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Is Stephen Strasburg really the next Nolan Ryan?

Is Stephen Strasburg really the next Nolan Ryan?

edit.

[ Edited by Niners99 on Jun 15, 2010 at 03:07:24 ]
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by BirdmanJr:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by crzy:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by StOnEy333:
Originally posted by TheNaitch:
Originally posted by TonyStarks:
95-97 mph CURVEBALLS!

Insanity

Let's not get carried away
. It's an 83-84 MPH Curve ball.

No s**t.



There's more to winning the world series than having a young stud pitcher. Case in point, the SF Giants and their 2 time Cy Young Award winning youngster.

Yes but the Giants dont have any hitters with the upside of Zimmerman or Harper.



Don't forget the chosen one....Mr. Posey

Love Buster but I just dont believe he will have the power upside of either Zimmerman or Harper. That isnt a slight on Buster at all.

lol come on...really? because of a slow start youre already dropping Sandoval out of a discussion with upside compared to Zimmerman? Zim isnt THAT good. imo Sandoval shouldve won the Silver Slugger over Zim last year. he had an avg 40 pts higher...

but anyways, you cant claim Bryce Harper is anything more than a "prospect" who could easily flame out. so many players have been "cant miss" guys. they look like those Harper type hitters, and end up crapping out. Buster Posey is hitting like a 10 year vet at the major league level at age 23. a bird in the hand is better than 2 in the bush.

Zimmerman is a great 3B, but at this point id still take Sandoval and Posey over him and Harper.

besides, the Nationals clearly dont have a good understanding of how to win. i dont exactly trust them to handle these players development correctly, or support them with a team around them. at the end of their rookie contract they could be telling the Nats to kick rocks.

You are nuts. I promise you there isnt a GM in baseball that takes Panda Fat Boy over Ryan Zimmerman. Zimmerman has 35-40 hr potentia every year. He is also a much better defender. That isnt close.

I didnt say that Buster wasnt good but that Harper had the much bigger power upside. Buster will be a 15 hr guy most likely. However time will tell.

I would take Zimmerman and Harper over Posey and Panda any day of the week.

Strasburg,Harper, and Zimmerman would be chosen over Lincecum, Panda, and Posey by any GM in baseball. It would be a no brainer actually.

Zimmerman has never hit 35HR's..the most he hit was 33 and that was last year (4th full season)

Panda hit 25 in his first full season with a .330 avg...the most Zimm got before last year was 24...His defense is much better than Panda's ill give u that but Zimmerman is not that much better than Panda..the only thing he's proven over Panda is that he can hit over 30 HR's...

Harper? The guy hasn't played in the MLB ever, it's dumb to say its a no brainer. Same goes for Strasburg, he could end up like Kerry Wood..

Of course all the Giants fans will disagree with this. I've been a Giants fan longer than anyone here (except for Ron) but I also look at things objectively and know that any GM would take the Nationals 3 players for the next decade over the Giants 3. That isnt taking anything away from Lincy, Panda, or Posey. Its simply recognzing great talent.

Posey will be a damn good player but I just dont think he is going to be a middle of the order power hitting stud like Harper may be. Panda may be out of the league in 5 years if he doesnt get a handle on his weight and Zimmerman is one of the best 3b in baseball right now. timmy vs Strasburg is the interesting debate but I seriously dont see any baseball guy taking Lincecum in that.

it doesnt matter how LONG youve been a Giants fan. there are old people who have been Giants fans since they played in New York, but could only tell you about old time players. length of time as a fan has nothing to do with knowledge of baseball.

youre buying WAY too much into the hype. you place Strasburg and Harper WAY too high on a pedestal just because of raw talent. all the talent in the world doesnt mean crap unless you prove it at the major league level.

salaries aside, call up ANY major league team and offer them Lincecum, Sandoval, and Posey or Strasburg, Zimmerman, and Harper, i GUARANTEE you every single major league team takes the Giants trio. proven commodities are worth ALOT more than prospects. Strasburg HOPES to be Tim Lincecum in a few years.

go look at Zimmermans career stats. in 4 full major league seasons, he averages 96 R, 26 HR, 98 RBI, .351 OB%, .286 avg, and he strikes out alot. 119 k's per season on average.

youre telling me a younger Sandoval who could EASILY match those stats every year while hitting 40+ pts higher and getting base more often, is significantly less valuable? who gives a flying frick if hes fat. Prince Fielder is even fatter, and im pretty sure youd be ok with being a Giant.

