Malone, Pippen elected to Hall

Originally posted by dobophile:
My view: a basketball player's actual value lies in what he forces his opponents to do to account for him on both ends of the floor, and that mostly doesn't show up in the box score.

I've wasted hours of my life and thousands of posts trying to effectively communicate that point, and never have. I hate you.

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by valrod33:

Originally posted by crzy:

Originally posted by Niners99:
and the best PF in NBA history

Karl Malone accomplished absolutely nothing in his prime.

Only when Barkley, Hakeem were way past their primes, and the Kemp Sonics imploded did the Jazz make the Finals.

One of the most overrated players in NBA history.

this

all time leading scorers:

1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - 38,387
2. Karl Malone - 36,928
3. Michael Jordan - 32,292
4. Wilt Chamberlain - 31,419
5. Shaquille O'Neal - 28,255



34. Tim Duncan - 20,330

Malone is also 1st in NBA history in free throws attempted and made, as well as 1st in defensive rebounds.

i watched Malone play alot more than most other people. he was that good, and he was the best PF ever. people have the same bias against Malone that they do with Barry Bonds. you dont like Malone, you think hes an ass, and a crappy person, so you laugh off the notion that the NBA's 2nd all time leading scorer might be the best to play his position.

basketball is a team sport. Malone not winning any titles shouldnt detract from how hes remembered as a player. he was an MVP caliber force that could dominate the paint, and stick a fade jumper in your face on the perimeter.

That's a terrible argument. Karl Malone played for 19 seasons, which is why he's #2 all time on the list. It's a testament to his longevity. He was a slightly better scorer than Duncan, but Duncan was a better rebounder and a MUCH, MUCH better defender.

You say that he ran into the "Jordan buzzsaw", but the truth is...he only got out of the West twice in his 18 years in Utah, despite having arguably the 2nd best PG of all time feeding him the ball. That has nothing to do with the Bulls. By contrast, Duncan's lead his team to 4 titles despite having to face the Kobe/Shaq Lakers for years.

Duncan was the better player, and it isn't really all that close.

Malone is garbage, that wrestler wannabe

Originally posted by dobophile:
Scottie Pippen is an interesting case. He's polarizing.

Many people think he's among the most underrated players of all time. (Which is hard for me to swallow since he's on the 50th Anniversary All-Time Team and now will be inducted in the Hall.)

I think he's one of the most overrated players of all time. A great, great player, a fantastic defender, etc. Deserving of the Hall. But not one of the all-time greats, IMO.

why dont you think he is one of the all time greats

Originally posted by valrod33:

Originally posted by dobophile:
Scottie Pippen is an interesting case. He's polarizing.

Many people think he's among the most underrated players of all time. (Which is hard for me to swallow since he's on the 50th Anniversary All-Time Team and now will be inducted in the Hall.)

I think he's one of the most overrated players of all time. A great, great player, a fantastic defender, etc. Deserving of the Hall. But not one of the all-time greats, IMO.

why dont you think he is one of the all time greats

because a basketball player's actual value lies in what he forces his opponents to do to account for him on both ends of the floor, and that mostly doesn't show up in the box score.

Originally posted by dobophile:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by dobophile:
My view: a basketball player's actual value lies in what he forces his opponents to do to account for him on both ends of the floor, and that mostly doesn't show up in the box score.

I've wasted hours of my life and thousands of posts trying to effectively communicate that point, and never have. I hate you.

Waiting for you to own me in a Pippen debate . . .

Haha. Nah, we've had the debate before. Although I think it's interesting that you have your perspective above, but think Pippen was overrated. Pippen dominated opposing wings defensively, and was an incredibly difficult matchup on the other end because of his ball handling ability. He was essentially their PG, so it forced opposing SFs to be put in unusual positions defensively.

He was the catalyst behind that post-Jordan team that won 55 games with Pete Myers replacing MJ. I think that he would have won a title if he had his own team and a good supporting cast. He took the ball handling and wing defensive responsibilities away from Jordan, which helped him focus on being a dominant scorer. I think his presence had a ripple effect that was huge.

Originally posted by dobophile:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by dobophile:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by dobophile:
My view: a basketball player's actual value lies in what he forces his opponents to do to account for him on both ends of the floor, and that mostly doesn't show up in the box score.

I've wasted hours of my life and thousands of posts trying to effectively communicate that point, and never have. I hate you.

Waiting for you to own me in a Pippen debate . . .

Haha. Nah, we've had the debate before. Although I think it's interesting that you have your perspective above, but think Pippen was overrated. Pippen dominated opposing wings defensively, and was an incredibly difficult matchup on the other end because of his ball handling ability. He was essentially their PG, so it forced opposing SFs to be put in unusual positions defensively.

He was the catalyst behind that post-Jordan team that won 55 games with Pete Myers replacing MJ. I think that he would have won a title if he had his own team and a good supporting cast. He took the ball handling and wing defensive responsibilities away from Jordan, which helped him focus on being a dominant scorer. I think his presence had a ripple effect that was huge.

I agree with all that, except I'm unsure of the bolded. Like I said, Pippen is great and deserving of this honor. I think his greatness should be recognized, and his hugely important role on those Bulls teams should put Jordan into perspective. Jordan was not a God.

Yeah, I'm not 100% on that either, but that's my inclination.

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by dobophile:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by dobophile:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by dobophile:
My view: a basketball player's actual value lies in what he forces his opponents to do to account for him on both ends of the floor, and that mostly doesn't show up in the box score.

I've wasted hours of my life and thousands of posts trying to effectively communicate that point, and never have. I hate you.

Waiting for you to own me in a Pippen debate . . .

