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The myth of Rice's "4.7" 40 time
Apr 15, 2018 at 7:42 PM
- ExtraCheese
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- Posts: 50
Jerry had that breakaway running like a dog is chasing you speed.
Apr 15, 2018 at 7:47 PM
- darockzillahitman
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- Posts: 270
Originally posted by jrouter4949:
Originally posted by darockzillahitman:
Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
I'm not sure where it came from, but there is nothing to suggest in college or the pros that Rice was that slow. Perhaps running in shorts he was. Or maybe he wasn't that fast coming out of high school. Regardless of what the situation was, the film didn't lie on Rice's game speed which is the most important speed.
There's no such thing as "game speed." This is a myth people come up with to explain things they don't understand, such as seeing Rice run away from people who were slower than him and believing in nonsense such as, "Jerry Rice ran a 4.7 40."
what s**t have you been smoking,ask darrel green and prime time just how fast jr was ON THE FIELD.
What do you mean, "ask them?" What would Deion know about Jerry Rice's speed when he spent 95% of his time covering John Taylor on the other side? Sanders virtually never moved from his RCB position, which matched up with the split end (Taylor).
Rice only beat Deion for two significant catches in his career, and Deion was absolutely draped all over him on both of them. One was a deep ball vs. the Falcons in 1993, and the other was a medium range TD vs. the Falcons in 1989. Again, you can't have better coverage than Deion had on those two plays...the throw had to be absolutely perfect.
Rice also never out-ran Darrell Green in his career. He did the same thing Michael Irvin did to Green: screened him from the ball with his height advantage. Green was weak against bigger receivers, despite his great leaping ability.
[ Edited by darockzillahitman on Apr 15, 2018 at 7:47 PM ]
Apr 15, 2018 at 8:15 PM
- VaBeachNiner
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- Posts: 55,930
Great example on Jerry using that game speed.
Apr 15, 2018 at 9:03 PM
- darockzillahitman
- Member
- Posts: 270
Originally posted by VaBeachNiner:
Great example on Jerry using that game speed.
Nope, he was just using his speed, period. There's no such thing as "game speed." The fastest players in pads are always the fastest players without pads, in the same order. I used to coach youth football and saw this again and again whenever we ran sprint contests.
Rice doesn't out-run anyone whom he wouldn't beat in a regular race.
All of the most explosive players in NFL history could back it up on the track. Flipper Anderson beat Deion Sanders deep in the 1994 49ers/Rams SNF matchup. Guess who also beat him in the 100 yard dash in the superstars competition in 1990: http://www.thesuperstars.org/comp/90pr1.html
Apr 16, 2018 at 7:18 AM
- SoCold
- Hall of Dumb
- Posts: 127,660
Originally posted by darockzillahitman:
This laughable "time" people throw around about Rice came from internet make-believe land. Not only that, but it's rather recent. Before the mid-2000s or so, it didn't even appear on the internet. People would instead make up something like "4.6" instead.
Reality: There was no official timing at the combine back then, as everything was hand timed. What a player ran would depend on which scout you asked. Gil Brandt (Cowboys front office executive at the time) had him at 4.4. Another scout I remember seeing interviewed for a piece said he had him at 4.55.
What's laughable is that people actually think a division 1-AA wide receiver would have gone 16th overall with a 4.7; especially considering that the actual knock on Rice coming out, aside from level of competition, was that he played in a gimmick offense (wide open passing game). The late 49ers scouting director at the time, Tony Razzano, was not a fan of his, and cited his struggles when he did face actual competition (such as vs. Isaac Holt, who was a 2nd round pick corner) as being evidence that he wouldn't be able to beat coverage at the next level.
This is one of many laughable NFL myths that needs to go into the dumpster.
Jerry was drafted #1 overall in the 1985 USFL draft by the Birmingham Stallions. I believe the HC at the time went on record saying he ran a 4.4 40.
Gil was the one that said the Cowboys timed Jerry 9 times in the 40 and he was never under a 4.55.
I believe Jerry only ran the 40 at his pro day. It was very common to have different times from different coaches.
IMO as many times as he ran it he prob ran 4.54, 4.55, 4.56, 4.57, 5.58, 5.59.
Then numbers get lost in translation and you get people saying he ran 4.4 and 4.7.
He was a 4.5 ish guy. He never trained or learned how to run a great 40. I'm sure if he spent time with a track coach like guys do today he could have ran in the 4.4s.
None of that matters because he had unmatched work ethic and ran every route 100%. So on the field he looked like a 4.4 guy.
Apr 16, 2018 at 7:26 AM
- Cjez
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Apr 16, 2018 at 8:19 AM
- JTsBiggestFan
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Originally posted by SoCold:
Jerry was drafted #1 overall in the 1985 USFL draft by the Birmingham Stallions. I believe the HC at the time went on record saying he ran a 4.4 40.
Gil was the one that said the Cowboys timed Jerry 9 times in the 40 and he was never under a 4.55.
I believe Jerry only ran the 40 at his pro day. It was very common to have different times from different coaches.
IMO as many times as he ran it he prob ran 4.54, 4.55, 4.56, 4.57, 5.58, 5.59.
Then numbers get lost in translation and you get people saying he ran 4.4 and 4.7.
He was a 4.5 ish guy. He never trained or learned how to run a great 40. I'm sure if he spent time with a track coach like guys do today he could have ran in the 4.4s.
None of that matters because he had unmatched work ethic and ran every route 100%. So on the field he looked like a 4.4 guy.
Don't forget one very critical thing guys:
Running a great 40 requires great technique ALONG with great speed.
I believe the biggest part in running a fast 40 for most people is simply the launch -- it's the hardest part to train.
A great launch could be worth a tenth, possibly two in a worst case scenario.