Zim and Sandoval are very similar values. Zim's a GG defender, Pablo is average. Pablo could win a batting title, Zim cant. they both could score 85-100 runs, drive in 85-100 rbis, and hit 25 homers.

and you could easily argue that a young catcher that can hit well enough to be a middle of the order batter, as well as having a great arm, and is major league ready now, proving hes for real, is a much safer bet than some 17 year old kid who hits moonshots in BP.

listen to yourself. ive already proven why Sandoval and Zim are very similar valued players. Lincecum is a 25 year old ace whos won the CY twice in 2 seasons at the big league level. and Buster Posey one of the elite young catchers who breezed through the minors and is already raking major league pitching at age 23.

take away salaries, and the Giants trio is chosen over the Nats trio by all 31 other teams, including the Nationals. easily. youve let the Strasburg hype cloud your judgement. hes going to miss bats for a while until the major leagues gets a good scouting report on how to hit him.

we havent seen him work through a slump, or if he can even keep this up long term. what happens if he loses his velocity? can he pitch, or just throw? Lincecum has proven this year even with lost velocity, he can be smart and pitch his way through it ala Greg Maddux.

As a Nats fan this thread is bringing me tears. the fact that anybody would even consider taking 3 key Nats players over any other teams' key players is positive step forward. I think folks need to let Strasburg to play some more games. It won't really be til next year or so before the training wheels fully come off. As for Harper he just rubs me the wrong way but I have no clue how great of a prospect he really is.
Originally posted by lamontb:
As a Nats fan this thread is bringing me tears. the fact that anybody would even consider taking 3 key Nats players over any other teams' key players is positive step forward. I think folks need to let Strasburg to play some more games. It won't really be til next year or so before the training wheels fully come off. As for Harper he just rubs me the wrong way but I have no clue how great of a prospect he really is.

well, imo anyone who thinks those 3 are worth more than 3 key major leaguers is delusional, but yeah, the Nats have some hope on the horizon. just pray that the front office doesnt screw it up like they did in Montreal. the Expos were the farm system for the major leagues.

basically, Harper is a high school kid whos the size of a grown man and can hit the ball farther than most grown men. his raw potential is incredible, but so was Angel Villalona's.

ANY prospect whos that young is a total crapshoot, and cant be counted on to become anything. Harper has only faced high school pitching and BP fastballs. his power is really rare for someone that young, but if he cant hit major league caliber offspeed pitches, hes useless. time will tell how he develops, but anyone that raw at 17 years old is just a roll of the dice.
  • SportinWood
  • Info N/A
Originally posted by lamontb:
As a Nats fan this thread is bringing me tears. the fact that anybody would even consider taking 3 key Nats players over any other teams' key players is positive step forward. I think folks need to let Strasburg to play some more games. It won't really be til next year or so before the training wheels fully come off. As for Harper he just rubs me the wrong way but I have no clue how great of a prospect he really is.

[clap] best of luck I'm happy for the Nats
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by lamontb:
As a Nats fan this thread is bringing me tears. the fact that anybody would even consider taking 3 key Nats players over any other teams' key players is positive step forward. I think folks need to let Strasburg to play some more games. It won't really be til next year or so before the training wheels fully come off. As for Harper he just rubs me the wrong way but I have no clue how great of a prospect he really is.

well, imo anyone who thinks those 3 are worth more than 3 key major leaguers is delusional, but yeah, the Nats have some hope on the horizon. just pray that the front office doesnt screw it up like they did in Montreal. the Expos were the farm system for the major leagues.

basically, Harper is a high school kid whos the size of a grown man and can hit the ball farther than most grown men. his raw potential is incredible, but so was Angel Villalona's.

ANY prospect whos that young is a total crapshoot, and cant be counted on to become anything. Harper has only faced high school pitching and BP fastballs. his power is really rare for someone that young, but if he cant hit major league caliber offspeed pitches, hes useless. time will tell how he develops, but anyone that raw at 17 years old is just a roll of the dice.

I think you are severely understating how good Harper is. The guy is seen as the best hitting prospect to come out in a decade. the guy was absolutely destroying junior college pitching during what should have been his junior year in high school. JUCO is a step up from high school whether you will admit it or not and it's not like he's just a batting practice hitter (someone who hits well in batting practice but not so well in games). What he did, playing against older competition, with wood bats (which college guys don't even do) is just unheard of.

