TALENT AND POTENTIAL. I can add baseball players to that as well. I guess AROD and Griffey JR werent too bad even though they came right out of HS.


Oh your HS kid.. maybe you can tell him about this HS kid that the Lakers traded a big man much better than Perkins for. He was unproven at the time. Ya.. I guess Kobe was worth it.

I dont even know what you can disagree with but sure we can agree to disagree if that makes you happy.

Thats a few lucky picks out of dozens. For every KG, Kobe, Amare, Lebron theres dozens of Eddy Currys, Gerald Greens, and Kwame Browns. Those teams all saw talent and potential in those guys and they all went on to be huge busts. Yeah some teams get lucky with a Kobe or KG but its never a guarantee they're gonna pan out. The same goes for baseball. I'm rooting for Strasburg to be one of the best ever and I love watching him play but I'm gonna give him a full year or two in the bigs before I decide whether or not he's not gonna burn out.
Originally posted by NinerFanMT:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by DynastyChile:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by DynastyChile:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by DynastyChile:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by DynastyChile:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by TheChozen:
I'll give Strasburg some credit. He's gonna be a stud but don't take anything away from other MLB teams and players. Right now, he's just a small fish in a big pond. He's faced one team with a winning record and got beat. Say what you will about the Nats offense but Tim Hudson pitched awesome too(yeah, he was in the game too.) I just think its too early to carve his bust in Cooperstown yet.

Of course its too early to put him in Cooperstown but there is no doubt in my mind that he is a top 10 pitcher already in the majors. He is going to get beat like every pitcher in history has especially playing with the Nats. The guy he is compared to in this thread barely won more games that he lost.

Here is a good question. How many teams in all of baseball wouldnt trade their #1 Sp for Strasburg? Can you name 3? I cant. 2? I still cant.


That is just simply not true. There are 30 teams in the MLB, the majority has an ace, and the majority of them at this point are better. When he started out this season cracking top 25 pitchers was where he was projected to be, and it looks about right to me once its all said and done.

ESPN just jizzed all over him right when he came out so they could make money and put him on sunday night games ETC, and it worked for a while, but he is gonna have struggles. He is gonna be filthy, but its gonna take some time.

After 5 decisions a 2-2 record w a 2.27 ERA and almost 50K is about right, he probably wont end up that much over .500 because A. he wont have the same control every game B. Big leaguers will start to figure him out a little more and C. he wont get much run support.

You are completley wrong in my opinion if you think that the majority of teams have ace pitchers that are better than Strasburg.

OK.. lets go team for team then:
Giants - Lincecum MAYBE but he sure isnt showing it
Rockies -Ubaldo - ok yes
Dodgers -Kershaw -no although i do like kershaw
Arizona Haren - um.. NO
Padres Latos - no

Brewers - Gallardo -yes by a bit
Cards - Wainwright - yes
Cubs - no one
Astros - no one
Pirates - no one
Reds - no one

Mets Pelfrey .. no and no way for Santana either
Phillies Halliday yes
Marlins Johnson yes
Braves Hansen no

A's no one
Texas no one
Seattle Felix maybe although he hasnt shown it
Angels Weaver - maybe but doubtful

Tigers Verlander - maybe
KC Greinke no
Minn Lirinao no
Cleve no one
Chicago no

NY Sabathia yes
Boston Beckett? no Lester? maybe
TB Price Yes
Balti no one
Toron no one

OK - i may give you 9-10 teams that would think their ace is better right now. MAYBE. However, that wasnt the question. It certainly isnt the majority of the teams.

The question was how many teams wouldnt deal there #1 straight up for Strasburg and I believe it would be 1 or 2 at most.

I think there are only 4 pitchers in baseball that teams might not deal for him:
David Price
Josh Johnson
Ubaldo Jiminez
Felix Hernandez

Listen, I know that I am in the minority on this persepective. I did provide two names, Jim Callis from Baseball America and Keith Law from ESPN that share my beliefs but everyone is entitled to whatever they think. I choose to look at how great this kid will be and how good he already is.

It is kind of like the NBA. John Wall hasnt played a game yet but the vast majority of teams would deal their point guards for him. Why? Because of the potential greatness of the kid.