Haha. Nah, we've had the debate before. Although I think it's interesting that you have your perspective above, but think Pippen was overrated. Pippen dominated opposing wings defensively, and was an incredibly difficult matchup on the other end because of his ball handling ability. He was essentially their PG, so it forced opposing SFs to be put in unusual positions defensively.

He was the catalyst behind that post-Jordan team that won 55 games with Pete Myers replacing MJ. I think that he would have won a title if he had his own team and a good supporting cast. He took the ball handling and wing defensive responsibilities away from Jordan, which helped him focus on being a dominant scorer. I think his presence had a ripple effect that was huge.

I agree with all that, except I'm unsure of the bolded. Like I said, Pippen is great and deserving of this honor. I think his greatness should be recognized, and his hugely important role on those Bulls teams should put Jordan into perspective. Jordan was not a God.

Yeah, I'm not 100% on that either, but that's my inclination.

Hypothetical - build a realistic team around Pippen that you think could have beaten the 94 Rockets

Originally posted by TheSixthRing:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by dobophile:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by dobophile:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by dobophile:
My view: a basketball player's actual value lies in what he forces his opponents to do to account for him on both ends of the floor, and that mostly doesn't show up in the box score.

I've wasted hours of my life and thousands of posts trying to effectively communicate that point, and never have. I hate you.

Waiting for you to own me in a Pippen debate . . .

Haha. Nah, we've had the debate before. Although I think it's interesting that you have your perspective above, but think Pippen was overrated. Pippen dominated opposing wings defensively, and was an incredibly difficult matchup on the other end because of his ball handling ability. He was essentially their PG, so it forced opposing SFs to be put in unusual positions defensively.

He was the catalyst behind that post-Jordan team that won 55 games with Pete Myers replacing MJ. I think that he would have won a title if he had his own team and a good supporting cast. He took the ball handling and wing defensive responsibilities away from Jordan, which helped him focus on being a dominant scorer. I think his presence had a ripple effect that was huge.

I agree with all that, except I'm unsure of the bolded. Like I said, Pippen is great and deserving of this honor. I think his greatness should be recognized, and his hugely important role on those Bulls teams should put Jordan into perspective. Jordan was not a God.

Yeah, I'm not 100% on that either, but that's my inclination.

Hypothetical - build a realistic team around Pippen that you think could have beaten the 94 Rockets

Honestly, I think the same team plus an average starting SG could have. As it were, they were a terrible call by Hue Hollins away from likely getting into the Finals. Pete Myers wasn't even a rotational player at any other point in his career.

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by TheSixthRing:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by dobophile:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by dobophile:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by dobophile:
My view: a basketball player's actual value lies in what he forces his opponents to do to account for him on both ends of the floor, and that mostly doesn't show up in the box score.

I've wasted hours of my life and thousands of posts trying to effectively communicate that point, and never have. I hate you.

Waiting for you to own me in a Pippen debate . . .

Haha. Nah, we've had the debate before. Although I think it's interesting that you have your perspective above, but think Pippen was overrated. Pippen dominated opposing wings defensively, and was an incredibly difficult matchup on the other end because of his ball handling ability. He was essentially their PG, so it forced opposing SFs to be put in unusual positions defensively.

He was the catalyst behind that post-Jordan team that won 55 games with Pete Myers replacing MJ. I think that he would have won a title if he had his own team and a good supporting cast. He took the ball handling and wing defensive responsibilities away from Jordan, which helped him focus on being a dominant scorer. I think his presence had a ripple effect that was huge.

I agree with all that, except I'm unsure of the bolded. Like I said, Pippen is great and deserving of this honor. I think his greatness should be recognized, and his hugely important role on those Bulls teams should put Jordan into perspective. Jordan was not a God.

Yeah, I'm not 100% on that either, but that's my inclination.

Hypothetical - build a realistic team around Pippen that you think could have beaten the 94 Rockets

Honestly, I think the same team plus an average starting SG could have. As it were, they were a terrible call by Hue Hollins away from likely getting into the Finals. Pete Myers wasn't even a rotational player at any other point in his career.

Yeah they would have made the Finals for sure. I remember thinking that the Bulls probably would have won it all had they made it. Awful call regardless.....

[ Edited by hklar17 on Apr 7, 2010 at 17:48:27 ]

Scottie Pippen was for the Chicago Bulls what John Taylor was for the San Francisco 49ers. underrated and underappreciated. and these 2 men are my favorites of my beloved teams.

Originally posted by Negrodamus:
Scottie Pippen was for the Chicago Bulls what John Taylor was for the San Francisco 49ers. underrated and underappreciated. and these 2 men are my favorites of my beloved teams.

He was better than that. John Taylor was a good player, but Scottie Pippen is one of the 25 greatest basketball players of all time.

Originally posted by crzy:

Originally posted by Negrodamus:
Scottie Pippen was for the Chicago Bulls what John Taylor was for the San Francisco 49ers. underrated and underappreciated. and these 2 men are my favorites of my beloved teams.

He was better than that. John Taylor was a good player, but Scottie Pippen is one of the 25 greatest basketball players of all time.

I agree that he meant more to the Bulls than Taylor did to the 49ers, but Im not so sure Id put him as top 25. As a sidekick, he was probably the best. As a solo act, he didnt really live up to expectations. Of course, his age and supporting cast may have been a factor in all this, but I still cant forget how his Blazers just caved in that 4th quarter against the Lakers in the 2000 playoffs.

Id keep him in my top 50........top 25...........meh.

That's not fair. Pippen was 35 in 2000.

Just the fact that the Blazers almost beat the Lakers says something to me.