How to build around a franchise QB

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Step 1. Look at what the Colts did with Andrew Luck.

Step 2. Look at what the Saints and Packers did on defense with Brees and Rodgers for most of their careers.

Step 3. Don't do that.

I'm not in the camp that believes that you NEED a legit #1 WR. I think a QB like Garoppolo with some quality targets can pick a defense apart given the time.

What he really does need:

A. Consistent pass blocking

B. A solid run game

C. Aggressive defense that can force turnovers and increase scoring opportunities.

I think if it comes down to talent allocation then you need some legit stud players on defense while getting by with lesser, more easily replaceable players on offense outside of a few key linemen.

This is the plane. A keeps our QB healthy. B keeps the pressure off of him in that we can lean on our run game and defenses cannot be totally sold out to stop the pass. C gets the ball in our QB's hands as much as possible. My thought is that once we get our O-line together and add another receiver to the mix to ultimately replace Pierre Garcon, just keep drafting younger, fast defensive players yearly to keep the formula going. Eventually we will get to a point where our players know our scheme and we can just replace players as rookie deals expire, outside of those core players. This is how you can have sustained success in this league for 5 + years.

It's oline then defense for me. As long as we have Jimmy we have a chance, therefore protect him.

I'm just repeating the points made by Phoenix and others but they need hammered home.

Oline then defense.

Originally posted by billbird2111:

I would say the most important piece to add on defense is that of an edge rusher -- not a DB. Why? Because good edge rushers can cover up for lousy DB play. On offense? The old commercials for Wendy's Hamburger chain put it best: WHERE'S THE BEEF? It's all about beefy bodies on the offensive line.

On defense you can generally be great on the front end or great on the back end, really hard to afford both as we are now seeing with Seattle.



I'm more in favor of having a high quality DL and linebackers and on the back end having a very good free safety with every other position being interchangeable.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

I think you need to stay balanced, however once the glaring holes have been filled, I'd like to see us build a top defence as I believe Kyle can scheme up and Jimmy execute a lot of yards and points without top talent.

I agree wit this. Staying balanced on both sides of the ball is key here.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by Heroism:
Mike Lombardi was 95.7 a few months ago, and a similar conversation came up. He worked under Bill Walsh as scout 1984-1987 and said that Walsh believed that the offensive skill positions should be invested in only after the OL and defense were built.

Do that.

I agree with this. In the early days the 49ers had a great OL and defense. Jerry Rice didnt come along until they'd already won two SBs.

Protect the QB. Protect the lead. Win football games.

Roger Craig came later too. Not as late as Rice, but he wasn't around for the 1981 Super Bowl season. It's too bad that Wendell Tyler doesn't get the respect he so richly deserves. He was a beast of an RB during that 1984 season. But Roger Craig gets all the love for what he did in the Super Bowl against Miami.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Step 1. Look at what the Colts did with Andrew Luck.

Step 2. Look at what the Saints and Packers did on defense with Brees and Rodgers for most of their careers.

Step 3. Don't do that.

I'm not in the camp that believes that you NEED a legit #1 WR. I think a QB like Garoppolo with some quality targets can pick a defense apart given the time.

What he really does need:

A. Consistent pass blocking

B. A solid run game

C. Aggressive defense that can force turnovers and increase scoring opportunities.

I think if it comes down to talent allocation then you need some legit stud players on defense while getting by with lesser, more easily replaceable players on offense outside of a few key linemen.

Couldn't agree more.

Originally posted by Willisfn4life:

With that in mind, I'm saying defense. Let the Packers be a model for what happens to a team when they have a great quarterback but an average or less defense. Their good enough to compete but rarely win championships.

Only twice has Green Bay had a top ten defense under Aaron Rodgers' reign. The first was 2009 when they lost that wild playoff game with Arizona where the defense didn't show up to play and gave up over 50 points and the next was 2010 when they won the super bowl.

Green Bay has effectively wasted the career of one of the greatest QBs of all time through their continued inability to field a consistently quality defense.