First of all the basketball analogy is completely irrelevant to the discussion. John Wall is not one of the better prospects to come out in a long time to alot of scouts, the comparison of Wall coming out and Strasburg coming out isn't even close. And I don't want to argue with you over your point, which i clearly mis read from the beginning, because thats not what I'm trying to dispute. Clearly based off potential many managers would trade their ace except for 5-7, but as for this year, he wont be a top 10 pitcher, mark it. Like i said, top 20-25 is not anything to sneeze at and he'd be well on his way to being a top ace for a long time.

He wont be a top 10 pitcher if you simply look at total wins and other categories where the other top pitchers didnt miss 2 months of the season. That is pretty obvious.
Yes you misunderstood my point. My point was that there would be very few teams that wouldnt deal their top pitcher for Strasburg and I really believe that. I also think that right now there would be less than 10 pitchers in all of baseball that I would want on the mound for me. I do believe he is a top 10 pitcher right now although the stats and wins for 2010 certainly will not show that.

As to the John Wall.. it was to make a point. Yes, he isnt the incredible prospect that Strasburg is but the vast majority of NBA teams would still trade almost any player on their roster for a chance to have him on their team for many years. Just like Strasburg.

LOL what? You're putting him on Lebron status right now, he wasn't even the clear cut #1 prospect coming out, a lot of teams would have wanted Turner..

He might not even be the most successful NBA player from his Kentucky team

So you dont think teams would trade almost ( and notice i said ALMOST) anyone from their roster for Wall? Of course most teams would. The Warriors would deal anyone other than Curry for Wall in a heartbeat. Cleveland.. anyone other than LeBron. The Lakers.. anyone other than Kobe and Gasol. Celtics? Anyone other than Rondo. Most teams.. anyone at all. This isnt a hard concept and how is this putting him on the same level as LeBron?

As far as a lot of teams prefering Turner.. well I didnt know you had the ear of all the GMS in the league. That is really interesting. I dont buy it however. But, thats besides the point.

The point is again.... teams do see star players (whether they are Evan Turner or John Wall or any fricking kid from college) and project how great they will be. If they think they are THAT good they will trade current stars for them. If there is potential greatness and the kind of player that can take them to the promised land teams will do some crazy things to get them. Maybe you dont remember trading an entire draft to get Ricky Williams. Maybe you dont remember the Warriors trading Penny Hardaway AND 3 FIRST RD PICKS to get Chris Webber.

Alright, agree to disagree man. You put so much stock into talent that hasn't even touched a professional court its pointless to argue.

There's a really dope high school kid that just committed to Kansas that lives up the street, I'll go knock on his door and tell him the Celtics are trading Kendrick Perkins to the Jayhawks for him cuz he has that much talent and potential!

Nice attempt at humor but it didnt work. I guess teams were pretty happy that they took high school players like Kevin Garnett, Kobe Bryant, Lebron James, etc, etc right out of HS without even seeing them play in college. Why did they take them early in the draft without even seeing them play in college? TALENT AND POTENTIAL. I can add baseball players to that as well. I guess AROD and Griffey JR werent too bad even though they came right out of HS.


Oh your HS kid.. maybe you can tell him about this HS kid that the Lakers traded a big man much better than Perkins for. He was unproven at the time. Ya.. I guess Kobe was worth it.

I dont even know what you can disagree with but sure we can agree to disagree if that makes you happy.

Thats a few lucky picks out of dozens. For every KG, Kobe, Amare, Lebron theres dozens of Eddy Currys, Gerald Greens, and Kwame Browns. Those teams all saw talent and potential in those guys and they all went on to be huge busts. Yeah some teams get lucky with a Kobe or KG but its never a guarantee they're gonna pan out. The same goes for baseball. I'm rooting for Strasburg to be one of the best ever and I love watching him play but I'm gonna give him a full year or two in the bigs before I decide whether or not he's not gonna burn out.