There are places to go to train specifically for running the 40 and it feels like everything technical about things not specifically about running stride speed....
40speed.com
So what I'm driving it is once Jerry got moving he would have likely equalized or surpassed better timed 40 athletes that relied more on technique than pure speed.
And from what I've read about Usain Bolt, his elite speed is more about not losing speed in the last half of the 100 meters more than a purely elite stride speed (although I believe his is really good obviously).
One last thing:
Jerry mentioned running the hills for conditioning in the 4th quarter. I can certainly relate to conditioning in my older age, LOL.....
Apr 16, 2018 at 8:22 AM
- JTsBiggestFan
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Originally posted by darockzillahitman:
What do you mean, "ask them?" What would Deion know about Jerry Rice's speed when he spent 95% of his time covering John Taylor on the other side? Sanders virtually never moved from his RCB position, which matched up with the split end (Taylor).
Rice only beat Deion for two significant catches in his career, and Deion was absolutely draped all over him on both of them. One was a deep ball vs. the Falcons in 1993, and the other was a medium range TD vs. the Falcons in 1989. Again, you can't have better coverage than Deion had on those two plays...the throw had to be absolutely perfect.
Rice also never out-ran Darrell Green in his career. He did the same thing Michael Irvin did to Green: screened him from the ball with his height advantage. Green was weak against bigger receivers, despite his great leaping ability.
Love these recalled stories!! This is what I'm talking about :)
I saw a clip of John Taylor burning Deion for a ~15 yard fade route TD against the Falcons in Fulton County stadium 1991.....on the left/RCB side.
Thrown by STEVEN BONO.
Apr 16, 2018 at 8:27 AM
- Joecool
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The 40-yard times and all other times should all be timed in full gear.
Or there should be a device that captures the speed of a player from the film.
Or there should be a device that captures the speed of a player from the film.
Apr 16, 2018 at 8:29 AM
- SoCold
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Originally posted by JTsBiggestFan:
Originally posted by darockzillahitman:
What do you mean, "ask them?" What would Deion know about Jerry Rice's speed when he spent 95% of his time covering John Taylor on the other side? Sanders virtually never moved from his RCB position, which matched up with the split end (Taylor).
Rice only beat Deion for two significant catches in his career, and Deion was absolutely draped all over him on both of them. One was a deep ball vs. the Falcons in 1993, and the other was a medium range TD vs. the Falcons in 1989. Again, you can't have better coverage than Deion had on those two plays...the throw had to be absolutely perfect.
Rice also never out-ran Darrell Green in his career. He did the same thing Michael Irvin did to Green: screened him from the ball with his height advantage. Green was weak against bigger receivers, despite his great leaping ability.
Love these recalled stories!! This is what I'm talking about :)
I saw a clip of John Taylor burning Deion for a ~15 yard fade route TD against the Falcons in Fulton County stadium 1991.....on the left/RCB side.
Thrown by STEVEN BONO.
93 at the Silverdome. s**t was so loud you couldn't hear the person screaming next to you. 49ers run the ball to start the game then take a sack. 3rd and long Young hits Taylor on a slant over the middle and he took it to the house for 60+. Could hear a pin drop in that dome lol. Jerry added an 80 yard amazing TD in that game. 49ers won 55-17.
Apr 16, 2018 at 8:30 AM
- SoCold
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Originally posted by Joecool:
The 40-yard times and all other times should all be timed in full gear.
Or there should be a device that captures the speed of a player from the film.
nfl already uses chips in shoulder pads to see how fast players are running
Apr 16, 2018 at 8:37 AM
- Niners99
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- Posts: 43,168
His 40 time is 100% accurate, he just crab walked it, which makes it legendary.
Apr 16, 2018 at 8:42 AM
- Cisco0623
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I am old enough to know what was spoken about while Jerry was playing. It is well known he was considered slow at the combine. Walsh had him rated 2 or 3 as someone stated earlier, but knew he liked him regardless. Worked out for Jerry and Walsh anyway. Walsh used to say he could find another Montana, meaning a qb who could lead a team to 4 SB's, but felt it would much harder to find another JR.
Deion used to laugh at people calling Jerry slow. I've read and heard everything from 4.7 to 4.3 when Sunday arrived lol. His technique was immaculate and got him open. Antonio Brown's route running reminds me of Rice tbh. Its not about speed if you know how and when to break a route, and when you have a hall of fame qb understanding that as well.
Deion used to laugh at people calling Jerry slow. I've read and heard everything from 4.7 to 4.3 when Sunday arrived lol. His technique was immaculate and got him open. Antonio Brown's route running reminds me of Rice tbh. Its not about speed if you know how and when to break a route, and when you have a hall of fame qb understanding that as well.
Apr 16, 2018 at 8:57 AM
- Sanfran_chrisco
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Originally posted by Cisco0623:
I am old enough to know what was spoken about while Jerry was playing. It is well known he was considered slow at the combine. Walsh had him rated 2 or 3 as someone stated earlier, but knew he liked him regardless. Worked out for Jerry and Walsh anyway. Walsh used to say he could find another Montana, meaning a qb who could lead a team to 4 SB's, but felt it would much harder to find another JR.
Deion used to laugh at people calling Jerry slow. I've read and heard everything from 4.7 to 4.3 when Sunday arrived lol. His technique was immaculate and got him open. Antonio Brown's route running reminds me of Rice tbh. Its not about speed if you know how and when to break a route, and when you have a hall of fame qb understanding that as well.
Brown is fast though. however, it doesn't take away from your solid points about breaking in and out of routes.
Apr 16, 2018 at 9:04 AM
- socalniner
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Jerry was running so fast in the playoffs against the Giants, the ball just pops out without him being touched. Never seen that again. I think we ended up losing that game