The guy is an Arod, Josh Hamilton type of talent and not your average high school player. The fact that you bring him and Giants fans' ex-mancrush Angel Villanova as parallel types of players is laughable.
Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by lamontb:
As a Nats fan this thread is bringing me tears. the fact that anybody would even consider taking 3 key Nats players over any other teams' key players is positive step forward. I think folks need to let Strasburg to play some more games. It won't really be til next year or so before the training wheels fully come off. As for Harper he just rubs me the wrong way but I have no clue how great of a prospect he really is.

well, imo anyone who thinks those 3 are worth more than 3 key major leaguers is delusional, but yeah, the Nats have some hope on the horizon. just pray that the front office doesnt screw it up like they did in Montreal. the Expos were the farm system for the major leagues.

basically, Harper is a high school kid whos the size of a grown man and can hit the ball farther than most grown men. his raw potential is incredible, but so was Angel Villalona's.

ANY prospect whos that young is a total crapshoot, and cant be counted on to become anything. Harper has only faced high school pitching and BP fastballs. his power is really rare for someone that young, but if he cant hit major league caliber offspeed pitches, hes useless. time will tell how he develops, but anyone that raw at 17 years old is just a roll of the dice.

I think you are severely understating how good Harper is. The guy is seen as the best hitting prospect to come out in a decade. the guy was absolutely destroying junior college pitching during what should have been his junior year in high school. JUCO is a step up from high school whether you will admit it or not and it's not like he's just a batting practice hitter (someone who hits well in batting practice but not so well in games). What he did, playing against older competition, with wood bats (which college guys don't even do) is just unheard of.

The guy is an Arod, Josh Hamilton type of talent and not your average high school player. The fact that you bring him and Giants fans' ex-mancrush Angel Villanova as parallel types of players is laughable.

point out where i said they were similar RIGHT NOW? you cant, because i didnt say that. when a prospect is 18 years old or under, you cant count on ANYTHING. i dont give crap how talented he is. until he proves he can hit major league offspeed pitches, im not impressed.

the keyword is "prospect". lets wait until he solidifies himself as a major league force before you start creaming your pants.
Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by lamontb:
As a Nats fan this thread is bringing me tears. the fact that anybody would even consider taking 3 key Nats players over any other teams' key players is positive step forward. I think folks need to let Strasburg to play some more games. It won't really be til next year or so before the training wheels fully come off. As for Harper he just rubs me the wrong way but I have no clue how great of a prospect he really is.

well, imo anyone who thinks those 3 are worth more than 3 key major leaguers is delusional, but yeah, the Nats have some hope on the horizon. just pray that the front office doesnt screw it up like they did in Montreal. the Expos were the farm system for the major leagues.

basically, Harper is a high school kid whos the size of a grown man and can hit the ball farther than most grown men. his raw potential is incredible, but so was Angel Villalona's.

ANY prospect whos that young is a total crapshoot, and cant be counted on to become anything. Harper has only faced high school pitching and BP fastballs. his power is really rare for someone that young, but if he cant hit major league caliber offspeed pitches, hes useless. time will tell how he develops, but anyone that raw at 17 years old is just a roll of the dice.

I think you are severely understating how good Harper is. The guy is seen as the best hitting prospect to come out in a decade. the guy was absolutely destroying junior college pitching during what should have been his junior year in high school. JUCO is a step up from high school whether you will admit it or not and it's not like he's just a batting practice hitter (someone who hits well in batting practice but not so well in games). What he did, playing against older competition, with wood bats (which college guys don't even do) is just unheard of.

The guy is an Arod, Josh Hamilton type of talent and not your average high school player. The fact that you bring him and Giants fans' ex-mancrush Angel Villanova as parallel types of players is laughable.

ATG.. trying to debate anything with this guy is impossible. You make excellent points. One is that he did face JUCO pitching and not just HS pitching. He dominated that level thats for sure.

Harper is a special talent with tremendous upside. Is he a 100% sure thing to make the Hall of Fame? Of course not. Is he someone that every single team in baseball would have drafted #1 because of his incredible talent.. hell yes. Angel Villalona was never considered the talent that this kid is.
Is dude really comparing Villalona to Harper?
The Stras' pitches today , correct?
Originally posted by TonyStarks:
The Stras' pitches today , correct?

Yep. I believe he goes against Gavin FLoyd of the CSox.
The Nationals brought him at the right time, letting him go against these sucky lineups to build his confidence
Originally posted by valrod33:
The Nationals brought him at the right time, letting him go against these sucky lineups to build his confidence

It could have been easier. He could have gone against the Braves lineup.
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by valrod33:
The Nationals brought him at the right time, letting him go against these sucky lineups to build his confidence

It could have been easier. He could have gone against the Braves lineup.

or even easier than that...the Giants


I think Strasburg will get his shot at the braves at the end of this month
I wonder how many pitchers have pitched in the majors. I'm not sure. What I am sure of is that Stephen Strasburg now has the most K's of any pitcher in history in his first 3 starts.

Pretty decent Stats in his 2 home starts.. 24 Ks 0 BBs