...and that is the sane way to look at it.
Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:
Originally posted by NinerFanMT:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by DynastyChile:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by DynastyChile:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by DynastyChile:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by DynastyChile:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by TheChozen:
I'll give Strasburg some credit. He's gonna be a stud but don't take anything away from other MLB teams and players. Right now, he's just a small fish in a big pond. He's faced one team with a winning record and got beat. Say what you will about the Nats offense but Tim Hudson pitched awesome too(yeah, he was in the game too.) I just think its too early to carve his bust in Cooperstown yet.

Of course its too early to put him in Cooperstown but there is no doubt in my mind that he is a top 10 pitcher already in the majors. He is going to get beat like every pitcher in history has especially playing with the Nats. The guy he is compared to in this thread barely won more games that he lost.

Here is a good question. How many teams in all of baseball wouldnt trade their #1 Sp for Strasburg? Can you name 3? I cant. 2? I still cant.


That is just simply not true. There are 30 teams in the MLB, the majority has an ace, and the majority of them at this point are better. When he started out this season cracking top 25 pitchers was where he was projected to be, and it looks about right to me once its all said and done.

ESPN just jizzed all over him right when he came out so they could make money and put him on sunday night games ETC, and it worked for a while, but he is gonna have struggles. He is gonna be filthy, but its gonna take some time.

After 5 decisions a 2-2 record w a 2.27 ERA and almost 50K is about right, he probably wont end up that much over .500 because A. he wont have the same control every game B. Big leaguers will start to figure him out a little more and C. he wont get much run support.

You are completley wrong in my opinion if you think that the majority of teams have ace pitchers that are better than Strasburg.

OK.. lets go team for team then:
Giants - Lincecum MAYBE but he sure isnt showing it
Rockies -Ubaldo - ok yes
Dodgers -Kershaw -no although i do like kershaw
Arizona Haren - um.. NO
Padres Latos - no

Brewers - Gallardo -yes by a bit
Cards - Wainwright - yes
Cubs - no one
Astros - no one
Pirates - no one
Reds - no one

Mets Pelfrey .. no and no way for Santana either
Phillies Halliday yes
Marlins Johnson yes
Braves Hansen no

A's no one
Texas no one
Seattle Felix maybe although he hasnt shown it
Angels Weaver - maybe but doubtful

Tigers Verlander - maybe
KC Greinke no
Minn Lirinao no
Cleve no one
Chicago no

NY Sabathia yes
Boston Beckett? no Lester? maybe
TB Price Yes
Balti no one
Toron no one

OK - i may give you 9-10 teams that would think their ace is better right now. MAYBE. However, that wasnt the question. It certainly isnt the majority of the teams.

The question was how many teams wouldnt deal there #1 straight up for Strasburg and I believe it would be 1 or 2 at most.

I think there are only 4 pitchers in baseball that teams might not deal for him:
David Price
Josh Johnson
Ubaldo Jiminez
Felix Hernandez

Listen, I know that I am in the minority on this persepective. I did provide two names, Jim Callis from Baseball America and Keith Law from ESPN that share my beliefs but everyone is entitled to whatever they think. I choose to look at how great this kid will be and how good he already is.

It is kind of like the NBA. John Wall hasnt played a game yet but the vast majority of teams would deal their point guards for him. Why? Because of the potential greatness of the kid.


First of all the basketball analogy is completely irrelevant to the discussion. John Wall is not one of the better prospects to come out in a long time to alot of scouts, the comparison of Wall coming out and Strasburg coming out isn't even close. And I don't want to argue with you over your point, which i clearly mis read from the beginning, because thats not what I'm trying to dispute. Clearly based off potential many managers would trade their ace except for 5-7, but as for this year, he wont be a top 10 pitcher, mark it. Like i said, top 20-25 is not anything to sneeze at and he'd be well on his way to being a top ace for a long time.

He wont be a top 10 pitcher if you simply look at total wins and other categories where the other top pitchers didnt miss 2 months of the season. That is pretty obvious.
Yes you misunderstood my point. My point was that there would be very few teams that wouldnt deal their top pitcher for Strasburg and I really believe that. I also think that right now there would be less than 10 pitchers in all of baseball that I would want on the mound for me. I do believe he is a top 10 pitcher right now although the stats and wins for 2010 certainly will not show that.