When you have a weak defense, even the Alex Smith's of the world will light you up.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
I agree with this. In the early days the 49ers had a great OL and defense. Jerry Rice didnt come along until they'd already won two SBs.

Protect the QB. Protect the lead. Win football games.

To nobody's surprise, Patriots also follow this model to this day. Belichick has drafted a whopping three offensive skill positions(2 TEs and 1 RB) in the first round over his 17 years with the Patriots. In fact, they haven't used a first-round pick on an O skill player in over a decade.

i don't think it changes. you build around brady the same as you build around Bortles.

1. Offensive line - BALANCED - pass pro and effectively setting up the ground game.
if you have holes, you can always find someone to run through them
if the qb has time, wr's can get open

2. front 7 of def
don't allow holes
don't give time

i dont think you NEED an elite #1 wr. you can be just as dangerous with depth of talent.

a pass game of Garcon, goodwin, kittle, trent taylor and Jerick Mckinnon is tough to slow down, a burner outside, physical talented route runner in garcon, quick cutting slot, uber atheltic tight end and uber athletic rb.

how do you cover? do you really have lb's that can cover both kittle and McKinnon? or do you have to drop a safety? if you drop a safety which wr's do you single? get 5 legit options (even if none are elite) combined with a smart qb and a good line and it's trouble

Originally posted by Heroism:

To nobody's surprise, Patriots also follow this model to this day. Belichick has drafted a whopping three offensive skill positions(2 TEs and 1 RB) in the first round over his 17 years with the Patriots. In fact, they haven't used a first-round pick on an O skill player in over a decade.

When I think of the personnel of the Patriots over the past 16 years, the following are largely the constants.


Tom Brady. Excellent OL play. Aggressive defense.


Mostly, smart players. The Patriots have put a premium on drafting high football IQ players at all positions.

Well based on the sample size we've see. with Jimmy, believe it or not the offense is performing on par with what our Dynasty day offense did (410 ypg, 29 ppg). With that in mind, I say build a defense. Now that goes against all that I love about football(anyone that's paid attention to me, knows I'm a WCO and offense honk).....but 410 yards and 29 points per game will always get you in the top 5. If you pair that with a top 5 type defense you end up being a 14-2 type juggernaut.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
When I think of the personnel of the Patriots over the past 16 years, the following are largely the constants.

Tom Brady. Excellent OL play. Aggressive defense.

Mostly, smart players. The Patriots have put a premium on drafting high football IQ players at all positions.

Great offensive system and a beast TE who is basically un-coverable doesn't hurt either.

DE, OL, CB & a big WR/TE 6'6 or taller

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by Heroism:

To nobody's surprise, Patriots also follow this model to this day. Belichick has drafted a whopping three offensive skill positions(2 TEs and 1 RB) in the first round over his 17 years with the Patriots. In fact, they haven't used a first-round pick on an O skill player in over a decade.

When I think of the personnel of the Patriots over the past 16 years, the following are largely the constants.


Tom Brady. Excellent OL play. Aggressive defense.


Mostly, smart players. The Patriots have put a premium on drafting high football IQ players at all positions.

Getting a great offensive mind as a playcaller let's you steal offensive production. Even pre-Jimmy, we were at that 320 ypg type production. To put that in perspective, that dwarfs the Kelly and Tomsula years and is on par give or take 5-10 yards with the harb era (except for the 2012 season). We witnessed what happens when a top10 type QB is entered into the equation.

That's why you load up on defense and that that offense some turnovers.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by D0PEMAN:
Step 1, copy the Patriots.

Makes sense. Robert Kraft studied the crap out of the 49ers, even following them around the country for a few months and Bill Walsh was a huge influence on Belichick. Pete Carroll also applied the principles he learned during his time with the 49ers in Seattle.

Seems everyone has been applying the '49ers Way' except for the 49ers.

It feels like it's all coming back to us now though with this new regime.