As to the John Wall.. it was to make a point. Yes, he isnt the incredible prospect that Strasburg is but the vast majority of NBA teams would still trade almost any player on their roster for a chance to have him on their team for many years. Just like Strasburg.

LOL what? You're putting him on Lebron status right now, he wasn't even the clear cut #1 prospect coming out, a lot of teams would have wanted Turner..

He might not even be the most successful NBA player from his Kentucky team

So you dont think teams would trade almost ( and notice i said ALMOST) anyone from their roster for Wall? Of course most teams would. The Warriors would deal anyone other than Curry for Wall in a heartbeat. Cleveland.. anyone other than LeBron. The Lakers.. anyone other than Kobe and Gasol. Celtics? Anyone other than Rondo. Most teams.. anyone at all. This isnt a hard concept and how is this putting him on the same level as LeBron?

As far as a lot of teams prefering Turner.. well I didnt know you had the ear of all the GMS in the league. That is really interesting. I dont buy it however. But, thats besides the point.

The point is again.... teams do see star players (whether they are Evan Turner or John Wall or any fricking kid from college) and project how great they will be. If they think they are THAT good they will trade current stars for them. If there is potential greatness and the kind of player that can take them to the promised land teams will do some crazy things to get them. Maybe you dont remember trading an entire draft to get Ricky Williams. Maybe you dont remember the Warriors trading Penny Hardaway AND 3 FIRST RD PICKS to get Chris Webber.

Alright, agree to disagree man. You put so much stock into talent that hasn't even touched a professional court its pointless to argue.

There's a really dope high school kid that just committed to Kansas that lives up the street, I'll go knock on his door and tell him the Celtics are trading Kendrick Perkins to the Jayhawks for him cuz he has that much talent and potential!

Nice attempt at humor but it didnt work. I guess teams were pretty happy that they took high school players like Kevin Garnett, Kobe Bryant, Lebron James, etc, etc right out of HS without even seeing them play in college. Why did they take them early in the draft without even seeing them play in college? TALENT AND POTENTIAL. I can add baseball players to that as well. I guess AROD and Griffey JR werent too bad even though they came right out of HS.


Oh your HS kid.. maybe you can tell him about this HS kid that the Lakers traded a big man much better than Perkins for. He was unproven at the time. Ya.. I guess Kobe was worth it.

I dont even know what you can disagree with but sure we can agree to disagree if that makes you happy.

Thats a few lucky picks out of dozens. For every KG, Kobe, Amare, Lebron theres dozens of Eddy Currys, Gerald Greens, and Kwame Browns. Those teams all saw talent and potential in those guys and they all went on to be huge busts. Yeah some teams get lucky with a Kobe or KG but its never a guarantee they're gonna pan out. The same goes for baseball. I'm rooting for Strasburg to be one of the best ever and I love watching him play but I'm gonna give him a full year or two in the bigs before I decide whether or not he's not gonna burn out.

...and that is the sane way to look at it.




There is no more of a guarantee that Tim Lincecum wont burn out and hurt his arm than Strasburg. In fact, with his body size Lincy is more likely to have that happen. You can count on 2 fingers pitchers of that size who have had long and successful careers.

Injuries can happen to anyone. The talent that Strasburg has comes around maybe once every 20 years and that is why people are so excited about him. Will he be Nolan Ryan? Maybe not. I wouldnt bet against it though.
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
There is no more of a guarantee that Tim Lincecum wont burn out and hurt his arm than Strasburg. In fact, with his body size Lincy is more likely to have that happen. You can count on 2 fingers pitchers of that size who have had long and successful careers.

Injuries can happen to anyone. The talent that Strasburg has comes around maybe once every 20 years and that is why people are so excited about him. Will he be Nolan Ryan? Maybe not. I wouldnt bet against it though.


How about,'' As close as we're going to get to Nolan Ryan?''
Originally posted by TonyStarks:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
There is no more of a guarantee that Tim Lincecum wont burn out and hurt his arm than Strasburg. In fact, with his body size Lincy is more likely to have that happen. You can count on 2 fingers pitchers of that size who have had long and successful careers.

Injuries can happen to anyone. The talent that Strasburg has comes around maybe once every 20 years and that is why people are so excited about him. Will he be Nolan Ryan? Maybe not. I wouldnt bet against it though.


How about,'' As close as we're going to get to Nolan Ryan?''

I think that is a very good way to put it. He has that electric fastball and huge curve that Nolan had and is the type that has no hit potential when he takes the mound.

I think I am looking at what he CAN do and the upside he has to be incredibly great. Others are simply skeptical because he hasnt done much yet. They also love to compare him to Mark Prior which is silly in my opinion.

Time will tell if he is as great as I think he will be. All I know is I would give just about anything for him to be pitching on my team for the next decade. It should be interesting when he has a bad outing though. All of the "i told you so's" will come out.
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by TonyStarks:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
There is no more of a guarantee that Tim Lincecum wont burn out and hurt his arm than Strasburg. In fact, with his body size Lincy is more likely to have that happen. You can count on 2 fingers pitchers of that size who have had long and successful careers.

Injuries can happen to anyone. The talent that Strasburg has comes around maybe once every 20 years and that is why people are so excited about him. Will he be Nolan Ryan? Maybe not. I wouldnt bet against it though.


How about,'' As close as we're going to get to Nolan Ryan?''

I think that is a very good way to put it. He has that electric fastball and huge curve that Nolan had and is the type that has no hit potential when he takes the mound.

I think I am looking at what he CAN do and the upside he has to be incredibly great. Others are simply skeptical because he hasnt done much yet. They also love to compare him to Mark Prior which is silly in my opinion.

Time will tell if he is as great as I think he will be. All I know is I would give just about anything for him to be pitching on my team for the next decade. It should be interesting when he has a bad outing though. All of the "i told you so's" will come out.

no, all of the sensible people will come out
Originally posted by DynastyChile:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by TonyStarks:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
There is no more of a guarantee that Tim Lincecum wont burn out and hurt his arm than Strasburg. In fact, with his body size Lincy is more likely to have that happen. You can count on 2 fingers pitchers of that size who have had long and successful careers.

Injuries can happen to anyone. The talent that Strasburg has comes around maybe once every 20 years and that is why people are so excited about him. Will he be Nolan Ryan? Maybe not. I wouldnt bet against it though.


How about,'' As close as we're going to get to Nolan Ryan?''

I think that is a very good way to put it. He has that electric fastball and huge curve that Nolan had and is the type that has no hit potential when he takes the mound.

I think I am looking at what he CAN do and the upside he has to be incredibly great. Others are simply skeptical because he hasnt done much yet. They also love to compare him to Mark Prior which is silly in my opinion.

Time will tell if he is as great as I think he will be. All I know is I would give just about anything for him to be pitching on my team for the next decade. It should be interesting when he has a bad outing though. All of the "i told you so's" will come out.

no, all of the sensible people will come out

Ya. probably guys who never played past little league and are clueless on the game.
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by DynastyChile:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by TonyStarks:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
There is no more of a guarantee that Tim Lincecum wont burn out and hurt his arm than Strasburg. In fact, with his body size Lincy is more likely to have that happen. You can count on 2 fingers pitchers of that size who have had long and successful careers.

Injuries can happen to anyone. The talent that Strasburg has comes around maybe once every 20 years and that is why people are so excited about him. Will he be Nolan Ryan? Maybe not. I wouldnt bet against it though.


How about,'' As close as we're going to get to Nolan Ryan?''

I think that is a very good way to put it. He has that electric fastball and huge curve that Nolan had and is the type that has no hit potential when he takes the mound.

I think I am looking at what he CAN do and the upside he has to be incredibly great. Others are simply skeptical because he hasnt done much yet. They also love to compare him to Mark Prior which is silly in my opinion.

Time will tell if he is as great as I think he will be. All I know is I would give just about anything for him to be pitching on my team for the next decade. It should be interesting when he has a bad outing though. All of the "i told you so's" will come out.

no, all of the sensible people will come out

Ya. probably guys who never played past little league and are clueless on the game.

Strasburg held out because of shoulder inflammation

We'll be hearing more about the Mark Prior similarities for awhile before anyone mentions Strasburg and Nolan Ryan in the same sentence.
Nolan Ryan would have played

...